Tom DeLay indicted by county Grand Jury.

[KaBar2]

Well, they had to scratch through a ton of paperwork, but the Democrats finally figured out a way to unseat Tom DeLay from the leadership of the Republican majority in the House of Representatives, at least temporarily. His crime? That he "conspired" with members of the Texans for a Republican Majority Political Action Committee to make $190,000 worth of campaign contributions to Texas candidates after the 60-day cut-off before an election. Oh goodness gracious! The Republic is in peril! Like the Democrats never made campaign contributions that smelled a little ripe.

LAME ASS WHINERS. The Democrats rammed their liberal shit down our throats for FORTY YEARS, but whine like little babies when the Republicans are in the catbird seat. We should check the list of Travis County grand jurors to make sure none of them reside in a Travis County cemetary, that's the usual Democratic trick down here with "registered voters." (Dead Texans seem to always vote Democratic.)

Oh, well. National politics is hardball. DeLay is a big boy. "Let the games begin."

[!@#$%]

hahahahaaa suck it man, now you turn into the whiner?

i had to deal with YEARS of WHITEWATER AND LEWINSKY investigations
after ollie north gets away with Iran Contra?
FORTY years?
i guess you forgot about Bush 1, Bush 2, and Reagan?

you are a joke!! trying to say they are whining hahahaaa!!





House Majority leader Tom DeLay is not a physically imposing man. "Five-foot-seven if he's wearing high heels," in the words of Fort Bend County sheriff Milton Wright, whom DeLay once spent $70,000 to defeat in an election because the sheriff had hired a woman whose husband had sued DeLay. Yet in the decade since Republicans took control of the U.S. House of Representatives, the former exterminator from suburban Houston has achieved the political stature of the historical giants in Statuary Hall outside his Capitol office. He did it on his own, consolidating his political power and using it with a remarkable sense of purpose.

DeLay's rapid ascent has been the result of more than hard work and a keen understanding of politics. He became majority whip and then majority leader by raising massive sums of money -- a total of $12.6 million between 2000 and 2002 alone -- and by strategically spending it on Republican candidates, in effect buying the loyalty of his colleagues. He has domesticated K Street, demanding loyalty and contributions from lobbyists in return for favorable treatment. And all along the way, he has strained, reinterpreted, and sometimes simply side-stepped ethics regulations in Washington and even in his home state of Texas, which has some of the nation's loosest campaign finance laws.

Now, three separate sets of state and federal investigators are looking into whether DeLay and his associates may have finally crossed the line.

Two civil suits filed in Austin allege that DeLay's Texas political action committee raised hundreds of thousands of dollars through illegal means. A parallel criminal investigation by Austin's district attorney, Ronnie Earle, has already led to the indictment of DeLay's top Texas fundraisers -- and Earle is not ruling out the possibility that DeLay himself could be a target of the investigation. And the Senate Indian Affairs Committee has subpoenaed records on two DeLay associates who used their access to "the Leader" to secure $45 million in lobbying and consulting fees from four Indian tribes. A federal grand jury in Washington, D.C., is also investigating those fees.

By itself, none of the inquiries is an immediate threat to DeLay's power as majority leader. But together, they threaten to expose -- and perhaps even unravel -- the machine he has been building since first getting elected to Congress in 1984.

....
"I am the federal government!" DeLay told a restaurant manager last year, according to the Washington Post, when he was asked to put out his cigar to comply with federal law. It's easy to see why he might think so.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2004/11/10_403.html


..so kabar, looks like it isn't only one partisan democrat.

i'd tell you to read and respond, but i know you only pay attention to arguments you think you can win.

[!@#$%]

All in all, argues Earle, the evidence suggests "an illegal movement to basically steal an election by using illegal secret corporate donations to political campaigns."

Earle is referring to a watershed moment in Texas politics -- the 2002 election in which the state House of Representatives, after a carefully targeted campaign devised by DeLay and his associates, swung to the GOP. The new majority immediately proceeded to draw a new congressional district map designed to give DeLay half a dozen more Republican seats in Congress................


Some of the issues Earle is investigating were first made public by the watchdog group Texans for Public Justice, which noticed an interesting discrepancy between the group's federal and state filings: Roughly $600,000 of the $1.4 million TRMPAC spent in its campaign to change the majority in the Texas House had been reported to the IRS, but not to the state's ethics commission. As it happened, the federal records showed that about $600,000 of the group's money had come from corporate contributions, clearly identified as such by the PAC's fundraisers. Texas law allows PACs to use corporate money for administrative purposes -- that is, expenses that would be incurred by any business, such as office space, phone bills, and routine mailings. But phone banks to promote candidates and similar campaign expenses don't qualify.

[seeking]

meanwhile dead floridians vote republican. weird.

capone, after murdering (or ordering the murders of) hunds of people, was finally convicted of tax evasion. should they have not bothered, because they couldn't get him on first degree murder?

sorry kabar, but this is fucking comical. delay is a piece of shit, flat out. and before you get on some high horse, you should remember that your republicans invented the petty witch hunt and changed politics forever during the cclinton years. my only complaint is that the democrats are still being too noble. they need more smear campains, like the one republicans used against their own presidential nominee (mccain).
reap what you sew, homie.

[KaBar2]

Well, presumably the Travis County District Attorney knows how this game is played. Want to wager on whether or not he will be facing a rather well-financed Republican opponent in the next election for District Attorney? Foolish guy, to indict DeLay on something so petty. Unless, of course, DeLay's Republican colleagues are ready to see him go down the road. No question about it, Tom DeLay is a rather arrogant politician. He's also an extremely powerful one, with very powerful friends, both in the state and national political arena, as well as the business world. I hope our stalwart D.A. has an umbrella, because it is "fixin' to rain."

[!@#$%]

he redrew the fucking districts dude
why would i bet on a game that is clearly FIXED?


millions of dollars in illegal campaign funds is petty huh?

i'd hate to hear your opinions on rewarding businesses owned by politicians with multimillion dollar no-bid contracts, tax breaks, and lax environmental laws.



if you want something 'petty' to whine about,

Top Senate Republican facing scrutiny of stock divestiture
He sold his shares in family's business, then price dropped
Jeffrey H. Birnbaum, R. Jeffrey Smith, Washington Post

Saturday, September 24, 2005

Washington -- Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist is facing questions from the Justice Department and the Securities and Exchange Commission about his sale of stock in his family's hospital company one month before its price fell sharply.



you need to get a perspective on the big picture


i almost forgot:

:crying: mfor all those poor, persecuted republicans.
when will they catch a break?

[SF1]

AAAAHHHHaaaahhhaaahhaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Leave it to kabar to bitch about a filthy corrupt republican finally getting what he had coming.

Fuck Tom Delay that filthy douchebag!


:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

[John Birch]

complaining about dead deomocrats voting? they redistricted Texas just so they could dis-enfranchise black voters, who for some strange reason, have voted democrat since the 1960s...

[isor357]

They should lock that guy up just on principal and televise the feed. Put him in a federal prison in general population & let the sodomites have at. I would certainly enjoy watching some wealthy texas republican get his ass kicked all over the yard

[KING BLING]

Originally posted by KaBar2@Sep 28 2005, 10:09 AM
Foolish guy, to indict DeLay on something so petty.***
Quoted post



Wait, money laundering, conspiracy, and violating campaign laws is "petty"? Should he have had to run into the house or reps blasting people to get busted for a real crime?

Frist is pulling a Martha Stewart, Bush was made president with major help from Enron, Cheyney and Haliburton rebuilding Iraq together, Bolton has ties to the Plame case as does Rove of course, Rush is a drug addict, Rupert Murdoch is with like a 20 year old, O'Reilley is harrasing employees and paying them hush money...

I love the moral high ground taken by your republican gangster party -the corporate welfare, the defrauded stock holders, the secret meetings of CEOs to form public policy, the good old boy approach to law and contracts, the intoxication of power, the blasphamy of using God as a reason to enslave the population...

Hopefully DeLay will exercise his 2nd ammendment rights and shoot himself...

[SF1]

^ :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: ^
Yeah... what King Bling said.

[Dawood]

They'll all be indicted one day

[shai hulud]

http://warnabrotha.ytmnd.com/

Tom DeLay should talk to this dude.

[dumy]

thank you symbols, seeking, king bling, john birch and sf1..you have put a smile on my face today..and made me feel a lot better about the future..

[imported_grim540]

and before somebody brings up some left wing conspiracy to bring down the Republican party, i.e... Frist, Rove, Delay, Rush, O'Rielly, and about half of anyone who has anything to do with the Bush administration. Frist in particular, who got the GOP behind him to get Trent Lott out of the top position in the Senate.

Sounds like somebody wanted somebodys job.....

politics as usual

[POIESIS]

damn, ann coulter was on larry king tonite spewing similar garbage.
not the type of company i'd keep, but whatever pops your zits......

[POIESIS]

oh and i heard somewhere that the republicans spent more investigating
clinton's diddling habits than they did 'investigating' 9/11....baloney?

[KaBar2]

Originally posted by POIESIS@Sep 29 2005, 04:31 AM
oh and i heard somewhere that the republicans spent more investigating
clinton's diddling habits than they did 'investigating' 9/11....baloney?
Quoted post



Nope, probably true. The Dems are just sore losers, they pull the same sort of political shenanigans every day, and sometimes they get caught and indicted. Austin must be like one of the last Democratic strongholds in Texas. Pretty much the rest of the state except for the border counties (notoriously corrupt from drug smuggling, illegal aliens, etc.) is Republican now. The Democrats in South Texas are well known for graft, corruption and political intrigue. These are all counties that are about 90% Mexican-American, and the Democratic political machine down there is as notorious as the Daly machine in Chicago. Texas could concieveably become Democratic once again, as the demographics shift. The state is now officially more than 50% Latino. Latinos vote Democratic, for the most part (those that can vote--a great percentage of Texas' Latinos are illegal aliens, who cannot vote, and aren't supposed to even be here.) I look to see the Democrats trying to "amnesty" millions of illegals and authorize them to vote in the next few years. There is a political struggle going on in all the southwestern border states for the allegiance of the Latino vote. The Republicans embody the conservative, family, anti-abortion values of many Latino voters, but the Democrats support the "free immigration," welfare-state, give-them-all-the-entitlements-you-can-think-of ideas of the Left.

There are plenty of Latinos in Texas that vote Republican. They have arrived, they are working and prospering, and some of them have quickly Americanized to the extent that they wish to "close the door" on further immigration (except for their extended families, of course.)

DeLay has both allies and opponents within the Texas Republican Party. I know one of his allies, Congressman John Culberson, slightly. We both spent part of our childhood and adolescence in West University, a suburb of Houston not too far from the Rice University campus. I knew Culberson's older siblings very well, we lived a few blocks apart, and went to the same high school.

I never met DeLay, although in the early part of his political career he ran for smaller, local offices in the southwest Houston/ Sugar Land area. He was an insect exterminator before he went into politics.

[casekonly]

wtf? bush ahs passed up a ton of bills to put a stop to illegal immigrants crossing the borders. neither the dems or republinazi's gives a fuck....in fact, didn't bush want to issue drivers licenses so that would allow illegals to vote? wtf?

you should get your head out of your ass. i respect your views on alot of things, but damn.

[imported_grim540]

Originally posted by casekonly@Sep 29 2005, 11:34 AM
wtf? bush ahs passed up a ton of bills to put a stop to illegal immigrants crossing the borders. neither the dems or republinazi's gives a fuck....in fact, didn't bush want to issue drivers licenses so that would allow illegals to vote? wtf?

you should get your head out of your ass. i respect your views on alot of things, but damn.
Quoted post



i dont believe it was Bush, with the Driver's Licenses it was Scwartzenager(sp?) in Californina, or the governer he replaced. Bush was responsible for the guest worker program. witch is, I think a form of amensty

[casekonly]

are you sure?

[Poop Man Bob]

KaBar,

11 of the 15 politicians Earle has prosecuted as District Attorney have been Democrats. Why? Because the Democrats were in power for a good portion of his stint as DA, and power tends to corrupt.

It's not about R or D, it's about good guys and bad guys, cops and robbers.

This discredits your claim that Earle is simply acting as a partisan stooge.



And regardless of how much you and other conservatives would like it to be, Earle will not lose an election while in Travis County. Check the past few elections and look at the margins. Look at how Travis County voted Bush/Kerry. Sorry.
+ edit - unless he's redistricted out of office (http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2003-11-07/pols_feature7.html), which seems to be standard at this point.

[casekonly]

pmb: on imus this morning it said 12 of the 15 were dems.
he was interviewing orin hatch

[imported_grim540]

Originally posted by casekonly@Sep 29 2005, 01:02 PM
are you sure?
Quoted post

I know for a fact that there was a movement in California to issue illegals drivers liscenses, I just can't remeber with part of the government was behind it. Same goes to the guest worker program, that was all Bush's idea, which is odd because it pissed off most of his supporters.

On the national level the only thing I can think of that is similar to the Driver's license idea is some GOP congressmen that is pushing for national ID cards. (This is the same guy just introduced a bill to repeal the 22nd amendment....that one that sets a president to two terms)

[casekonly]

good job, grim. thanks. i do recall california doing something with drivers licenses...

anyhow, i thought bush played more of a roll in a national program liek that....so just illegals could vote...republican

[!@#$%]

i thought bush did come out in supoprt of driver's lisences for illegals.
but it looks like it was JEB

Published April 7, 2004

TALLAHASSEE -- One of Arnold Schwarzenegger's first decisions as California governor was to repeal a state law allowing nearly 2-million illegal immigrants to get drivers' licenses.

The move angered the state's large immigrant population, but Schwarzenegger said he would only support a law with safeguards against terrorism. Critics had designed posters showing Osama bin Laden's likeness on a license.

Now, Gov. Jeb Bush says he supports a bill in the Legislature to allow illegal immigrants and foreign nationals in Florida to drive legally -- subject to safeguards that include criminal background checks.

Bush says hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants commute daily to jobs all over the state, many lacking licenses and insurance.

"We shouldn't allow them to come into the country to begin with, but once they're here, what do you do?" Bush asked. "Do you basically say that they're lepers to society? That they don't exist? A policy that ignores them is a policy of denial."

[imported_grim540]

Originally posted by casekonly@Sep 29 2005, 02:17 PM
good job, grim. thanks. i do recall california doing something with drivers licenses...

anyhow, i thought bush played more of a roll in a national program liek that....so just illegals could vote...republican
Quoted post


quite possibly, i think that is how the guest worker program works, its not the same a say, granting amnesty, but they may soon be citizens and be allowed to vote.

I could care less about immagrants coming over here to work or vote, as long as they contribute to the country that makes it possible for them to be albe to send money back home to make life better for their families.

I used to work with a bunch of mexicans and other guys from various countries in south and central america and they made the rest of the guys in the foundry look like a bunch of lazy half asses. My only problem was that they paid no income taxes of any sort, drew 100% of their pay, and got to enjoy most of the benefits, that i do.

Now is that fair? (No it's not..... but under the fairtax that would not be an issue :haha: )


but back to the topic of hand with Rep. Delay

both sides should just stop bitching and pointing fingers at the other side, and just let this play itslef out. The Delay supporters are saying that the indictment holds no weight and is just a bunch of BS. That may well be so. So, if Delay and co. are in the right then they should have nothing to worry about, because the case will either be thrown out or he will be aqquited. Case closed...

well thats just my $0.02

[casekonly]

a bush is a bush is a bush.

[KaBar2]

The Republicans probably hate the fact that in order to stay in power, they are going to need to hold their noses and amnesty the illegals. They don't have a choice, because the future is BROWN. The flood tide of illegal aliens, their extremely high birth rate, and their affinity for bringing their relatives up here too means that the next generation of Latino-Americans will have tremendous political power.

Both Caucasians and African-Americans have a falling birth rate. The whites only have a birth rate of 1.8, which means that unless there is some drastic change, whites will cease to be a majority before 2025.
Future Republican candidates will all speak Spanish. In fact, there is an excellent chance that the southwestern states will ALL be Spanish speaking, and effectively once again an extension of Mexico.

The border counties in Texas are among the top 25 "most Mexican" counties in the U.S.--that means "counties populated by MEXICAN CITIZENS." Los Angeles, CA, is the second-largest MEXICAN city (populated by citizens of Mexico) next to Mexico City itself.

Our country is perched on the threshhold of precipitous social change, and we did this to ourselves, by allowing uncontrolled illegal immigration. I'm 54. Twenty years from now, probably, I'll be gone. Maybe thirty, at the outside. You guys, however, will still be enjoying this delightful, liberal, multi-cultural smorgasbord. Bon appetit.

[Poop Man Bob]

Originally posted by Poop Man Bob@Sep 29 2005, 01:15 PM
KaBar,

11 of the 15 politicians Earle has prosecuted as District Attorney have been Democrats. Why? Because the Democrats were in power for a good portion of his stint as DA, and power tends to corrupt.

It's not about R or D, it's about good guys and bad guys, cops and robbers.

This discredits your claim that Earle is simply acting as a partisan stooge.



And regardless of how much you and other conservatives would like it to be, Earle will not lose an election while in Travis County. Check the past few elections and look at the margins. Look at how Travis County voted Bush/Kerry. Sorry.
+ edit - unless he's redistricted out of office (http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2003-11-07/pols_feature7.html), which seems to be standard at this point.
Quoted post

[!@#$%]

kabar never responds to arguments he doesn't know how to win
or comments that refute his narrow minded viewpoints

[guerillaeye]

*More Republican Cannon Fodder curtsey of my mom and....
https://www.dccc.org/campaignforchange/images/cfclogo.jpg

Today Tom DeLay's House of Scandal took a wrecking ball as he was indicted in Texas for - what else - criminal conspiracy related to illegal corporate fundraising.

Tom DeLay, the most powerful Republican the House has ever seen, is under indictment. Senate Leader Bill Frist and White House mastermind Karl Rove are likewise mired in federal investigations.

But Tom DeLay and Bill Frist are not alone in their shady style of governing - it is a systemic problem in the Republican Party that goes far beyond these two men. Tom DeLay's hardnosed influence peddling has permeated the Republican money machine, from the top strategists and committees to the lowliest backbenchers in the Congress. This is the Party that is deciding the fate of the country we love. We cannot allow it to continue.

Nothing could have highlighted better the reasons for the DCCC's Campaign for Change. The poetic justice of DeLay being indicted on the very anniversary of the self-righteous Contract with America will go down in history as one of the most spectacular falls in American politics, and the closing chapter in the so-called "Republican Revolution."

The days of selling out the American people to big oil and the pharmaceutical industry must end. It is time for a new day, a wholesale change in the House of Representatives. America need not waste its time, resources, and treasure on this culture of corruption any longer.

The DCCC is focused on ousting Tom DeLay and his cronies. We told you about Tom DeLay's scandals and super-lobbyist Jack Abramoff, known as "Director of Travel for DeLay Inc." We launched our House of Scandal website, and we have been relentless in exposing every Member of Congress tied to DeLay. We are not going to rest.

We must put Democrats in the majority to put an end to this corruption once and for all. A strong showing at the end of the quarter will prove to the Republicans that we have the resources to hold them accountable. Make your contribution today and I will personally see to it that every dollar goes to exposing Republicans for their betrayal of America's trust:

Under House rules, Tom DeLay DOES NOT have to resign as a Member of Congress. Under the rules of the GOP conference, he ONLY has to step down from his leadership post while under indictment.

This means it is up to us -- you, me and the DCCC -- to make sure Tom DeLay does not keep his seat. We need to defeat him and his cronies in 2006.

With the indictment of DeLay, the "Republican Revolution" and their precious "Contract with America" are exposed as frauds. The whole Republican system of pay-to-play politics and lobbyist-driven legislating that DeLay put into place, benefiting the special interests at the expense of average families and our country. Until that system is dismantled and the "people's House" is returned to the people, Congress will not address the challenges and concerns facing families across our nation.

We need to bring a permanent end to DeLay's House of Scandal. We need leadership that will work for the American people and not the special interests like the oil and gas industries and the big drug and insurance companies.

We will work with you to take the Democratic message into every corner of the country, and make sure Republicans' constituents know that their representatives have been serving the interests of an indicted, entrenched influence-peddler instead of their own.

[KaBar2]

Blah, blah, blah. Partisan yammer. Plenty of Democrats have been indicted and convicted of similar crap. DeLay should know better than to do shit that is against the rules. When they get a lot of power, they start thinking that they are too powerful for anybody to dare charge them with anything.

The way that the Dems held control of the Congress for forty years is EXACTLY the same method that the Republicans used. As long as the Democrat Party had a conservative wing, the Southerners voted solidly Democratic, and they "gerrymandered" the Republicans out of existance. When the Democratic Party was taken over by minorities and socialists in the 1960's, the conservatives decamped to the Republican Party. "Oops." That was a little Democrat mistake, eh? Now the Republicans are (barely) in power and they are making the Democrats squeal. In retaliation, Ronnie Earle indicts DeLay on this petty bullshit. When it gets to a courtroom, Earle better have some very solid evidence. Of course, DeLay's attorney is going to request a change of venue, away from Austin, because Austin is the Berkeley of Texas, and DeLay probably can't get a fair trial there. He will also move to suppress everything in sight.
It will be interesting to see if he beats it or not. Mind you, I don't doubt that he may have done it, but that's not the issue. The issue is whether or not Earle can get a conviction, in Texas. No doubt in Washington D.C. or New York, or in San Francisco or any other super-liberal, socialist/communist center, they would convict him in a flash.

I bet that they try to get it moved to Dallas. Houston is DeLay's home turf, that won't fly. Austin is prejudiced against him. They'll try for Dallas, and he'll be tried in San Antonio. That's my guess.

[imported_dowmagik]

in the 80's Earle filed a misdemeanor charge against HIMSELF because he filed his taxes late. sounds like a pretty honerable guy. either way, fuck delay and the pachyderm he rode in on.

[Poop Man Bob]

Originally posted by symbols@Sep 30 2005, 10:32 AM
kabar never responds to arguments he doesn't know how to win
or comments that refute his narrow minded viewpoints
Quoted post


Twerd.

[SF1]

Kabars only defence is "the Democrats do it too!".<-- :haha: :haha: What a laugh! First of all I ain't the biggest fan of the Democrats either but they are FAR from as corrupt as the republicans. You can't give one solid reason why delay and his cronies shouldn't get locked the fuck up for treason.
And you wanna talk about petty??? The republicans spent billions on trying to get Clinton impeached for getting his dick sucked! And you wanna talk about PETTY!?!? :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

[KaBar2]

No, the Republicans tried to impeach Clinton for LYING TO CONGRESS about getting his dick sucked. There is a substantial difference. I always kind of wondered if Monica Lewinsky wasn't working for the Republicans the whole time, but I'm sure the Dems would have checked that out. Poor Clinton. So much available pussy, so little time. I can't really blame the guy, if I was married to Hillary "The Bitch" Rodham Clinton, I'd probably be out trying to get my dick sucked by 20-year-old interns too.

Too bad that we have no genuinely admirable, qualified candidates running for President. The choices we get are always empty suits.

I guess you guys will probably get a shot at electing Hillary next time around. If she runs, that is. And you needn't worry about that "A woman cannot be elected President" thing, because from all outward appearances, Hillary probably has a dick, so it shouldn't be a problem.

[John Birch]

I'm 54. Twenty years from now, probably, I'll be gone. Maybe thirty, at the outside. You guys, however, will still be enjoying this delightful, liberal, multi-cultural smorgasbord. Bon appetit.
Quoted post
[/quote]



wait a minute here... you're 54? What the hell are you doing going on a graffiti internet forum?

[SF1]

Originally posted by KaBar2@Oct 2 2005, 01:47 AM
No, the Republicans tried to impeach Clinton for LYING TO CONGRESS about getting his dick sucked. There is a substantial difference. I always kind of wondered if Monica Lewinsky wasn't working for the Republicans the whole time, but I'm sure the Dems would have checked that out. Poor Clinton. So much available pussy, so little time. I can't really blame the guy, if I was married to Hillary "The Bitch" Rodham Clinton, I'd probably be out trying to get my dick sucked by 20-year-old interns too.

Too bad that we have no genuinely admirable, qualified candidates running for President. The choices we get are always empty suits.
Quoted post


Actually, Clinton was one of our greatest presidents to date.
As for lieing to Congress, and the American people (including his WIFE), what did you expect him to just fess up to cheating on his wife on national tellivision??? You stated that if Hilary was your wife that you would be taking advantage of silly 20 year old interns too. So what exactly was your point?

And what exactly does any of that have to do with how he ran the country? Apparently NOTHING because he did an outstanding job, unlike your butt-buddy Republican douchebag freinds that seem to be running America into the fucking ground!

[PushbuttonWarfare]

Yeah. cause lying to congress about a fairly moot and personal point pertaining to personal relations and job favors really is waaaaaaaay worse than breaking federal rules pertaining to the democratic process that concerns every man woman and child in america.

I'm still not convinced by people who say they met kabaar that he's not one of these individuals who gets hired now to go on popular web conversation boards and hopefully shift the mindsets of mostly disconcerned individuals. His usual methods of not entertaining points he'd fail on always reinforces my suspicions. He usually just whimsically comes in, throws out a bunch of disinformation, gives a fantastic "back when I was your age" story and replys mostly to the kids who don't debate well.

[SF1]

Originally posted by PushbuttonWarfare@Oct 2 2005, 07:18 AM
Yeah. cause lying to congress about a fairly moot and personal point pertaining to personal relations and job favors really is waaaaaaaay worse than breaking federal rules pertaining to the democratic process that concerns every man woman and child in america.

I'm still not convinced by people who say they met kabaar that he's not one of these individuals who gets hired now to go on popular web conversation boards and hopefully shift the mindsets of mostly disconcerned individuals. His usual methods of not entertaining points he'd fail on always reinforces my suspicions. He usually just whimsically comes in, throws out a bunch of disinformation, gives a fantastic "back when I was your age" story and replys mostly to the kids who don't debate well.
Quoted post




This is what I been saying for a minute! Even if he did meet up with some 12oz heads it doesn't mean that he aint a Republican propoganda plant faking the funk collecting a paycheck to spew nonsense to young impressionable kids. I mean for gods sake someone posted a flick of him getting a hobo streak on a freight and it looked like it was his first time using a meanstreak. Not to mention I never seen a Kabar streak on a freight ever and those things last for decades.

And for real I never even heard anyone ever say that they had paid plants, it's just that it seems obviouse to me that they are deffinately on here and other boards and that's exactly how Kabar and a few others come across.

I called him out before and everyone thought I was calling him a cop and laughed at me. I wasn't calling him a cop, I'm just saying that I don't buy into his stories and I think he's full of shit.

[CACashRefund]

anyone who throws out a different opinion than you is always stupid or a cop...

and instead of debating their points you always want to bring that up

[SF1]

Originally posted by CACashRefund@Oct 3 2005, 12:08 AM
anyone who throws out a different opinion than you is always stupid or a cop...

and instead of debating their points you always want to bring that up
Quoted post



I never accused you of being a cop before you told me you were. I asked you if you were a cop because everytime someone has something negative to say about them you take it personal and jump to their deffense. You say shit along the lines of if you break the law then you deserve what you get.
We are graffiti writers on here! We break the law every fucking day. And we are naturally suspisciouse of people who look or act like cops. I can't see you but you sound like a cop from the way you swing from their nuts so hard at every chance. Real recognise real and I don't recognise you. You smell fishy. But instead of flat out accusing you I asked you why you sound like a cop? And you responded with "yeah I'm a cop" and trying to turn it around on me like I'm a joke for calling you out on it.

For all I know you aint a cop, just some non streetwise fool who for some reason has an affection toward the police and for some reason hangs out on a graffiti site even though he thinks it's wrong to break the law. But if you go around acting like a cop or talking like a cop then don't blame the guy on the "criminal" graffiti site that calls you out on it. Blame yourself for talking like a cop and for confessing to being one whether you were joking or not. If it was on the street either people just straight wouldn't fuck with you cause they think you're a cop, or you'd get worked.

[CACashRefund]

Originally posted by SF1+Oct 2 2005, 06:59 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SF1 - Oct 2 2005, 06:59 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>I never accused you of being a cop before you told me you were. I asked you if you were a cop because everytime someone has something negative to say about them you take it personal and jump to their deffense. You say shit along the lines of if you break the law then you deserve what you get.[/b]

I dont get personal.
Ever hear of speaking in favor of a different point of view for arguments sake?

Maybe i should jump on the bandwagon
"fuck pigs d00d1!!1"


Originally posted by SF1@Oct 2 2005, 06:59 PM
Real recognise real and I don't recognise you.

Who are you again?


<!--QuoteBegin-SF1@Oct 2 2005, 06:59 PM
You smell fishy. But instead of flat out accusing you I asked you why you sound like a cop? And you responded with "yeah I'm a cop" and trying to turn it around on me like I'm a joke for calling you out on it.[/quote]

you are a joke
respond with whatever you want im not gonna bother with another thread jack.

PS

:hatred: :biglaugh: :crying: :beat: :bday: :bawling: :lol: :king: :jpotato: :jestor:

[SF1]

Aaaawwww... You mad? :sadcrying: :bawling:

[CACashRefund]

im... im... im steaming mad

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrr
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0943990629.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[!@#$%]

:rolleyes:

tom delay guys, tom delay.

[Biggus Dickus]

I hear Tom Delay is secretly .... Pakistani. Discuss.

[SF1]

DeLay Indicted Again
A grand jury indicts the Texas Republican on two new felony charges, including money laundering. DeLay could face life in prison if convicted.

:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

[KaBar2]

Like I said---"Hard ball."

[hobo knife]

So...it looks like dude has definitely been involved in something illegal (I really doubt anyone would make these allegations up) ...why can't the right wing just accept that he might be guilty of very very serious crimes? Why is it automaticaly a partisan issue...if the situation was reversed would the right wing be screaming "See how corrupt the democrats are."

[KaBar2]

Originally posted by hobo knife@Oct 5 2005, 02:03 PM
So...it looks like dude has definitely been involved in something illegal (I really doubt anyone would make these allegations up) ...why can't the right wing just accept that he might be guilty of very very serious crimes? Why is it automaticaly a partisan issue...if the situation was reversed would the right wing be screaming "See how corrupt the democrats are."
Quoted post


Because the Republicans don't give a shit whether he's guilty or not, any more than the Democrats cared whether or not the Clintons were guilty of anything during the Starr investigations. Nobody on either side gives a shit about the law, it's about OBTAINING AND EXERCISING POLITICAL POWER. Guys like DeLay have very powerful friends, especially in Texas, and they have very long memories. You can bet your ass that they are planning to have Earle's political head on a pike one way or another. The most likely plan is to give strong support to another Democrat to unseat Earle. They will probably give money to a Democratic kingmaker who has better sense than to indict the most powerful Republican in Congress on some petty-ass bullshit like this. The kingmaker will then support some well-known Austin attorney with impeccable Democratic credentials who can run against Earle and win. A woman attorney perhaps, or a black attorney. There are plenty of Texas Democrats who and angry about Earle upsetting the applecart. With DeLay in power, it is raining pork on Texas. That puts money in everybody's pocket, Democrat and Republican alike. They all talk a good game about idealism, blah, blah, blah but the bottom line is money and power.

And by the way, SF1, what makes you think that you are qualified to decide whether or not somebody else on this forum is a "plant," or a "cop" or anything else? Can you not realize that thegenuine plants and undercover cops would be ADVOCATING THE COMMISSION OF CRIMES, and not the reverse? You don't need to worry about people who say "don't break the Law." You need to worry about people who try to convince you that breaking the Law is just peachy.

I hope just a few of the guys on here listen to what I've got to say. Obviously, you won't, and that's just fine with me. But there are other people on here who would prefer to have a life free of problems with the police, drugs, alcohol, tobacco, etc. Maybe you don't want that, but what is your problem with other people avoiding all that shit? You don't like Republicans and the Republican viewpoint of the world--great. Be our guest, just be as oppositional as you please. You have a right to your opinions, and SO DOES EVERYBODY ELSE. You have no corner on what is best for everybody else, any more than I do.

I try to avoid ad hominem attacks. When I have nothing good to say, I try to avoid saying much of anything. I'm sorry that you cannot emerge victorious from every argument. I'm sure it's frustrating for you. Kindly try to refrain from accusing others of things of which you have absolutely no proof. It's silly, and borders on the ridiculous. I have met with several people from 12 oz., all of whom approached me. I enjoyed meeting them, and did my best to show them what they wanted to know.

I do not streak many cars, usually only cars I have ridden. Boxcars, I usually streak inside. I'm sorry you are disappointed in not being able to find any cars I've streaked, and even more sorry that you do not care for my technique. That's life. I guess I'll just have to live with it.

[hobo knife]

Originally posted by KaBar2@Sep 28 2005, 12:48 PM
Well, they had to scratch through a ton of paperwork, but the Democrats finally figured out a way to unseat Tom DeLay from the leadership of the Republican majority in the House of Representatives, at least temporarily. His crime? That he "conspired" with members of the Texans for a Republican Majority Political Action Committee to make $190,000 worth of campaign contributions to Texas candidates after the 60-day cut-off before an election. Oh goodness gracious! The Republic is in peril! Like the Democrats never made campaign contributions that smelled a little ripe.

LAME ASS WHINERS. The Democrats rammed their liberal shit down our throats for FORTY YEARS, but whine like little babies when the Republicans are in the catbird seat. We should check the list of Travis County grand jurors to make sure none of them reside in a Travis County cemetary, that's the usual Democratic trick down here with "registered voters." (Dead Texans seem to always vote Democratic.)

Oh, well. National politics is hardball. DeLay is a big boy. "Let the games begin."
Quoted post


well, you're right, unfortunately politics revolve around power and money. (not democracy, voting, justice, equality, freedom, liberty or anything else) But at the beginning of this thread you're spewing out rhetoric as if one party (republican) is not as guilty as the other. When in reality, in the case at hand, it is the republicans who are guilty. So what you're doing here with this thread is just continuing a retarded fucking cycle of name calling. But then later on (after the spin of the media has died down and you're not constantly exposed to the rhetoric you were regurgitating a couple weeks ago) you come to the conclusion that it's just politics as usual.

[SF1]

Originally posted by KaBar2@Oct 11 2005, 07:05 AM
And by the way, SF1, what makes you think that you are qualified to decide whether or not somebody else on this forum is a "plant," or a "cop" or anything else?*** Can you not realize that thegenuine plants and undercover cops would be ADVOCATING THE COMMISSION OF CRIMES, and not the reverse?*** You don't need to worry about people who say "don't break the Law."*** You need to worry about people who try to convince you that breaking the Law is just peachy.

Quoted post

Pretty much what you're doing. You're saying that it's ok for the Republicans to not only break the law but to actually commit treason, whatever they have to do to steal power. Right?

You sound confused.








Oh, and my common sense along with the first ammendment (which you fuckwads haven't fully supressed yet) qualifies me to speak on the obvious.

[SF1]

Originally posted by KaBar2@Sep 28 2005, 12:48 PM
We should check the list of Travis County grand jurors to make sure none of them reside in a Travis County cemetary, that's the usual Democratic trick down here with "registered voters."*** (Dead Texans seem to always vote Democratic.)
Quoted post


And whoever is responsible for that should be charged with voter fraud and treason. And so should the Republicans that fix the voter machines and "deliver" the republican vote. And so should the Republicans and cops that shut down voting locations in black and other democratic districts. :rolleyes:

[Biggus Dickus]

DEMOCRATS KILLED KABAR'S POODLE!

[KaBar2]

Biggus Dickus, what the heck does that mean?

[KaBar2]

SF 1, if you want to give vast quantities of corporate or labor union money to Democratic candidates in violation of Texas state elections laws, I say "Go right ahead." Cool with me. I won't tell.

[SF1]

Originally posted by KaBar2@Oct 12 2005, 07:53 AM
SF 1, if you want to give vast quantities of corporate or labor union money to Democratic candidates in violation of Texas state elections laws, I say "Go right ahead." Cool with me. I won't tell.
Quoted post


I aint giving money to nobody. What are you talking about?

How can you bash the Democrats for being corrupt while in the same breath praising the Republicans???
That's the same as supporting the Talliban to overthrow some Middle East country because the Middle East country has been known to harbor terrorists.
The Republicans are the Gods of corruption. They're so filthy and beyond corrupt that they border on treason.

You contradict yourself. You make no sense.
I think you need to take your meds Kabar. :nut:

[POIESIS]

democrats make me want to puke with their phoney shit.
at least republicans are straight out criminals and make no
bones about it. democrats prance around in tutu's like they own the
moral high ground while doing lawless things themselves and being
complete pushover's for the republican's crime spree agenda.
it's dispicable. both parties need to go huff some anthrax.

[POIESIS]

btw, what ever happened to the 9/11 domestic anthrax attack investigation?
hmmmmmm

[SF1]

Originally posted by POIESIS@Oct 12 2005, 03:34 PM
both parties need to go huff some anthrax.
Quoted post



Agreed.

[KaBar2]

SF1---
That was a joke, guy. That's what DeLay is accused of doing---arranging to have corporate money channeled to Republican candidates through a Republican shell. This is against the law, supposedly "for over a hundred years." It is also against the law to channel labor union funds to political candidates, but of course, the Democrats would never do such a thing. It's ONLY THE REPUBLICANS who allow special interest money to reach the campaign fund accounts of their candidates.

Yup, they're the Devil all right.

Politics is a dirty business. It is rife with corruption and deal-making and attempts to bias the outcome of laws, rules and regulations. It's still the only system we've got, and despite all it's warts, the best and most free political system on earth. There are some changes I would like to see made, however. I think that the U.S. would do well to have a system closer to the parliamentary system where smaller political parties receive representation according to the number of votes they receive.

The big parties are absolutely against this, of course, because it would mean having to deal with the Communist Party, the Socialist Party, the Socialist Labor Party, the Communist Worker's Party, the Socialist Worker's Party, the Green Party, the People's Party, the Peace & Freedom Party and all the other ultra-Left political parties, regardless of how weak numerically and wacky they might be.

It ALSO means having to deal with the National Socialist Movement, the National Socialist White People's Party, the Southern National Party, the Conservative Party, Lyndon LaRouche's wack-job party (whatever they call themselves now,) regardless of how extremist and crazy they might be.
The present system manages to exclude these people from any genuine political power. Frankly, I don't see that as a bad thing. For the most part, they are lunatics, and I can see no reason to mainstream them and legitimize their crazy-ass messages.

Their response to being marginalized is to join the two main parties, where their wackiness is diffused and muzzled somewhat by being diluted among the rest of the more-or-less sane Democrats and Republicans.

I'm sure the Democrats are not nearly extremist enough for you. You'd probably like to vote Socialist, or at least Democratic Socialist, but you know very well that if you did so, you'd be throwing your vote away, and strengthening the hand of the Republicans.

I voted for Perot as a protest against George Bush 41. He PISSED ME OFF by signing the Assault Weapons Ban, and nearly every single gun owner that I know did the same thing. Bush's stupid-ass move cost him about 15% of the conservative vote, and put Bill Clinton in the White House. I guess I felt if I was going to get fucked, I'd rather get fucked by my adversaries than my so-called friends. I threw my vote away, because the Republicans spit in my face. One of my acquaintances wrote in the Southern National Party candidate. That's really throwing your vote away.

The Republicans and the Democrats are actually two sides of the same coin. The leaders at the top went to the same universities. They belong to the same fraternities. They marry within the same wealthy class of people. It's a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

Nevertheless, there are some small differences between them, policy-wise. If the Democrats would let go of their idiotic opposition to the Second Amendment and their championing of a secular, irresponsible, immoral, socialist society, I would probably return to voting for the candidate, rather than for the party. There is no longer a conservative Democratic Party to support. They were essentially expelled, and became Republicans. So, I vote Republican. My grand-daddy would be appalled.

[hobo knife]

Originally posted by KaBar2@Oct 12 2005, 12:48 PM
SF1---
The Republicans and the Democrats are actually two sides of the same coin. The leaders at the top went to the same universities. They belong to the same fraternities. They marry within the same wealthy class of people. It's a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

Nevertheless, there are some small differences between them, policy-wise. If the Democrats would let go of their idiotic opposition to the Second Amendment and their championing of a secular, irresponsible, immoral, socialist society, I would probably return to voting for the candidate, rather than for the party. There is no longer a conservative Democratic Party to support. They were essentially expelled, and became Republicans. So, I vote Republican. My grand-daddy would be appalled.
Quoted post


Your first paragraph hits the nail on the head. But in the second paragraph you seem to confuse the two parties.... It's the republicans who just engaged in an uneccesary, expensive, war that we are losing...not to mention the reasons for war were based on lies, and the real reasons are extremely obvious when considering the ancestry of our president. If thats not the most fucking irresponsible thing our gov't has done in the last 4 decades, then I don't know the definition of irresponsible. Not to mention this war is extremely immoral too. but whatever. I guess clinton was waay more irresponsible and immoral when he got his dick sucked.

[SF1]

Originally posted by KaBar2+Oct 12 2005, 05:48 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KaBar2 - Oct 12 2005, 05:48 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> It's still the only system we've got, and despite all it's warts, the best and most free political system on earth.
Quoted post
[/b]
This is a lie.

<!--QuoteBegin-KaBar2@Oct 12 2005, 05:48 PM
*** If the Democrats would let go of their idiotic opposition to the Second Amendment and their championing of a secular, irresponsible, immoral, socialist society, I would probably return to voting for the candidate, rather than for the party.*** There is no longer a conservative Democratic Party to support.*** They were essentially expelled, and became Republicans.*** So, I vote Republican.*** My grand-daddy would be appalled.
Quoted post
[/quote]


What's "immoral" about a little Socialism mixed with Democracy? It seems to work pretty fucking well for Canada, as well as a handfull of European countries. I know you grew up brainwashed during the cold war and all but come on, grow the fuck up already and maybe you can honestly answer this without confusing Democratic Socialism with Communism. Cause I'll tell you what we already are alot closer to Communism then alot of Socialist countries and we aint even Socialist.

Also I agree about the Second ammendment. The Republicans by the way are just pretending to have your back on gun rights. It's lip service. Shit I even joined the NRA and all I got out of it was abunch of political propoganda mail and phone calls telling me how evil the Democrats are and who (which Republican) to vote for. It was anoying. I had to tell them to stop calling me. Once guns are completely gone we are 100% enslaved to whatever fascism they want to impose and we are litteraly defensless. There will be no revolution without guns. And you have to be pretty fucking naive or just plain stupid to think that the REPUBLICANS of all people are gonna keep allowing people to have guns. They already pretty much have enough power to tell the NRA to go fuck themselves being as elections are already rigged and peoples votes nolonger matter. Just remember that this is your government that you support when shit hits the fan Kabar. It already is and you're either too brainwashed, stupid, or worried about your guns to even realise it. What good is the Second Amendment gonna do you when the Republicans finnally get their hands on it too? After they already completely obliterated the rest of the Constitution and Bill of rights it aint gonna help you to say "oh gee, I guess I'll switch to Democrat" after the democrats have been completely nuetered to the point that they fit into the frey of Socialists, Green Party, Libertarians etc etc and the only powerfull party left is the fascist Republican Regime.

[KING BLING]

Do innocent men try to scare there accusers and cast doubt by attempting charges against them?

It worked for O.J., why not for O.DeLay?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/12/del...r.ap/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/12/delay.prosecutor.ap/index.html)
DeLay lawyers subpoena prosecutor


WASHINGTON (AP) -- Indicted Rep. Tom DeLay's attorneys are trying to compel testimony by prosecutors on their contacts with grand jurors, sending subpoenas to the Texas district attorney who normally issues them.

DeLay's defense team reversed the normal direction of subpoenas in their strategy to have the charges dismissed before trial. The lawyers contend that the Travis County district attorney, Ronnie Earle, acted improperly with two grand juries that filed charges and one that refused to do so.

DeLay, R-Texas, was obligated to temporarily step aside as House majority leader when charged with conspiracy and money laundering in a state campaign finance investigation led by Earle. DeLay has denied any wrongdoing.

Defense attorney Dick DeGuerin said that Earle refused the subpoena delivered to his office on Tuesday, when he declined to sign a paper acknowledging its delivery. Earle countered that he voluntarily accepted it.

DeGuerin wants Earle and two of his assistants to testify, and said he would redeliver subpoenas Wednesday. Earle responded that redelivery wasn't necessary.

"It was not a properly prepared subpoena but we accepted service voluntarily anyway," the prosecutor said. He refused to say whether he would file a motion to have his subpoena dismissed.

DeGuerin also asked that grand jurors be released from their secrecy oath so they could answer questions about the prosecutor's conduct.

Earle's office said in a written statement, "Because of laws protecting grand jury secrecy, there are limitations to what we can say at this time, but we fully expect to prevail in this matter."

Focus on conversation
DeGuerin wants Earle to answer 12 questions about conversations he had with grand jurors, including whether the prosecutor became angry when a grand jury decided against an indictment of DeLay and why that decision was not publicly released.

He also wants to know the details of Earle's conversation with William Gibson, foreman of a grand jury that indicted DeLay on conspiracy charges, whose term has since ended.

"If you did nothing improper, you should not be concerned about answering these questions," DeGuerin said in his letter to Earle.

The first of three grand juries said DeLay and two political associates conspired to violate Texas election laws; the second declined to indict, and the third accused DeLay of money laundering.

All the charges were related to allegations that corporate money was funneled to Texas legislative candidates in violation of state law. The donations helped Republicans capture the Texas legislature, redraw congressional districts with DeLay's help and take control of the state's congressional delegation.

In a motion filed last week, the defense team said that from September 29 through October 3, Earle and his staff "unlawfully participated in grand jury deliberations and attempted to browbeat and coerce" the grand jury that refused to indict DeLay.

Foreman 'incited'
The motion said Earle then attempted to cover up and delay public disclosure of the refusal, and also "incited" the foreman of the first grand jury to violate grand jury secrecy by talking publicly about the case -- in an effort to influence grand jurors still sitting.

The foreman, William Gibson, gave media interviews after the grand jury finished its work but told The Associated Press that Earle did not ask him to discuss the case.

"That's a bunch of (expletive) there," Gibson said. "That man did not talk to me."

He said Earle advised him and other grand jurors to keep an open mind as they considered evidence and cautioned them, "What goes on behind closed doors is secret."

The lawyers said Earle then spoke about the case with members of the first grand jury, whose work was finished, to get their opinion of what they might have done if they had known their conspiracy indictment was flawed -- as defense attorneys alleged.

Earle then submitted the grand jury opinions to the third grand jury to persuade it to hand down the money laundering indictment, the defense team contended.

[KING BLING]

Originally posted by KaBar2@Oct 12 2005, 09:48 AM
SF1---


I think that the U.S. would do well to have a system closer to the parliamentary system where smaller political parties receive representation according to the number of votes they receive.
Quoted post



I 100% agree with this statement - Hell has frozen over

On the Delay issue, you can't use the argument that others do it as the basis for why its okay that Delay does it - it doesn't work on a moral compass nor in a court of law. Your mom taught you that in regards to jumping off bridges...

Youre doing what Delay is doing as noted in my posted article - instead of explaining the actions or proving the accusations unjust you are trying to show him as 'not that bad'. You have yet to show any testable info regarding Delays innocence or the motives of the prosecutor. Instead you have relied on talk of revenge, attempts to lessen the severity/extent of the crime, and other generalities which have nothing to do with the case at hand.

Did he do it? Yes.

Does it appear to violate state law? Yes, it does appear that way enough for a jury of his peers to see it as qualified for a courts review.

Is anyone showing any proof that the acusations are wrong? No.

Is anyone on the right trying to justify the actions of an accused criminal while attacking a man proven by his record to have few biases in his prosecutions? YES!

[shai hulud]

DeLay still guiding force in House GOP
Despite having been forced out as leader by indictment, he's corralling votes, strategizing
Carl Hulse, New York Times

Wednesday, October 12, 2005

Washington -- When the chairman of the House Appropriations Committee needed guidance on how to prepare for a series of tough spending and budget issues, he sat down with Tom DeLay.

DeLay was also on hand as the Budget Committee chairman held a private session on the drive for new spending cuts. And when the Republican leadership was caught short of votes for a contentious energy bill, DeLay scoured the House floor to help deliver a narrow victory.

While DeLay is officially out of his position as majority leader as a result of his indictment on criminal charges in Texas, he remains the go-to guy for many House Republicans. They say he is virtually indispensable as the party faces the daunting prospect of delivering $50 billion or more in spending cuts as well as an immigration measure in the coming weeks.

"He is still dialed in and gives good counsel, and that is what we are seeking," said John Scofield, a spokesman for Rep. Jerry Lewis, R-Redlands (San Bernardino County), who is chairman of the Appropriations Committee, in explaining why Lewis called in DeLay for advice last week.

But the continuing strong presence of DeLay presents House Republicans with a quandary. Though he has the political muscle and inside knowledge to maneuver difficult legislation in a dicey political climate, he is also operating under the liability of the state criminal charges. Some Republicans acknowledge that their work could be tainted by any perception that he commands the House from the sidelines while awaiting a resolution of the charges.

"DeLay is driving the agenda," said one senior Republican lawmaker who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of talking about internal party matters. "I guess he has to be because he is the only guy who can get this done. But once people find out he is still in charge, that brings its own set of issues."

His intense involvement also creates a potentially awkward situation with Rep. Roy Blunt of Missouri, now the titular No. 2 in the House and a potential permanent candidate for the post should DeLay's Texas legal troubles drag on. Though Blunt has said he expects DeLay to take back the leadership post, the temporary leadership team is still finding its footing, and the task will not be made easier if lawmakers continue to look to DeLay.

"I thought once he was out, people would move on," said James Thurber, director of the Center for Congressional and Presidential Studies at American University. "But he is still there, concentrating power within the leadership and himself."

Democrats were quick to notice as well, pointing out that DeLay was serving in his familiar role on Friday, rounding up elusive votes on the floor of the House as Republicans barely staved off defeat of a measure they said would spur construction of oil refineries.

"I think it will raise questions in the public's mind," said Rep. Steny Hoyer of Maryland, the House's No. 2 Democrat, about DeLay's involvement.

With the House in recess, DeLay is back in Texas, where he is taking a few days off from the relentless media campaign he has been waging against Ronnie Earle, the Austin prosecutor who brought the charges of conspiracy and money laundering. But his legal team continues to contest the charges and Tuesday sought to subpoena Earle and two aides to answer questions about their conduct in the case.

From the moment DeLay relinquished his leadership title after his Sept. 28 indictment, his senior colleagues have not hidden the fact that he will -- for now -- remain a force in the House.

"He is still a full-fledged member of Congress and has lots of political capital, and we are still very interested in his views," said Rep. Deborah Pryce of Ohio, the head of the House Republican Conference.

But how influential DeLay's role would be became apparent only as the House headed toward recess at the end of last week.

When Republicans had a closed meeting late Thursday to consider a leadership plan for spending cuts to pay for hurricane relief, those who attended recounted that DeLay urged his colleagues to pursue a "bold agenda" as the best way to position themselves for the 2006 elections. And he conceded that he and other leaders had been slow to take seriously the need for ways to offset the post-hurricane spending.

Though he is no longer using the large suite of offices assigned to the majority leader on the first floor of the Capitol, he is still taking advantage of a smaller leader's office just off the House floor. Officials said he had met there with Rep. Jim Nussle, R-Iowa, the chairman of the House Budget Committee, and Rep. John Boehner, R-Ohio, chairman of the Education and Workforce Committee, to discuss potential spending cuts to be taken up in the next few weeks.

"We absolutely welcome his help," said Angela Kuck, a Budget Committee spokeswoman.

Aides to DeLay said he would continue to remain active, particularly because they view his absence from the leadership as strictly temporary.

"Mr. DeLay has a unique understanding of a lot of the big policy debates, and he is somebody who has always worked in the past with his colleagues to make the case that their votes are important," said Kevin Madden, DeLay's spokesman. "That is one of the reasons he got into leadership, and people still recognize he has a degree of knowledge and influence."

---------------------------------

Sounds like business as usual on Capitol Hill.

[KING BLING]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/14/delay.ap/index.html

DeLay's campaign goes after prosecutor

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Tom DeLay is using his congressional campaign to distribute to voters derogatory information about the Texas prosecutor who has indicted him -- and to raise more money for a re-election bid that has been affected by the criminal case.

"Help Tom fight back," reads one of the solicitations on the www.TomDelay.com Web site that voters are being directed to as part of an Internet-based campaign paid for by DeLay's re-election committee.

Contributors, voters and others who sign up can get regular e-mails and an electronic "toolkit" from DeLay's campaign with the latest disparaging information his legal team has prepared on Texas prosecutor Ronnie Earle.

"Join thousands of conservatives across the country in the fight against liberal DA Ronnie Earle," recipients are told.

Recipients are offered a full dossier about the Democratic prosecutor and his "baseless political indictment" with subjects like:


"Ronnie Earle's previous misuse of his office," which highlights failures in Earle's career such as his unsuccessful case against Republican Texas Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison in the 1990s.


"Earle asks for a Do-Over," which focuses on the prosecutor's decision to seek a re-indictment of DeLay on different charges after the congressman's lawyers raised technical questions about the first indictment.


"Coming Soon: The Ronnie Earle Movie," which highlights reports that Earle allowed a film crew to follow him during parts of the investigation.

Legal experts said DeLay's use of congressional campaign donations to attack Earle probably was permissible, though it could lead to legal questions about whether he was trying to influence potential jurors for his trial.

"He clearly is aiming at the jury pool and aiming at voters, hoping to generate as much sympathy as he can," said Larry Noble, the government's former chief election enforcement lawyer. "And it shows DeLay never misses a beat when it comes to fundraising -- no matter how dark things get."

Bruce Yannett, a former Iran-Contra prosecutor, said DeLay's campaign effort might raise questions of trying to taint the potential jury pool but the legal standard for making such a case is difficult to meet.

Nonetheless, Yannett said he could not imagine former President Reagan overtly using his campaign to attack prosecutors during the 1980s investigation of the Iran-Contra affair. "It does seem a little unusual," Yannett said.

DeLay has been indicted along with several colleagues on charges he conspired to launder illegal corporate contributions to Texas state candidates. He denies the charges. (Read about latest subpoenas)

Earle, apparently, hasn't been solicited by the campaign. "I haven't seen it and have no comment," the prosecutor said when reached Friday. Earle has strongly denied politics has anything to do with his prosecution.

'Perfectly legal'
Don McGahn, a lawyer for DeLay's campaign, said the use of the campaign for the anti-Earle effort was "perfectly legal" and had nothing do with trying to sway jurors.

The indictment "is obvious big news in Texas, so it is obviously something the campaign should address for the voters whom it affects," McGahn said. "The intent is just for people to understand the truth. There is no other purpose here."

"Ronnie Earle is wrong on the facts. Ronnie Earle is wrong on the law," the Web site states as it analyzes the twists and turns in the case in the most favorable light to the congressman.

It also gives readers their own tools -- letting them send a letter to newspaper editors in support of DeLay, contact a radio talk show or e-mail DeLay's statement to friends.

And the Web site wouldn't be complete without the oldest pitch in politics.

"Make a contribution," it asks.

[angelofdeath]

""Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it"
- Thomas Sowell Black Conservative

[KING BLING]

Originally posted by angelofdeath@Oct 17 2005, 05:47 PM
""Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it"
- Thomas Sowell Black Conservative
Quoted post



"For I was hungry and you gave me food,
I was thirsty and you gave me drink,
I was a Stranger and you Welcomed me,
I was naked and you clothed me,
I was sick and you visited me,
I was in prison and you came to me."
Matthew 25


Is that conservatives God the same as Mathews? God did all that for Mathew after all, so WWRD <what would the republican do?>

Conservatives don't like to give food or water, they are cutting aid for the hungry as we speak.

The militias on the boarder don't seem too welcoming, nor does cutting services to homeless agencies.

If a conservative gave clothing it would be a "hand out" and only acceptable if Haliburton supplied the cloth at $95 a t-shirt

Sick? You better be work for a company that will give you full coverage, will allow you to stay on the payroll beyond a few weeks of absence and DON'T try to to go bankrupt when your medical bills get too crazy - you can't anymore. Kill yourself, its legal in Oregon - states rights! Wait, conservatives don't like that either...

Prison? Conservatives love prisoners - thats why they build so many prisons, they are like little houses of JOY!


Anyway...Looks like Delay wants to redraw the districts again and get himself a fine conservative judge in a rural area who will see better why corruption is neccesary to instill the morality and responcibility that are pillars of the republican party...

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Rep. Tom DeLay appeared in court Friday for the first time since indictment, but arraignment on conspiracy and money laundering charges was delayed pending a hearing on his request for a new judge in the politically-charged case.

DeLay, who has stepped aside at least for the time being as House majority leader, did not speak during the brief court session, and was not called on to make a plea.

But at a news conference shortly afterward, he attacked the prosecutor in the case as politically motivated, and said, "I will absolutely be exonerated."

Inside the courtroom, Judge Bob Perkins told defense lawyer Dick DeGuerin that "the best way for me to handle" the request for a new judge would be to defer further proceedings.

That set the stage for a pointed exchange between the two men that seemed as much a campaign debate as a courtroom exchange.

In respectful tones, DeGuerin noted that Perkins had donated money to MoveOn.org, a liberal organization that he said has been "selling T-shirts with Mr. DeLay's mug shot on it."

Judge responds
"Let me just say I haven't ever seen that T-shirt, number one. Number two, I haven't bought it. Number three, the last time I contributed to MoveOn that I know of was prior to the November election last year, when they were primarily helping Sen. Kerry," responded the judge.

MoveOn.org denied it was selling any such shirts, and issued a statement that said, "DeGuerin has either bad information or lied in court."

"All we want is a fair trial and a fair tribunal," DeGuerin told reporters outside the courthouse.

Prosecutor Ronnie Earle signaled he intends to contest the request for a new judge.

"What this means is if a judge had contributed to Crime Stoppers that judge could not hear a burglary case," Earle said. "Carried to its extreme, that is what I think this motion means and I think that's absurd."

"We don't live in a country where political party determines the measure of justice," Earle said, adding that he though DeLay could get a fair trial in the state's capital.

It was not clear when the hearing would be held on DeLay's motion to replace Perkins, nor was it clear how much it would lengthen proceedings in the case. The Texas congressman has said he wants a speedy trial.

DeLay appeared relaxed as he sat next to his wife, Christine, in the courtroom for what turned out to be a session of roughly four minutes. Earlier, he had entered the courthouse through a side door to avoid the cameras.

DeLay and two political associates are charged in an alleged scheme to funnel corporate donations to GOP candidates for the Texas Legislature. State law prohibits use of corporate donations to elect or defeat state candidates. All three deny wrongdoing.

Political from the beginning
The case has had a political cast from the outset. The charges arise from a campaign in which Republicans gained control of the legislature, then used their new majority to force through a redistricting plan that netted the GOP additional seats in the U.S. House of Representatives.

DeLay's indictment has roiled Republican politics in Washington, where he was forced to step aside as the No. 2 House Republican. With an eye on the 2006 elections, Democrats have sought to turn him into a symbol of what they depict as an ethically-challenged Republican majority.

But apart from giving up his leadership post -- as required under GOP rules -- DeLay has been nothing but defiant.

He retains a powerful influence in the House GOP high command, has repeatedly attacked Earle and now seeks to force the removal of the judge, who has donated to the organization that DeLay's lawyer described as antithetical to GOP fortunes.

"I will not let a prosecutor who pursues his political enemies by abusing the law and manufacturing baseless charges wreck our justice system," DeLay said at his news conference.

Change of venue
Apart from seeking a new judge, the congressman's lawyers are asking to have the case moved out of Austin, one of the state's most liberal areas.

DeLay turned himself in to the Harris County sheriff's office in Houston on Thursday, avoiding hordes of reporters waiting for him in nearby Fort Bend County, where he lives.

He smiled broadly in a mug shot that was publicly released. DeLay also was fingerprinted, went before a judge and was released on $10,000 bail.

DeLay's co-defendants are John Colyandro of Dallas, who was executive director of a Texas political action committee founded by DeLay, and Jim Ellis, a paid adviser who also runs DeLay's national fundraising committee. They also face conspiracy and money laundering charges, but their attorneys asked that their cases be separated from DeLay's proceedings.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/21/del...t.ap/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/21/delay.court.ap/index.html)

[angelofdeath]

once again Bling, nice try, but you just dont get it. the verse which you quote does not say for the government at gun point rob the people of its money and redistribute it. real conservatives believe (AKA THE FRAMERS OF OUR COUNTRY) in not taxing the incomes of the citizens by the federal government. it was written into the constitution. our government was financed for over a century mainly on tariff revenue. it is should not be the job of the federal government to rob americans of thier money to give away to someone else. i know its hard to fathom, but the United States is/was a republic.

i dont think you realize how generous the american people are. take for example hurricane katrina. 600 m in private aid was generated in less than a week.

how did people get along with out reliance on the federal welfare state pre new deal? its called friendship, family, and responsibility. lets see the government has done such a good job with the welfare state right? how come spending has topped 17 trillion and poverty HAS NO DECREASED?
not enough money?

[KING BLING]

Originally posted by angelofdeath@Oct 21 2005, 07:25 PM
how did people get along with out reliance on the federal welfare state pre new deal? its called friendship, family, and responsibility. lets see the government has done such a good job with the welfare state right? how come spending has topped 17 trillion and poverty HAS NO DECREASED?***
not enough money?
Quoted post


I don't even have the ability to understand people on "your side" anymore.

My favorite thing I read today was a front page report from the local daily paper that showed how the working class families in my state had income that was barely growing while the cost of rent, real estate, medical bills, and neccesary life expendetures was rising exponentiality. Have you read The Grapes Of Wrath as an adult? The problem is that when left to a free market, which really is much more the state of things just a less "log cabin" version than you would love, the rich are corrupt, which is a powerful word for selfish. The perfect example of this is our modern medical establishment - no pharmaceutical or insurance company today is seeing a loss in profits yet they persue more through laws which protect them - if the government didn't exist as it, do you really think they wouldn't find another way to influence law to benifit them? HELL, thats what this thread itself is about - a violation of STATE law. Your rhetoric about the foundation of our country is just as naive as any socialism ever was....You want to ban gays and let men kill blacks if a state says so, go ahead - there isn't a market for humanity and justice - but the federal government helped over step those "states rights" and made justice happen. States should be self directed, but you can't refuse to pay the fees than ask why the fire company didn't stop your house from burning down (as it was before public fire fighting) - maybe california should just conquer the bible belt and declare it Claifornia 2 - it isn't in the constitution that states can not conquer other states afer all. The concept of a free market with independant states simply does not apply to the modern world where if this state says 'no', the company can simply move to the next. It happens with thrid world countries all the time - its a race to the bottom and the current deflation of the American middle class proves that given the ability to get the cheapest labor no matter the cost, no company relies on "friendship" or "family" as a test of there actions. You can't ask your neighbor for a handout when they are already asking theres for one too...

socialism as its been practices was not as should be. Sweden is a socialist democratic state and its doing just fine with the CEO of Volvo getting taxed like hell...

[angelofdeath]

thanks for putting words in my mouth. i find it hilarious that as soon as any decentralization of the numerous worthless federal programs is mentioned you immediately scream that I want to "ban gay people and kill blacks." this is just extremely funny to me. socialism is bull shit. our country had a REVOLUTION because England put a fucking tax on tea and stamps, and now we surrender half of our income to useless government beauracracies. your ideas of socialism sound well and good, but history has proven whenever you hear things to good to be true, it always takes a turn for the worst. nazi germany come to mind? communist russia come to mind? free healthcare and every one is equal right?

i dont even know what you are talking about california conquering another state. i guess they could try, it was tried before, during the War Between the States.

the fact of the matter is you dont understand the constitution or what it is set up to do. the federal government is very limited and the constitution specifically states what it is allowed to do. the states composed of "we the people" created the federal government. what are some simple things it can do? it regulates the free market zone between the states, it regulates foreign commerce, provides a common defense, establishes post roads, and maintains a navy. there are more, but you get the drift. it recognizes our rights from our creator and proceeds to tell the government to keep the fuck off and establishes the government to protect them. no where does it say "everyone shall recieve the same income and wealth status, at the expense of other citizens."

you want to bring up "christian morals" yet you want to steal from people, to give it to someone else. we are 50 governments not one. each state was designed to be sovereign. you mention that states want to kill blacks and im sure you were implying jim crow. apply your logic to iraq. there was genocide in iraq, bush stepped in, why is this bad? its the same thing you want done to the states. so in another words your a neo con?

we are a republic, founded on individual freedom, self reliance, limited federal government, and sovereign states. a strong central government is easiest to promote tyranny.

[KaBar2]

The Houston Chronicle reports that Travis County prosecutors issued a subpoena Friday for the head of MoveOn.org, a liberal Democratic political organization "founded for the 2004 elections as a means of getting around new federal campaign finance laws that were designed to limit the influence of money on national elections."

Eli Praiser, executive director of MoveOn.org was subpoenaed to testify whether or not District Judge Bob Perkins (a well-known liberal Democrat who donated money to Democrat Party organizations, including MoveOn.org) should be removed from hearing the criminal case against U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay.

Rep. DeLay's attorney, Dick DeGuerin (he was also one of the attorneys for the surviving Branch Davidians railroaded into prison) has asked to have Judge Perkins removed from the case due to the perception of bias. He gave money to MoveOn.org, and they have been attacking Rep. DeLay in order to raise money.

Rep. DeLay is charged with violating Texas state election laws, money laundering and conspiracy to commit money laundering. The indictments allege that Rep. DeLay and two associates had a scheme to circumvent state laws prohibiting the use of corporate money in campaigns for public office. (This same law ALSO prohibits the use of LABOR UNIUON FUNDS the same way, but of course, the Democrat Party and MoveOn.org wouldn't know anything about secretly using union funds for political purposes....)

Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle also filed a brief Friday claiming DeGuerin had failed to point to any campaign contributions that would show Judge Perkins would be biased against Rep. DeLay as his trial judge. The motion included three affidavits from Travis Co. lawyers (all Democrats, I'll wager) testifying to Perkins' fairness as a judge. Mr. Earle also subpoenaed records from the Texas Ethics Commission for all political donations made by criminal district court judges in Travis, Dallas and Tarrant counties from 2000 to 2005. A check of these records showed most had made political contributions to their local party offices, but few had made federal political contributions.

Perkins asked for the removal hearing because he said DeGuerin's motion raises questions about whether a judge of one political party can oversee the case of a politician from the opposing party.
Texas judges face partisan elections to keep their seats. Retired District Judge C.W. "Bud" Duncan, Jr. is scheduled to hear the removal case Tuesday. The Democrat was picked for the case by the regional administrative judge, B.B. Schraub, a registered Republican.

[KING BLING]

Judges!

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- A new judge has been appointed to preside over Rep. Tom DeLay's campaign finance trial after two judges stepped away from their involvement in the case because of their political contributions.

But judicial wrangling left the validity of Thursday's appointment of semiretired Senior Judge Pat Priest of San Antonio in question.

Priest, a Democrat, was selected to replace District Judge Bob Perkins, who was removed Tuesday at DeLay's request because of his contributions to Democrats.

Republican Administrative Judge B.B. Schraub had been named earlier Thursday to select a new presiding judge after Perkins was removed, but he withdrew at the request of Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle because of his political contributions to GOP candidates.

Schraub then asked state Supreme Court Chief Justice Wallace Jefferson to name the new judge and Jefferson selected Priest.

But at about the same time, the district attorney asked that Jefferson to withdraw from the process. Earle's office had no immediate comment Friday on the selection of Priest or what the next step would be.

Jefferson's 2002 campaign treasurer, Bill Ceverha, was treasurer of DeLay's Texans for a Republican Majority Political Action Committee, according to state documents examined by The Associated Press.

The PAC is a co-defendant in DeLay's case and Ceverha was a defendant this spring in a civil trial brought by Democrats who lost state legislative races to Republicans in 2002.

Jefferson also was elected to his seat with the help of a $25,000 donation from the Republican National State Elections Committee, a group at the heart of the money laundering charge against DeLay.

He also received $2,000 from a DeLay-run PAC whose executive director is a co-defendant.

Lawyers on both sides in DeLay's case have argued that political contributions by judges have harmed at least the appearance of impartiality. But in a state where judges are elected and free to contribute to candidates and political parties, it could be a challenge to find a judge who meets both sides' definition of impartial.

DeLay is charged with illegally funneling corporate campaign contributions to Republican candidates for the 2002 legislative races. The Texas Republican was forced to step down as House majority leader after being indicted.

DeLay attorney Dick DeGuerin agreed that the system of electing partisan judges is flawed, but he criticized Earle for setting Thursday's situation in motion.

Earle said Schraub should remove himself because he has given money to GOP candidates including Gov. Rick Perry, an ally in DeLay's successful effort to redraw congressional districts to benefit Republicans.

DeLay's contributions to Texas Republicans helped the GOP win control of the Texas House in 2002. Then, in a series of special sessions called by Perry, the GOP pushed through a redistricting plan crafted by DeLay that helped get more Republicans elected to Congress in 2004.

Prosecutors also suggested that Schraub, 76, appears politically indebted to Perry, who appointed him as administrative judge and can reappoint him in January.

DeLay objected to Perkins, a Democrat, because he has contributed to Democratic candidates such as John Kerry and the liberal advocacy group MoveOn.org.

The judicial wrangling is "a great shame," said Charles Silver, a legal ethics professor at the University of Texas Law School.

"It says that the judges who we elect can't be trusted to apply the law neutrally in cases that in some way, shape or form bear on their political beliefs," Silver said. "If that's true, we really need to revamp the whole system."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/04/del...t.ap/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/04/delay.indictment.ap/index.html)

[KING BLING]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/21/sr.mon/index.html

Cheney to raise funds for DeLay

The White House is not distancing itself from embattled former U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas), who is facing charges of breaking state campaign finance law.

Vice President Cheney is scheduled to appear at a December 5, Houston fundraiser on DeLay's behalf. Donors are being asked to contribute at least $500, according to an e-mail sent by the Fort Bend (Texas) Republican Party. Shannon Flaherty, DeLay's spokeswoman, confirmed details of the fundraiser.

"For five years, Congressman DeLay has served as a key ally to pass the White House's agenda through Congress, and Ronnie Earle's political sideshow isn't going to get in the way of the real business at hand," said Flaherty. "This event shows the Democrat strategy of avenging their ballot box losses with smear tactics and lawsuits is not going to work -- Republicans stick by their friends and don't back down from a fight."

DeLay was forced to step down from his leadership position in late September after Earle, the Travis County (Texas) district attorney, charged him with illegally directing corporate donations to Texas candidates. DeLay has asked that his trial be moved from Travis to Fort Bend County.

As of September 30, 2005, DeLay had $1.164 million in his warchest. Former Rep. Nick Lampson (D-Texas) is challenging DeLay for his seat.