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SUAVEFELLAPART2
09-23-2006, 03:16 AM
This is text version of Hugo Chavez' address to UN on September 20th, 2006.

Chavez Address to the United Nations
by Hugo Chavez
Address to the UN
New York
September 20, 2006


Representatives of the governments of the world, good morning to all of you. First of all, I would like to invite you, very respectfully, to those who have not read this book, to read it.

Noam Chomsky, one of the most prestigious American and world intellectuals, Noam Chomsky, and this is one of his most recent books, 'Hegemony or Survival: The Imperialist Strategy of the United States.'" [Holds up book, waves it in front of General Assembly.] "It's an excellent book to help us understand what has been happening in the world throughout the 20th century, and what's happening now, and the greatest threat looming over our planet.

The hegemonic pretensions of the American empire are placing at risk the very survival of the human species. We continue to warn you about this danger and we appeal to the people of the United States and the world to halt this threat, which is like a sword hanging over our heads. I had considered reading from this book, but, for the sake of time," [flips through the pages, which are numerous] "I will just leave it as a recommendation.

It reads easily, it is a very good book, I'm sure Madame [President] you are familiar with it. It appears in English, in Russian, in Arabic, in German. I think that the first people who should read this book are our brothers and sisters in the United States, because their threat is right in their own house.

The devil is right at home. The devil, the devil himself, is right in the house.

"And the devil came here yesterday. Yesterday the devil came here. Right here." [crosses himself] "And it smells of sulfur still today.

Yesterday, ladies and gentlemen, from this rostrum, the president of the United States, the gentleman to whom I refer as the devil, came here, talking as if he owned the world. Truly. As the owner of the world.

I think we could call a psychiatrist to analyze yesterday's statement made by the president of the United States. As the spokesman of imperialism, he came to share his nostrums, to try to preserve the current pattern of domination, exploitation and pillage of the peoples of the world.

An Alfred Hitchcock movie could use it as a scenario. I would even propose a title: "The Devil's Recipe."

As Chomsky says here, clearly and in depth, the American empire is doing all it can to consolidate its system of domination. And we cannot allow them to do that. We cannot allow world dictatorship to be consolidated.

The world parent's statement -- cynical, hypocritical, full of this imperial hypocrisy from the need they have to control everything.

They say they want to impose a democratic model. But that's their democratic model. It's the false democracy of elites, and, I would say, a very original democracy that's imposed by weapons and bombs and firing weapons.

What a strange democracy. Aristotle might not recognize it or others who are at the root of democracy.

What type of democracy do you impose with marines and bombs?

The president of the United States, yesterday, said to us, right here, in this room, and I'm quoting, "Anywhere you look, you hear extremists telling you can escape from poverty and recover your dignity through violence, terror and martyrdom."

Wherever he looks, he sees extremists. And you, my brother -- he looks at your color, and he says, oh, there's an extremist. Evo Morales, the worthy president of Bolivia, looks like an extremist to him.

The imperialists see extremists everywhere. It's not that we are extremists. It's that the world is waking up. It's waking up all over. And people are standing up.

I have the feeling, dear world dictator, that you are going to live the rest of your days as a nightmare because the rest of us are standing up, all those who are rising up against American imperialism, who are shouting for equality, for respect, for the sovereignty of nations.

Yes, you can call us extremists, but we are rising up against the empire, against the model of domination.

The president then -- and this he said himself, he said: "I have come to speak directly to the populations in the Middle East, to tell them that my country wants peace."

That's true. If we walk in the streets of the Bronx, if we walk around New York, Washington, San Diego, in any city, San Antonio, San Francisco, and we ask individuals, the citizens of the United States, what does this country want? Does it want peace? They'll say yes.

But the government doesn't want peace. The government of the United States doesn't want peace. It wants to exploit its system of exploitation, of pillage, of hegemony through war.

It wants peace. But what's happening in Iraq? What happened in Lebanon? In Palestine? What's happening? What's happened over the last 100 years in Latin America and in the world? And now threatening Venezuela -- new threats against Venezuela, against Iran?

He spoke to the people of Lebanon. Many of you, he said, have seen how your homes and communities were caught in the crossfire. How cynical can you get? What a capacity to lie shamefacedly. The bombs in Beirut with millimetric precision?

This is crossfire? He's thinking of a western, when people would shoot from the hip and somebody would be caught in the crossfire.

This is imperialist, fascist, assassin, genocidal, the empire and Israel firing on the people of Palestine and Lebanon. That is what happened. And now we hear, "We're suffering because we see homes destroyed.'

The president of the United States came to talk to the peoples -- to the peoples of the world. He came to say -- I brought some documents with me, because this morning I was reading some statements, and I see that he talked to the people of Afghanistan, the people of Lebanon, the people of Iran. And he addressed all these peoples directly.

And you can wonder, just as the president of the United States addresses those peoples of the world, what would those peoples of the world tell him if they were given the floor? What would they have to say?

And I think I have some inkling of what the peoples of the south, the oppressed people think. They would say, "Yankee imperialist, go home." I think that is what those people would say if they were given the microphone and if they could speak with one voice to the American imperialists.

And that is why, Madam President, my colleagues, my friends, last year we came here to this same hall as we have been doing for the past eight years, and we said something that has now been confirmed -- fully, fully confirmed.

I don't think anybody in this room could defend the system. Let's accept -- let's be honest. The U.N. system, born after the Second World War, collapsed. It's worthless.

Oh, yes, it's good to bring us together once a year, see each other, make statements and prepare all kinds of long documents, and listen to good speeches, like Abel's yesterday, or President Mullah's . Yes, it's good for that.

And there are a lot of speeches, and we've heard lots from the president of Sri Lanka, for instance, and the president of Chile.

But we, the assembly, have been turned into a merely deliberative organ. We have no power, no power to make any impact on the terrible situation in the world. And that is why Venezuela once again proposes, here, today, 20 September, that we re-establish the United Nations.

Last year, Madam, we made four modest proposals that we felt to be crucially important. We have to assume the responsibility our heads of state, our ambassadors, our representatives, and we have to discuss it.

The first is expansion, and Mullah talked about this yesterday right here. The Security Council, both as it has permanent and non-permanent categories, (inaudible) developing countries and LDCs must be given access as new permanent members. That's step one.

Second, effective methods to address and resolve world conflicts, transparent decisions.

Point three, the immediate suppression -- and that is something everyone's calling for -- of the anti-democratic mechanism known as the veto, the veto on decisions of the Security Council.

Let me give you a recent example. The immoral veto of the United States allowed the Israelis, with impunity, to destroy Lebanon. Right in front of all of us as we stood there watching, a resolution in the council was prevented.

Fourthly, we have to strengthen, as we've always said, the role and the powers of the secretary general of the United Nations.

Yesterday, the secretary general practically gave us his speech of farewell. And he recognized that over the last 10 years, things have just gotten more complicated; hunger, poverty, violence, human rights violations have just worsened. That is the tremendous consequence of the collapse of the United Nations system and American hegemonistic pretensions.

Madam, Venezuela a few years ago decided to wage this battle within the United Nations by recognizing the United Nations, as members of it that we are, and lending it our voice, our thinking.

Our voice is an independent voice to represent the dignity and the search for peace and the reformulation of the international system; to denounce persecution and aggression of hegemonistic forces on the planet.

This is how Venezuela has presented itself. Bolivar's home has sought a nonpermanent seat on the Security Council.

Let's see. Well, there's been an open attack by the U.S. government, an immoral attack, to try and prevent Venezuela from being freely elected to a post in the Security Council.

The imperium is afraid of truth, is afraid of independent voices. It calls us extremists, but they are the extremists.

And I would like to thank all the countries that have kindly announced their support for Venezuela, even though the ballot is a secret one and there's no need to announce things.

But since the imperium has attacked, openly, they strengthened the convictions of many countries. And their support strengthens us.

Mercosur, as a bloc, has expressed its support, our brothers in Mercosur. Venezuela, with Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, is a full member of Mercosur.

And many other Latin American countries, CARICOM, Bolivia have expressed their support for Venezuela. The Arab League, the full Arab League has voiced its support. And I am immensely grateful to the Arab world, to our Arab brothers, our Caribbean brothers, the African Union. Almost all of Africa has expressed its support for Venezuela and countries such as Russia or China and many others.

I thank you all warmly on behalf of Venezuela, on behalf of our people, and on behalf of the truth, because Venezuela, with a seat on the Security Council, will be expressing not only Venezuela's thoughts, but it will also be the voice of all the peoples of the world, and we will defend dignity and truth.

Over and above all of this, Madam President, I think there are reasons to be optimistic. A poet would have said "helplessly optimistic," because over and above the wars and the bombs and the aggressive and the preventive war and the destruction of entire peoples, one can see that a new era is dawning.

As Silvio Rodriguez says, the era is giving birth to a heart. There are alternative ways of thinking. There are young people who think differently. And this has already been seen within the space of a mere decade. It was shown that the end of history was a totally false assumption, and the same was shown about Pax Americana and the establishment of the capitalist neo-liberal world. It has been shown, this system, to generate mere poverty. Who believes in it now?

What we now have to do is define the future of the world. Dawn is breaking out all over. You can see it in Africa and Europe and Latin America and Oceanea. I want to emphasize that optimistic vision.

We have to strengthen ourselves, our will to do battle, our awareness. We have to build a new and better world.

Venezuela joins that struggle, and that's why we are threatened. The U.S. has already planned, financed and set in motion a coup in Venezuela, and it continues to support coup attempts in Venezuela and elsewhere.

President Michelle Bachelet reminded us just a moment ago of the horrendous assassination of the former foreign minister, Orlando Letelier.

And I would just add one thing: Those who perpetrated this crime are free. And that other event where an American citizen also died were American themselves. They were CIA killers, terrorists.

And we must recall in this room that in just a few days there will be another anniversary. Thirty years will have passed from this other horrendous terrorist attack on the Cuban plane, where 73 innocents died, a Cubana de Aviacion airliner.

And where is the biggest terrorist of this continent who took the responsibility for blowing up the plane? He spent a few years in jail in Venezuela. Thanks to CIA and then government officials, he was allowed to escape, and he lives here in this country, protected by the government.

And he was convicted. He has confessed to his crime. But the U.S. government has double standards. It protects terrorism when it wants to.

And this is to say that Venezuela is fully committed to combating terrorism and violence. And we are one of the people who are fighting for peace.

Luis Posada Carriles is the name of that terrorist who is protected here. And other tremendously corrupt people who escaped from Venezuela are also living here under protection: a group that bombed various embassies, that assassinated people during the coup. They kidnapped me and they were going to kill me, but I think God reached down and our people came out into the streets and the army was too, and so I'm here today.

But these people who led that coup are here today in this country protected by the American government. And I accuse the American government of protecting terrorists and of having a completely cynical discourse.

We mentioned Cuba. Yes, we were just there a few days ago. We just came from there happily.

And there you see another era born. The Summit of the 15, the Summit of the Nonaligned, adopted a historic resolution. This is the outcome document. Don't worry, I'm not going to read it.

But you have a whole set of resolutions here that were adopted after open debate in a transparent matter -- more than 50 heads of state. Havana was the capital of the south for a few weeks, and we have now launched, once again, the group of the nonaligned with new momentum.

And if there is anything I could ask all of you here, my companions, my brothers and sisters, it is to please lend your good will to lend momentum to the Nonaligned Movement for the birth of the new era, to prevent hegemony and prevent further advances of imperialism.

And as you know, Fidel Castro is the president of the nonaligned for the next three years, and we can trust him to lead the charge very efficiently.

Unfortunately they thought, "Oh, Fidel was going to die." But they're going to be disappointed because he didn't. And he's not only alive, he's back in his green fatigues, and he's now presiding the nonaligned.

So, my dear colleagues, Madam President, a new, strong movement has been born, a movement of the south. We are men and women of the south.

With this document, with these ideas, with these criticisms, I'm now closing my file. I'm taking the book with me. And, don't forget, I'm recommending it very warmly and very humbly to all of you.

We want ideas to save our planet, to save the planet from the imperialist threat. And hopefully in this very century, in not too long a time, we will see this, we will see this new era, and for our children and our grandchildren a world of peace based on the fundamental principles of the United Nations, but a renewed United Nations.

And maybe we have to change location. Maybe we have to put the United Nations somewhere else; maybe a city of the south. We've proposed Venezuela.

You know that my personal doctor had to stay in the plane. The chief of security had to be left in a locked plane. Neither of these gentlemen was allowed to arrive and attend the U.N. meeting. This is another abuse and another abuse of power on the part of the Devil. It smells of sulfur here, but God is with us and I embrace you all.

May God bless us all. Good day to you.

--->
09-23-2006, 03:39 AM
Chavez is good peoples.

El Mamerro
09-23-2006, 04:28 AM
Before moving this to Crossfire, I just want to say that Chavez can eat four dicks.

--->
09-23-2006, 04:35 AM
Whay's that?

iloveboxcars
09-23-2006, 04:35 AM
interesting, why do you say that?

--->
09-23-2006, 04:38 AM
Maybe he's a Bush fan.

El Mamerro
09-23-2006, 05:00 AM
YEAH DUDE I TOTALLY LOVE BUSH!!


I have no sympathy for those who lead by cults of personality. I may not disagree with what he says he stands for, but I still think he's a shady-ass slimebag. Evo Morales leads nobly with the same ideals and none of the grandstanding and general show-off wanking of this asshole.

papa_dukes
09-23-2006, 05:07 AM
haha yeah probally

--->
09-23-2006, 05:14 AM
That's funny. From what i've heard he does alot of good for his people and that's why they love him.

iloveboxcars
09-23-2006, 05:20 AM
KEEL DEM AHLL MON

LET DE GOD SAURT DEM OUWT

El Mamerro
09-23-2006, 05:22 AM
http://www.brentozar.com/archives/2004/07/11/ron.jpg

"Wow, I truly hate Bush. And I look reaaaally good. HEY EVERYONE, COME SEE HOW GOOD I LOOK."



Shut up and lead your fucking country with dignity, you fucking clown.

<~-DeNocheAtacamos-~>
09-23-2006, 05:28 AM
my hero!!!!!!!

--->
09-23-2006, 05:28 AM
Plus he stands his ground and speaks the truth. That shit's mad rare with world leaders or any kind of politicians these days.

--->
09-23-2006, 05:33 AM
El Mamero, can you explain how he's a clown? Or is that just your opinion?

Mainter
09-23-2006, 05:39 AM
move back to crossfire

<~-DeNocheAtacamos-~>
09-23-2006, 06:08 AM
he will set standards by example....american media wont report that with honesty...the gov and media will put a negative spin on it and use negative words to describe a person who is doing great things for people...bush is a fucking piece of shit...what the fuck has he and his crew done for anyone...ide like to know what the body count (americans and foriegn citizens) is during the duration of his presidency...

Some1
09-23-2006, 06:53 AM
ITS 7:21PM AND I AM WASTED I CANT WAIT TO GO TO THE PARTY I WILL BE AT IN 4 HOURS!!!!!

El Mamerro
09-23-2006, 07:40 AM
Don't worry bro, I get plenty of news straight from Venezuela, it's right next door.

--->, of course it's just my opinion. I don't think I can factually prove he's a clown. I think the way I do of him because nothing pisses me off than people full of themselves, who just love to take every available opportunity to remind everyone of just how great they are. Have you seen his TV show? It's outrageous. It's more ridiculous than any Bill O'reilly or Rush Limbaugh show. It's like listening to a televangelist. He leads by charisma alone, falling back on Venezuelan oil wealth and simple anti-Bush rethoric as his malady catch-all. I swear, if Bush happened to say he didn't like basketball, the next day Chavez would hold a major press conference and photo op of him shooting hoops with "the people" and pretending it's been his favorite thing to do in the whole world since he was born. Like I said, I don't disagree with what he stands for, but he could achieve his means without constantly reminding everyone of just how fucking fantastic he is.

I cannot and will not stand by someone with such an outstanding lack of humility. Which brings me back to Evo Morales, homeboy has been nothing but utmostly humble but steadfast with his ideals and goals. He doesn't need a TV show and endless press ops of him cavorting with anything and everything anti-US under the sun to show everyone what he stands for.

fermentor666
09-23-2006, 09:12 AM
I was gonna say that maybe he was talking like that at the UN because he was bringing it down to the level that Bush talks to everyone else. But if he has his on television show, then fuck it.

Theo A. Huxtable
09-23-2006, 10:27 AM
Hugo is a coward because he claims he's "for the poor," coming to the U.S. and trying to give low-cost heating oil to poor Americans in Harlem -- but you go to Venezuela and over 25% of his population lives below the poverty line. And Hugo has more oil reserves than any nation in The Americas. So his people should/could be driving Mercedes Benz's like they do in Qatar. Instead, he'll just spread propaganda about Bush being responsible for Venezuela's poverty while Hugo continues to horde the money for himself and his own interests.

lord_casek
09-23-2006, 11:45 AM
YEAH DUDE I TOTALLY LOVE BUSH!!


I have no sympathy for those who lead by cults of personality. I may not disagree with what he says he stands for, but I still think he's a shady-ass slimebag. Evo Morales leads nobly with the same ideals and none of the grandstanding and general show-off wanking of this asshole.


what does the news say about him in pr?

angelofdeath
09-23-2006, 11:51 AM
i give chavez props for saying bush is the devil. but i cannot condone the rest of the communist DICTATOR's actions. i mean seriously. if it wasnt for the US, venezula wouldnt even have an economy. if chavez gave up his domestic asshole like behavior, and stuck to what he knows, foreign affairs, i might like the guy. the guy otherwise, chavez calling bush the devil is like the pot calling the kettle black. chavez can talk a big game, hold up chomsky books (which is enough of a reason for me to hate chomsky even more) but fact is, chavez relies on the US to survive by selling us its oil, because socialism cannot create wealth. it cannot calculate profit or loss.

so seriously, how is chavez any better than bush?

angelofdeath
09-23-2006, 11:59 AM
posting problems... wtf.


i give props for chavez calling bush the devil. buts sort of like the pot calling the kettle black. if it wasnt for the US, venezula wouldnt even have an economy.

how is chavez any better than bush?

soupBDC
09-23-2006, 01:43 PM
Chavez is a tool for the same reason Bush is a tool. They both are sensationalists who when put into rule, they go after who they think are "Bad Guys" swinging blindly. If Chavez was given the ability to remove everything he dislikes about America, he wouldn't know when to stop. Just how Bush has the ability to go into the middle east and uproot everything he thinks is bad, and hasn't a clue when to stop. I get this impression by his inability to point out obvious specifics that are wrong with Bush and American culture. He just calls him the devil, america is corrupt, blah blah blah. Dudes like him are dime a dozen, just another C student.

The thought comes to mind that he doesn't give specifics because if he did in a UN setting, someone would be able to turn around and call him a hipocrite.

Chavez is calling for social reform, congrats. Dudes like him are dime a dozen.


...I in no way can back up anything I've said tonight. And when I sober up I refuse to explain myself on a later date.

angelofdeath
09-23-2006, 03:37 PM
why in the hell are new posts appearing in the middle of the thread? or is it just my mac?

El Mamerro
09-23-2006, 07:07 PM
Chavez isn't a graff writer, he's the leader of a country with a lot of promise. He should be leading, not performing.

--->
09-23-2006, 08:12 PM
nothing pisses me off than people full of themselves, who just love to take every available opportunity to remind everyone of just how great they are.



Welcome to graffiti. All of us graffiti writers are the same way:biglaugh:.

At least Chavez has a better excuse than us. He's the leader of a country... and an integral part of defending what's left of the world from a rouge empire.

At least that's my impression.



.

--->
09-23-2006, 08:21 PM
Have you seen his TV show? It's outrageous. It's more ridiculous than any Bill O'reilly or Rush Limbaugh show.

Sorry homie but that's IMPOSSIBLE.:biglaugh:

--->
09-23-2006, 08:40 PM
Hugo is a coward because he claims he's "for the poor," coming to the U.S. and trying to give low-cost heating oil to poor Americans in Harlem -- but you go to Venezuela and over 25% of his population lives below the poverty line. And Hugo has more oil reserves than any nation in The Americas. So his people should/could be driving Mercedes Benz's like they do in Qatar. Instead, he'll just spread propaganda about Bush being responsible for Venezuela's poverty while Hugo continues to horde the money for himself and his own interests.



I'm sorry but this sounds like unsubstanciated haterade. Just out of curriosity... what's the (documented) poverty level in the U.S.?

--->
09-23-2006, 08:56 PM
And how exactly is dude a "coward"? I love how anybody who is anti-U.S. is automatically branded a coward.:haha: The deffinition of "coward" means you're a pussy. Chavez obviously has ALOT more balls than the vast majority of other world leaders.

Big Narnia Loc
09-25-2006, 12:30 AM
ouch.

Gunm
09-26-2006, 01:09 AM
Chavez is a fool.....don't talk smack about U.S. imperialism.

We should just bulldoze that country or maybe flatten a few buildings in the capital

--->
09-26-2006, 06:17 AM
Then put down the asians and GET-ER-DOOOOONNNNNNEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HardyHarHar
09-26-2006, 04:22 PM
Welcome to graffiti. All of us graffiti writers are the same way:biglaugh:.

At least Chavez has a better excuse than us. He's the leader of a country... and an integral part of defending what's left of the world from a rouge empire.

At least that's my impression.



.

that's ROGUE, and the US is not a rogue empire, check out Tony Blair.

On Chavez: He is outspoken against the US and I think a lot of people appreciate that, both in America and throughout the world. His domestic policies I cannot comment on because AP news wires are really hard to find/read/care about, but I'm sure he inherited a lot of those problems, and I can say that the US has been a major meddler in Central and South America. Chavez is not merely passing the buck by saying the US is responsible for the despotism in his country.

HardyHarHar
09-26-2006, 04:24 PM
Chavez is a fool.....don't talk smack about U.S. imperialism.

We should just bulldoze that country or maybe flatten a few buildings in the capital

Yeah, seeing as that worked so well in Iraq.

fermentor666
09-26-2006, 07:58 PM
and I can say that the US has been a major meddler in Central and South America. Chavez is not merely passing the buck by saying the US is responsible for the despotism in his country.



This is true.

angelofdeath
09-26-2006, 09:46 PM
chavez calling bush evil is like the pot calling the kettle black.

--->
09-27-2006, 12:05 AM
chavez calling bush evil is like the pot calling the kettle black.

No it's not.

H. Lecter
09-27-2006, 12:43 AM
You people bitch and bitch about the US..
but bottom line, in the reality of power, one must choose the lesser of the evils..

I ask you then...

If not the US, UK and their allies.. then who?


--------------------------------------------------------------------

And that just about sums up my sentiment on 90% of posts in Crossfire..

as for Chavez, and these current events..

I feel he's making a poor copy of Che Guevera..
He speaks in an all to often unprofessional manner,
and twists and distorts facts and events to his favour as much as the pitiful Israeli Media..
Granted, it is nice to hear someone stand up against the tide at any point,
that is the beauty of democratic discussion and the United Nations,
however it was far more commendable and impactful when done in the manner
that other nations have presented it in the recent past,
particularly in the time surrounding the "case for Iraq"...
At this point he is comparable to the kid who tells off the principal that everyone hates..
Gets all his little friends fired-up and clapping around the lunch table for a day or two, and that's about it..the wave crashes and goes back out to sea..

Believe this,
if Chavez and Ahmadinejad were truely looking to off-set the American influence in
a righteous and selfless manner, for the sole interest of defeating the current system and not for thier own promotion and self-interest , they would simply cut off the US oil flow and divert it to China...game over.

John Bolton, the prick fuck that he is, said something of equal strength to Chavez's
recycled 1964 Che speech, "It would have been more credible of a speech if Mr. Chavez gave the same freedoms of speech to his own citizens"
You've got all these assholes who are looking for concessions and credibility from the UN,
yet calling the organization "worthless"... these people who restrict basic freedoms in thier
own nations calling the UN "undemocratic"...
They all want the US to lose it's power?.. Then who do you think they want to replace it..?
Would you like to live in Iran..?

So to them I say this:
If you can't properly manage your own country, in even a moderately democratic and efficent manner,
then who are you to criticize? Much less,
who are you to suggest how this entire world should be managed?...

--->
09-27-2006, 12:53 AM
You have anything to back that up or are you just repeating what you heard on Fox news?
How is he a tyranical dictator? I'm honstly curious, I've heard the opposite.

--->
09-27-2006, 01:06 AM
You have anything to back that up or are you just repeating what you heard on Fox news?
How is he a tyranical dictator? I'm honstly curious, I've heard the opposite.

--->
09-27-2006, 01:08 AM
Post orders all fucked up again.

--->
09-27-2006, 01:09 AM
hmmm.... we have bush who is a horrible president, horrible on liberty and horrible on government restraint, etc etc. and we have chavez who imposed tyranny on his people, has an incredibly horrible domestic agenda, but can give lip service to a good foreign policy.
but in the end he is a communist dictator who is treating his people worse than americans are being treated.

so again, its the pot calling the kettle black. if chavez gave his people liberty, then i'd say.... 'dude your a cool guy and your statement is now justified.'




You have anything to back that up or are you just repeating what you heard on Fox news?
How is Chavez a tyranical dictator? I'm honstly curious, I've heard the opposite.



.

--->
09-27-2006, 01:36 AM
Although my qualms with him are more with his personality and projection, here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Hugo_Chavez) a starter.


Seems like his supporters and plusses outway his critics and drawbacks. Also sounds like the only ones that are pissed and/or being supressed are capitalists with something to lose.

--->
09-27-2006, 01:50 AM
------> why would you think i got this info from fox news?

Alright that was a jab. Just seems to me that all this anti-Chavez propaganda is coming from the Bush camp.

angelofdeath
09-27-2006, 01:55 AM
hmmm.... we have bush who is a horrible president, horrible on liberty and horrible on government restraint, etc etc. and we have chavez who imposed tyranny on his people, has an incredibly horrible domestic agenda, but can give lip service to a good foreign policy.
but in the end he is a communist dictator who is treating his people worse than americans are being treated.

so again, its the pot calling the kettle black. if chavez gave his people liberty, then i'd say.... 'dude your a cool guy and your statement is now justified.'

angelofdeath
09-27-2006, 02:16 AM
"Seems like his supporters and plusses outway his critics and drawbacks. Also sounds like the only ones that are pissed and/or being supressed are capitalists with something to lose."

in my view, you are discredited in your hatred of bush because you are supporting another despot. the only plus chavez has, is that he can talk a good game on foreign policy. but he doesnt practice what he preaches domestically, so fuck him. he is a hypocrite trying to act tough.
it also strikes me as extremely hypocritical to be railing against evil 'capitalists' when if it wasnt for the evil capitalists buying oil, venezula's economy would of collapsed a long time ago. people would of been carrying wheel barrels full of money to buy a loaf of bread like they did in the inflation boom in 1920's germany. you better be praising trade because without it, venezula's socialism would fail rather quickly.

El Mamerro
09-27-2006, 02:19 AM
You have anything to back that up or are you just repeating what you heard on Fox news?
How is he a tyranical dictator? I'm honstly curious, I've heard the opposite.



Although my qualms with him are more with his personality and projection, here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Hugo_Chavez) a starter.

angelofdeath
09-27-2006, 02:45 AM
------> why would you think i got this info from fox news? you did note that i just called bush a horrible president that tramples on liberty didnt you? you are not debating a neo conservative, so a typtical left/right jab isnt going to work...your debating an old right libertarian.

chavez is your typical dictator right before he becomes a big problem. he starts by crushing dissent, shutting down papers, and nationalizing everything. which he is doing now. once this is done, he starts to kill the dissidents, starve the population and all that good stuff. next thing you know, you have 10 milion dead and the world turns a blind eye and many actually just plain deny it happened and give it a free pass.

the economy down there wouldnt exist if it wasnt for the US. atleast chavez is smart enough to realize this, that socialism just cant calculate and he must trade that oil of his to make any money. he does a good job denouncing imperialism and hegemony, but its ironic that he is imposing the tyranny that he denounces on his own people.

russell jones
09-27-2006, 02:48 AM
if chavez gave his people liberty, then i'd say.... 'dude your a cool guy and your statement is now justified.'


I'll have to agree with AOD here. Although, I will say that socialism and liberty are not incompatible, and just because someone is a socialist, does not mean that they cannot have a democratic government. Unfortunately, although Chavez has done many great things for his country, squashing dissidents and the free press is not the way to run a country.

--->
09-27-2006, 04:15 AM
....

fermentor666
09-27-2006, 07:11 AM
You people bitch and bitch about the US..
but bottom line, in the reality of power, one must choose the lesser of the evils..

I ask you then...

If not the US, UK and their allies.. then who?






The lesser of evils thing is true, but that doesn't mean that there aren't things that should be different in the US and UK.

El Mamerro
09-27-2006, 10:23 AM
Seems like his supporters and plusses outway his critics and drawbacks. Also sounds like the only ones that are pissed and/or being supressed are capitalists with something to lose.

I guess you're right. But hey, who cares about human rights when everyone's getting a piece of the pie, right? I'm sure Chavez's police force and National Guard were just doing their honorable jobs smashing down on protesters, killing 14 and wounding 200. I'm sure no old ladies were bitten by dogs, and no kids were maced in the face.

And yeah, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch are just a bunch of angry capitalists.

fermentor666
09-27-2006, 03:44 PM
Dude, don't you know it's cops from the US that go down there and beat up protesters and arrest graffiti vandals in Venezuala? The cops from Venezuala have nothing to do with it, it's all cops from LA, Oakland, and Camden.

Theo A. Huxtable
09-27-2006, 04:40 PM
Hugo Chavez is fat.

--->
09-27-2006, 09:30 PM
...

--->
09-28-2006, 12:14 AM
[QUOTE=El Mamerro;4810274] I'm sure Chavez's police force and National Guard were just doing their honorable jobs smashing down on protesters, killing 14 and wounding 200. I'm sure no old ladies were bitten by dogs, and no kids were maced in the face.
QUOTE]

I must have missed that part. I only skimmed the first page of that link. You know they do the same shit here though. Oh well. Dude still gets props for standing up to Bush and calling him out infront of the rest of the world.

Stereotype V.0002
09-28-2006, 01:26 AM
This thread is awesome, all of the nice youngsters who most likely live in comfort in American suburbia accuse anyone who disagrees with Hugo as being brainwashed by “Fox” and must automatically want to suck off the Dubya. Its strange how people can overlook what Chavez does just because he has an anti-American stance.

Calling him a clown is being gentle IMO. He does have some social action programs but they are all temporary solutions that are more for show than anything else... and barely reach a fraction of his population. He gives long tirades of the stereotypical Castro “everyone must be equal” and “all of my failures are due to the US boogieman” lines, infront of massive posters of himself. Then he spends an astronomical amount of his oil money on arms, Russian fighter jets, etc while the majority of his country is living in barrios and starving. Much in the same way that his government workers are the new upper upper class throwing around money and driving mercedes. He criticizes the US for interventions in the region, while he supports FARC and some Colombian paramilitaries to keep that area unstable. Evo and Lula are much better leaders than Chavez, and they aren’t constantly trying to provoke conflicts that would be catastrophic for the countries but beneficial for their images. Trying to aspire to be the next Bolivar is much better than emulating someone like Castro anyways.

Iron_Lung
09-28-2006, 06:57 AM
Chavez is a fool.....don't talk smack about U.S. imperialism.

We should just bulldoze that country or maybe flatten a few buildings in the capital



you should probably stay in Ch0. this is the most unconstructive comment in this thread.

angelofdeath
09-29-2006, 12:26 PM
all hail the great merciful Chavez!!!



http://www.freeliberal.com/archives/002327.html



On September 20, 2006, Venezuela's president Hugo Chavez spoke to the General Assembly of the United Nations, calling U.S. president George Bush a "devil." Crossing himself, his face revealing a hint of smile, Chavez said, "This table from where I speak still smells like sulfur."

On Trinidad television, a news reporter sought reactions from the people of Venezuela. An elderly woman in Caracas said to the reporter, "Chavez is correct to call the US imperialist, but it was very rude to call Bush a devil. Chavez himself has not been perfect."

Watching the news program, Harry Forsyte, now 86 years old, was astonished to realize that the woman on television was Matilda, who had stolen his money, horse, and cat! He vowed to find her and bring her to justice.

But the next day, while Harry was on a boat to Venezuela, some Cuban army officers who worked for the government of Venezuela knocked on the door of Matilda's house. "You have committed defamation of the character of the president, a violation of the law," they told her.

"I did not mean any offense," she replied.

The Cubans looked at her beautiful green front lawn. "This looks like a golf course," they said.

"No. I play croquet on the lawn, not golf."

"If we say it is a golf course, then that is what it is," said one of the Cuban officers.

"So what?" asked Matilda.

"The law requires all golf courses in Venezuela to be confiscated, and the land given to the poor. You have 24 hours to vacate, otherwise we will put you in prison."

In Caracas, Matilda, even in her age of 86, still operated a dance studio in a rented space. Harry came to her office. "You thief!" he exclaimed. "You ruined my life. Give me back my money!"

"I'm sorry, but I cannot," she replied. "I bought a house and land with the money, and now, it has just been confiscated."

"You will pay with your life!" he shouted. "Waltzing Matilda will now do the Dance of Death!" He pulled out a gun, and shot her three times. She lay dead on the floor.

russell jones
09-29-2006, 02:55 PM
Is that story a joke? It's written like a fairy tale rather than a news story.

crews
09-29-2006, 03:25 PM
Is that story a joke? It's written like a fairy tale rather than a news story.

lmfao...:D

fermentor666
09-30-2006, 05:35 AM
Is that story a joke? It's written like a fairy tale rather than a news story.


Obviously a joke.

angelofdeath
09-30-2006, 10:46 AM
note the address: the free liberal....... but its not a news story.

russell jones
09-30-2006, 03:08 PM
It's cute though.