New York v. San Fran

[Get Stoopid!]

well well well after living here in ny for a bit I'm throughly not hyped about the graff, the style, the scene, etc. . . and don't think I haven't been going out of my way to see shit, cos I have.
San Francisco's so yummy and delicious and filled with good writers, I feel like it's neck and neck w/ New York for graf noteriety, even if there isn't as much graffiti there. (I'm assuming all this cos I never gotten to go out west, but you hear about the san francisco scene constantly and flicks are flowing and abundant.)
When I was younger, I was all "I'm going to New York to see the graffiti," and now I wanna go to cali and seeie theie graffitieie. . .
So who's seen it all? Who prefers what?

[hbg]

i definitely think that nyc is better i ve been there many times and have seen alot. . the bombing scene is definitely better than anywhere else.
all the greats are from new york. dondi, iz the wiz, seen, pjay, cope 2, korn, cost, espo, revs, skeme just to name a few
gotta repect all the old school , espicially because this is where trains all started. i dont think the graff scene in sf is nearly as good as new york. not saying the graff scene isnt good in sf but i just think new york is legendary .
thats my opinion though

[ctrl+alt+del]

yeah its nice and all that new york is "legendary" and all and i know we all gotta give "props" or "daps" or respect or whatever you want to call it to the old school, but the fact is, the shit coming out of cali is truely innovative. the style is mind boggling. and the ability to do that while dangling from a bridge over traffic or on a highway sign covered in barbed wire, man, you cant compete with that. thats one thing i really like about cali shit, their choice of location. i see an ayer (RIP) piece in an insane spot and i ponder for hours, just how the fuck can a human do that? http://www.bastardartist.com i think ny has perfected old school, but la created new school.

[imported_garcia_vega]

been around both--i say new york is still number one. san fran is cool, but really the birthplace of most of the shit goin on out there is back east. i think la has more of an original scene.

[hbg]

everywhere something new is inovating . and i know that la has alot inovations than most places. and damn i give mad props to that guy ayer . how did he die any way. but if you go to any city you will see shit where people were hanging off bridges . but its not like im not giving cali respect cuz iam , thats just my opinion that new york is better. that ayer shit is mad crazy though . i only seen some of his stuff but all that i seen is awsome.

[hbg]

you cant forget philly either thats the birth place off graff

[*SIZEROKS*]

I LOVE BOTH CITYS........

[.,.,.,]

Hmmm.. Having walked the streets of both quite a bit, I'll go with NY. New York City is a graffiti kingdom. The streets are flooded with so much graf -- good and bad -- that it's inescapable. Dope fills, smooth pieces, beautifully drippy and clusterfucked tags all greet you practically everywhere in NYC. The scene never slows down either, writers are constantly emerging and the classic guys continue to rock. Granted, the mentality seen by LA writers is nuts, but heads like sane and ja were doing the "crazy thing" loooong ago. NY is just different. It's more about the amount of ups than it is the sickness of individual spots. That's just the scene's design.


SF on the other hand is pretty dope. If anything, it's the closest mirror of NY you'll find in the U.S.. A lot of writers even mingle between both cities (twist, amaze, setup, mq, etc..). It feels a little more like a melting pot of U.S. style than NY does. LA/Atlanta styles might be found in SF right next to a midwest-looking piece, around the corner from an NYC style fill-in. Not many other places can claim that type of diversity in such a small area. Plus there's a more profound sense of creativity in SF. Some of the writers take more time to bring art and originality into their style, which is cool shit too see.

I can't dis SF -- it's so lovely -- but nonetheless, I think the scene there can get slow at times & feel fairly small. Plus the Proposition 21 laws work really hard against big writers. In the end, I just think NY is doper.

[tue skinny]

ny you dumbers. RHODE ISLAND

[Gnes 37]

its all about AZ new terrain very small history and a lot to accomplish compared to alot of cities

[eliteLEIT]

R i fo sho

[I Luv Roo]

I live in the Bay Area, and I look at NY like this unnattainable goal - last time I was there, I was too dumbfounded to even do anything. SF goes through phases too, while, it seems NY is consistent - but what do you think? Maybe it's the whole 'grass is greener' theory...

[shameless self promotion]

ny

[imported_soopafeen]

people are always going to ny to bomb, but no one ever goes to LA to bomb, just because its too hard. Nobody can come close to the level of LA's bombers.

[Remy Martin]

I would go with the theory that the west coast city on the level with NYC has to be LA, SF is a city very similar in design to NYC and out right tiny. LA however is a HUGE metro area, far bigger than the NYC metro area and has a graffiti culture going back to the fortys, not to mention its incredibally challenging place to write. In NYC I get the impression that street level fillins are the usual, while in LA you got full peices on heavens, bridges, billboards, and rooftops. Not to say that this doesnt happen in NYC, but in LA it seems to be the focus of the scene.
However, it seems stupid to chose one over the other as a preference. When you can probably learn immesnsely from both.

[6000]

i prefer my graf grimey and gritty like new york fuckin city.

[chester copperpot]

the bulk of sf graffiti has not been the work of sf natives in a long time, an out of towner can take over sf in a few months <few??> .

new york is way doper.

[kasmoney]

PHILLY
PHILLY
PHILLY
PHILLY
PHILADELPHIA WHERE CRAFT IS STILL KING!:king:

[imported_tEkRoCkS]

ESPO IS NOT FROM NY!!!!!!!AND YES NY IS MY PIK!

[tue skinny]

im gona go with ny

[I Luv Roo]

Originally posted by chester copperpot
the bulk of sf graffiti has not been the work of sf natives in a long time, an out of towner can take over sf in a few months <few??> .

new york is way doper.

GOOD point.

[12345]

First of all i cant believe that you are comparing two cities and you havent even fucking been to one of them!

[17reasonswhy]

Originally posted by I Luv Roo

the bulk of sf graffiti has not been the work of sf natives in a long time, an out of towner can
take over sf in a few months <few??> .

new york is way doper.

people are always going to ny to bomb, but no one ever goes to LA to bomb, just because its too
hard. Nobody can come close to the level of LA's bombers.
GOOD point.


THAT REALLY IS A GOOD FUKN POINT........I AM ALL ABOUT PUSHING THE SF SCENE, BUT TRUTH BE TOLD......THATS A GOOD FUKN POINT

[imported_konek graf queen]

cali writers try too hard!!!
- anonymous

[donniefrisco]

Originally posted by konek graf queen
cali writers try too hard!!!
- anonymous

Sorry, but that doesnt make sense...

[AbortionRingtoss]

New York is alright. I can watch the Cope2 video or whatever and get pumped to bomb, but I don't really care for the style. All of the pieces in NY are legal, and the bombing and whatnot I have already seen in Subway and Spraycan Art. There are still cats in the West Coast that bomb w/ an NY style and mentality, but all in all, West Coast wins because on the West Coast, you see a lot of progression, and it doesn't stop. West Coast is the best coast.

[.,.,.,]

Originally posted by AbortionRingtoss
All of the pieces in NY are legal, and the bombing and whatnot I have already seen in Subway and Spraycan Art, [...] West Coast wins because on the West Coast, you see a lot of progression, and it doesn't stop. West Coast is the best coast.

Nope, this is just wrong.

In NY there ARE a shitload of illegal pieces and you have not seen current bombing because you have seen an almost 20 year old magazine. Progression also runs rampant in New York -- just look at Revs, one of the most innovative writers in history, and everything he's created. No disrespect to you or the West Coast, but these are facts.

Either way, it's just unfair to compare one city to an entire coast. But then again maybe not, since New York is such an all-encompassing city, which others aren't.

[Remy Martin]

SF gets props for being the most liberal city in the world pretty much.
Its a beautifull place and also a very nice place to paint old buildings and stuff..the core population is under 900,000.
however you have heads from all over which makes it nice you know..especially after paying attention and what not for year after year..cause you see all kinds of styles come through and its a nice chill scene to paint. Its San Francisco, for its size the, rents it commands are maybe even higher than New York. New York is a incredible place as well. I think the thing that puts a city on par with New York is the heads in Los Angeles doing full end to end bridge panels. at 6-8 feet tall and around fifty long its comparable to a subway car, same goes for heavens alltough a bit smaller. Its a key part of the transportation scene out here, plus a lot are done without ropes and if you fall theres a good chance you will die....subway systems here are a joke pretty much and thousands upon thousands of people see bridges and stuff when it gets hit. much like the subway t to b's that ran throught the 80s.
I would love to see a NYC bomber come through and crush LA.
I got money on LA writers being able to crush NYC.
but its all good.

[imported_Raels]

To me, a writer is a writer anywhere you go. Mentalities just evolve as a result of their surroundings. If somebody like Deck(NYC) had come up in LA and still gotten into graf, he'd probably be knocking out tons of overpasses and billboards instead of grates and corners. I think the same would be true if a head like GKAE had been from New York -- he'd be runnin' subway tunnels and catching fill-ins in every burrough.

[ittheclown]

true very true we are mearly products of our surroundings..

[Hated Pigeon]

Having spent time in both cities I would say that NY gets my vote, dont get me wrong SF is dope, but it doesnt have the same sort of history or vibe as the big apple.
Going to NY was like a pilgrimage, whereas SF was just a nice vacation.....

[AbortionRingtoss]

What I've seen of NY is that people do get up like mad, but that is the focus. Personally I like to see shots. A ton of throwups seems somewhat monotonous. I'd be more inclined to be stoked on a shot than 20 30 second fillins. Just me.

[imported_niseNSF]

Originally posted by Raels
To me, a writer is a writer anywhere you go. Mentalities just evolve as a result of their surroundings. If somebody like Deck(NYC) had come up in LA and still gotten into graf, he'd probably be knocking out tons of overpasses and billboards instead of grates and corners. I think the same would be true if a head like GKAE had been from New York -- he'd be runnin' subway tunnels and catching fill-ins in every burrough.

this prolly sums up the "differences" best....cities like philly and newyork dont HAVE 20 freeways...in fact philly has only 2: 76 and 95, and so there is hardly any "I" beams or ill LA-type spots to do. especially since there arent hardly any overlapping highways really with overpasses and shit...and nyc is the same, so its more street, more rooftop, more neighborhood rep. i think LA and NYC are a better "matchup" anyway though, because LA is actually hard to write in, like NY or philly or DC or whatever. SF, im sorry to say, is easy to write on. its an art-friendly city and bobming is cake out there. i cant front on all the kids like AMAZE and TIE and GREY and TWIST that have come and killed nyc.....but its really no comparison if you ask me. style-wise is a whole other story...style is gonna depend on your personal taste....but what isnt subjective is the fact that SF is way easier to rep hard than to rep 4 boroughs in NYC. thats a fact. LA, on the other hand, is comparably hard i think.


my 2cents

[*ZEMONEDOE$]

who's been seeing new irak shit out in frisco?
is the whole crew out der or what

[Average White Railfan]

i didnt even read the responses, and im not a fan of ny..but fools like sent, smith sien5 ghost and a couple others keep nyc the mecca of style.
frisco aint got shit on ny...like a famous ny writer once said in his piece.."no comp"

[17reasonswhy]

Originally posted by *ZEMONEDOE$
who's been seeing new irak shit out in frisco?
is the whole crew out der or what


earsnot, sace and fanta were out here for halloween..........

[willy.wonka]

NY.SF.NY.SF.EN WHY.ES EFF.NY.SF.
i just think there is a time when the "soul" of grafitti moves from place to place...like Pete's Dragon.
i like sf....although i have seen the ultimate productions from ny."graffoply"three horse men"all of subs work is sick....a lot of people that have been around for a long time...
i dont know guys....
i have seen a lot of work come out of ny...just not too sure who's native.
ima have to go with Salt Lake City.Utah

[Misled Youth]

Yeah, west coast has alot better styles.SF is so dope, theres hidden shit all over the place.Well, i guess i like SF more cause im there all the time and im not to into the bombing scene.

[imported_crso]

san fran!

[DankLordz]

NYC.


Ive been to both cities and many inbetween.. New York has an aura to it.. As soon as I got into manhattan I just sort of felt in awe of everything.. surreal almost... i can't say that i felt that in SF. granted, there were spots in LA and SF that made me shit my pants, but the cities just dont hold what NY does.. am i a dork? perhaps..

my 2 cents.

[ardenchapman]

yo, i live in sf.

ny is the spot, sf is full of shit. ny has been, and still is killed... for 30 years. sf writer's don't have the heart. there is no comparison.

but, i will say, LA is on the come up. but NY is king.

[emit_df]

Well.. In NY If you got dissed there was usually a name over your piece. When I painted in SF my shit got dissed by spaltter or scribble.....which is BS. If your gonna diss someone..have the balls to write your name or leave it alone.

[Sonik3000]

I remember being somewhat underwhelmed with the graff in SF. It felt like I was walking through a magazine. I mean everything was decent and flickable, which is totally not what graff is to me. What makes graff an experience as a whole is the forty thousand tags in various stages of disrepair on the doorway or wall, not the one or two perfect ones.... well, to me at least. While it was certainly cool to come across a clean SF door with Amaze Grey Tie Twist and KR tags on it, aesthetically I prefer NYC, where graff has acheived a kind of organic sense of belonging, like moss for city walls.

It's not any commentary on the great writers of either city. They're great. It's more that it's the sheer volume of toys that make the biggest impression on me...

Shit, Sao Paulo was like that. Twenty times more killed than NYC ever was, and 99% of the stuff plain sucked. And that made for the best visual effect ever.

[Huh What !?]

NEW YORK no comp! the bronx alone has more peices an bombing then san fran.

[imported_sixteenvandals]

Originally posted by Remy Martin
SF gets props for being the most liberal city in the world pretty much.
Its a beautifull place and also a very nice place to paint old buildings and stuff..the core population is under 900,000.
however you have heads from all over which makes it nice you know..especially after paying attention and what not for year after year..cause you see all kinds of styles come through and its a nice chill scene to paint. Its San Francisco, for its size the, rents it commands are maybe even higher than New York. New York is a incredible place as well. I think the thing that puts a city on par with New York is the heads in Los Angeles doing full end to end bridge panels. at 6-8 feet tall and around fifty long its comparable to a subway car, same goes for heavens alltough a bit smaller. Its a key part of the transportation scene out here, plus a lot are done without ropes and if you fall theres a good chance you will die....subway systems here are a joke pretty much and thousands upon thousands of people see bridges and stuff when it gets hit. much like the subway t to b's that ran throught the 80s.
I would love to see a NYC bomber come through and crush LA.
I got money on LA writers being able to crush NYC.
but its all good.

sf is not by any means the most liberal city in the world. as of 3 years ago it would possibly be the most liberal in america...but the world- hell no.

[imported_sixteenvandals]

Originally posted by sixteenvandals


sf is not by any means the most liberal city in the world. up until 3 years ago it would possibly be the most liberal in america...but the world- hell no.

[imported_sixteenvandals]

san francisco was beating NYC for a few years. it was when nyc was in a slump and SF was in a prime.

SF is a small city and should be compared to a specific borough or NYC, rather than "NYC".

i have to say that NYC is bar far the best graff city in america, but SF was at one point rocking better and more than NYC.


SF went downhill after 1998/99

and it hasnt come back up.

except for kers thats one phenomenon.

[trickone]

new york most definatly

[Remi Martin]

your right sixteenvandals...
there are far far far more liberal citys than sf....somehow it seems i was thinking of cali as the world when i wrote that.
im relived that was all you found to be faulty in my statement.

[REGULATOR]

SF, LA, chicago, philly and NY all got thier own things going...but NY is and will always be the unchallenged kingdom of graffiti. its where the shit blew up.

[hbg]

New York has an aura to it.. As soon as I got into manhattan I just sort of felt in awe of everything.. surreal almost

exactly . nicely put
when you go to nyc you are overcome with graff.

[elquilser]

i think you are all wrong the best place is utah

[RIME.KCW.BBT]

New York hands down has to win out over SanFran. Don't get me wrong Cali is great, but NY is the "home" of graff. Don't fight with me about Philly either. I know.

[conspieracy]

for going on style ediquitte alone ,and letter style cali takes it .and charechter wise west coast has the inovative straight out of the mind where new york take there charecters from books and for a place that started graff there isnt very much inovation from the top celebrity writers they are still painting the same shit over and over exccept for a select few . dont get me wrong i love new york because of nestalgia and the mecca of writers but i would have to say cali . is taken it to another level . we have inovated toss ups to full coler pieces on the freeeway and or bridges a simple tosse will not be respected you have to go all out ...... ciao steven , konker conspieracy theory bashers:king:

[THE LAW]

Originally posted by conspieracy
for going on style ediquitte alone ,and letter style cali takes it .and charechter wise west coast has the inovative straight out of the mind where new york take there charecters from books and for a place that started graff there isnt very much inovation from the top celebrity writers they are still painting the same shit over and over exccept for a select few . dont get me wrong i love new york because of nestalgia and the mecca of writers but i would have to say cali . is taken it to another level . we have inovated toss ups to full coler pieces on the freeeway and or bridges a simple tosse will not be respected you have to go all out ...... ciao steven , konker conspieracy theory bashers:king:

have you BEEN to new york?

celebrity writers, bode characters? dude, you're seriously missing the point if you have. quantity, quantity quantity, competition, competition, competition. that's what's up with NY and what makes it so fresh. sounds like your living in a magazine world or something.

[REGULATOR]

Originally posted by Huh What !?
NEW YORK no comp! the bronx alone has more peices an bombing then san fran.

have u ever been into the metro tunnels?? theres got to be layers upon layers of full detailed peices in the N tunnel.

its true about the dissing part. Ive seen my own shots get lined and no name. just a line through my shit

[conspieracy]

Originally posted by THE LAW


have you BEEN to new york?

celebrity writers, bode characters? dude, you're seriously missing the point if you have. quantity, quantity quantity, competition, competition, competition. that's what's up with NY and what makes it so fresh. s
ounds like your living in a magazine world or something.



all im saying you havent been out here eitheir . so we both only get to see whats on the net , or in a 12 oz and other top mags ,or sites . .sever and revok have moved east ,but all i have seen from ney york is old styles ,fx or tats. bites . if there is inovation send me some examples
([email protected]) same letter styles over and over . your own self proclaimed graff gods who i have alot of respect for starting this shit . but they still paint like there froom the seventys san fran graf f hesads who are in maqgs such as saber revok and gkae sever hence are not from san fran .if you thinmk east coast is better then how are my boys lookin from la revok and saber i herd they smashed your town like a terrorist . and alot of us have been out there i have , and so has my friends i have a couple of freinds who live in ny ...

[Handjob]

Three words:

MEDICINE HAT, ALBERTA.

You ain't seen nothin yet...

[THE LAW]

Originally posted by conspieracy




all im saying you havent been out here eitheir . so we both only get to see whats on the net , or in a 12 oz and other top mags ,or sites . .sever and revok have moved east ,but all i have seen from ney york is old styles ,fx or tats. bites . if there is inovation send me some examples
([email protected]) same letter styles over and over . your own self proclaimed graff gods who i have alot of respect for starting this shit . but they still paint like there froom the seventys san fran graf f hesads who are in maqgs such as saber revok and gkae sever hence are not from san fran .if you thinmk east coast is better then how are my boys lookin from la revok and saber i herd they smashed your town like a terrorist . and alot of us have been out there i have , and so has my friends i have a couple of freinds who live in ny ...


uhhh...you're missing THE LAW's point entirely.

He will summarize for you:
1. You live in a magazine world.
2. You can't judge a city till you've been there.
3. Your examples are shit.
4. ehhh....this isn't worth THE LAW's time.

by the way, THE LAW is not from New York. Or SF. but he's lived in both places. His viewpoint is far less biased than yours.

[REGULATOR]

THE LAW...u should change ur name to THE ROCK

[cAzer]

i definately give west coast daps, but if your smart the east coast is where its at...:D

[conspieracy]

Originally posted by THE LAW



uhhh...you're missing THE LAW's point entirely.

He will summarize for you:
1. You live in a magazine world.
2. You can't judge a city till you've been there.
3. Your examples are shit.
4. ehhh....this isn't worth THE LAW's time.

by the way, THE LAW is not from New York. Or SF. but he's lived in both places. His viewpoint is far less biased than yours.



once again my find fetherd friend , i have been to new york but i didnt get to paint .
i was there working on some buisness .
one of my realy good friends lives in qweens ,
of course i only see what gets on generic sites . or magazines .
because i am not omniputant -(to be able to be in more than one place at a time .
and as far as the under ground tunnels , only some one from new york would know or know where to see
and dont refer to your self in third person you sound like a silly politician .
and if you want to sway my opinion send fliks via email [email protected]
and as far as living in a magazine world , i dont give a fuck what s in a magazine world .
i am talking from site what i saw and what my friend sees every day
10,0000 two color toss ups ar not impressing
that is considerd toy out haere unless your old school i did not see full color pieces on sides of bridges , or even full color wild styles wit h drop shadows on ledges , roofs freeways , bill boards , streets.
the truth of the matter is west coast has past up the power of we painted subways by some forty old so called fine artist .
dont get me wrong i still have mad respect for the old line kings they started this shit but we are in the day of the new and inovative art because graffiti was made by elected officials to to label are art....we are the writers of the next .. 12years and runnin fool .

[hulk hogan]

nyc. becuase i am biased. i live there. and i dont ever plan on going to san fran either.

[trucksoe]

really i just wanted to post to make sure my signature came out right. but i would have to say that while the west coast definitley is always innovative. there are tons of non old school innovators on the east look at guys like rime, or newa, or nace. it's just that in new york it's more about quantity so you just don't see that many full color pieces. also a lot of the mid nineties sf writers were from the east coast originally....so yeah i don't know

[IDOL HANDS]

never really been to sf but nyc is real hard to beat.all boston - philly is laced with sick writers
but nyc runs everything because it never sleeps

[23578]

yeah i agree, the graf in sf has gone downhill ever since the may? 2000 eradication. it seemed to hurt alot of the writers getting over at that time. too bad.

if there is a city out here that's comprable to frisco i think it's montreal, or to. i don't know their respecitve histories or anything, i'm just saying they are both truly unique places, of the same size, and there are about the same amount of hot writers in both, all three? to, i don't know, i've been there least, so if i'm wrong here it would be great if someone would point it out. montreal has more bombers it seems, i guess that's what makes me think of it as frisco's peer. they (bombers) are similar in there execution, large and clean, and it's also six or seven hours north from the east coast mecca, nyc, same as frisco from west coast mecca, LA. actually i'm way frisco biased as far as piecing. for me it's a city that has a mad raw, new feeling, looking at some of the pieces, the personalities are so diverse and they speak to me from the walls on some level. but then again my exposure level is key here, and i'm sure that lots of places have that feeling for people who have gone and discovered some shit for themselves. i can't say that about any other city, because i just haven't looked hard enough? my advice: get out there and look around, this art is fleeting.

[IDOL HANDS]

i dont know. i been to montreal + met kids from frisco. personal experience montreal kids are way the fuck cooler but i dont think they could hang with frisco bombers.

[23578]

yeh, i guess, i'm not that familiar with histories and what not, montreal is cool, but it seems like i could name all the writers there, in frisco it seems shit goes back way further. i guess it was easy or whatever before like 95 and kids are mad good. plus they got the dope tourist connection, unlike montreal, i think the tourists are intimidated or something, or something else. plus canucks are way into freights especially montreal, eh? i guess i was commenting on how bombed it looks to a passer by, not underground. i've seen way more shit in frisco, but i've been there more too. definately shouldn't be compared to new york where shit has been blown up longer, with way more writers and beef and whatnot.

[IDOL HANDS]

ny is just a mean ass city. even when its sweet its trying to get over on you. la is definately a tighter battle between coasts. ny vs la. friscos dope but its a little candyland next to these two

[ralphy.sj]

nyc is like 5 times bigger than sf.obviously that is a plus more terrain..what i like about sf is the whole scene is easy to keep up on..but in reality they have so much to offer 2each his own

[orangedots]

NY always...but give mad props to SAN FRAN for all the bombing

[CrazyLazy]

Originally posted by sixteenvandals
SF went downhill after 1998/99


None truer words ever typed. but it's really hard to compare the two cities. different styles and different feelings/scenes. I've only been to NY a couple of times, but I know in SF recently, it seems like there is one person bombing really hard for a couple of months then they just fall off, and someone else bombs really hard, then falls off, and around and around. But SF was bangin' in the 90's definitley. Always got love for NY though, it's where it all began.

[c. clarence]

i would have to argue frisco only cause i rep the set, but one thing that ive noticed is that hella writers from the east coast werent really well known (or that good) untill after they came to bomb SF. that frisco flavor just brings out the best in you, haha. i give NY props for the old school shit, but has just evolved into a shitfest of generic throwies and tags. the SF scene is pretty weak right now, but as ive noticed, the SF scene tends to have a pattern of a couple good years, then a couple bad years... and the cycle continues. theres definetly a lot more style coming from the sucka free.

[THE CORONER]

yeah NYC for sure but san fran has some hot shit, like mentioned above
but wouldnt a better comparison be NYC and LA?