an inconvenient truth!...

[krush]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvnMKBDjhnU

see this movie if you care about anything!

[krush]

it's actually 7 degrees right now where i am in canada and iuts usually full fledged snow.. a couple feet deep atleast..



EVERYBODY MUST SEE THIS MOVIE!

[krush]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61y6EoYFSzA

[krush]

the entire thing is not on you tube :[

[krush]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2078944470709189270


just the tip.

[rushawn wuan]

interesting

[vypwhorz]

bumpin for the full thing...its prob on bittorrent but im hopin for a youtube entry

[buckfiftyexports]

Its on Demonoid.

[Juan Fuentes]

the movie about MAN MADE global warming,nice fear propaganda or good documentary,it depends on who u are,i personaly dont trust politicians and i recheck the info to see if its true,global warming is serious,our lives are in the line,now is it all that true?is man causing it?
there is a video done to "debunk" this "MAN MADE" global warming.

The Great Global Warming Swindle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Wr1hcIp2U
75 minutes


very interesting.

thanks for your time.

peace

[lord_casek]

you guys who believe al gore cares anything about anything are fucking wankers.

al gores power bill each month for his MANSION is over $20k
he also invested in a mine that releases a ton of harmful chems
into tennessee air each month.

do some research. this guy doesn't care about saving the earth for the people, he cares about saving the earth so the rich can eat off of it.

[lord_casek]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=prnw.20070319.DCM015&show_article=1
al gore challenged to debate.

[russell jones]

I think this says it all... "Monckton, a former policy adviser to Margaret Thatcher..." Where did you get the info about Gore's power bill?

[DoneTWS]

Fuck Al Gore.

[lord_casek]

I think this says it all... "Monckton, a former policy adviser to Margaret Thatcher..." Where did you get the info about Gore's power bill?

i live in tennessee. it's all over the news, along with the zinc mining shit.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659

i was wrong, $30,000 a month utility bill.

oops

[lord_casek]

Monckton, a former policy adviser to Margaret Thatcher during her years as
Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, said, "A careful study of the
substantial corpus of peer-reviewed science reveals that Mr. Gore's film, An
Inconvenient Truth, is a foofaraw of pseudo-science, exaggerations, and
errors, now being peddled to innocent schoolchildren worldwide."

[Larry Pubes]

see though, i kinda think that despite gore/the movie's flaws, the general message that we need to chill the fuck out in the face of the overwhelming power of the fossil fuels industry balances out any bullshit he may be peddling. gore is a mega douchebag, but the fact remains that now more than ever...due to his film..people are actually thinking about the issue on a much wider scale, and that is a very good thing. i suspect that many of the people who have had their interest sparked by the film are educated enough to travel their own path to what's correct and rational, despite the finer points of gore's thesis.

[lord_casek]

i understand. just the icecaps melting alone should have done what the film is doing.
let's all hope that what you say rings to be true longer than a couple of years.

[MY ROTTING LIVER]

I can't defend the mansion thing BUT, he does participate in "offsets" which I know are bullshit because many can not be guaranteed. He does participate in many environmentally positive programs, but he is a yuppie and thus his money might make change but his actions show he doesn't stand by the sacrifice he calls for. That said you all, from both sides should watch An Unreasonable Man, the movie about Ralph Nader - you will find yourself thinking harder about the democrats.

A side note regarding hypocrisy:

This morning on NPR Tom Delay said the Democrats had been involved in the "politics of personal destruction" toward him. The interviewer asked "do you feel it is ironic that you are using a term coined by Clinton, especially after you helped impeach him?" Delay responded in so many words that Clinton was a criminal, but he was a victim of a conspiracy.

Gore is old politics, Hillary Clinton is old politics, the ice caps melting because people seem to actually like fuel emissions is the result of bad parenting and religious wackos.

/Drunk and bored

[serum]

i think gore could just have a really sweet hydro set up.

[Juan Fuentes]

people are thinking,knowing,facing the reality of us humans waste and trash too much,the global warming shouldnt be a problem if we all do a little,i know some people who saw the movie and are "concern" yet have v8 trucks and they are not for working matters.

the large amount of people cause huge amounts of trash everyday,i say if we start having less kids we can change things,more space and supplies for the next generations,of course they are some fighting for global domination like "religious" men or wealthy families who have more than 4 kids,what a crime in this times...

peace

[russell jones]

I can't defend the mansion thing BUT, he does participate in "offsets" which I know are bullshit because many can not be guaranteed. He does participate in many environmentally positive programs, but he is a yuppie and thus his money might make change but his actions show he doesn't stand by the sacrifice he calls for. That said you all, from both sides should watch An Unreasonable Man, the movie about Ralph Nader - you will find yourself thinking harder about the democrats.

A side note regarding hypocrisy:

This morning on NPR Tom Delay said the Democrats had been involved in the "politics of personal destruction" toward him. The interviewer asked "do you feel it is ironic that you are using a term coined by Clinton, especially after you helped impeach him?" Delay responded in so many words that Clinton was a criminal, but he was a victim of a conspiracy.

Gore is old politics, Hillary Clinton is old politics, the ice caps melting because people seem to actually like fuel emissions is the result of bad parenting and religious wackos.

/Drunk and bored


Unreasonable man should be shown in schools. It will teach kids more about our political system than their books.

By the way, attacking Al Gore personally, even if it is true, doesn't change the facts of the movie. There is a general scientific consensus that global warming is happening, and is caused by human behavior. Mentioning Al Gore's behavior to disapprove his argument is called ad hominem and is not a valid argument unless you were arguing the hypocrisies of Al Gore.

[the.crooked]

russel, I have to say I appreciate your presence on the boards a lot. I try to stress that an attack "to man" is a fallacious argument all the time, but few seem to get that.

Either way, yeah, his message is no less relevant given his actions.

[Larry Pubes]

is there an echo in here?

[Dawood]

there's always a personal and collective responsibility for any set of actions. Anybody who says we (humans) don't have the ability to affect the planet in this way is fooling themself.

[lord_casek]

we are getting closer to the sun for the next 7 years....

[russell jones]

russel, I have to say I appreciate your presence on the boards a lot. I try to stress that an attack "to man" is a fallacious argument all the time, but few seem to get that.

Either way, yeah, his message is no less relevant given his actions.


Likewise crook. I've been getting interested in philosophy lately and your experience shared in the board has been very helpful. I've always been interested in philosophy of course, but haven't done much reading outside of art history for a little bit...

[russell jones]

there's always a personal and collective responsibility for any set of actions. Anybody who says we (humans) don't have the ability to affect the planet in this way is fooling themself.

I like that thought Dawood. It's so true on so many levels. Is there a quote from the Qu'ran that expresses that idea of shared responsibility? The book is always so poetic...

[lord_casek]

the great global warming swindle
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831&q=The+Great+Global+Warming+Swindle

[BRUCE_WILLIS]

fuck al gore, i think that i, BRUCE WILLIS should be in charge of the earth , period:lol: :lol:

[BRUCE_WILLIS]

just think what it would be like man :

[Issac Brock]

Are you guys retarded? Gore has been trying to stop the destruction of the enviornment for over 30 years. He's not trying to get rich.

These ridiculous statements that "Global warming is a hoax" or "propoganda" is the same shit that happened when cigarettes were finally being exposed for how harmful they are. All that you have to do is pretend that theres some doubt, make some false accusations, and you're good to go, people are going around like idiots pretending that there's some feisable evidence that global warming isn't being caused by humans. Fucking retards. You all should kill yourself, it will save oxygen for the people who can actually think.

[Issac Brock]

"Global Warming caused by humans, US Admits" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2023835.stm)

[yumone]

a few people on this board just like to deny absolutely everything and cry conspiracy at any idea that reaches mainstream level. No doubt 2 years ago they would have all been on the global warming tip because it was still denied by the mainstream.

[lord_casek]

isaac: first of all, al gore is rich. second, he invests in a local zinc mine that puts pollutants into the air every second of every day its up and running. learn about it. it's a big issue here (tennessee).

second: the earth is in a 7 year cycle where it is a bit closer to the sun. that is, in turn, warming the earth. no doubt the poles are melting, but how many times has that happened in earths history? the magnetic poles are also changing. you gonna blame that on mankind, too?

sure, we drop pollutants into the air, but the ozone hole is shrinking. that's a good thing. the growing season for farmers is going to double during the 7 year cycle. there's alot more i could tell you, but you're a smart person. why don't you get your hippy ass out and read some mroe books. you are only in highschool.

[MoeLarryCurly]

...

[MoeLarryCurly]

Friend Claims Gore Hid "Pot Head" Status (http://www.12ozprophet.com/forum/Friend%20Claims%20Gore%20Hid%20%22Pot%20Head%22%20 Status)

casek, here's something for you, a read you might enjoy, to add to dragging al gore's name through the mud.

http://www.opinionet.com/article.php?id=456

[Juan Fuentes]

a few people on this board just like to deny absolutely everything and cry conspiracy at any idea that reaches mainstream level. No doubt 2 years ago they would have all been on the global warming tip because it was still denied by the mainstream.

that is true,i constantly look into my SELF to see if that happens,in some cases it happens to some people , who from here,dont know? i cant judge like that,dont know what their hearts feel.

the fact that this human made global warming comes in the form of a movie shown in theathers and done by a politician makes it hard to believe for some who know about how corrupt governments are nowadays...checking later evidence,the opposite of it,it actually makes sense.

peace

[lord_casek]

Friend Claims Gore Hid "Pot Head" Status (http://www.12ozprophet.com/forum/Friend%20Claims%20Gore%20Hid%20%22Pot%20Head%22%20 Status)

casek, here's something for you, a read you might enjoy, to add to dragging al gore's name through the mud.

http://www.opinionet.com/article.php?id=456

pot doesn't really bother me.

there are some things in life that are larger issues than someone getting stoned.

what does bother me is when the elite act as though they are saving the planet for "us". that is quite the contrary.

[MY ROTTING LIVER]

sure, we drop pollutants into the air, but the ozone hole is shrinking.

The hole in the ozone is not the same thing as global warming (though they do have connections). What they do illustrate though is that mans actions can have a clear negative impact on the environment.

[lord_casek]

The hole in the ozone is not the same thing as global warming (though they do have connections). What they do illustrate though is that mans actions can have a clear negative impact on the environment.



yes, they can. what i'm trying to tell you guys is that al gore and the rest of these elitist assholes aren't doing this for you, me, or anyone else that they see (as ted turner put it) as useless eaters.

[the.crooked]

is there an echo in here?

...

[Issac Brock]

isaac: first of all, al gore is rich. second, he invests in a local zinc mine that puts pollutants into the air every second of every day its up and running. learn about it. it's a big issue here (tennessee).

second: the earth is in a 7 year cycle where it is a bit closer to the sun. that is, in turn, warming the earth. no doubt the poles are melting, but how many times has that happened in earths history? the magnetic poles are also changing. you gonna blame that on mankind, too?

sure, we drop pollutants into the air, but the ozone hole is shrinking. that's a good thing. the growing season for farmers is going to double during the 7 year cycle. there's alot more i could tell you, but you're a smart person. why don't you get your hippy ass out and read some mroe books. you are only in highschool.

What, you work in IT or something and think you're so far above me? I'm in college, but I wasn't making any self riteous claims. Seriously, where do you work, and why does that make you more qualified to talk about anything than I am?

Anyway, heating and cooling periods, yeah they happen. But not like this. This is far beyond anything that has ever happened before. If you're so tied to the "Fuck al gore" band wagon, that's just really sad. I don't see why you would be against new sources of power. How is it possible that what's going on isnt bad for the enviornment? How fucking oblivious are you man?

[Issac Brock]

"Global Warming a bigger threat to poor" (http://www.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,12374,1331323,00.html)

Isn't it sad that the first countries to get wiped out due to the catostrophic effects of this are going to be the ones that contributed the least to it? Rich, white, lobbyist dickheads will be safe (only for a while) while poor countries will suffer. But its allright, the way we're headed, everyone will die pretty soon (within the century).

[Issac Brock]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/28/AR2006012801021.htmlFrom Debate on climate shifts to issue of irreparable change: (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/28/AR2006012801021.html)

"Princeton University geosciences and international affairs professor Michael Oppenheimer, who also advises the advocacy group Environmental Defense, said one of the greatest dangers lies in the disintegration of the Greenland or West Antarctic ice sheets, which together hold about 20 percent of the fresh water on the planet. If either of the two sheets disintegrates, sea level could rise nearly 20 feet in the course of a couple of centuries, swamping the southern third of Florida and Manhattan up to the middle of Greenwich Village."

"James E. Hansen, who directs NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies, last week confirmed that 2005 was the warmest year on record, surpassing 1998. Earth's average temperature has risen nearly 1 degree Fahrenheit over the past 30 years, he noted, and another increase of about 4 degrees over the next century would "imply changes that constitute practically a different planet.""

[Issac Brock]

from Global Warming Heats Up: (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1176980,00.html)

"And it's not just scientists who are taking notice. Even as nature crosses its tipping points, the public seems to have reached its own. For years, popular skepticism about climatological science stood in the way of addressing the problem, but the naysayers--many of whom were on the payroll of energy companies--have become an increasingly marginalized breed."

^^What I was talking about with cigarette companies. Doubt created by fucking lobbyists for gigantic corporations like energy companies, or in the 70s, by cigarette companies.

"Of the 20 hottest years on record, 19 occurred in the 1980s or later. According to NASA scientists, 2005 was one of the hottest years in more than a century."

NO NO NO, ITS JUST HEATING AND COOLING PERIODS, AND NASA IS JOINING AL GORE IN THE QUEST TO GET RICH!!

I have a question for the imbesciles. When Al gore came before congress in the 70s asking for them to prevent disasters caused by global warming, was that part of his master plan to become even richer by making a movie in 2006?

[Issac Brock]

allright Casek, you've said over and over "Do some research," and made multiple vague, ridiculous statements that are left without evidence. I've posted facts from reputable news sources with multiple sources for their conclusions, and could go all day doing so. Its pretty hard to find any conclusive evidence on global warming not hurting the atmosphere. I want you to make a (probably laughable) attempt at proving the global warming is not destroying the planet, which means not telling me why you don't like al gore, but why we (The US) shouldn't take action to try to remedy the situation.

[Issac Brock]

And one last statement, you said "No doubt the poles are melting, but how many times has that happened?"

Within the next few years the poles will have melted so much that sea level could raise 20 feet. (This statement is supported by I think 2 out of 3 of the articles I posted above). That's never happened, because that would be in our history books as a disaster that wiped out millions of people. That's never happened man, but it will if nothing is done.

[lord_casek]

What, you work in IT or something and think you're so far above me? I'm in college, but I wasn't making any self riteous claims. Seriously, where do you work, and why does that make you more qualified to talk about anything than I am?

Anyway, heating and cooling periods, yeah they happen. But not like this. This is far beyond anything that has ever happened before. If you're so tied to the "Fuck al gore" band wagon, that's just really sad. I don't see why you would be against new sources of power. How is it possible that what's going on isnt bad for the enviornment? How fucking oblivious are you man?


i'm quite a bit older. not saying age has anything to do with wisdom, but experience does.
where do i work? i'm self employed. successfully self employed.
why does it make me more qualified? it doesn't. i'm no scholar of any importance. my line of work is completely separate from my world views.

yes, heating and cooling periods do happen like this. ice age, etc. at one time, britain was quite subtropical, alabama was oceanfront property, and the north pole had plenty of foliage. it does happen like this. you're just young and into the whole "save the earth" thing.

i'm completely cool with saving the earth. there's plenty of damage we are doing, what i am saying is that al gore and the rest of the elitists do not care about saving the earth for the same reasons you and i might care about it. these people are on a different level than you or i could even imagine. they don't give two fucks about the earth because of our future generations. we are not the blue bloods. we are "useless eaters". i'm not making that up about ted turner referring to us as just that. he's not the only one who believes such is true.

how is what we are doing not bad for the environment? it is. we are making an impact, just not the one that al gore would lead you to believe we are making. do you support greenpeace? that's pretty much a terrorist org. as defined by their actions. a real terrorist organization. not a fake one living in some cave.

here's an article for you to read

Media Ignore Al Gore’s Financial Ties to Global Warming

http://newsbusters.org/node/11149

[lord_casek]

And one last statement, you said "No doubt the poles are melting, but how many times has that happened?"

Within the next few years the poles will have melted so much that sea level could raise 20 feet. (This statement is supported by I think 2 out of 3 of the articles I posted above). That's never happened, because that would be in our history books as a disaster that wiped out millions of people. That's never happened man, but it will if nothing is done.


i think i already answered to this in my statement about alabama (and the rest of the southern states) being oceanfront property at one time (there were no people here)

[Issac Brock]

i'm quite a bit older. not saying age has anything to do with wisdom, but experience does.
where do i work? i'm self employed. successfully self employed.
why does it make me more qualified? it doesn't. i'm no scholar of any importance. my line of work is completely separate from my world views.

yes, heating and cooling periods do happen like this. ice age, etc. at one time, britain was quite subtropical, alabama was oceanfront property, and the north pole had plenty of foliage. it does happen like this. you're just young and into the whole "save the earth" thing.

i'm completely cool with saving the earth. there's plenty of damage we are doing, what i am saying is that al gore and the rest of the elitists do not care about saving the earth for the same reasons you and i might care about it. these people are on a different level than you or i could even imagine. they don't give two fucks about the earth because of our future generations. we are not the blue bloods. we are "useless eaters". i'm not making that up about ted turner referring to us as just that. he's not the only one who believes such is true.

how is what we are doing not bad for the environment? it is. we are making an impact, just not the one that al gore would lead you to believe we are making. do you support greenpeace? that's pretty much a terrorist org. as defined by their actions. a real terrorist organization. not a fake one living in some cave.

here's an article for you to read

Media Ignore Al Gore’s Financial Ties to Global Warming

http://newsbusters.org/node/11149

I told you I don't give a shit about al gore. He doesn't really have anything to do with the fact that the world will end pretty soon. I'm not "young and into the whole save the world thing." I'm generally apathetic about politics and other bullshit dumb kids rant about. This is an exception because the evidence is overwhelming (note my example, multiple reputable sources to your no name link directly attacking al gore, not theories of global warming's impact on the earth) and people like you are being retarded about it. Al gore is not the only one that says that global warming is having catostrophic effects on the earth, in fact, most of the people that do say that are a lot more qualified and smarter than al gore is. Go read my links, then come back to the thread and say something about it. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure everything you've said in this thread has been negated.

[lord_casek]

the world is ending, huh? for you or the whole of the populus?


The truth about global warming - it's the Sun that's to blame
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/18/wsun18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/18/ixnewstop.html


the little ice age in europe
http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/lia/little_ice_age.html


MAN-MADE GLOBAL WARMING
IS POLITICS NOT SCIENCE
http://www.etherzone.com/2007/bend021307.shtml


http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/npo/277645454.html
here's an add for lobbyists for the fascists at greenpeace.
pushing global warming as if it is something new to our planet.


Global Warming: The Cold, Hard Facts?
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/global-warming020507.htm





Weather Channel Climate Expert Calls for Decertifying Global Warming Skeptics
January 17, 2007

Posted by Marc Morano 202-224-5762 [email protected] (8:50pm ET)

The Weather Channel’s most prominent climatologist is advocating that broadcast meteorologists be stripped of their scientific certification if they express skepticism about predictions of manmade catastrophic global warming. This latest call to silence skeptics follows a year (2006) in which skeptics were compared to "Holocaust Deniers" and Nuremberg-style war crimes trials were advocated by several climate alarmists.

The Weather Channel’s (TWC) Heidi Cullen, who hosts the weekly global warming program "The Climate Code," is advocating that the American Meteorological Society (AMS) revoke their "Seal of Approval" for any television weatherman who expresses skepticism that human activity is creating a climate catastrophe.

"If a meteorologist can't speak to the fundamental science of climate change, then maybe the AMS shouldn't give them a Seal of Approval. Clearly, the AMS doesn't agree that global warming can be blamed on cyclical weather patterns," Cullen wrote in her December 21 weblog on the Weather Channel Website. This latest call to silence skeptics of manmade global warming has been the subject of discussion at the annual American Meteorological Society’s Annual conference in San Antonio Texas this week.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=32abc0b0-802a-23ad-440a-88824bb8e528




“The Weather Channel” Mess


January 18, 2007, 5:45 pm | James Spann | Op/Ed

Well, well. Some “climate expert” on “The Weather Channel” wants to take away AMS certification from those of us who believe the recent “global warming” is a natural process. So much for “tolerance”, huh?

I have been in operational meteorology since 1978, and I know dozens and dozens of broadcast meteorologists all over the country. Our big job: look at a large volume of raw data and come up with a public weather forecast for the next seven days. I do not know of a single TV meteorologist who buys into the man-made global warming hype. I know there must be a few out there, but I can’t find them. Here are the basic facts you need to know:

*Billions of dollars of grant money is flowing into the pockets of those on the man-made global warming bandwagon. No man-made global warming, the money dries up. This is big money, make no mistake about it. Always follow the money trail and it tells a story. Even the lady at “The Weather Channel” probably gets paid good money for a prime time show on climate change. No man-made global warming, no show, and no salary. Nothing wrong with making money at all, but when money becomes the motivation for a scientific conclusion, then we have a problem. For many, global warming is a big cash grab.

*The climate of this planet has been changing since God put the planet here. It will always change, and the warming in the last 10 years is not much difference than the warming we saw in the 1930s and other decades. And, lets not forget we are at the end of the ice age in which ice covered most of North America and Northern Europe.

If you don’t like to listen to me, find another meteorologist with no tie to grant money for research on the subject. I would not listen to anyone that is a politician, a journalist, or someone in science who is generating revenue from this issue.




http://www.al.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/news/1169288539262650.xml&coll=2
Spann spawns cyber-storm

TV meteorologist disputes human role in global warming

Saturday, January 20, 2007

BOB CARLTON
News staff writer

James Spann is used to covering storms.

Not being in the middle of one.

But the ABC 33/40 meteorologist finds himself at the center of the global-warming controversy after the Internet site The Drudge Report posted a link to comments Spann made on his weather blog Thursday night.

"Everything kind of exploded," Spann said Friday. "Writing stuff like that is something I always do, but when Drudge links to it, it just brings the world to you all of a sudden."

All that controversy is over a cyber-disagreement Spann has with a climate scientist from The Weather Channel.

In essence, Spann does not believe that human activity is contributing to global warming and contends that "billions of dollars of grant money is flowing into the pockets of those on the man-made global warming bandwagon." Spann received so much traffic on his site that it was temporarily shut down Thursday night, he said.

"We have never been shut down with traffic before," he said. "During tornado outbreaks and hurricanes, we've been close, but we've never had a total shutdown or crash like this. It's kind of unprecedented."

[Issac Brock]

Most of your articles are not from credible sources, or they are editorial articles, with their only source being themselves or one other person. However, I'll respond to some of them.

"Dr Solanki said that the brighter Sun and higher levels of "greenhouse gases", such as carbon dioxide, both contributed to the change in the Earth's temperature but it was impossible to say which had the greater impact."

That's from your article. It acknowledges that global warming exists and that the increase in co2 is contributing to it, so why is it a bad thing to push co2 reduction?

And ironically, your article entitled "The cold, hard facts," yields no facts, and only the opinion of one climatologist. The shit you present is just enough to create doubt and allow lobbyists to continue destroying the enviornment, just like with a little doubt introduced, enough people believed that cigarrettes aren't harmful to your health.

[Issac Brock]

I also noticed that the "Canada Free Press" site was pretty shitty looking and had about a hundred ads, so I looked into whether I should consider that a credible source. Well, according to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Free_Press), the answer is no. Read the part about their conspiracy theories.

[lord_casek]

i posted several credible sources.

[saraday]

edit:....delete post

[fermentor666]

here's an article for you to read

Media Ignore Al Gore’s Financial Ties to Global Warming

http://newsbusters.org/node/11149



That article is trash, and you should know that. Global warming is not "junk science", the guy who wrote that article is a fucking moron and should get punched in the face.

[lord_casek]

That article is trash, and you should know that. Global warming is not "junk science", the guy who wrote that article is a fucking moron and should get punched in the face.


fermentor, i only posted that one article because i can't find it in the local media's sites. it's really all over the news here. his investments in mines that pollute, his power bills, etc.

[lord_casek]

this quote, along with several others are credible


[H]ow Gore buys his "carbon offsets," as revealed by The Tennessean raises serious questions. According to the newspaper's report, Gore buys his carbon offsets through Generation Investment Management:

Gore helped found Generation Investment Management, through which he and others pay for offsets. The firm invests the money in solar, wind and other projects that reduce energy consumption around the globe...

Gore is chairman of the firm and, presumably, draws an income or will make money as its investments prosper. In other words, he "buys" his "carbon offsets" from himself, through a transaction designed to boost his own investments and return a profit to himself. To be blunt, Gore doesn't buy "carbon offsets" through Generation Investment Management - he buys stocks.

[lord_casek]

Officials Urged to Grill Al Gore About His Rich-Get-Warmer, Poor-Get-Colder Global Warming Offset Proposals
http://www.earnedmedia.org/ncppr0321.htm


al gore preaches to the choir
http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20070320-091250-3428r.htm




Hysteria over global warming not necessary
http://www.pntonline.com/engine.pl?station=portales&template=fnmStoryFull.html&id=10214

[fermentor666]

I read that and so what? The guy made investments. It's completely different than the Halliburton/Iraq connection that article mentions. He won't profit off the misery of others, instead he will profit from pollution-reducing industries. I fail to see how that immediately constitutes conspiracy, especially if the article is right and calls it "junk science". Junk science would be something along the lines of someone saying the moon is made out of cheese, then making a documentary about all the cheese we could get from the moon, and then investing all his money in cheese companies and hoping the public will buy into his scheme. Global warming is not junk science.

[lord_casek]

I read that and so what? The guy made investments. It's completely different than the Halliburton/Iraq connection that article mentions. He won't profit off the misery of others, instead he will profit from pollution-reducing industries. I fail to see how that immediately constitutes conspiracy, especially if the article is right and calls it "junk science". Junk science would be something along the lines of someone saying the moon is made out of cheese, then making a documentary about all the cheese we could get from the moon, and then investing all his money in cheese companies and hoping the public will buy into his scheme. Global warming is not junk science.


no, he invests in a zinc mine and a uranium mine. both of which absolutely pollute the environment.

of course global warming isn't junk science. we are closer to the sun. of course our pollutants have hurt the earth. absolutely. but when you get closer to the sun, there are things you will notice happening, such as the poles melting, oceans heating, etc.

[lord_casek]

6th graders prove al gore is wrong.


http://www.longmontfyi.com/Local-Story.asp?ID=15357

Global warming on trial
Sixth-graders decide that humans aren’t to blame

By Ben Ready
The Daily Times-Call

LONGMONT — Humans don’t cause global warming, a jury of sixth graders at Trail Ridge Middle School concluded Thursday after hearing opposing arguments from their peers.

“They’re pretty young for this kind of thinking. They did great,” paleontology teacher Ken Poppe said after the 40-minute “trial” in his classroom.

With Earth’s warming accepted as a tenet, pre-teen “lawyers” and “scientists” debated whether humans have caused it.

Eleven jurors listened intently as prosecutors and defendants flashed contradictory graphs tracking global temperatures, carbon dioxide levels, polar ice cap statistics, volcanic activity and sea surface temperatures — all of which were found Wednesday in the school’s computer lab.

“The earth has warmed and cooled over many years. If it’s caused by CO2, why haven’t the charts shot up?” Poppe’s son and lead prosecutor Caleb argued during a rebuttal.

In a climax that sent half the class to its feet and forced the judge to call for order, opponent Monique Nem slapped a contradictory graph onto the prosecution’s table.

“We’ve proven you wrong! The CO2 levels have shot up,” she said.

The jury responded more warmly, however, to Caleb Poppe’s response: The graphic cited a Hawaiian source; Hawaii has volcanoes; volcanoes emit CO2.

In closing arguments, Alexia Hegy said global temperatures actually decreased in the 1960’s, while the global population rose. Humans cannot be at fault, she concluded.

With the final word, defense attorney Sarah Steed countered: “It all comes back to us, the people — not the sun, not the weather. We need to turn off lights when we don’t need them. Bikes can work. The environment can be richer.”

Seven of 11 jurors decided humans are not to blame, but everyone agreed classroom debates make for fun learning.

“It was a hard decision, because both sides made good points,” said student Samantha Roberts.

Ken Poppe said he let students choose which side of the debate to argue. Poppe personally believes global warming is cyclical and not affected by humans, while his Colorado State University student aide David Richards believes the opposite. Both, however, said they presented both sides equally to the students leading up to Thursday’s debate.

“What I think is not the issue. It’s what the students dig up and how they present the case,” Poppe said.

Only one parent questioned Poppe’s decision to hold a global warming debate. That mother expected him to present Al Gore’s global warming movie “An Inconvenient Truth” as indisputable facts, Poppe said. After he explained his neutrality in the classroom, the mom allowed her child to participate in the debate, he said.

“You don’t understand someone’s position until you can argue it to their satisfaction,” Poppe said, quoting a famous physicist. “I don’t believe in Darwinism either, but I can argue it as well as any Darwinist.”



What Al Gore Really Wants
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/03/what_al_gore_really_wants.html


Heartland President Debunks Global Warming Myths

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=20810

[Issac Brock]

Dude, all you do is trash al gore. I don't give a shit about al gore. I give a shit about the fact that the governmental fatcats running the earth are destroying it. I'm not here to debate whether or not al gore is a good person.

[Issac Brock]

You do the same shit with greenpeace. "DO YOU SUPPORT GREENPEACE? I CANT ARGUE THAT GLOBAL WARMING ISNT DESTROYING THE ENVIORNMENT, BUT I CAN ARGUE THAT GREENPEACE SUCKS!!"

[Issac Brock]

Here's a fun article for you all that say oh, this happens all the time.

"Co2 levels highest in 650,000 years." (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4467420.stm)

[Larry Pubes]

i'm polluting the air in my house today bigtime, ugh...

[russell jones]

i'm polluting the air in my house today bigtime, ugh...

Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas. Is it getting warming in there? Better light a match dude.

[Larry Pubes]

if i light a match i'm gonna look like this dude:


http://www.nightshadebooks.com/discus/messages/233/2304.gif

[Dawood]

I like that thought Dawood. It's so true on so many levels. Is there a quote from the Qu'ran that expresses that idea of shared responsibility? The book is always so poetic...

And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allâh (i.e. this Qur'ân), and be not divided among yourselves, and remember Allâh's Favour on you, for you were enemies one to another but He joined your hearts together, so that, by His Grace, you became brethren (in Islâmic Faith), and you were on the brink of a pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus Allâh makes His Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.,) clear to you, that you may be guided. (Aali Imran 3:103)

this is the closest thing I could find to a collective responsibility.

[leftwinghack]

gay marrage +
global warming +
911 inside job+
=
american lliberals are insane as fuck
go kill some babies while
your at it
51606

[fermentor666]

War didn't end communism.

[yumone]

yeah i was about to say.

ANd goddamn that is soem trashy journalism you jsut posted casek. I like it how you're always on the "the media is putting subliminal messages in your head" tip and then you post some crappy article thats supposed to make people think "well duh if even 6th graders can see global warming isnt true then i'd be an idiot to think that it's man's fault".

[lord_casek]

yeah i was about to say.

ANd goddamn that is soem trashy journalism you jsut posted casek. I like it how you're always on the "the media is putting subliminal messages in your head" tip and then you post some crappy article thats supposed to make people think "well duh if even 6th graders can see global warming isnt true then i'd be an idiot to think that it's man's fault".

and you could cite some real journalism? or are you just on the "attack dog" tip?
i like how you fuckers will cite some shit like al gore's movie and then try to back it up with some journalism that is obviously biased in his favor, but when you see opposition, you instantly attack it.

for the last time, we are in a seven year cycle. the sun is alot closer than it has been in a while.

the end.

[the.crooked]

casek stop citing journalism and cite primary articles.

there has been tons of reports in the last couple years coming out about this. end the bitching and look for the actual science. it is there.

[Dawood]

you'd have to be a fool to beleive there are no consequeces to your actions. (as an example) Do you think AIDS just popped up of nowhere? It surfaced because of peoples promiscuity and iv drug use. those things created the right conditions for the virus to be transmitted and BAM, you have an epedemic, look at countries where drug use and promiscuity is not a prevelant and I'll GUARANTEE Aids is not a problem there, or very little. I said that to say that gloal warming is in fact a reality that as our consumption of raw materials and expulsion of waste continues it will no doubt have and adverse affect on our enviroment. You can't drop 3000 dueces in your toilet a day and expect for it not to smell like a 1000 miles of shit.

[yumone]

I have never posted any Al Gore shiz or anyhtign backing Al Gore up sorry buddy.

yeha actually i do get on the 'attack dog' tip with you quite a lot. i'm sorry if it seems like im being a dickhead (i'm not meaning to) i just see contradiction in a lot of the stuff you say on here (probably just because you post heaps so i notice it more than in others)

[lord_casek]

I have never posted any Al Gore shiz or anyhtign backing Al Gore up sorry buddy.

yeha actually i do get on the 'attack dog' tip with you quite a lot. i'm sorry if it seems like im being a dickhead (i'm not meaning to) i just see contradiction in a lot of the stuff you say on here (probably just because you post heaps so i notice it more than in others)

no doubt. we're all friends here.

the al gore comment wasn't directed at you, the attack dog thing was. s'all good yum.

[Issac Brock]

Dude where is the evidence that the sun is just closer than it has been? What the hell are you talking about? And we don't just attack anything that is in opposition, I for one attack shit that you post because none of it is credible at all. They're editorials or just retarded.

[lord_casek]

Dude where is the evidence that the sun is just closer than it has been? What the hell are you talking about? And we don't just attack anything that is in opposition, I for one attack shit that you post because none of it is credible at all. They're editorials or just retarded.


it's science



http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/ci/31/i11/html/11vp.html

[leftwinghack]

your liberal bias is alive and well

[Larry Pubes]

..while your handle of retard-right-rhetoric is also quite impressive. HI-OOOOOO!

[lord_casek]

your liberal bias is alive and well

i would pose this to you, you are not a patriot. when you stop questioning your govt's actions, you are no longer a patriot. even if i'm wrong, even if i'm way off, atleast i am questioning what is goig on in my government. atleast i have concern for the things i am told and don't follow blindly like a sheep to slaughter.

[leftwinghack]

hater is all i see
i disagree we are the government
do you even vote ????
question yourself and your hatefull politics

[lord_casek]

yes, i vote. but like it was once said, "if voting changed anything at all, it would be illegal".

we should be the government, but we are no longer. we are controlled by the military industrial complex. fdr warned us about it, and no one listened.

i don't have to question myself and my politics. i do what i do with purity in my heart. i am concerned about our nation. i make calls, write letters, try to inform people on such things as the north american union. what do you do? vote and post on message boards? you deliver the hate talk, not i.

[leftwinghack]

global warming is a scam

[Dawood]

yes, i vote. but like it was once said, "if voting changed anything at all, it would be illegal".

.

that's my quote, gimme my props, son!

[HATEBREEDERS]

matt groenings part in it sucked.

[lord_casek]

props to dawood, but i heard it somewhere else recently.

[Issac Brock]

global warming is a scam

....for what gain?

[russell jones]

for the last time, we are in a seven year cycle. the sun is alot closer than it has been in a while.

the end.


That's pretty amazing. You have refuted decades of work by thousands of scientists in dozens of disciplines in one sentence. Be sure to be in Sweden to pick up your Nobel prize.

[leftwinghack]

....for what gain?

government control......socialism
communism

[russell jones]

This article in the Times makes that argument that poor countries, despite contributing the least to global warming, bear the brunt of its effects. It's pretty terrible that these countries have to pay for our excess.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/science/earth/01climate.html?ei=5089&en=6c687d65add0bfba&ex=1333080000&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

[Stereotype V.0002]

even if i'm wrong, even if i'm way off,

Cracks arise in the fortifications surrounding the madness of Carthage. The overpowering force of sanity's legions shall soon consume all. Carthago delenda est.
:scrambled: :lol: :rolleyes: :beat: :chicken: :innocent: :five-o:

[lord_casek]

Cracks arise in the fortifications surrounding the madness of Carthage. The overpowering force of sanity's legions shall soon consume all. Carthago delenda est.
:scrambled: :lol: :rolleyes: :beat: :chicken: :innocent: :five-o:



twist my words again

[Dawood]

oh, no stereotype is back!!!!.(screaming women in the background)... Dun, dun , dun duuuuuuun. (crazy horror movie effect)

[lykeomgz]

nothing will be done to reverse the effect for a long long time.
ive done little things. just recycling thats about it actually.

[Issac Brock]

government control......socialism
communism


:lol:

[Subconscious]

hater is all i see
i disagree we are the government
do you even vote ????
question yourself and your hatefull politics

"We The People"
People = Government
Politcs Are Crooks
We, Us, "Toys"

[coffeedependency]

props to dawood, but i heard it somewhere else recently.

props to Mark Twain.

[fat ralphy]

DUDE FOOLS NEED TO PUT ASIDE THEIR EGOS AND REALIZE ITS NOT ABOUT LEFT OR RIGHT...OUR RIDICULOUS POLLUTION IS CATCHING UP WITH US....THE US USES MORE RESOURCES THEN CHINA AND LEADS THE WORLD IN TOXIC EMISSION

CHINAS POPULATION=1,313,973,713
USA=298,444,215

SHIT JUST DOESNT ADD UP....WE NEED TO CHANGE OURSELVES BEFORE OUR GRANDCHILDREN SUFFER FROM OUR STUPIDITY

[Juan Fuentes]

thats why we need to have less kids,or better yet,adopt,you helping the poor soul have a life and a family to support him....

control the number of habitants,so resources are enough and no one is hungry thirsty cold or hot.

knock knock... whos there? vasectomy...oh! come in!

[psyone]

today the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has released their 4th assement report.
check out http://www.ipcc.ch/

the media in the US will quote a cutted version of this, since your president
and the MP of China insisted on cutting out some paragraphs which adressed the subject of possible damages caused by the climate change in North America and China. ignoring actual facts (in this case, the findings of 2500 scientists) is quite a strenght of Mr. Bush it seems.

[leftwinghack]

help global warming .....liberals kill yourselfs cause your the only one who care about it and if you were gone global warming would go away
.....cause you wouldnt be rammming it down our throats with help from your freinds in the liberal media

[Larry Pubes]

ya you's guys, fuck the planet and fuck all liberals who want to stop using the earth as a trashcan. fuuuuuuuck!!

[Juan Fuentes]

leftwinghack the neocon graffer knows wazup

[fermentor666]

leftwinghack is like the unrestrained ego of angelofdeath. It's what angelofdeath would be if he stopped trying to sound intelligent.

[the.crooked]

^^ha.

[yumone]

leftwinghack is like the unrestrained ego of angelofdeath. It's what angelofdeath would be if he stopped trying to sound intelligent.

fuck stop being a whiney little bitch, the mere fact that you always resort to petty insults in arguments with him puts you on the side of dubious intellect.

[Larry Pubes]

stop being a whiney little bitch
+
you always resort to petty insults
=

irony.

[Dawood]

thats why we need to have less kids,or better yet,adopt,you helping the poor soul have a life and a family to support him....

control the number of habitants,so resources are enough and no one is hungry thirsty cold or hot.

knock knock... whos there? vasectomy...oh! come in!


having less kids has nothing to do with it. Everyone has their portion already weighed out for them.
And surely, We gave you authority on the earth and appointed for you therein provisions (for your life). Little thanks do you give. (Al-A'raf 7:10)

In my opinion the problem is not people having more kids, the problem is the wasteful lives people lead and the billions of dollars worth of wastefulness in corporations every year. America hoardes more than half the worlds resources anyway, that's why people are hungry , thirsty and hot because people can't part ways with their boojee frappicano double soy lexus with splenda butter leather and a whirlpool spa in the 8th full bathroom of their 129 car garage MTV, just out of drug rehab cribolicious complete with a 2,62766,89564576 dollar poodle rockin' a fendi sweater and a tennis bracelet.

have more kids, just teach them not be useful, not wasteful.

[yumone]

+

=

irony.

props on selective quoting out of context woooooooooooo

[Larry Pubes]

http://tri-sport.com/merchant/1058/images/site/Jeff%20Spicoli%20-%20Chris%20sm.jpg

whhhuuuut?

[Juan Fuentes]

having less kids has nothing to do with it. Everyone has their portion already weighed out for them.
And surely, We gave you authority on the earth and appointed for you therein provisions (for your life). Little thanks do you give. (Al-A'raf 7:10)

In my opinion the problem is not people having more kids, the problem is the wasteful lives people lead and the billions of dollars worth of wastefulness in corporations every year. America hoardes more than half the worlds resources anyway, that's why people are hungry , thirsty and hot because people can't part ways with their boojee frappicano double soy lexus with splenda butter leather and a whirlpool spa in the 8th full bathroom of their 129 car garage MTV, just out of drug rehab cribolicious complete with a 2,62766,89564576 dollar poodle rockin' a fendi sweater and a tennis bracelet.

have more kids, just teach them not be useful, not wasteful.

peace dawood

i get you with how they WASTE life resources,i got nothing against that,i think that is a huge crime against humanity,but dawood,dont say it has nothing to do with having many kids to try to defend yourself because u had 4 kids,its done,im not pointing at you,i dont want to kill your or anyones kids,but in these times having more than 2 kids becomes a problem.
havent you seen how packed we are in our cities living in boxes one on top of another? and the pollution we cause,and how hard its to feed all these mouths,all the kids that die daily because of no food,and no medicine...being less we can have more,it is moral whether you are a muslim or not.

i hope you reflect in this idea,we still have time to make a better future for the next generations,this should be done now for it to take effect.

also think about how the new world order puts all the obscene material for us to fall into fornication and have kids and leave the mothers,and they show u movies were the guy that did it its all good and soup operas with outrageous adultery,they want us to be many because the more people there is the more confusion in taking a decision will be, because people do not think for themselves they follow the majority,the majority as God says,it is always astray.

also the quran verse 7:10 says God APPOINTED provisions,not make them unlimited.

peace

[Issac Brock]

props on selective quoting out of context woooooooooooo

Selective quoting out of context? Dawg, thats exactly what you said, in that order, and the context is irrelevant. You're trying to call the guy out for using 'petty insults,' when that's exactly what you do. Its not irony, its sheer stupidity.

[Dawood]

peace dawood

i get you with how they WASTE life resources,i got nothing against that,i think that is a huge crime against humanity,but dawood,dont say it has nothing to do with having many kids to try to defend yourself because u had 4 kids,its done,im not pointing at you,i dont want to kill your or anyones kids,but in these times having more than 2 kids becomes a problem.
havent you seen how packed we are in our cities living in boxes one on top of another? and the pollution we cause,and how hard its to feed all these mouths,all the kids that die daily because of no food,and no medicine...being less we can have more,it is moral whether you are a muslim or not.

i hope you reflect in this idea,we still have time to make a better future for the next generations,this should be done now for it to take effect.

also think about how the new world order puts all the obscene material for us to fall into fornication and have kids and leave the mothers,and they show u movies were the guy that did it its all good and soup operas with outrageous adultery,they want us to be many because the more people there is the more confusion in taking a decision will be, because people do not think for themselves they follow the majority,the majority as God says,it is always astray.

also the quran verse 7:10 says God APPOINTED provisions,not make them unlimited.

peace

I disagree, Although I understand your mindset. although the hadith goes...

He (sallAllahu alayhe wasallam) said: “Marry the one who is loving and fertile, for I will be proud of your great numbers before the nations.” Narrated by al-Nasaa’i (3227) and Abu Dawood (2050). Classed as saheeh by Ibn Hibbaan (9/363) and by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Targheeb (1921).

be fruitful and multiply. Don't worry Allah says.

So her Lord (Allah) accepted her with goodly acceptance. He made her grow in a good manner and put her under the care of Zakariya (Zachariya). Every time he entered Al-Mihrab to (visit) her , he found her supplied with sustenance. He said: "O Maryam (Mary)! From where have you got this?" She said, "This is from Allah." Verily, Allah provides sustenance to whom He wills, without limit." (Aali Imran 3:37)

Allah will provide abundance for everyone of them from His Bounty. And Allah is Ever All­Sufficient for His creatures' need, All­ Wise. (An-Nisa 4:130)

And kill not your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Surely, the killing of them is a great sin. (Al-Isra 17:31)

Allah is the best of providers

[yumone]

Selective quoting out of context? Dawg, thats exactly what you said, in that order, and the context is irrelevant. You're trying to call the guy out for using 'petty insults,' when that's exactly what you do. Its not irony, its sheer stupidity.

i was talking about when they have topical arguments but thanks anyway dawwwwg

[Larry Pubes]

daaaawgsz...it's all good, irony and contradiction are alive and well in us all.

[MoeBumps]

smoke a fattie you hippies.

[Juan Fuentes]

i get you dawood,i know what u say,im not saying God is poor,just saying a smaller population would be 100 times better,u cant disagree with that.
(im not into world depopulation through killing,just have less kids)
peace

[fermentor666]

fuck stop being a whiney little bitch, the mere fact that you always resort to petty insults in arguments with him puts you on the side of dubious intellect.



Eat a dick or two, you like it.

[fermentor666]

i was talking about when they have topical arguments but thanks anyway dawwwwg


What are you, the fucking mediator? Go find your own arguments and stop butting into mine with useless assumptions and misconstrued observations.

[yumone]

they're not assumptions dipshit it was a direct statement on something you had just said and its not misconstrued because its blatantly obvious that that is exactly what you always do. And fuck off with the 'butting in' shit because that is exactly what a public forum is there for

[Dawood]

ha, ha...hit em, hit em!

[fermentor666]

they're not assumptions dipshit it was a direct statement on something you had just said and its not misconstrued because its blatantly obvious that that is exactly what you always do. And fuck off with the 'butting in' shit because that is exactly what a public forum is there for


What are you, his kid? You must miss all the times he resorts to name-calling and stereotyping. I can't even crack a joke and you're all rushing to the keyboard to defend the honor of "angelofdeath". Get a life, kid.

[Larry Pubes]

they're not assumptions dipshit..

there you go again with that irony!

[Dawood]

oooooooooooh, you heard that? pssssssh, thems fightin' words right thurr.

[yumone]

hey larry ya'll be buttin into our argument and shit kiddy kid kid. I can;t even say something about fermentor 666 without you rushign to the keyboard to defend his honour, get a life kid :rolleyes:

how's that for irony

p.s. fermentor sorry to get you so riled up by commenting on one of your little AOD taunts its just that i read like 3 of them in a row at the time and it pissed me off a little, i hope we can still be cyberfriends.


ps kid

[Larry Pubes]

irony is a bitch eh?

[Issac Brock]

Wow, yumone, just wow.

[russell jones]

I am slowly discovering that Rupert Murdoch is the most powerful man in the world. Discuss.

[Issac Brock]

Well, he's up there.

[russell jones]

Seriously, Murdoch is a big cause of the Iraq War and a big perpetrator when it comes to promoting the "Global Warming as Socialist Propaganda Plot." All hail Fox News, our real shadow government.

[fermentor666]

hey larry ya'll be buttin into our argument and shit kiddy kid kid. I can;t even say something about fermentor 666 without you rushign to the keyboard to defend his honour, get a life kid :rolleyes:

how's that for irony

p.s. fermentor sorry to get you so riled up by commenting on one of your little AOD taunts its just that i read like 3 of them in a row at the time and it pissed me off a little, i hope we can still be cyberfriends.


ps kid


Whatever KID.

[yumone]

one bold 'kid' doesnt outweight the number of times i said 'kid' in my post therefore i'm more mature

[fermentor666]

Whatever, KID.

[Larry Pubes]

I am slowly discovering that Rupert Murdoch is the most powerful man in the world. Discuss.

i disagree. he's most likely not human. no human can be behind an empire like that, you'd have to have a heart blacker than a thousand midnights.

[yumone]

Whatever, KID.

i concede