Ron Paul Revolution!!!!

[lord_casek]

I'm sorry.

don't be, the scenery is breathtaking, the people are friendly,
and the country cooking is amazing.

*southern belles abound.


themefromthebottom: i don't know. maybe, maybe not. perhaps he knew the person who wrote it, but didn't know they had racist views. you just never know.
but i can tell you that i am 110% sure dr. paul isn't a racist.



here's some fox news news. they have plants in the audience and were caught.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0wu1i6GooQY&feature=related

[thecoldmidwest]

Tennessee really is a beautiful state, I went through it not long ago on my way to and from Myrtle Beach. It was the first time I was ever in the south and I'd thought that there'd be people in white hoods around every corner. But it really is nice. I have no idea why so many people put the south down...

[lord_casek]

Tennessee really is a beautiful state, I went through it not long ago on my way to and from Myrtle Beach. It was the first time I was ever in the south and I'd thought that there'd be people in white hoods around every corner. But it really is nice. I have no idea why so many people put the south down...


ignorance?

[lord_casek]

on jim cramer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8teEHdCrFqE

[angelofdeath]

fuck yeah, the mad money cramer and paul were high fiving the whole time! i was watching it live last night and was shocked, because usually cramer is always calling for the FED to lower rates and inject liquidity, where as paul wants the market to determine this stuff. i was really really surprised. i have much more respect for jim now. maybe he is an austrian econo. at heart.

as for ron paul and racism... i love it. you know someone on the right is a real threat when the hate mongers come out pulling weird random shit, twisting it to fit their idea that anyone on the right, especially the far right is in the aryan brotherhood. do you actually know what those guys stand for? really, do you? do you realize that they think DC, the UN and the whole world is run only by rich jewish people? and do you know that is the reason why they dont like DC? they love government. they just want to run it the way adolf hitler did. where as ron paul hates government.

its always been hilarious to me when people call libertarians racists. it is inherent in the libertarian philosophy that everyone is equal, all own their own lives, liberty and property and governments exist to protect that. they believe not in group rights, but simple individual rights.

people trying to smear people who are not racist as racists are on the losing end of the debate. they cant argue the issues or philosophy with someone, so they have to resort to name calling and character assasination to put the guy on the defensive and to defend his own character rather than dealing with the issue of freedom that the guy is asserting.

[russell jones]

f really, do you? do you realize that they think DC, the UN and the whole world is run only by rich jewish people? and do you know that is the reason why they dont like DC?

Doesn't Casek think this too?

I would never be stupid enough to say that Libertarians are racist, but I just may be stupid enough to tell you that perhaps a good majority of racists in this country claim to be Libertarian, if only as an excuse to "stop taking my hard earned dollars and giving them to darky."

That being said, I could hear Paul's particular way of speaking coming through the "Blacks are fleet of foot" comment.

Also, AOD, you should be careful yourself, since your defense of Paul involved you talking about how he gives to the poor, as if all Black people are poor...

[lord_casek]

haha. no, i think zionists are a large problem to the world, but there are different kinds of zionists. bad and good. just like there are bad christians and good christians. has nothing to do with race.

and i was talking about how paul gave his services away to people who cannot afford them. i didn't mean blacks in particular. i meant what i said, the poor.

it's nice that you tried to spin what i said, though.

[russell jones]

I wasn't spinning what you said. I was just making an analysis of the possible implications of what you had said given the context of the argument.

I have found that some of the accusations lobbed a Paul are not entirely fair, like taking his quote that "the Israeli lobby is evil" and construing it as anti-semitic.

[lord_casek]

I wasn't spinning what you said. I was just making an analysis of the possible implications of what you had said given the context of the argument.

I have found that some of the accusations lobbed a Paul are not entirely fair, like taking his quote that "the Israeli lobby is evil" and construing it as anti-semitic.


understood.

[lord_casek]

the tea party begins tonight!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9-NqDyhnAs

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

I'm shelling out 200$ of my own dollars.

It ain't much, but I don't got a lot.

Especially this time of year. You'll see me at work tomorrow running back and forth to the PC's to check the money meter.

[lord_casek]

I'm shelling out 200$ of my own dollars.

It ain't much, but I don't got a lot.

Especially this time of year. You'll see me at work tomorrow running back and forth to the PC's to check the money meter.




this is going to be revolutionary.

[lord_casek]

so you don't bog down the teaparty site
http://paulcash.slact.net/?save_the_republic=true

[angelofdeath]

counters are starting to go wild

[lord_casek]

i say between 7 and 9 million tomorrow.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

He's basically on pace to double what he did on November 5th.

Not bad. Could pick up or stall though. For some reason I doubt the latter.

[lord_casek]

almost $15.5 million as of 5:15 e.s.t.

[angelofdeath]

just donated. almost 15.6

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

16.2 now, and he just got my money as well.

[vanfullofretards]

You guys realize its 16.2 million for the 4th quarter, right?

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

Yep, pretty sure everyone is aware of that.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

Oops.

[angelofdeath]

yes sir-reee
he blew past the nov 5 one day record a while ago.....

[lord_casek]

i'm hoping the media will grab on to this. they need to.

[lord_casek]

$16.6 right now....

[kigol]

Ron Paul FTW

[angelofdeath]

i hope the media will catch on.... im sure tucker will probably mention it tomorrow.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

http://www.ronpaulgraphs.com/dec_16_vs_nov_5_total.html

According to this graph Ron Paul's grassroots campaign raised around 6 million dollars in one day.

Again I don't know how accurate this is, but that is pretty crazy, and according to the graph we surpassed Kerry's single day record of 5.7 mill.

[Some1]

dude i cant believe i havent heard anything on the news about it yet...

[lord_casek]

ILMB:is that counting call ins? i know it take a bit for them to calculate in those, too.
he may have hit more than 7 or 8.

some1: maybe late on today,

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

http://ronpaulgraphs.blogspot.com/

So, no Casek they probably haven't been completely added into the total numbers yet.

The guy that runs the site also talks about some problems he was having last night. It could go even higher still. I'm sure we wont know exactly how much he raised till later tonight.

[the dark horse]

FACT 1: If Ron Paul were to be elected, he would most likely turn the country around for the better and revolutionize the way the common American views the government (and life in general).
FACT 2: The "common American" is not ready for this to happen, because he is stuck in a black hole up his ass. Ron Paul will never win, even though he may be the final hope for America against complete corruption/inevitable destruction.

Maybe one day all the people who are mentally aware will be reincarnated or something on the barren rock of a planet that we are going to leave behind.

[lord_casek]

FACT 1: If Ron Paul were to be elected, he would most likely turn the country around for the better and revolutionize the way the common American views the government (and life in general).
FACT 2: The "common American" is not ready for this to happen, because he is stuck in a black hole up his ass. Ron Paul will never win, even though he may be the final hope for America against complete corruption/inevitable destruction.

Maybe one day all the people who are mentally aware will be reincarnated or something on the barren rock of a planet that we are going to leave behind.

wow, captain depress-o....go drink some coffee and take that black beret off.
we are taking it back

[the.crooked]

He broke the one day fundraising thing didnt he?

[lord_casek]

He broke the one day fundraising thing didnt he?



sure did.

[Juan Fuentes]

broke it by how much?
the total?
6 is the graph saying?
any media coverage? im sorry i dont watch tv



dark horse is giving up too quick. no good, dude.

[lord_casek]

6.6 million juan. i think he broke the record by 1.,5 or 2

[Juan Fuentes]

thanks casek

that's a lot!
i was expecting 5.5 to 6.0.... the revolution surprised me once again!

[lord_casek]

wired got it!
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/12/ron-paul-suppor.html

[angelofdeath]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWq1w4xcjrs

kent snyder on tucker...

tucker endorsed paul earlier, but i cant find the youtube video

[vanfullofretards]

compilation of all of the Ron Paul news
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpVPtIvpsSc



Casek is this you? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNd_PPC69oI)

I had no idea you were from Australia.

[Some1]

I like the fact CNN makes the dude look like a douche bag "unshaven sitting at his kitchen table with a corona" instead of being like THIS DUDE DID SOMETHING AMAZING!

[lord_casek]

compilation of all of the Ron Paul news
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpVPtIvpsSc



Casek is this you? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNd_PPC69oI)

I had no idea you were from Australia.

nope.

[lord_casek]

Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama, said in a very derogatory tone:

“The civil libertarians among us would rather defend the constitution than protect our nation’s security.”


i just wrote him a letter kindly insisting that he get the hell out of our country.

[Juan Fuentes]

it's a contradiction.
the constitution creates security for the nation.

his wordplay aims to convince the general public that they have to be secure on top of having their rights.
plain old scare tactic.

[PabloEscobar]

I just watched a bunch of Ron Paul footage on youtube and i gotta say the dude is on point, it was hard to find things i disagreed with him on and actually i have yet to find any..

[PabloEscobar]

Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama, said in a very derogatory tone:

“The civil libertarians among us would rather defend the constitution than protect our nation’s security.”


i just wrote him a letter kindly insisting that he get the hell out of our country.

bump

[Some1]

Fox and Friends
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CHb8CWw-Q4

American Morning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdSxLH1NfY0

Morning Joe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alxjl4IjZ9k

[Some1]

Fox News the people are a bunch of retards.

The guy asks him about huckabee's add about religion or whatever and then Dr. Paul makes a great connection to the whole Fascism will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross thing and the dude just backs up like Oh I dont believe he was doing that I think he was just putting out a xmas message...fucking stupid...

Polls are wrong we are going to take it during the elections WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama, said in a very derogatory tone:

“The civil libertarians among us would rather defend the constitution than protect our nation’s security.”


i just wrote him a letter kindly insisting that he get the hell out of our country.

Prime example of double think.


Quite honestly shit is hilarious.

[angelofdeath]

shit, is the glen beck thing on youtube yet?
i just caught the last 5 minutes of the show.

[MY ROTTING LIVER]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-192.html

Why are Paul's numbers across the board so consistantly low?

[iloveboxcars]

because polls are complete bullshit.

[lord_casek]

shit, is the glen beck thing on youtube yet?
i just caught the last 5 minutes of the show.


i think he comes on again at 9 or 10 est

(what was he saying?) calling ron paul supporters terrorist sympathizers again?

[lord_casek]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-192.html

Why are Paul's numbers across the board so consistantly low?


one of my neighbors got polled by phone. he said they asked some stupid question about what candidate he was voting for, left out paul, then asked what his favorite sexual position was. he hung up. obviously what they wanted.

[MY ROTTING LIVER]

So you're reason for Ron Paul gaining no new ground is that your neighbor got a call like that?

[iloveboxcars]

THE REASON IS POLLS ARE BULLSHIT SON

[lord_casek]

So you're reason for Ron Paul gaining no new ground is that your neighbor got a call like that?

nah, i was saying that telephone pollsters are using tricks like that.
pretty dirty if you ask me.

go look at straw poll results, then get back to me.
dr. paul is winning most of them.

[thinksmall]

Wtf Lee Harvey Oswald = CIA? Jeezus.

Anyway, the Boston Tea Party thing for Dr. Paul that just happened was cool.

[angelofdeath]

shit, im surprised. beck was really good with ron paul. im stoked. i always thought he was more of a boot licker. i wouldnt be surprised if he follows tucker carlson's lead and supports ron paul. maybe all that hollow rhetoric he always spouts off about the constitution this, and the declaration that, finally hit home when he was face to face with the most consistent constitutionalist politician in our history.

[vanfullofretards]

I just saw that hour long Glen Beck/Ron Paul interview. It was pretty good, despite Beck coming off as slightly arrogant like usual. I had heard most of it before but when Beck got to the 9/11 conspiracies it was hilarious.

Beck: "What is your opinion on the theory that the planes that crashed into the towers were remotely controlled?"

Paul: "......... I uhh I haven't even heard of such a claim"

[lord_casek]

edit....

[lord_casek]

Wtf Lee Harvey Oswald = CIA? Jeezus.

Anyway, the Boston Tea Party thing for Dr. Paul that just happened was cool.

isn't that crazy?

[El Mamerro]

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/system/files?file=images/snakesonaplane.jpg

[lord_casek]

on glenn beck

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8417135044213597647

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

Or he could have just been playing nice for TV purposes. The Ron Paulolites did bombard CNN with hate mail after he said all that.

Who knows though. Most people do say "I like this guy" after actually listening to what he has to say.

I haven't watched it yet, I will asap.

[lord_casek]

Or he could have just been playing nice for TV purposes. The Ron Paulolites did bombard CNN with hate mail after he said all that.

Who knows though. Most people do say "I like this guy" after actually listening to what he has to say.

I haven't watched it yet, I will asap.

i emailed beck and the sponsors of his company, letting them know i would never buy any of the bobbles if beck associated ron paul supporters with terrorists again. lots of people did.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

I know. We'll I didn't know all that. But that's my point.

Beck probably really woke up to the support Ron has after that insult. Which he and his boys probably thought would turn people off to him.

Talk about a "flip-flop".

[vanfullofretards]

**off topic

Casek, your the king of unnecessary quotes. Can't say I'm not guilty of it, but damn. Like... write faster or something.

[lord_casek]

**off topic

Casek, your the king of unnecessary quotes. Can't say I'm not guilty of it, but damn. Like... write faster or something.


what was not necessary?

[vanfullofretards]

what was not necessary?

nothing nevermind

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

LOLZ IM DUMB!

[MY ROTTING LIVER]

nah, i was saying that telephone pollsters are using tricks like that.
pretty dirty if you ask me.

go look at straw poll results, then get back to me.
dr. paul is winning most of them.

Straw polls require people to pay, which Ron Pauls supporters are clearly willing to do, but is only an indicator of the campaigns willingness to pay or the degree of energy existing supporters have. They are not in any way as accurate as polling, and while I'll grant polling isn't perfect, trends across multiple polls paint an accurate trend.
...unless you believe all the polls are influenced by the Communist Jew conspiracy fighting to keep their secret government afloat via illegal funding through the federal reserve and Hillary Clinton's secret ovary clone army and only Ron Paul can save you.



Anyway, what I was thinking after I made my original post is that maybe polls are just conducted via home phones where as Ron Paul has younger supporters who might just have cell phones which pollsters can't call. I don't care enough to verify this idea but maybe you could...

[lord_casek]

http://youtube.com/results?search_query=ron+paul+telephone+poll&search=Search

[angelofdeath]

what im surprised about is that beck didnt take him on about iraq, civil liberties, drug war, etc. when the pressure is put on to any of the conservatives about real conservative principles, like getting out of the UN, cutting taxes and spending, etc. they will most likely agree with the position in rhetoric, but probably not in practice.

beck had the league of the south guy and some uber leftist guy who were the head of a secessionist conference a couple of months back. beck basically tore them apart, which i thought was funny because beck is supposed to be some sort of 'libertarian at heart' or limited government conservative guy. considering this country was founded on secession from tyranny, it always strikes me as funny when people put down the principle of it.

[lord_casek]

pretty much the same with michael weiner, eh?

[Some1]

So you're reason for Ron Paul gaining no new ground is that your neighbor got a call like that?

The polls mean nothing until the election. They don't poll kids who have never voted they don't call people with cell phones. I dont know anyone my age with a home phone. Polls are wrong you watch how big of a deal its gonna be at an election when he takes the vote.

[El Mamerro]

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/system/files?file=images/snakesonaplane.jpg

Remember, Remember
the 18th of August.

[lord_casek]

stop shilling, mamerro

[El Mamerro]

Not shilling whatsoever by any definition of the word... I'm just saying, I have a feeling you guys are in for a big disappointment.

I like Ron Paul a lot, I really do. Dude wants change and has some very strong ideas. But the kind of hype and attention he's been getting is eerily similar to past happenings that didn't turn out as expected. The Mark of the Internet Phenomenon has been very unkind to those it's been awarded to.

[lord_casek]

Not shilling whatsoever by any definition of the word... I'm just saying, I have a feeling you guys are in for a big disappointment.

I like Ron Paul a lot, I really do. Dude wants change and has some very strong ideas. But the kind of hype and attention he's been getting is eerily similar to past happenings that didn't turn out as expected. The Mark of the Internet Phenomenon has been very unkind to those it's been awarded to.

i wouldn't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. his straw poll results, as well as the results from donations show differently.

we want change and we aren't going to stop until we get it.

our news is lying to the world, and now everyone is starting to realize this.

[El Mamerro]

I'll have to see when the moment of truth comes. if following the SOAP example (not even gonna get into the more appropiate precedent, Howard Dean), the sheer amount of user generated content and participation related to the movie definitely showed something different from the actual results later. And I have yet to see donation money translate into electability. A decent amount of people giving a lot of money might match funds-wise a huge amount of people giving a little, but they won't match the votes.

I hope I'm wrong.

[lord_casek]

I'll have to see when the moment of truth comes. if following the SOAP example (not even gonna get into the more appropiate precedent, Howard Dean), the sheer amount of user generated content and participation related to the movie definitely showed something different from the actual results later. And I have yet to see donation money translate into electability. A decent amount of people giving a lot of money might match funds-wise a huge amount of people giving a little, but they won't match the votes.

I hope I'm wrong.

me too.

what's the news look like in pr? they paying much attention to our goings on?

[El Mamerro]

Not really. We never really do, local politics is basically PR's national circus/sport and there's little time/space for the big people in the US who really call the shots.

[lord_casek]

Not really. We never really do, local politics is basically PR's national circus/sport and there's little time/space for the big people in the US who really call the shots.



i kinda figured, but wasn't sure. hell, atleast we don't have nuke bases there any longer.

[the.crooked]

i wouldn't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. his straw poll results, as well as the results from donations show differently.


My stepdad studies voting trends in relation to pols before the votes, and if he has impressed upon me anything about prevoting polls, people lie.

Polls and the survey's they are based on have necessary biases that suggest to people there is a correct way to answer. There are also tons of little patterns he and other analysts feel they can discern based on what the polls say (for example my stepfather believes that if Obama leads Clinton by a margin of 2 to 4 percent in the polls come the primaries, he will lose), but most certainely this is not based of who is in the lead. Polls merely reflect what people say, or profess to say they will do. They are some of the weakest probabilistic determiners of the future as far as a scientific method. In all reality they are complete crap when it comes to appreciating what probability can be inferred from a limited measurement (surveys/polls) of an extremely complex cognio-social activity (voting activity/interpretation of politics). Good science based on polling is not the superficial immediacy of this or that person being supposedly the one people would choose. It lies in whatching how people say certain things and what they actually do otherwise. Impress upon me an instance where polling trends for an independent candidate with moderate fan base ever even mattered as far as the end result. Mams is right in trusting the dictate of last election's fiasco for Howard Dean. The trend being as Mams expressed. His polling numbers were great, but then you know, it didn't happen.

Do not put all your faith in the strength of his poll numbers. Also, can you put up a link to what polls specifically you are talking about. The general moniker "straw-poll" is a bit too ambiguous for me.

I don't trust polls at all.


People are shady and stupid.

I also do not vote. an argument for which goes like this.

In my desicion theory class we spoke of the the cost to benefit equation for voting.

If I rememer correctly it went something like this:

R=Bc+Bp-C

where

R= net return
Bc= Benefit of your party/candidate winning. Or the benefit of being of the winning group.
Bp= direct/personal and intangible benefit of your vote winning.
C= cost of voting.


Now he asked the class how many people felt this was an adequate model for evaluating the capacity to choose to vote. Most agreed, while a few of us expressed a feeling of certain inadequacy. He immediately followed this up by a "poll" of how many people vote and will vote in the next election. Everyone raised their hand but me.

The variable C is underdetermined for me. They only spoke about it in tangible costs of voting, e.g. cost of gas, energy, etc of actually voting. What it lacked is the intangible cost of voting, e.g. displaying a coherence and acceptance of the general terms and structures of our government at all. To me, the complacency displayed by voting for any of these fucks is more than I am willing to bear of my personal morals. At this point in our history, the inadequacy and corruption of our institution is matched only by the ineffecacy of what the public actually thinks. I choose to not participate but to quitely navigate my way through a fucked up system long enough to get to a comfortable place. I do not choose to give validation to that system through blind civic action towards the perpetuation of an unstoppable institutional process of increasing complexity (in a formal systems sense) and ineffeciency.


I stay hood rich, fuck the american middle class. Fuck all of this in general, property rights... please.

I got into an argument today with my dad about graffiti being as socially damaging as someone breaking into a car andnot stealing anything. He felt like it was vandalism for vandalisms sake. I said who cares. He said that no matter what it was someones property. I said and what? I am supposed to think thats a good thing? An entire culture founded upon the maintnence of what is yours and yours only. It is no wonder we have ended up as focused on material and monetary gain. Our very governmental structure is perpetuated upon subliming the two.

I also made the point that in so much as that system is created it creates a necessary caste system. And if some fuck needed to break into a car to get money to eat, or to buy beer or whatever, I would take that as a necessary event that is equivalent to the one time cost of replacing the window on the car. The intangible and tangible cost of having one's car broken into is a matter of statistical chance equaled by the social conditions and experiences of the person driven as a matter of necessity to complete such an act.

This country will never be the ideal dream it so professes to work towards, or that you and everyone else starry eyed suckin ron pual's dick think it once was. You are takin it back.... From what? The corporations? Right. The ideal tenets of this country... The ultimate expression of the founding rights that you and AOD so strongly advocate in your support of Ron Pauls constitutionalism. What the representatives who speak more on behalf of those corporations than the millions of constituents that "elected" them? Please, their arguing for the corporations is more a reflection of american sentiment then any one person. As people push their dollars (the representation of American choice, if you will) in to the hands of this or that corporation, they align themselves with a certain identity and set of values. When those companies have enough money they in a sense become infrastructure through lobbying and other means (be they bribes, etc). So pleeeasssse do not tell me this country was ever ours. This country was built for the inevitable inception of the corporation as conglomerate middle man between the sovereignty and the people composing it.


No my friend, nothing will change. Even if Ron Paul is elected, I assure you the fissures and structural change he would impose or at least force consideration of will turn this country far from what you hoped it would be come. Not by ill intent, but by necessary course of fact.

There are ways to change things though, and it is through corporations. Through changing the consumer's perspective by convincing the corporations that their bottom line would be better served by taking certain political stances. That is the value of people like Al Gore, that you casek are so skeptical of. They act as liaisons through the only effectual means of policy change in this country; money. We should be so lucky as to have people who realise they can make some bucks while still making good things happen. When Al Gore as asked why he didn't run again he kept saying, "Because I can do better for the world outside the White House." And he is absolutely right. Bureaucracy has many connotations of corruption and red tape but really it is just another term for Entropy. Our government is a closed system of indexed policy. Procedure is mapped out by ever increasing levels of policy. After however many years of this process, how can one person change all so much within it. And as you are about to tell me that is the very thing RP will do, I will again refer to this point: The changes he would force would be far beyond yall's consideration. For what you can not account for in the ideal belief of progressive reformation is the backlash and counteraction towards that impulse. Like I said, failure not through ill want, but through necessary course of fact.


Change things in subversion. Change things by personal interaction, not by a belief in an already destroyed system in which our perspectives actually mean nothing.

[thinksmall]

Al Gore is just a brilliant actor, similar to Bill Clinton and all those other junkies. He's just got some public relation adviser over his shoulder.

"In early March 1993 President Clinton created what is now called the National Partnership for Reinventing Government (NPR) and named Vice President Al Gore to serve as his point man in a drive to reinvent government in the United States. While on the surface it may appear to be nothing more than just another government management fad, it is anything but that."

"National Partnership for Reinventing Government - The National Partnership for Reinventing Government (NPR) began life as the National Performance Review when President Clinton created it on March 3, 1993 and named Al Gore as its head. In June of that year Gore sponsored the first Service to the Citizens Conference in Richmond, Virginia. The three most important conclusions that the conference came to were:

1. Information technology should be used to create a single government.

2. A national identity card would be necessary and it must be an integrated access card or as it is more commonly referred to as a "smart card".

3. That legislative action should be avoided while implementing the program."

http://sovereignty.freedom.org/p/gov/hillmann-book2.html

[Juan Fuentes]

crooked, very crooked

you wouldnt be thinking like that if you were born in palestine under the zionist occupation.

you have it easy.
never experienced anything harsh in your life.
and that's why you think things will stay the same for ever.
you are frozen in time, you react according to your surroundings. by instinct, like animals, or primitive humans.
people like that are on the process of being extinct.

being egoistical does not make you a free individual.


maybe when they chip your arm and put a camera in your door youll realize evil exists.

[lord_casek]

crooked: here you are. very interesting analysis
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/straw-poll-results/

[the.crooked]

Juan, do not presume to know what I have and have not experienced.

[the.crooked]

crooked: here you are. very interesting analysis
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/straw-poll-results/

gracias.

[the.crooked]

Al Gore is just a brilliant actor, similar to Bill Clinton and all those other junkies. He's just got some public relation adviser over his shoulder.

"In early March 1993 President Clinton created what is now called the National Partnership for Reinventing Government (NPR) and named Vice President Al Gore to serve as his point man in a drive to reinvent government in the United States. While on the surface it may appear to be nothing more than just another government management fad, it is anything but that."

"National Partnership for Reinventing Government - The National Partnership for Reinventing Government (NPR) began life as the National Performance Review when President Clinton created it on March 3, 1993 and named Al Gore as its head. In June of that year Gore sponsored the first Service to the Citizens Conference in Richmond, Virginia. The three most important conclusions that the conference came to were:

1. Information technology should be used to create a single government.

2. A national identity card would be necessary and it must be an integrated access card or as it is more commonly referred to as a "smart card".

3. That legislative action should be avoided while implementing the program."

http://sovereignty.freedom.org/p/gov/hillmann-book2.html

As if the integration of technology into societal infrastructure is avoidable?


Cask will tell you I am all for this idea, and I call it google.

[thinksmall]

'single government' duude.

Technology is cool (Though it is 100% avoidable like me about to eat chinese, but i wont because its yummy.) and its done well for a lot of people.

BUT the destruction of diversity is a completely different case.. it is the creation of fascist society.

Al Gore manipulates public opinion to create the necessity of repressive policy. Martin Luther King Jr. warned us about this, suggestively.

[the.crooked]

What is an infinite plurality but one whole?

Fascism is when a government imposes a specific rule of thought. A single government can exist and allow diversity to flourish under it.


Im still sayin enlightened corporatism, a tinge off from enlightened despotism.



And what repressive policy has Al Gore pushed in he absence of office? The attempt to restructure the ideals of industrial society? To put an impetus of responsibility into the effects of our actions on earth into the monetary viability of said society?

[lord_casek]

What is an infinite plurality but one whole?

Fascism is when a government imposes a specific rule of thought. A single government can exist and allow diversity to flourish under it.


Im still sayin enlightened corporatism, a tinge off from enlightened despotism.



And what repressive policy has Al Gore pushed in he absence of office? The attempt to restructure the ideals of industrial society? To put an impetus of responsibility into the effects of our actions on earth into the monetary viability of said society?



global carbon tax.

[the.crooked]

Again, I do not think that is a bad thing.

[the.crooked]

Repressive connotes decreasing or inhibiting progression. If anything this is forcing a higher level of effeciency or having to increase the cost of current production. Companies do not want to pay more, so they will slowly learn to change their infrastructures.

[thinksmall]

Not only that, he wants to imply policy.

Its like the seatbelt policy. Which is similar to a diet policy, hours you can spend outside policy, kinds of furniture you are allowed to have policy (I made these up, but they're in the same bracket). I can go on and on with things that are good for everyone that could well be policy.

Someone somewhere believes they know whats good for you and without objection, makes you do it. Thats policy.

Awareness then responsibility is one thing. Policy and repression is another.

...Obedience vs. Discipline

[the.crooked]

And we aren't living that life already?


Besides, global carbon tax is not being imposed on you or I. That is on a corporate level for corporate entities.

While indirectly effecting us it is not an immediate imposition on our lives like, say a city ordinance banning baggy pants (that one is real).

What you to are suggesting is that he is trying to control societal morals. Well, yes, isn't that the point of policy at all. Ideally this is gudied by the majority voice, but you know, people are retarded at all levels. Any choice in making a law is a restriction of some one elses right to do that which is made illegal by the creation of the law at all. A law is an expression of a dominant viewpoint subjugating everyone else. It just means there is enough punishment to back up "illegal" behavior.


Law = restriction. Plain and simple. You dig our government you dig restriction.


This is my point though. If one is going to engage in activie participation of this program, I appreciate those that do it for things that are obviously in the mind of maintaining the potential for a progressive society. Bitching about environmental issues because it is change at all just shows the masses as the maintnence of the status quo and nothing more.

[thinksmall]

You are right. Though i dont dig restriction, i exercise against it often. Lawl. What you wrote is also why everyone likes Ron Paul, he's the hero in all this.

My argument is that Gore changed, changes or even tries to change, the 'dominant viewpoint'. I don't understand what you mean by bitching about environmental issues though.

Anyways.. with respect to diversity, there shouldn't be a dominant viewpoint - but everyone should respect each other. Which is what global governance destroys, things should be handled in state.

[the.crooked]

Anyways.. with respect to diversity, there shouldn't be a dominant viewpoint - but everyone should respect each other. Which is what global governance destroys, things should be handled in state.

This is impossible. There will always be a dominant view point. Whoever wrote what law being that perspective.


And what is any state better than a federal? What if we had a state that wanted to bring back slavery? Be quick to hope the fed saves our asses then.

[thinksmall]

I guess my statement about dominant viewpoint was dumb, like others.. but I don't believe in making people do things through force.

Slavery? Ha. Thats what global governance will bring, obedient sheep that follow certain policies.

With education and the whole Amnesty International movement, things like that will be stopped if they even occur.... but the catch is, this time, it wont be done through policy.

[the.crooked]

You people speak as though there is some utopian force driving the progression of scoeities. No it is the ebb and flow of what is the dominant viewpoint.


So how would one make them do things? Coersion? Is that not law? I mean get upset at S.O.P. just don't get pissy when people try and make changes through that.

[lord_casek]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15651688/

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/02/bloomberg-calls-for-tax-on-carbon-emissions/index.html?ex=1351742400&en=0dc8fe40f68a67dc&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

As MIT climate scientist Dr. Richard Lindzen warned earlier this year , "Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life."
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=b4f81115-802a-23ad-4e54-f0137d7a406f&Issue_id=

http://tpa.typepad.com/research/2007/09/the-case-agains.html

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=b4f81115-802a-23ad-4e54-f0137d7a406f&Issue_id=

http://www.dailytech.com/Survey%2BLess%2BThan%2BHalf%2Bof%2Ball%2BPublished %2BScientists%2BEndorse%2BGlobal%2BWarming%2BTheor y/article8641.htm

[thinksmall]

I want to say knowledge is what makes people do things.

There is an utopian force driving progression though, but its because of diversity that it will never happen. If you remove diversity and change consensus then oh snap, which probably wont ever happen.

EDIT: haha casek wins again. So it is happening....

[the.crooked]

I don't understand why you equate the possibility of one government with a lack of diversity. I think you are mixing up levels of abstraction.


And casek, I am not saying it won't impact things. I think it is a bureaucrat's dream because it is a completely unregulated market that could be tapped in to. Does not mean it is one that should not be.

[the.crooked]

Clarification, I was thinking of Carbon Trading. Not carbon taxing.


I will have to come up with a better view about that before I will speak on Carbon Taxing.

Carbon trading on the other hand, as one of the main views pushed by Al Gore, is a pretty good idea. look it up.

[lord_casek]

neil cavuto OWNED
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqPhrqllHzY

[Theo.Huxtable]

who the hell's bombing the freeways with large ron paul posters?

i see large ones on the freeways planted into the dirt on the side, and some signs hanging from overpasses

then i was by the beach and saw some guys waving ron paul posters in the intersection

[lord_casek]

who the hell's bombing the freeways with large ron paul posters?

i see large ones on the freeways planted into the dirt on the side, and some signs hanging from overpasses

the i was by the beach and saw some guys waving ron paul posters in the intersection

awesome.

[Theo.Huxtable]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otZgd9wxE98

"we should live with in our means"

couldn't have said it any better.

why the current government chooses to spend more and borrow more than we make and increase the already-staggering deficit, is beyond me. the chickens will eventually come home to roost if we don't quit. but this style of "spend more than we generate" existed before bush. anyone know when the u.s. government started this trend of overspending?

i also agree with him on how bad printing money out of thin air, and how it hurts the middle-class and the poor while the rich prosper. that's part of the reason why the dollar has been taking a beating lately.

[lord_casek]

it's funny that you only hear dr. paul speaking about such things.

the rest are afraid (to lose their wealth)

[the.crooked]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otZgd9wxE98

"we should live with in our means"

couldn't have said it any better.

why the current government chooses to spend more and borrow more than we make and increase the already-staggering deficit, is beyond me. the chickens will eventually come home to roost if we don't quit. but this style of "spend more than we generate" existed before bush. anyone know when the u.s. government started this trend of overspending?

i also agree with him on how bad printing money out of thin air, and how it hurts the middle-class and the poor while the rich prosper. that's part of the reason why the dollar has been taking a beating lately.

this happens because this is the creedo our country lives by.


look at subprime mortgage issue. look at the average level of credit card debt in this country.


we built ourselves on the artifice of credit.

[MY ROTTING LIVER]

The executive approves, but can only try to influence how laws are proposed regarding taxes, war, migration and really anything else (section 7 and 8). If Ron Paul is elected, how will he make congress support his agenda?

[lord_casek]

The executive approves, but can only try to influence how laws are proposed regarding taxes, war, migration and really anything else (section 7 and 8). If Ron Paul is elected, how will he make congress support his agenda?

abolish the laws.

[the.crooked]

abolishement would require another type of law.


which would still have to go through congress.


he can't just up and dissolve shit.

[MY ROTTING LIVER]

Ron Paul beat the Sun in a staring contest.

[lord_casek]

theo: did you see him on neil cavuto?

[thecoldmidwest]

neil cavuto OWNED
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqPhrqllHzY

I can see why they don't invite him onto many tv programs, He ends up outwitting everyone when they let him talk!

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

Ron Paul would have the people behind him.

Congress is the peoples bitch. At least in theory. If they don't do what Ron wants, and if Ron wants what we want. We just apply the pressure. Bam magic.

[lord_casek]

HANNITY: Do you lean towards one strategy over the other? Or you don't want to say?

ROVE: I don't want to say. I �

HANNITY: You do, though.

ROVE: But it is interesting to see that everybody has made their strategic bets. I'm not certain, incidentally, that this is helpful for the country, for this to be settled so quickly. I mean, people do need the time � this process ought to be spread out over time, in my opinion, because it allows more people to participate, more people in the country to develop a deeper understanding of who the candidates are, and for the people of America to make a more considered judgment.

This thing is happening so quick on so many different battle fronts that I'm not certain, regardless of who makes the � who bet on the right strategy, there is going to be a bandwagon effect, no, national reputation is going to count � no matter which way that works out, I'm not certain it is necessarily in the best interest of the country.

[Juan Fuentes]

Ron Paul would have the people behind him.

Congress is the peoples bitch. At least in theory. If they don't do what Ron wants, and if Ron wants what we want. We just apply the pressure. Bam magic.

yes sir!









hahahaha that cavuto video is priceless, like they say in spanish. le salio el tiro por la culata...the shot came out from the stock.
you dont play with ron paul, no no.

[the.crooked]

Ron Paul would have the people behind him.

Congress is the peoples bitch. At least in theory. If they don't do what Ron wants, and if Ron wants what we want. We just apply the pressure. Bam magic.

in an ideal conception of congress, sure.

[angelofdeath]

soap box, ballot box, jury box, cartridge box

[MY ROTTING LIVER]

cereal box?

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

in an ideal conception of congress, sure.

Not that I do not point the finger at Congress for a lot of what is going on, everyone is just sitting around doing nothing but pointing the finger.

However I think it's in an ideal society that would be necessary. Most people could give a fuck less what's going on outside of their day to day things. Tunnel vision man. Nothings going to change until people care. At least enough people.

[TiBuRoNaZo]

Ron Paul 2008!!!! I knew there had to be a topic on here...

[vanfullofretards]

Fuck yes TuRbOnAzI!!

[lord_casek]

http://i16.tinypic.com/6z78ih2.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool

2+2


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/06/giyus_megaphone/

[yumone]

hahahaha thats pretty fucking interesting isnt it

[Juan Fuentes]

we should get those megaphone programs and e-whoop the zionists big time...

restricted to anyone not signed in, that by the way, to get in one should be known, recommended, and quized.

posting on threads, making videos, sending e-mails. et cetera



there's a whole bunch of unawared people/new net users that can fall for their tricks.
i dont have the skills to start such thing....someone should consider this idea.

[xmitochondriax]

There's nothing revolutionary about Ron Paul.

He wants to make abortion illegal and fucking build a wall around our Mexican border.

I take back my first statement.

But I stand by the fact that I don't want to join a fascist revolution. (It's all very Hitlerian to me. . .)

[yumone]

pfffft it's 'Hitlerian' is it?

yeah look at all those brown shirts parading for Ron Paul, oh wait they just seem to be regular mums and dads walking with prams and little kids in support of a politician they happen to like. Look at the massive marketing and PR (propaganda) campaigns that people like Hildog have if you want to see Hitlerian, Ron Paul is just grass roots popularity

[lord_casek]

There's nothing revolutionary about Ron Paul.

He wants to make abortion illegal and fucking build a wall around our Mexican border.

I take back my first statement.

But I stand by the fact that I don't want to join a fascist revolution. (It's all very Hitlerian to me. . .)

this whole quote ^ is just trash. you know it, too.
hitlerian? ha!


and may i ask you who is your solution? who will bring the u.s. back to it's once great standing in the world? who will save us, oh wise one?

p.s.: as for the wall....so you want our country to be virtually invaded? la raza? for the race everything, for the rest nothing? is that it? you la mecha? you want the whites and blacks dead? what is it? you like the idea of having an open border so the coyotes can sneak in real terrorists?

[MY ROTTING LIVER]

I must be confused. Am I to gather that your pic/post above justifying white pride and this tirade against Mexican rights (La Raza is not a hateful position by the way, and I'm white) is a stance you support? I don't give a shit that some Neo Nazi douche bags made a donation so I won't hit you up on that, but whats that post about?

I just think it's funny that you guys are incapable of explaining the 'how' when pushed on your ideas. I share your views about Israel for example, but can any of you provide info about how this program actually effects anything? I asked how Ron Paul would use his positions to influence law under the frame work of the constitution and I don't have an answer - this either says a lot about the man or speaks to my point about his supporters.

[angelofdeath]

There's nothing revolutionary about Ron Paul.

He wants to make abortion illegal and fucking build a wall around our Mexican border.

I take back my first statement.

But I stand by the fact that I don't want to join a fascist revolution. (It's all very Hitlerian to me. . .)

like so many, you are worried about a leaky faucet when the whole damn house is burning down. but whatever.

[angelofdeath]

"I asked how Ron Paul would use his positions to influence law under the frame work of the constitution and I don't have an answer - this either says a lot about the man or speaks to my point about his supporters."

he would have great influence on bills that go through congress, just like all presidents. he would, constitutionally use what is available to him. as commander in chief he could bring the troops home. he could refuse to use any of the patriot act, military commissions act or do anything unconstitutional. he probably could pretty much cease the war on drugs from within and do alot with the limiting the Atf's power. he would be appointing pro constitution judges. overturn executive orders, or cease to enforce them.

he cant, constitutionally, dismantle the whole federal bureaucracy, but he can do something. he would have the bully pulpit. he could plant the seeds of liberty in the american people again. its possible.

[lord_casek]

I must be confused. Am I to gather that your pic/post above justifying white pride and this tirade against Mexican rights (La Raza is not a hateful position by the way, and I'm white) is a stance you support? I don't give a shit that some Neo Nazi douche bags made a donation so I won't hit you up on that, but whats that post about?

I just think it's funny that you guys are incapable of explaining the 'how' when pushed on your ideas. I share your views about Israel for example, but can any of you provide info about how this program actually effects anything? I asked how Ron Paul would use his positions to influence law under the frame work of the constitution and I don't have an answer - this either says a lot about the man or speaks to my point about his supporters.


la raza is a hateful position my friend. and no, i am not a racist.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

Where does it say that Ron wants to make abortion illegal?

He wants to leave it up to the states to decide if they want to or not to allow abortion in their own state.

How will he get his agenda passed? Is that the question now?

Listen, the amount of people behind this man at this point is staggering. As time goes on and his popularity gains he will of course gain more support. Most people I know don't even know of him, and when I fill them in on his positions, or they decided to do further research on their own. Most of them thank me for introducing them to the guy, and wonder why they haven't heard of him before.

His agenda will pass simply because the people want it to. If congress tries to block what he does, we apply the pressure, for those people that hold seats, if they would like to continue to hold those seats, they will do what we tell them.

Again this is in an ideal society with out fraud and the like.

As far as the man wanting to keep America, America, what is wrong with that? I really don't understand.

Do you people want a NAU? Do you want to be considered as the same nation as Mexico and Canada?

I am not a racist in any way shape or form. I let people decide for me how I look at them on an individual basis. However it scares the fuck out of me how our borders are. I could give you countless examples on how normal citizens here in the states get completely fucked over by illegal immigrants. So to say the man wants to close up the borders or anything is racist is complete and utter bullshit.

For all the latino people in this country to even think that's racist is also a crock of shit. You want to live here, do it the right way and become a citizen. Like everyone else.

[Juan Fuentes]

what kind of man cares if abortion is illegal?
a feminist?
yes, they exist.

...

now you tell me you neither want death sentences, then go to the homo dungeon thread and post flicks of your room.

[the.crooked]

Where does it say that Ron wants to make abortion illegal?

He wants to leave it up to the states to decide if they want to or not to allow abortion in their own state.

How will he get his agenda passed? Is that the question now?

Listen, the amount of people behind this man at this point is staggering. As time goes on and his popularity gains he will of course gain more support. Most people I know don't even know of him, and when I fill them in on his positions, or they decided to do further research on their own. Most of them thank me for introducing them to the guy, and wonder why they haven't heard of him before.

His agenda will pass simply because the people want it to. If congress tries to block what he does, we apply the pressure, for those people that hold seats, if they would like to continue to hold those seats, they will do what we tell them.

Again this is in an ideal society with out fraud and the like.

As far as the man wanting to keep America, America, what is wrong with that? I really don't understand.

Do you people want a NAU? Do you want to be considered as the same nation as Mexico and Canada?

I am not a racist in any way shape or form. I let people decide for me how I look at them on an individual basis. However it scares the fuck out of me how our borders are. I could give you countless examples on how normal citizens here in the states get completely fucked over by illegal immigrants. So to say the man wants to close up the borders or anything is racist is complete and utter bullshit.

For all the latino people in this country to even think that's racist is also a crock of shit. You want to live here, do it the right way and become a citizen. Like everyone else.

Like everyone else? Did you go through the process of becoming a citizen? Did I?


no.

It is by pure luck that we are born into our nationality. National identity is one of the most arbitrary stupid contrived bullshit things we have in this world. It has only ever led to difference, war and xenophobic tendencies.

In all honesty it amazes me that people think different countries in general are a good idea.

What the fuck is wrong with everyone?

Don't you people read science fiction at all?

Don't you all see the inevitability of one formal government?


Closing up the borders is an antiquated solution. In my humble (with the caveat of my regular arrogance) opinion. To actually be progressive and deal with the inevitabilities of a global culture is what should happen.

I would also ask people to start not referring to them as "illegal aliens" not in so much as it is not the correct term, but I am curious to see what happens to people's views after stopping using such a dehumanizing term.


Just a possibility. What if in the threads of crossfire we just stopped using the phrase for a while. Refer to them as people. As actual human beings.


I bet you will start to notice the commodification of a peoples that shows through in the language about them.



And juan-


What the hell are you talking about.


Do you even know what feminism as a academic and cultural movement is?


A male who supports abortion is a male who has a rational understanding of the intricacies and complexities of life such that sometimes it is better not to bring someone into the world than force them into a bullshit life.


Also as far as the notion of Ron Paul's want relegate all these issues to states rights, sure. Let us think about if he actually pulls all this off. Even giving ILMB's ideal congress (which, let us not kid ourselves, will never happen, because people lack the cognizance to realize their votes only actually count at the local level). So say he does throw allllll these issues back to the states.


What happens when one state decides that abortion is illegal and the one next to it says it isn't. A female living int he former decides she wants an abortion. She travels to the next state, gets it done. Comes back. Someone makes the case she broke the law. Well, did she? Does another person have the right to attack her and the action she made in a place where the action itself was completely legal? Or is the woman in the wrong, because she broke the statutes of her community, regardless of the legality of where she did.

This is just one of an infinitude of complex issues that would lead to a more fractured and fissured country than already exists.

We had the articles of confederation once, and it failed.

Let us not repeat the same process because it has been long enough that we forgot why we wrote the constitution at all.


And dont go hoppin on me about well yeah lets actually refer to a literal interpretation of it. Come the fuck on. Did the constitution ever talk about the internet? Did the constitution talk about the rights of supposed terrorists who are really just brown skinned people that the government chooses to target? etc.


Literal interpretations of the constitution are just as incapable of dealing with today's

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

Like everyone else? Did you go through the process of becoming a citizen? Did I?


no.

It is by pure luck that we are born into our nationality. National identity is one of the most arbitrary stupid contrived bullshit things we have in this world. It has only ever led to difference, war and xenophobic tendencies.

Of course I did not go through the process of becoming a citizen I was born here. My parents were legal citizens of this country as was their parents etc and etc, and when my family did come here from foreign soil, they went through the process at the time to become a legal citizen of this country however less difficult it may have been at the time.

I don't see how you can call being proud of where you come from as "arbitrary" and "stupid." To each his own though.

As far as war and xenophobic tendencies are concerned, a one world government will not solve violence or inner feelings of angst towards another person because of their skin color, their customs, or where they happened to be born. The only thing that might get rid of those things is education, and I doubt educating every living person on the planet would do it either.

We are animals. We may be the most dominate and smartest animal to ever touch this earth, but that is what we are. It's time to realize that feelings of that nature are just natural. It is natural to be scared of someone who is different from you, why? Because they are different. You do not know what to expect, what they may or not be capable of, or how they will accept you. Or on the extreme scale, if they will do harm to you. Physically or any other way a person could hurt you.


In all honesty it amazes me that people think different countries in general are a good idea.

What the fuck is wrong with everyone?

Don't you people read science fiction at all?

Don't you all see the inevitability of one formal government?

I believe the different customs people have all over the world is part of the reason that humans have developed to where we are today. If you have everyone doing the same routines, believing the same things and living their lives day to day the same way, how would things change? Or progress?

I don't believe a world government would work. At least not in this point in time. People are too diverse. They have to many harsh feelings for other people.

If you want to get ultra conspiracy theory with me for a moment. Ya if a few billion people were killed, perhaps a world government would work fine. I however do not feel like sacrificing myself to try? Do you?

As far as using science fiction as your basis to say it is inevitable for a one world government well...:rolleyes:




Closing up the borders is an antiquated solution. In my humble (with the caveat of my regular arrogance) opinion. To actually be progressive and deal with the inevitabilities of a global culture is what should happen.

I would also ask people to start not referring to them as "illegal aliens" not in so much as it is not the correct term, but I am curious to see what happens to people's views after stopping using such a dehumanizing term.


Just a possibility. What if in the threads of crossfire we just stopped using the phrase for a while. Refer to them as people. As actual human beings.


I bet you will start to notice the commodification of a peoples that shows through in the language about them.

I don't see how securing the country is a antiquated solution. Perhaps if you are thinking of it in the ways the politicians in Washington at the moment think it should be done, with a wall or fence yes. However as far as "national security" is concerned it essential to stop any "terrorist acts" from happening again.

I used quotes around "terrorist acts" because compared to most places on planet earth. There is an extremely low amount of "terrorist acts" that are carried out here in the US, and most of those that are successfully carried out here, have lots of evidence of US government agencies being involved carrying out those attacks. I am also not just talking about 9/11. Check the bombings at the WTC in 93 as well as Oklahoma city etc and etc.

Here is an example of what I was talking about in my previous post about regular citizens getting fucked over by those lovely "people".

http://timesrepublican.com/page/content.detail/id/500306.html?nav=5004

As far as my previous remark. I do not apply what this individual did to every person that comes here, so I do not want that to be confused as a racist remark. I'm just saying this is an example of what is happening and it needs to stop. I could also tell several more similar stories that I've seen happened to the people around me.

As far as everything else you said. I don't know. There would be a lot of things to iron out. But those would be problems that we would be dealing with at home. The only problems we should really be concerned about. Right now it seems as if we aren't really concerned about anything that is going on here. We may talk about things but nothing really changes or improves, it just gets talked about more.

Ron Paul will turn this ship around and send it on the right course. He is the ONLY candidate that I will say is capable of doing this. Except for maybe Dennis Kucinich but at this point I would probably say it is seriously impossible for him to win. Ron Paul at least has a chance.

Everyone else will most likely just continue us down this path we are headed, right into the eye of the storm.

[lord_casek]

i would have given you uber props if you would have posted a tom tomorrow comic to explain a point.

[Zig]

Like everyone else? Did you go through the process of becoming a citizen? Did I?


yea, actually i did go through the process of becoming an american citizen. you see my parents were both immigrants coming here from different countries, they met here in America after THEY went through the process of becoming citizens of this country. no my parents are not illegal, they are legal citizens of the United States of America. then i was born into this world right here in this country, thats how i became a citizen. my parents didn't come here illegally, they did it the way it was supposed to be done. i have family from all different countries, France, Puerto Rico, Trinidad, India, Germany, and if any one of them steps foot into this country to live here they've become legal citizens. my brother in law didn't have his green card for a long time, but he married my sister and had a baby with her and now he's a citizen of this country. nothing illegal going on there. no luck involved.

maybe national identity is bull shit to you, because clearly you don't comprehend how important America is, or what America stands for. and i'm not talking about the bullshit patriotism that is propagated in the mainstream media, i'm talking about the constitution and the bill of rights and the idealogy's of our founding fathers.


In all honesty it amazes me that people think different countries in general are a good idea.


no, what amazes me is how someone like you could make a comment like this. or a comment like this:


Don't you all see the inevitability of one formal government?


i'm sorry crooked, i fail to see the inevitability of a one world government. because unlike you i fail to get down on my knees and give up my sovereignty and my independence to "inevitability". what the fuck is really wrong with you? don't act like we're the ones with problems, when you're over here saying that one world government is inevitable. your damn right i watch science fiction, and i've seen some scary shit son let me tell you.

you seem to be misunderstanding though. you're speaking of global culture, and global governance. i feel you that we are one planet, we are one people, countries and borders just divide us and seperate us, etc. etc. i believe your just naive to the importance of individual liberty and sovereignty. it's what americans have fought and died for over the centuries to protect. its why we formed this country in independence to europe, to escape tyranny. you fail to comprehend that tyranny and evil exists in this world, and that is why independence and sovereignty is sacred to us. this illegal alien immigration shit isn't about racism or any of that nonsense. it's about the independence and sovereignty of our nation. we don't want to be merged with mexico, we don't want to be merged with canada. this is america. our politicians aren't doing shit about our borders because they aren't concerned about our independence. the people are concerned.


Let us not repeat the same process because it has been long enough that we forgot why we wrote the constitution at all.

And dont go hoppin on me about well yeah lets actually refer to a literal interpretation of it. Come the fuck on. Did the constitution ever talk about the internet? Did the constitution talk about the rights of supposed terrorists who are really just brown skinned people that the government chooses to target? etc.


seriously, wtf are you talking about. i don't care if every politician in Washington D.C forgot the constitution of the united states existed...which seems to be the case right now. i won't forget, my family won't forget, my friends won't forget and the people of this country will never forget why the constitution was written. the constitution doesn't need to include things like the internet, or terrorists. its irrelevant. the constitution is speaking of individual liberty and freedom. it's a blueprint for freedom that no organization or government can infringe upon. you're fucking right it doesn't include anything about the rights of an individual group of people, like "terrorists".

[yumone]

what kind of man cares if abortion is illegal?
a feminist?
yes, they exist.
.

the kind of man that feels empathy for a woman and responsibility for a child they have created, you fucking coward

[Seph]

owned

[the.crooked]

Of course I did not go through the process of becoming a citizen I was born here. My parents were legal citizens of this country as was their parents etc and etc, and when my family did come here from foreign soil, they went through the process at the time to become a legal citizen of this country however less difficult it may have been at the time.

I don't see how you can call being proud of where you come from as "arbitrary" and "stupid." To each his own though.

As far as war and xenophobic tendencies are concerned, a one world government will not solve violence or inner feelings of angst towards another person because of their skin color, their customs, or where they happened to be born. The only thing that might get rid of those things is education, and I doubt educating every living person on the planet would do it either.

We are animals. We may be the most dominate and smartest animal to ever touch this earth, but that is what we are. It's time to realize that feelings of that nature are just natural. It is natural to be scared of someone who is different from you, why? Because they are different. You do not know what to expect, what they may or not be capable of, or how they will accept you. Or on the extreme scale, if they will do harm to you. Physically or any other way a person could hurt you.




I believe the different customs people have all over the world is part of the reason that humans have developed to where we are today. If you have everyone doing the same routines, believing the same things and living their lives day to day the same way, how would things change? Or progress?

I don't believe a world government would work. At least not in this point in time. People are too diverse. They have to many harsh feelings for other people.

If you want to get ultra conspiracy theory with me for a moment. Ya if a few billion people were killed, perhaps a world government would work fine. I however do not feel like sacrificing myself to try? Do you?

As far as using science fiction as your basis to say it is inevitable for a one world government well...:rolleyes:






I don't see how securing the country is a antiquated solution. Perhaps if you are thinking of it in the ways the politicians in Washington at the moment think it should be done, with a wall or fence yes. However as far as "national security" is concerned it essential to stop any "terrorist acts" from happening again.

I used quotes around "terrorist acts" because compared to most places on planet earth. There is an extremely low amount of "terrorist acts" that are carried out here in the US, and most of those that are successfully carried out here, have lots of evidence of US government agencies being involved carrying out those attacks. I am also not just talking about 9/11. Check the bombings at the WTC in 93 as well as Oklahoma city etc and etc.

Here is an example of what I was talking about in my previous post about regular citizens getting fucked over by those lovely "people".

http://timesrepublican.com/page/content.detail/id/500306.html?nav=5004

As far as my previous remark. I do not apply what this individual did to every person that comes here, so I do not want that to be confused as a racist remark. I'm just saying this is an example of what is happening and it needs to stop. I could also tell several more similar stories that I've seen happened to the people around me.

As far as everything else you said. I don't know. There would be a lot of things to iron out. But those would be problems that we would be dealing with at home. The only problems we should really be concerned about. Right now it seems as if we aren't really concerned about anything that is going on here. We may talk about things but nothing really changes or improves, it just gets talked about more.

Ron Paul will turn this ship around and send it on the right course. He is the ONLY candidate that I will say is capable of doing this. Except for maybe Dennis Kucinich but at this point I would probably say it is seriously impossible for him to win. Ron Paul at least has a chance.

Everyone else will most likely just continue us down this path we are headed, right into the eye of the storm.

My point about nationalities is that they are purely political in essence. They are not imbued by god, or any other sort of divine province. They are things we make, that we maintain because we think they mean something.

I ask you when the last time this country was filled with the ideals you so place upon it. When was the last time this country was a bastion of good thinking and rational governance?

What the hell is it to even be a "citizen" in this country anymore?

You call me naive because I look towards an ideal that you rebuke because it seems impossible. Yet the very reason we are in this thread is because all you people think Ron Paul will be the savior of this country. Ron Paul is not thinking forward, homeboy is tryin to bring it back, back to shit that this country can no longer be.

"If you want to get ultra conspiracy theory with me for a moment. Ya if a few billion people were killed, perhaps a world government would work fine. I however do not feel like sacrificing myself to try? Do you?"

You are absolutely right. All the things I talk bout world government, etc. it will take some sort of cataclysmic catalyst to show how fuckin arbitrary nationality really is. Now I recognize the difference between ethnicity and nationality. That is what needs to be seen. There should be no necessary connection to the government we have and the cultural society we have come from.

I figure it will be the next big war, or aliens showing up that could act as such a catalyst.


Moving back to the practical:

Walls, fences and other things like that are incapable of making things work. Let us only look to Palestine for that point. Are we to force such an inequity between the countries that doesn't already exist? What does that do to help us?

Also, do you really think America, single handedly will be able to keep up with developing institutions like EU? We are obviously seeing the downturn of our economic structure. Credit has ruined this country and there ain't an end in sight. Until people start defaulting in large numbers on their credit cards we are going to continue to see the ubiquity of overspending, foreclosures, the necessary injection of foreign money to back the credit given out, and the dropping value of the dollar.

America is fucked. Straight up. And we need to look to something better than just "lets ask the constitution" or "lets make it states rights."

We have some serious shit to consider and those two things are not the solution.

[Juan Fuentes]

yo!
take a look at this, the zionists have started.

http://www.podblanc.com/?q=node/10504

they are saying we, ron paul supporters, should be killed.

[thinksmall]

Uhm yeah crooked.. The walls in Palestine is apartheid, which destroys sovereignty. I dont understand you dawg. Why are you supporting the people who have no trust in you. for the sake of more efficient progress?

Sure theres gonna be a day far from now when every country is settled with fusion energy and unlimited water resource. A day when nationality isn't really that important. Everyone conscious, trustworthy, knowledgeable, compassionate, happy. Point is... that day will come when or if science and technology brings us there.

^ That warm and fuzzy future will happen through diversity, correcting each others mistakes until the only mistakes left haven't happened yet.

A one world government is completely different, it advances in policy - which i guess works. Though, everyone will be unconscious, ignorant tools (whom i guess could be compassionate and happy by conception). Not only that, science and technology might never reach to the state where fusion energy and unlimited water resource is available. Humans will obediently go from planet to planet for resources, eventually destroying a lot of the universe.

^That ploppin' future will happen if diversity is destroyed.

[yumone]

yo!
take a look at this, the zionists have started.

http://www.podblanc.com/?q=node/10504

they are saying we, ron paul supporters, should be killed.

post some more white supremacy blogs you fucking racist fool

[Juan Fuentes]

i dont understand your anger, yum.
im racist? i dont know when and how ive been racist. please clarify.


i got that link from an islamic forum.
its the video what i saw and wanted to show. i dont take any commentaries or reviews because i can think for myself.

[lord_casek]

on "meet the press"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

That's Freedom to Fascism homie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saDw03JXigA Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgTqSu-ZVFM Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-iJP4BAAQ4 Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCSY438wpCk Part 4

[the_gooch]

forget it, i foind my anwser.

[vanfullofretards]

It's awesome that Ron Paul is getting onto all these major news shows, but I really don't find it necessary to watch them. I already know all the things he stands for.

[lord_casek]

That's Freedom to Fascism homie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saDw03JXigA Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgTqSu-ZVFM Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-iJP4BAAQ4 Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCSY438wpCk Part 4

you are correct. i posted a link that was on my clipboard. thanks.


and to whomever said they no longer need to watch him on tv shows,
it's fun to watch him own people like cavuto. great fun.
it's also telling about how the media works.

[the.crooked]

Uhm yeah crooked.. The walls in Palestine is apartheid, which destroys sovereignty. I dont understand you dawg. Why are you supporting the people who have no trust in you. for the sake of more efficient progress?

Sure theres gonna be a day far from now when every country is settled with fusion energy and unlimited water resource. A day when nationality isn't really that important. Everyone conscious, trustworthy, knowledgeable, compassionate, happy. Point is... that day will come when or if science and technology brings us there.

^ That warm and fuzzy future will happen through diversity, correcting each others mistakes until the only mistakes left haven't happened yet.

A one world government is completely different, it advances in policy - which i guess works. Though, everyone will be unconscious, ignorant tools (whom i guess could be compassionate and happy by conception). Not only that, science and technology might never reach to the state where fusion energy and unlimited water resource is available. Humans will obediently go from planet to planet for resources, eventually destroying a lot of the universe.

^That ploppin' future will happen if diversity is destroyed.

Every future needs a prophet. I am just tryin to push the future I see.

[thinksmall]

You're being very vague. My current understanding is that you're a fascist.

[the.crooked]

thats unfortunate.

you people are so quick to throw labels on to thoughts.


i am not talking about controlling people.

i am talking about getting rid of things that most people use to control people.

eg, nationality and patriotism.

[the.crooked]

Fascism would be if I forced people to like only this country and to fear others for no reason other than them being born in another country.

[lord_casek]

yeah, the crooked is definitely not a fascist. he's a futurist. but no like bradbury, more modern.
i'm not familiar with many of the modern futurists, but i'd guess the crooked is most in line with one of them.

vote for ron paul, nukkas.

[the.crooked]

check me on the Heinlein status.

thats more my future.

[thinksmall]

lol okay. Im still kinda confused. I can see how nationality and patriotism can be used to control people, but I feel like thats the most basic view. It is totally possible to live diversely in harmony.

Independence can control people too, but with good ethics one can make better decisions.

[the.crooked]

we are at very different points in the process of considering these things it seems.

[angelofdeath]

i think paul handled russert pretty good despite his misquotes and russert just being nothing more than a mouthpeice for moscow on the potomac and its empire.

[MY ROTTING LIVER]

Good interview...

[lord_casek]

i think paul handled russert pretty good despite his misquotes and russert just being nothing more than a mouthpeice for moscow on the potomac and its empire.



i just popped on the tv while i was eating and saw the newscaster blurb about paul on russert.
they showed a clip of dr. paul speaking about dumping the income tax and then she said "by the way, paul has no intention of replacing the income tax with any other form of tax" like it's a bad thing.

[Balance]

ayo i loved ron paul up until the Meet the Press interview the other morning where he said that he wanted to abolish government run public education...

like come on now dude, libertarianism is interesting and cool to examine and think about, but actually put into action, especially after a neo-conservative administration bureaucracy, theres no way in hell that shits gonna work.

i think more than anything, hes the more true republican in the republican field by staying true to the traditional republican platform, not the christianity and morals based platform of the last 20-30 years. fiscal conservative, small government, and staying withdrawn from foreign affairs, dudes an Eisenhower republican which is dope, dont get me wrong, but i think theres no way it'd work today and which all the shit we've got ourselves into over the last 8 years, theres gonna need to be substantial repair and negotiations through our federal government with other countries and within our own

[lord_casek]

libertarian just means (and i know you must understand this) someone who stands on the side of liberty. i hate how people flash that word around like it means the same thing as liberal.

he is an old school republican. and that means get the govt out of our schools. look how much damage they are doing by putting their noses into it (among other things).
you can pretty much guarantee failure when our govt puts its nose into places it doesn't belong.

dr. paul doesn't want to get rid of this all at once. you have to understand that. one thing at a time. we move slowly and transition out of this so it won't have an impact on our country.

[the.crooked]

No one addressed either of my concerns about actually getting congress to back what he does or about the complexity of moving all these issues to states rights.


I await real answers.

[Balance]

yeah i dont think that libertarian equates to being liberal, im just saying that phasing out public schooling doesnt seem practical and just isnt logically sound either. the public school system, which i dont know alot about, needs to be retasked and reworked so shits not as fucked up as it is now, but getting rid of the institution of public education is ridiculous to me. if people wanna go to private schools and pay for non-government run education, by all means, but you can't eliminate it for everyone unless there is a pretty damn comprehensive plan to ensure the education to those that couldn't afford going to private schools.

[yumone]

Fter clicking on one of the posted youtube links in the wtc conspiracy theory thread i noticed all of the related links to this stupid 9/11 conspiracy video were to videos of Ron Paul, Also Ron Paul was mentioned by name on one of the videos for absolutely no reason whatsoever. In my opinion this association (probably unwanted on his part) between Ron Paul and 9/11 truthers is going to harm his campaign dramatically in the long run.

[lord_casek]

Fter clicking on one of the posted youtube links in the wtc conspiracy theory thread i noticed all of the related links to this stupid 9/11 conspiracy video were to videos of Ron Paul, Also Ron Paul was mentioned by name on one of the videos for absolutely no reason whatsoever. In my opinion this association (probably unwanted on his part) between Ron Paul and 9/11 truthers is going to harm his campaign dramatically in the long run.


truthers only like him because he said he wasn't satisfied with the official investigation.
that is the connection. nothing weird about it.

and to be frank, i think maybe they want people to know that is his position on the matter
because of the upcoming elections.

[Juan Fuentes]

i personally think 911 activism should be stopped and replaced with Ron Paul activism until God willing he wins.
Ron Paul will help an independent investigation take place more than the street activism people do about 911.
yet im not saying HIDE 911 truth completly.


they have tried 100s of times to hurt his reputation with 911 truth, only the wicked fall for it.
truthers like him because he doesnt want a big government. truthers know the main reason 911 happened was because government had the power to do it.

[angelofdeath]

i think abolition of the youth propaghanda camps, aka, public schools, would be in america's interest.
but russert was demogoging the issue. the president nor the federal government, constitutionally, has no authority intervene in local schools. public schools are a relatively new thing. ron paul, as well as just about any constitutionalist's position, is to get the feds out of local public schooling. the reason why, is the same principle of decentralization equaling more liberty. each locality would get control what to teach thier kids. localities would differ, and would actually compete for which type of citizens they want to live there. the san fran hippy types could teach what they want and the mountain states could teach what they want.

of course groups would differ on certain things, but with liberty you have to be tolerant of other views.

i know i know, if ron paul abolished the dept of ed, then he would appoint that storm front guy to be the fuhrer of the new ministry of education and teach kids that nazi's are totally bad ass.

[the.crooked]

of course groups would differ on certain things, but with liberty you have to be tolerant of other views.


You are absolutely ridiculous.


Have we ever used our liberty to tolerate people?

[angelofdeath]

allow me to elaborate on this statement.

"of course groups would differ on certain things, but with liberty you have to be tolerant of other views. "

when i said that, what i meant to say, is that if you live in california and teach that mary jane smoking is awesome, and in idaho, they teach teetotalism, neither state has a right to use force to control the other states business.

[the.crooked]

Ok, thanks.


On that note though, I wonder how much that will work though.


I think of the issues the country had with the Articles of Confederation and different currencies, different tarrifs, etc. and I can only imagine them being compounded in versions of the same arguments but about incongruous legislation.

I just do not think this country could survive in the fashion you are speaking of.

[angelofdeath]

i think that if articles were amended like they were supposed to be at the philadelphia convention, the minor problems could of been worked out. but this is not saying that either the constitution or the articles are perfect. but one thing is for sure, the constitution surely hasnt worked. apparently you cant successfully restrain the .gov.

but i would rather have some quarrels over which states accept which foreign gold peices than an empire, an out of control bureaucracy in DC, and severely diminished personal liberty.

[the.crooked]

you are missing the point that each state could just as easily diminish personal liberty as well.

[lord_casek]

you are missing the point that each state could just as easily diminish personal liberty as well.

no, personal liberty is an inalienable right. they cannot extinguish it.

[angelofdeath]

"you are missing the point that each state could just as easily diminish personal liberty as well."

without a doubt brother.
thing is if authority is dispersed as much as possible you have the liberty to move to a more friendly area. liberty havens would develop and police states would develop. if power is decentralized as possible, the tyranny is much more tolerable.

who would you rather go up against... andy from mayberry or a '3 lettered agency that doesnt exists' with the full force of the hugest military industrial complex in the whole world?

[the.crooked]

EDIT- this is directed towards casek.

Cmon, lets not kid ourselves here. Just because some old dudes said our liberties are inalienable does not mean they can not restrict them.

Just as you guys are bitching about the macroscopic diminution of rights by the fed, if you relegated these issues to the state it is just as possible that the STATE INSTITUTION, let me repeat, INSTITUTION, could at a microscopic level just as easily impose the same structures in their own legislature. You act as if state government is so different from the fed. It really isn't.

[the.crooked]

"you are missing the point that each state could just as easily diminish personal liberty as well."

without a doubt brother.
thing is if authority is dispersed as much as possible you have the liberty to move to a more friendly area. liberty havens would develop and police states would develop. if power is decentralized as possible, the tyranny is much more tolerable.

who would you rather go up against... andy from mayberry or a '3 lettered agency that doesnt exists' with the full force of the hugest military industrial complex in the whole world?

I would prefer to slip through the cracks in the larger system. To use my understanding of how fucked it is to get by, rather than get necessarily caught in a potentially worse police state.


I am unclear how you can say tyranny is tolerable in any way. I wouldn't think somethin like that would come from you of all people.

[the.crooked]

What happens when one state decides to start allowing indentured servitude again? Does the state next door have the right to attack in the name of human rights? etc.


Loose confederation of states will do nothing to help strengthen America in the coming years.

[lord_casek]

crooked: that is why we have guns....to avoid such "situations"

[SayOne]

Well I am an independent with moderate to conservative views. I’ve seen young people who would seem more on the democrat side of things throwing around the Ron Paul stickers pamphlets and all that shit. Never heard of him and figured he was democrat but was shocked to know he is a republican, which younger folk usually despise. (face it its true) I personally lean towards the right more often in terms of foreign policy and for the simple premise of making government smaller, which unfortunately means that some social programs get cut. Welfare should not be taken out completely; it should be regulated much more. When I was kid, we rocked the government cheese and peanut butter and the generic cans that say USDA Pork. However, we used it as a supplement until we were able to get back on our feet. That’s how it should be. A fall back till you get back up, not something permanent. I knew friends that paid a dollar for rent and had like 6 brothers and sisters, moms didn’t have a job and/or didn’t even bother looking for one. They had better clothes than me and all that shit. Anyways I'm rambling now. I read Ron Paul’s site and his stances on issues and agree 100% with him on the immigration shit. My parents came from Guatemala and were immigrants me and my brother and my sister where born in NY. My family came here legally. Sure it takes awhile and I think that can be something that can be changed. I agree with him on most of his views except for his foreign policy. I feel that we should have bases around the world in our allies’ countries (if they let us) because it is protecting our country. My cousin was stationed in South Korea, close to our "enemy". WARNING: HEAVY EBONICS AHEAD (I gotta break it down) So if shit goes down we got niggas there to run up in that bitch and take care of business. Its logic. The world is just one big ass neighborhood and were the US gang. We got niggas across town that are our boys, Britain, and we other cats that’s down with us. Some little hater niggas came to our block and caught us sleepin (Taliban). So we said fuck these niggas we rounded up the troops and our boys and said lets get these fucks.and we sorta did but then for some reason we saw some other niggas that we scrapped with before (Iraq) and heard they had some big gats so we was like Yo fuck lets get these niggas too. Why? Basically, we was shook, we got caught sleepin, so any nigga lookin at us hard was gettin it. Last time niggas caught us sleeping we got real gutta and dropped nuclear weapons on some cats (Japan) I mean its really weird when you think about it we proved to the world that were really willing to drop nukes on heads. WE REALLY DID IT. The whole block saw that shit and said DAMN!!! Yo, you saw THAT?? WHATT!!!! Man I aint never seen that before!! Its like some Keyser Soze shit, we had the will to do what other niggas wouldn’t do, The Russians was on some gorilla pimp shit. They were head to head with us but never pulled out.. We was flashing our new guns and throwing up signs and all that stupid shit but unfortunately they weren’t hustling hard enough to pay for those guns and we won that. Russia lost some hoes from there stable (Germany uniting again, the Stan countries, I’m not calling you hoes either its just for illustration purposes) now I am really ranting so ill stop. To sum it all up so far this guy is looking the best so far cuz I do not want any of these democrat candidates in office, there too weak in my eyes.

[lord_casek]

that is pretty cool, sayone. i'm glad found ron paul.

[lord_casek]

haha NY times had to do a retraction
http://themedium.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/26/editors-note-the-ron-paul-vid-lash/

[the.crooked]

crooked: that is why we have guns....to avoid such "situations"

:::shakes head:::


you have fun with that. Im'a get rich and get out this bitch.

[angelofdeath]

i agree with you crooked that any government is essentially the negation of liberty, but i for one would rather have to deal with andy from mayberry than the hitlers of the world, the united nations, DC, state governments, etc. not to mention, influencing a small county, township or even state governments are much easier to guarantee the right of self government.

but none of this negates the fact that state governments run amok.... hell my state is practically run by communists and that is why, i, like you am saving to get out this bitch. (state not country)

[lord_casek]

crooked: http://www.reason.tv/video/show/178.html

[vanfullofretards]

^^^^^ Ummm why doesn't Andrew Napolitano run for president?

He seems to be able to enthrall people a lot more effectively than Ron Paul.

[angelofdeath]

napolitano is awesome. i've been a follower of his for a long while and couldnt believe he was saying what he says on fox and the neo con talking heads like oreilly, hannity and limbaugh, actually are supportive of the guy even though he stands for pretty much everything they dont.

only one problem with him though..... he's been giving that same damn speech at various organizations for about 6 months now!

[the.crooked]

and the neo con talking heads like oreilly, hannity and limbaugh, actually are supportive of the guy even though he stands for pretty much everything they dont.

This does not bode well for my opinion of him.

[lord_casek]

napolitano is awesome. i've been a follower of his for a long while and couldnt believe he was saying what he says on fox and the neo con talking heads like oreilly, hannity and limbaugh, actually are supportive of the guy even though he stands for pretty much everything they dont.

only one problem with him though..... he's been giving that same damn speech at various organizations for about 6 months now!

didn't he write a book? he held something up during the first part of that speech.
i kinda figured he was somewhat pitching a book. but yeah, he's a good speaker.

[vanfullofretards]

Yeah, its called A Nation of Sheep.

look what I just found off Wiki...

He has been mentioned as a possible vice presidential running mate for Ron Paul, if Paul receives the 2008 Republican Party presidential nomination.

That is going to be fucking raw.

[lord_casek]

wow. napolitano and paul would be interesting as a team.

[angelofdeath]

i've been reading his books for years. the first one, constitutional chaos surprised me because i sort of thought he was just a decent fox talking head. then constiitution in exile came out and i was like...'shit, this guy is good...'
now nation of sheep, he is awesome. he is, as lew rockwell said on his blog, 'one of us.'

[the.crooked]

Y'all speak of this like it is a sport.

[Fondles]

why is it so hard for people to see that we are not supposed to sacrifice our liberty and rights for the sake of "security"


ron paul 08

[the.crooked]

BAH!

[Juan Fuentes]

Mike Huckabee - "Paul is dead" (short version) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xQz2ACROkw)

[the_gooch]

I got this email today, just thought I'd pass it on to anyone interested in getting involved if they already aren't:

TWO PHASE ACTION ALERT:

Once again Fox news is attempting to squeeze out Ron Paul from their "Republican Presidential Forum" on January 6th.

From The Baltimore Sun:

"While campaigning in the Granite State on Saturday, Paul called Fox News, one of the debate's supposed sponsors, "scared of me." They "don't want my message to get out, but it will," according to The Boston Globe's Primary Source blog.

"They are propagandists for this war and I challenge them on the notion that they are conservative."

Kent Snyder, Paul's campaign chairman continued in a statement: "Given Ron Paul's support in New Hampshire and his recent historic fundraising success, it is outrageous that Dr. Paul would be excluded."

Jesse Benton, a campaign spokesman, said they haven't heard directly from Fox that Paul is excluded; and if so, why that happened. "We've called Fox six times and have not had our calls returned," he said.

Calls and emails to Fox News spokespersons by the Tribune were not returned Saturday evening."


YOUR ACTION (PHASE 1):


Please everyone email and call Fox news and ask why they are excluding Ron Paul, the only candidate that is FAIR AND BALANCED... tell them they are destroying their credibility, with the American people, as a news source by censoring Ron Paul.... Ask them KINDLY to include him in the Forum.


Flood their computers with messages... all of them.. there is power in the people and we have to let them know we want our candidate to have as much coverage as the rest of them get.

Start now and don't quit till you get them all...

Come on gang this needs to be done.. cross post this alert to all your groups and let's make one big bunch of messages....

TO CALL OR EMAIL FOX NEWS CHANNEL:
1-888-369-4762
TO E-MAIL GENERAL COMMENTS:
[email protected]

GENERAL FOX NEWS CHANNEL E-MAIL ADDRESSES:
America's Newsroom (http://www.foxnews.com/americasnewsroom/) - [email protected]
The Beltway Boys (http://www.foxnews.com/beltwayboys/) - [email protected]
The Big Story w/ John Gibson (http://www.foxnews.com/bigstory/index.html) [email protected]

The Big Story Weekend (http://www.foxnews.com/bigstoryweekend/)
[email protected]
The Big Story Primetime (http://www.foxnews.com/bigstoryprimetime/)
[email protected]
Bulls & Bears (http://www.foxnews.com/freedom/index.html)
[email protected]
Cashin' In (http://www.foxnews.com/freedom/index.html)
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Cavuto on Business (http://www.foxnews.com/freedom/index.html)
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FNC iMag (http://www.foxnews.com/fncimag/index.html)
[email protected] (mailto:[email protected])
Forbes on FOX (http://www.foxnews.com/freedom/index.html)
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FOX & Friends (http://www.foxnews.com/foxfriends/index.html )
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FOX Fan Central (http://www.foxnews.com/foxfan/index.html)
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FOX News Live ( http://www.foxnews.com/live/)
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FOX News Live w/ Jamie Colby (http://www.foxnews.com/live/index.html)
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FOX News Live Weekend ( http://www.foxnews.com/live/index.html)
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FOX News Specials (http://www.foxnews.com/specials/)
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FOX Report w/ Shepard Smith (http://www.foxnews.com/foxreport/index.html)
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FOX Report Weekend (http://www.foxnews.com/foxreport/)
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Hannity & Colmes (http://www.foxnews.com/hannityandcolmes/index.html)
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Heartland w/ John Kasich_ (http://www.foxnews.com/heartland/)
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The Journal Editorial Report (http://www.foxnews.com/journal/)
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The Live Desk w/ Martha MacCallum (http://www.foxnews.com/livedesk/)
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On the Record w/ Greta Van Susteren>(http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html)
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The O'Reilly Factor ( http://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/index.html)
[email protected] (mailto:[email protected])
Red Eye ( http://www.foxnews.com/redeye/)
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Special Report w/ Brit Hume (http://www.foxnews.com/specialreport/index.html)
[email protected]
Studio B w/ Shepard Smith (http://www.foxnews.com/studiob/index.html)>
[email protected]
War Stories w/ Oliver North (http://www.foxnews.com/warstories/)
[email protected]
Your World w/ Neil Cavuto (http://www.foxnews.com/yourworld/index.html)


[email protected]


YOUR ACTION (PHASE 2):

CONTACT THE NEW HAMPSHIRE GOP OFFICE (Event Co-Sponsor)

Baltimore Sun: "An official at the New Hampshire GOP, which is co-sponsoring the event with Fox, said that Paul might still be included, but the planning for the debate was still coming together and it was ultimately Fox's call."

Kindly request that they tell Fox News to invite Ron Paul to the Presidential Forum.

CALL, EMAIL, FAX!

Telephone: (603)225-9341

Fax: (603) 225-7498

http://www.nhgop.org/e-mail-us/

[email protected] - Fergus Cullen - President of NHGOP
[email protected] - Wayne MacDonald - VP of NHGOP
[email protected] - Stephen DeMaura - Executive Director NHGOP

>>FORWARD, POST, BLOG, THIS ALERT WIDE AND FAR<<



Yours in Freedom and Truth,


Gary Franchi
RTR National Director
www.RestoreTheRepublic.com


Sent from:

Restore The Republic, 3149 Dundee Rd #176, Northbrook, Illinois 60062

[SheepOrDie]

WOAH WATCH OUT!

http://madisongraffiti.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/100_1739.JPG?w=490&h=370

[lord_casek]

nice

[the_gooch]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DCAYRWIcPKQ

[MY ROTTING LIVER]

I wonder how many of you here complain about Fox News when it is supporting anti-liberal causes with bias and mis-information? Welcome.

[thecoldmidwest]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DCAYRWIcPKQ

I can't believe they're going this far

[diamond encrusted jesus]

"Paul Rivals Clinton, Raising Almost $20 Million for campaign"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aCilYJ9OUudI&refer=home

[lord_casek]

http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/RON_PAUL_WAR_ROOM

digg it up.

[lord_casek]

o'reilly "ron paul frightens me"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWde-xYYZdA

[Some1]

Ron Paul won Republican on myspace poll! Over 150,000 people voted...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080103/ts_alt_afp/usvote2008_080103140705;_ylt=AqwBSSbGgy_8Q9iIW9ShD EBB5494

[lord_casek]

fox news stocks being dumped.
http://finance.google.com/group/google.finance.25639/browse_thread/thread/435d9e08edd073d4

[lord_casek]

on larry king (unaired)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=s08RJ2_o_MM

[the.crooked]

ya'll ready for today?

[lord_casek]

ya'll ready for today?


oh yeah, iowa caucus and it's onnnnnnnnn!

[thecoldmidwest]

on larry king (unaired)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=s08RJ2_o_MM

wtf? Why unaired? :heated:

[MY ROTTING LIVER]

Ron Paul's not doing to well.

[lord_casek]

http://bravenewfilms.org/election

[diamond encrusted jesus]

seeing giuliani in last place made my day...

[the.crooked]

cough cough...

[the.crooked]

how is the revolution going?

[MY ROTTING LIVER]

Crooked - Recognize that our "winning" this conversation is not necessarily a good thing. Ron Paul is one of the best Republican candidates to come our way. Welcome to the end of the hype everyone - what can be done in the next few weeks? He still can do it...

The real question is though, where do his followers go if he loses?

[thecoldmidwest]

The real question is though, where do his followers go if he loses?
I'm voting for him in the Illinois caucus. I'm not voting if he drops out later on.

I'm not going to vote for anyone that's going to serve corporate interests....

[lord_casek]

because of ron paul, i have thought of local office in the future.
city council, whatever. it's still somewhere to start.

[boogie hands]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44334000/gif/_44334514_iowa_result203x416.gif

wow...thats actually a pretty great sign, all things considered.

of all the republicans i would most certainly take paul as a candidate though he would still be behind kucinich, obama and not voting at all due to total frustration.

[lord_casek]

http://blackboxvoting.org/

[the.crooked]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44334000/gif/_44334514_iowa_result203x416.gif

wow...thats actually a pretty great sign, all things considered.

of all the republicans i would most certainly take paul as a candidate though he would still be behind kucinich, obama and not voting at all due to total frustration.

Not voting at all ftw.

[lord_casek]

the truth-o-meter
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/

[yumone]

10 percent is a really good result there has been no news of Ron Paul whatsoever in the Australian media, while there have been articles about democrats that didn;t even register a single percent in the Iowa caucases. Good to see he owned the dude who has been getting the most media coverage and is on the heels of Mcain.

PS what does everyone think of MCain? I don;t know much about his policies but he seems alright to me, way better than other republicans apart from RP

[the.crooked]

mccain is straight crazy.


like old and senile crazy.

[El Mamerro]

Not as old as Ron Paul.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOH.

[russell jones]

BAH!


Just learn how to speak fully in barely meaningful buzzwords. Here's an example.

"Tonight, we gather to affirm the greatness of our Nation — not because of the height of our skyscrapers, or the power of our military, or the size of our economy. Our pride is based on a very simple premise, summed up in a declaration made over two hundred years ago:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That is the true genius of America, a faith -- a faith in simple dreams, an insistence on small miracles; that we can tuck in our children at night and know that they are fed and clothed and safe from harm; that we can say what we think, write what we think, without hearing a sudden knock on the door; that we can have an idea and start our own business without paying a bribe; that we can participate in the political process without fear of retribution, and that our votes will be counted -- at least most of the time.

This year, in this election we are called to reaffirm our values and our commitments, to hold them against a hard reality and see how we're measuring up to the legacy of our forbearers and the promise of future generations."

Congrats, you have said and done nothing with this statement. But it sure sounds good...

[the.crooked]

who said that russel?

[lord_casek]

Barack Obama

[thecoldmidwest]

Our two party system is a snake with two heads that leads the people of our nation to belive that they have a choice.

[MY ROTTING LIVER]

I don't doubt Paul's ability or intelligence, but I don't think your doubts about Obama are well founded either. What I think is funny is that so many of you think a surgeon would be more apt at protecting the constitution than Obama, who is a constitutional lawyer. From his bio:
"Obama graduated from Columbia University in 1983. In 1991, Obama graduated from Harvard Law School where he was the first African American president of the Harvard Law Review."


And as far as his stances, it isn't hard to find what they are in both his speeches and through the WWW and media. Here's a few examples:

"I opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996. It should be repealed and I will vote for its repeal on the Senate floor. I will also oppose any proposal to amend the U.S. Constitution to ban gays and lesbians from marrying."


"In an interconnected world, the defeat of international terrorism – and most importantly, the prevention of these terrorist organizations from obtaining weapons of mass destruction -- will require the cooperation of many nations. We must always reserve the right to strike unilaterally at terrorists wherever they may exist. But we should know that our success in doing so is enhanced by engaging our allies so that we receive the crucial diplomatic, military, intelligence, and financial support that can lighten our load and add legitimacy to our actions. This means talking to our friends and, at times, even our enemies."


"All across the world, in every kind of environment and region known to man, increasingly dangerous weather patterns and devastating storms are abruptly putting an end to the long-running debate over whether or not climate change is real. Not only is it real, it's here, and its effects are giving rise to a frighteningly new global phenomenon: the man-made natural disaster."


"I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer's lobby. But I also believe that when a gangbanger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels someone disrespected him, we have a problem of morality. Not only do we need to punish that man for his crime, but we need to acknowledge that there's a hole in his heart, one that government programs alone may not be able to repair."

[lord_casek]

how about as ten term congressman, a flight surgeon for the airforce,s omeone who served in vietnam?

sounds good to me.

[MY ROTTING LIVER]

If serving in congress or the military makes you a constitutional expert, than working at library makes you an author - proximity is not coorelation. However, my point was not about Paul but it was in defense of Obama as a candidate with an understanding of our system and solid ideas and opinions. I used his constitutional background because I know that is especially important here.

[yumone]

casek why in the fuck is it a positive thing that should be regarded in a presidential run whether you served in an unjust war or not?

[dailycrunch]

"I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer's lobby. But I also believe that when a gangbanger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels someone disrespected him, we have a problem of morality. Not only do we need to punish that man for his crime, but we need to acknowledge that there's a hole in his heart, one that government programs alone may not be able to repair."


dude sounds like a dick, "hole in his heart"? - prevention not cure

[MY ROTTING LIVER]

I'm not sure even what you mean.

[lord_casek]

casek why in the fuck is it a positive thing that should be regarded in a presidential run whether you served in an unjust war or not?



because, as a flight surgeon he SAVED YOUNG AMERICANS LIVES. as a doctor of obstetrics in later years, he helps BRING NEW LIFE INTO THE WORLD.

get it?



that was rather snide of you to say that vietnam was an unjust war. we all know that, but you don't have to spit on the men and women who served. they didn't have any choice.

[lord_casek]

on ABC debate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHs6uY85xuw

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

http://www.mixtapetorrent.com/system/files/sega.jpg

[vanfullofretards]

Awesome debate, but what is that^^^

[angelofdeath]

sorry liver, but dont you think it is funny that you are touting obama hussein as a 'constitutional' lawyer when he wants to abolish the second amendment? seems sort of odd... maybe its just me. or that he wants to create the ultimate nanny state or that he wants to use the central government to eliminate 'thought' crimes like racism...

[yumone]

because, as a flight surgeon he SAVED YOUNG AMERICANS LIVES. as a doctor of obstetrics in later years, he helps BRING NEW LIFE INTO THE WORLD.

get it?



that was rather snide of you to say that vietnam was an unjust war. we all know that, but you don't have to spit on the men and women who served. they didn't have any choice.

It is fantastic that he was a flight surgeon and a doctor, with the position of the coma in your sentence i thought you meant he served in a combat role in Vietnam, something of absolutely no positive moral value.

Saying Vietnam was an unjust war isn't spitting in the face of anyone who was conscripted to fight there, I can;t imagine how terrible it would be to be conscripted by a government to fight in a war you think is unjust. However fighting in the war is obviously not something to be proud of either, nor something which puts you above anybody in a political race, something which YOU need to understand...

beign such a strong libertarian as you are i presume you arte dead against conscription?

[lord_casek]

It is fantastic that he was a flight surgeon and a doctor, with the position of the coma in your sentence i thought you meant he served in a combat role in Vietnam, something of absolutely no positive moral value.

Saying Vietnam was an unjust war isn't spitting in the face of anyone who was conscripted to fight there, I can;t imagine how terrible it would be to be conscripted by a government to fight in a war you think is unjust. However fighting in the war is obviously not something to be proud of either, nor something which puts you above anybody in a political race, something which YOU need to understand...

beign such a strong libertarian as you are i presume you arte dead against conscription?


well, i wouldn't call myself a strong anything, but i do like to try and adhere to the
ideas the founding fathers had. i would also like my country to do the same, not always the case...

the vietnam war, no matter how i feel about it being right or wrong, doesn't change my views on the troops who fought it or gave their lives. i'll always honor them and respect those who passed away as a result of it.

and yes, i'm against the draft.