Reparations from slavery? [Archive] - THE WRITERS FORUM

mental invalid

03-26-2002, 03:32 PM

i was watching the oreily factor, in between chris mathews' hardball...im much more aligned with mathews then with oreily...normally i cant stand the bastard...but he had some interesting comments on slave reparations....some that i actually agreed with, i tried to wash off the conservative right from body immediately after the program, but was left with the thoughts this morning...

so, i thought id bring it to the boards in a hope of stimulation....

the questions i aske myself are:

is this a pandoras box, with no end to the road...if reparations are paid, who will pay? the government? big business? the south? most likely the consumer and taxpayer, whom a significant majority of are black...so then is it a symbolic gesture? what about the fact that alot of slaves were actually captured by other african tribes?...do we then need to address other groups, although not nearly as heinous as slavery, but discrimnated against, such as the irish/japanese/italians, etc...

should we pay because what has happened has caused african american peope in this country hardship in the major areas of economics, politics and social injustices...do we owe a piece of american economic growth to african americans?....is this what a majority of african americans want?

some thoughts....lets see where this goes.....

beardo

03-26-2002, 03:45 PM

you really know how to drop a bombshell topic at 9:30am. i may or may not be back later

imported_crso

03-26-2002, 03:48 PM

i say we should just get over it . because if we gave reparation to every minority group that has experience hardships. we would be paying for years.

Poop Man Bob

03-26-2002, 03:52 PM

I believe a reaction should depend on what the African American community wants, although that is bound to change with time, so the answer will overwhelmingly depend on when you ask. I feel as though the government paying the reparations would be inappropriate because, like you said, much of the money would originally come from African Americans anyway. But such is the joy of any tax-based political system .... the radical redistribution of previously stolen goods - my favorite definition of 'politics.'

I too would like to read what other people have to say.

mental invalid

03-26-2002, 03:52 PM

haha...seriously beardo, i havent even had my second cup of coffee bean elixer...i thought the same thing, dropping AM bombs...hopefully we will talk to you later....

beardo

03-26-2002, 03:59 PM

just happened on this link.. what a coinkidink..

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48781,00.html

CSX also issued a statement late Monday.

"The claimants named CSX because slave labor was used to construct portions of some U.S. rail lines under the political and legal system in place more than a century before CSX was formed in 1980. The lawsuit to be filed in federal court in New York City against CSX and other corporations demanding financial reparations is wholly without merit and should be dismissed," it said.

mental invalid

03-26-2002, 04:15 PM

...interesting.....that is probably why oreily brought up the subject last night....

looks like this could get sticky.....

can companies that were operating as completely different entities over 150 years ago within federal law at the time be held accountable? how the hell do you even figure out restituion....

beardo

03-26-2002, 04:19 PM

not a snowballs chance in hell theyd win that lawsuit. BUT you can bet that all those companies will make heafty donations in the near future.. somethin's shakin on shakedown street..

Mr. Mang

03-26-2002, 04:22 PM

how about we can all sign the congressional "get over it" bill

mental invalid

03-26-2002, 04:34 PM

it used to be the heart of town....

and i quote:

"Among the three already named, Hartford-based Aetna, at the prompting of Farmer-Paellmann, has admitted that it insured slaves for slave owners.

Two years ago, the company, which has given over $36 million to the black community and hosts an annual symposium on race at its corporate offices, apologized."

mental invalid

03-26-2002, 04:35 PM

...and might i say its real easy to say get over it when your not the afflicted party....i dunno know how id feel if i was black...shit im white and im not sure how i feel...

A Fire Inside

03-26-2002, 04:37 PM

Call me dumb, closed-minded, racist, whatever, but I honestly don't see how paying to repair what happened will solve anything. It happened, and it didn't happen to anyone currently alive, so they shouldn't see any of it. (Does that make sense?)
I'm just trying to say that the people who will recieve the reparation were not living back then to suffer through it, and although they may have had to suffer do to their color in their life, it is not because they were slaves...

I've come to the conclusion it is still too early to think and put words together properly, so hopefully they came off the way I wanted it too...

A Fire Inside

03-26-2002, 04:40 PM

aaaaaand just because a company or whoever it may be is paying money to the "black community" does not mean that all the members of said community have ancestors directly related to them who were slaves.:confused:

Dusty Lipschitz

03-26-2002, 04:46 PM

ever stand outside a bar or club at like 230am, you and a few friends, one car, and everyone is trying to decide what to do, where to go...
another bar, that new club that just opened, swing by that girls dorm, go get some food, go get some drugs, go home and crash, go paint, go play some GTA3...

the problem with slave reparations is that there is never going to be a consensus, never going to be some group that isnt pissed the fuck off and feels cheated or betrayed. people are going to look for the answer that makes everyone happy, and that answer never exists. everyone has their own idea about whats fair and right.

and second, once that decision is made, implementing (aka: funding) that is a whole 'nother ball game.

im glad that it got brought up, mr. roe, that although the white man is traditionally demonized, the reality is quite different. not to let whitey off the hook, but read the chapter in howard zinn's book, and then we can talk.

ok, so me personally? toughie. i think the floodgates/pandoras box gets opened when you start making reperations. you better have one of those red-round-deli counter-take a number and wait for it to flash on the digital sign thingies in place. where does it start? where does it end? the easy example is the WTC victims. why them? what about WTC '93? or what about the US embassy bombing in africa? anyways... what would my answer be? ill have to get back after my second cup of the coffee bean elixer...

BROWNer

03-26-2002, 04:47 PM

....yikes.
roe droppin' daisycutters>

a guess: reparations won't do much.
minorities such as the black community and aboriginal
community are still gonna be anchored in the bullshit
of the past. the only way to get past anything would
be to completely erase that past.
i don't know.
johnny albino.

Dusty Lipschitz

03-26-2002, 04:48 PM

teister

03-26-2002, 05:01 PM

First of all, the Japanese who were interned during WWII are or have been paid for all that. I know because my grandparents were there and they are or were paid. The first Bush did that. Not that that money in any way makes up for losing homes, lives, friends, families and all dignity in the world, but it was a move in the right direction. Second, I read a whole bunch of stuff about these slave reparations in USA Today, and whats happening is a group of lawyers is preparing to sue the major corporations involved in slavery, many of which still exist. Some of these companies were absorbed or taked over by newer names or have since changed their name, but people have been digging and they're doing their homework. USA Today listed a whole bunch of companies that were involved in all that and that was just the tip of the iceberg. I don't think the government or taxpayer will be affected by any of it. I guess the biggest question is whether or not some of these companies who have since changed their policies or no longer have any connection to what went on are still responsible. In my opinion something needs to be done. I think the idea of setting up funds and other programs is being kicked around, rather than just paying out money which might be a better idea, because there is also the question of who is actually directly affected by slavery being that not all African Americans have slave ancestry, and there are few records being able to tie them to it. And again, these corporations will be responsible financially for setting those things up. Anyways, so thats what I know about the topic. Oh, and just for the record, the team of lawyers is working pro bono, so its not about the money for them necessarily.

mental invalid

03-26-2002, 05:06 PM

youre always witty dusty, even after the fact...

browner brings up a good point, and one i was going to drop just for fun to fuck with people as the thread developed more....but ill drop it now:

if we are entertaining ideas for lawsuits and federal action for the reparations of africans:

what ground does the leave us on when dealing with the native american indian?

like woah.....

boogie hands

03-26-2002, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by mental invalid
...and might i say its real easy to say get over it when your not the afflicted party....i dunno know how id feel if i was black...shit im white and im not sure how i feel...

very true, its really hard to comment when your on this side of the fence. in certain situations i would love to see some reperations be made. for instance, black families who had land taken from them, i believe they are entitled to a certain amount of finacial reperation for that, its stolen and lost income as a direct result of the racial injustice that was going on in the late 1800s-early 1900's. even then though i think it all boils down to practicality and lets face it, its not practical....whos going pay? i would hope not the goverment. trying to hold companies responsible is also, in most cases, out of the question. i would vote for more indirect reperations, possibly redirecting some funding, say to inner city schools, youth programs, low income housing.....i would be happy to have my tax money go towards that, i think its more that well deserved, its well needed. i do however absoluty abhor the idea of my tax money going to someone just because they are black.....its as ridiculous as me having to pay just because im white.....its not that cut and dry and to do something like that would not only be unfair but it would also be a slap in the face to the black community.....just tossing around a couple of dollars, calling it even and brushing them under the carpet.....

mental invalid

03-26-2002, 05:12 PM

"I don't think the government or taxpayer will be affected by any of it."

no but the taxpayer in the form of cosumer will still take it up the ass...if you hit big business they will have tog et the money somwhere...and thus again you have was poop man put so eloquently, "the radical redistribution of previously stolen goods"....african americans will have to pay the increase cost as a comsumer, not as a taxpayer....

as dusty said there is no right answer where everyone is gonna hold hands and prance around happyland....

A Fire Inside

03-26-2002, 05:25 PM

I think my problem with all of this is that the companies around today are nut run by the same people as before... no one is around today who was DIRECTLY involved, therefore all this money or what-have-you is being given and taken and taken and given from people not directly responsible for the actions of those no longer around...

?

Mr. Mang

03-26-2002, 05:28 PM

true. i don't think there are any old slavemasters hanging around anywhere... i say we put our time and effort into something important like taking care of the homeless, not some bullshit nobody can ever change.

Dusty Lipschitz

03-26-2002, 06:02 PM

like mental, brownie and i were sayong... where do you draw the line? when? with who?

i also was thinking along the lines of boogie. put the money back into communities, schools, acholarships, small/minority owned business' in the community. i think that idea is great, but unfortunatley a pipe dream. if we could get them (big business/the government) to do that already, to spend the money wisely and where it is needed and not into their already bulging pockets, things may not be in the situation they already are. i dont think cutting a check and just handing it out to blacks is the answer. i dont think anything positive or lasting would come of it.

mental invalid

03-26-2002, 06:11 PM

ill aske the querry again:

where does this leave our agenda with native american indians...is there even an agenda on the table? have they ever even acquired reparations?

imported_crso

03-26-2002, 06:13 PM

word.:idea:

beardo

03-26-2002, 06:35 PM

native american indians have land, their own government (basically) and casino gaming, i havent heard of them asking for more.

imported_crso

03-26-2002, 07:10 PM

that's right.:rolleyes:

graffsurgeon

03-26-2002, 07:12 PM

if anything, reinstate slavery. not just for blacks but for anyone except for myself. piss me off, throw some chains on them, i got a fucking lemonade. its that easy.

--zeSto--

03-26-2002, 07:17 PM

it's a nice dream...

but it's goes against the "rich get richer, poor get poorer" policy the democratic republic has going for it.

I'd like believe that ever person alive now had ancient ancestors that were slaves for the Atlantians.

uncle-boy

03-26-2002, 07:26 PM

wowzers, this subject is mind boggling. i personally don't think reparations are in order whatsoever. based on the fact that, you can't decide who will pay it, and who will receive it. there are no african americans alive today that were subjected to the terrible life of slavery. they are all passed on., now it is only the descendants and other africans. are we supposed to only pay those people who are descended from actual slaves? and what if they are mixed (black and white) do they receive less reparations? and so on. i think everyone already agrees with that, and i also think that the gov. / tax payers should definitely not be held responsible to pay the benifites. in the case of law suits against specific companies who used slaves back, back in the day; i really doubt any of the people running them TODAY have any thing to do with the slavery of the past. it could be run by board of african trustees. i guess i'm just leaving more open ends then answering questions. slavery was a disgusting thing and it wasn't just one race, or company responsible. everthing has changed so much from then. maybe that is enuff reparations. not to mention affirmitive action.

-sorry it's 8:30 am where i live

Dusty Lipschitz

03-26-2002, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by beardo
native american indians have land, their own government (basically) and casino gaming, i havent heard of them asking for more.

dont look now but your republican roots are showing...

beard

03-26-2002, 07:40 PM

no shame.

you wont catch me typing up a diatribe about my feelings on any political subjects. i can only gather that you think i believe the idians have been reembersed as much as necessary, which would be a far from correct assumption. i simply stated everything i knew on the subject.

--zeSto--

03-26-2002, 07:51 PM

I've got to make one statement about the native issue,

What was taken from the native american (especially south americans),
goes so far beyond land and valuable property. Sure there is a functioning
"reservation" system and a certain degree of self-rule, but that does NOTHING
to ease the pain of the past. Many native americans are prone to
alcohol and substance abuse, which is a form of slavery in itself.
And what about having to convert to Catholocisim or die as a savage?
Do we really think that a few casinos and racetracks will repair that damage?

and just as a side note,
When the spanish arrived in Mexico and South America,
under the blood thirsty rule of Cortez and the Pizarros,
the last remaining ancient civilization was snuffed out.

As much as we may want to, it's impossible to recompensate something so severe.

Pilau Hands

03-26-2002, 07:59 PM

awww look. it's little beard. that's adorable.
that's got a saturday morning cartoon written all over it
the merchandise alone...
i should register "tiny stinky baby hands"
but i digress, yo...

"the problem with slave reparations is that there is never going to be a consensus, never going to be some group that isnt pissed the fuck off and feels cheated or betrayed. people are going to look for the answer that makes everyone happy, and that answer never exists. everyone has their own idea about whats fair and right." - Whitey Lipschitz

See Dusty, the problem is I generally think along the same lines as you do, but I take one more step down the road, to "Meh-ville." (You will miss this reference...having never watched the Simpsons...psh)

Most people think I'm apathetic, and maybe that's true, but I'm only this way after thinking about it for at least two minutes.

In my opinion, there are too many issues to which Dusty's quote applies. This leaves me on the fence most of the time. I see both sides...neither look wholly attractive. Therefore I will bring clarity to the situation and simply say this.

I love quesadillas.

Pilau Hands

03-26-2002, 08:09 PM

...and the show has reached a new low.

beard

03-26-2002, 08:13 PM

hahahass

HESHIANDET

03-26-2002, 08:18 PM

heres a funny little tid bit of info. don't ask me where i got it from, or when i read it, but i know i read this and it was a credible source.

- less than 1% of all blacks in america were/are related to slaves.
- even lesser a percentage of that were white slave owners.

intersting #'s to ponder when considering weather or not to allocate millions or billions of bling bling. its a crock of shit brought up to get people to watch the news and create advertising revenue. just like enron. blah, i hate life.

Are2

03-26-2002, 08:25 PM

i think it is important to try and see all, or at least a few, of the sides to an issue..reparations may be in order, but i don't think monetary awards are the answer...

an acknowledgement of the wrongs perpetrated, and perpetuated by, our government, to many classes and races of citizens may be in order..

japanese-americans were put through hell on the west coast during wwII
native americans, african americans, etcetc..

i read recently that some of malcolm x's plans outlining his next actions (just before his death) have been located...these plans include a condemnation of the u.s.'s involvement in slavery..

at some point, the government should aleast acknowledge the fact that some races have been drug through mud in our countries history..

..and then, fix the history books! , that's reparations..

BROWNer

03-26-2002, 08:47 PM

the idea thats supposed to be at work here
is REPARATIONS...
and you can't make reparations for
whats happened...
does that mean we should do nothing?
?
this whole thing is smelly.
what do i know....

mental invalid

03-26-2002, 09:00 PM

"intersting #'s to ponder when considering weather or not to allocate millions or billions of bling bling. its a crock of shit brought up to get people to watch the news and create advertising revenue. just like enron. blah, i hate life."

dood you need to breathe....didnt you just come back from a glorious sprink break on the slopes? i mean dont get me wrong it always sucked getting back to class, but geesh....go get a guiness.....;)

your numbers, if they are right, are mindblowing...can you source that?

pilau the fence you mention is hurting my ass and one day ill either fall off due to insanity or because i figured out what side to jump on....whichever comes first...the logic of the arguemnt you speak of does come witha ceratin amount of inaction, with the ability to see both views....ugh

i love quesadillas too...

thanks for the clarification beardo....for a sec i thought david duke got a hold of your screen name....playing....

i think so far the best idea has been a full blown apology, with money going to major organizations to combat the gaps that have evolved outta the situation facing african americans, ie technology and economic development....

but whose gonna pay for it?

and better yet, maybe the best thing we could do as a symbol of our apology is to stomp out slave labor on a global level....maybe then people would buy an apology...but where will my polo shirt be made?

Dusty Lipschitz

03-26-2002, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by Pilau Hands

I love quesadillas.

you are the mang!

and beards...
Originally posted by beardo "don't call me dubya" bush
i simply stated everything i knew on the subject.

jeez, i dont even know what to type...

beard

03-26-2002, 09:14 PM

ha, its obvious that youre better informed and a better person* than i, dusty, i really dont care dude.

*edited to complete a thought

mental invalid

03-26-2002, 09:18 PM

"beard"?

what the hell is going on here....weird things are abound......

i shudder.....

Pilau Hands

03-26-2002, 09:24 PM

i think what we all need to do is turn up the volume
and listen to "Do the Evolution" a few times.
I do this every morning, and I'm as fit as a thistle...or a whistle...uhh...
eventually this does make you want to jump around and break things,
but whose apartment can't stand to have a little cleaning

sitting on the just keeps my buns in shape.
there are times when i really want to have one stance or another
on the issues, but i just can't reconcile calling someone "correct"
that's a great power to grant a person or group, and i'm not that nice.

here's perhaps the saddest part of all...
this is the day santa claus died kids...

maybe my answer is that there is none. things have been fucked up for so long, and the entire structure of the world society is so deeply rooted, that it's likely no big change will ever take place. marching and petitions do occasionally get things done...but to what extent. fifty years later, there are times when we still should ask, is "civil rights" really just a buzz word? will reparations happen? probably not. should they? in my opinion...probably not, but i don't care to get into it cause i'm still eating quesadillas (but this time i threw some leftover steak in the mizzix).

"Tell you what...how 'bout you just give me some money. Fuck all them. Them mothafuckas is whiney. Give my ass a check and I'll love you forever!"

war...i'm crazy...
when i'm crazy at war...
war...i'm crazy...
when i'm crazy at war...
war...i'm crazy...
when i'm crazy at war...
war...i'm crazy...
when i'm crazy at war...

Dusty Lipschitz

03-26-2002, 09:26 PM

beard, you wan bef?

lol, obviously we are both losing something somewhere, including our point, in the post. i wasnt trying to say that one was better then the other, or that.... argh. whatevs.

im sure the prob was just that i mis-read or understood your first reply and it snowballed.

point?
indians dont consider it even
arent you from...?
;)
(jeezus, i at least hope that joke makes it transcends and makes it thru the T1 connection...)

mental invalid

03-26-2002, 09:27 PM

...totally.....you gotta see the video for that....

damit dusty snuck in, pilau you get the point....touring band 2000

beard

03-26-2002, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by Dusty Lipschitz

point?
indians dont consider it even

exactly, and i agree with the indians. all i was saying were the few points of re embersment that i was familiar with, and dont know if there are any plans for more. if it were up to me, id be asking the indians where its ok for us to live.

Pilau Hands

03-26-2002, 09:40 PM

i snuck in too roe. haha.
up high, down low, too slow!

another issue where my thoughts relate to something recent is the hawaiian sovereignty movement.
http://www.hawaii-nation.org/nation/index.html

anyone who's been to Hawaii...and taken a look around. can you really imagine any kind of real sovereignty taking place? 99% of the island of oahu is a corporate paradise. and then you have the hawaiian homesteads that you DO NOT enter without knowing someone intimately. it's a sad state of affairs. should people stop protesting? no not at all...but...but what?

chicken butt.

Dusty Lipschitz

03-26-2002, 09:43 PM

beard-
cool
like ma bell...
(beasties reference, hope you pick up on it...)

HESHIANDET

03-26-2002, 09:43 PM

i think are2 is on point.

there is something up w/ dusty and beardo. interoffice special olympics i say. and dusty, wtf happened to a home depot run? silly goose

Cracked Ass

03-26-2002, 09:43 PM

By the time I read all of the responses I got tired of the idea of adding my own, but I guess I'll try anyway.
First off, there are no adequate reparations available for the damage done to blacks, native Americans, or any other group. American CEOs could maybe give away all their corporations to members of races who got shafted in the past, and just invert the power structure for a couple hundred years...that would approach being "fair". We all know it's not going to happen.
There is no justice on this earth. I don't say that bitterly, just realistically. In the absence of justice, there is only the pursuit of whatever you can get. So I give props to blacks trying to shake down corporations for anything they can find useful or meaningful, be that money or a simple acknowledgment of past wrongdoing.
I think the most realistic solution is to scrap the past and work on the present. Blacks face plenty of disadvantage today which can be addressed via policy changes in education, housing and poverty issues, abandoning the foolish drug war, and other root cause matters. Meanwhile whites must heed what mental invalid pointed out early in the thread: it's easy to forget when there's nothing to forgive. I think a lot of anxious white people are looking for a quick fix, but the slate can't be wiped clean with a few penitent words and a cash handout.

shameless self promotion

03-26-2002, 09:55 PM

"I think a lot of anxious white people are looking for a quick fix, but the slate can't be wiped clean with a few penitent words and a cash handout."

On point...!

Ps. Im a honkey

Dusty Lipschitz

03-26-2002, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Cracked Ass
By the time I read all of the responses I got tired of the idea of adding my own, but I guess I'll try anyway.
First off, there are no adequate reparations available for the damage done to blacks, native Americans, or any other group. American CEOs could maybe give away all their corporations to members of races who got shafted in the past, and just invert the power structure for a couple hundred years...that would approach being "fair". We all know it's not going to happen.
There is no justice on this earth. I don't say that bitterly, just realistically. In the absence of justice, there is only the pursuit of whatever you can get. So I give props to blacks trying to shake down corporations for anything they can find useful or meaningful, be that money or a simple acknowledgment of past wrongdoing.
I think the most realistic solution is to scrap the past and work on the present. Blacks face plenty of disadvantage today which can be addressed via policy changes in education, housing and poverty issues, abandoning the foolish drug war, and other root cause matters. Meanwhile whites must heed what mental invalid pointed out early in the thread: it's easy to forget when there's nothing to forgive. I think a lot of anxious white people are looking for a quick fix, but the slate can't be wiped clean with a few penitent words and a cash handout.

i agree with the cracked one
the one point that i "disagree" with is the "...is to scrap the past and work on the present.", but knowing cracked, i dont think it was meant in a "forget the past" kind of light. more in an acknowledge, accept, remember, move on kinda of way. just wanted to clarify.

and i think the ideal/realistic solution is the are2/cracked combo. accurate portrayal of history combined with the above mentioned.
it would be much easier to "fix" if the bottom line damage done to blacks was just monetary, but the reality is that the financial impact of slavery on blacks is so low on the totem pole...

Are2

03-26-2002, 11:25 PM

word

there is no easy fix, maybe no 'fix' at all...

but i do think that if at least our history books, elementary, and high schools could get the story straight, and accurate, at least the majority of american citizens may be a little more tolerant, a little more educated, a little less ignorant, and feel a little more redeemed..

and of course cracked is right when he says there is no justice in this world...true, but at least those fuckers could give credit where it's due and own up to the mistakes of our forefathers.

mental invalid

03-26-2002, 11:43 PM

are2 when you speak of iconsistencies in history books, what exactly do you mean?

thanks for the discussion 12ozers.....goodnite

Are2

03-27-2002, 12:02 AM

of the history books i used and remember (high school was a very long time ago), there was very little mention of some of the seedier, undesirable parts of u.s. history..

while we hear plenty about some of the more famous massacres of the settler days, and plenty about the horrors of slavery, i think a lot of this information is glossed over..i think very few of the long term social implications of these problems, and the manner in which they have been perpetuated, have been discussed..

and while whites have many celebrated leaders in our history, i think that the history books have largely stuck to just a few black leaders (who are 'safe'), like frederick douglass and harriet tubman, or MLK jr....there were plenty of other folks out there changing history that we do not hear about..

and of course, there is current history, which i think is barely even discussed in history classes..the ins and outs of the civil rights struggle, including all the rioting that went along with it, watergate, vietnam, korea, testing nuclear weapons on american soldiers in the 50's......

these are events that are rarely taught in history class..while they definitely do not all apply to the topic at hand, my point is that out history books tend to highlight the sunny side of the situation...

(like when we scammed 2 other countries out of territories..mexico got conned out of california.....this is not at all how the scenario appears in a textbook)

ASER1NE

03-27-2002, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by A Fire Inside
although they may have had to suffer do to their color in their life, it is not because they were slaves...
that is completely wrong , it is entirely because they were slaves , the whole slave trade put whites on a much higher pedastal in comparison to blacks , so much so that this racial divide still hasnt been overcome , all racial bias in one form or another can be rooted back to the days of slavery , and it is extremely naive to think that no one alive has suffered thru slavery , slavery didnt really end until the mid 1950's , and there are hundreds of ppl alive who suffered it themselves or had a family member suffer through it .

Ted Wakowski

03-27-2002, 02:09 AM

Blacks deserve something.

If the same American Government that decided to count southern black slaves as three-fifths of a man in the name of taxes and representation is ever going to come to peace with itself and hold a real sense of integrity then something should definitely be done, and I don't really think it's for whites to decide. If reparations --should their ever be any real attempt at them-- are to be made then they should be settled by the descendants of the victims themselves. Fuck what our government thinks, find all the black people huddled into every ghetto across North America and take a fucking poll.

I think the real joke will be on our racist-bastard predecessors when the world's population is all the same color anyway.

pulk

03-27-2002, 02:15 AM

Originally posted by A Fire Inside
Call me dumb, closed-minded, racist, whatever, but I honestly don't see how paying to repair what happened will solve anything. It happened, and it didn't happen to anyone currently alive, so they shouldn't see any of it. (Does that make sense?)
I'm just trying to say that the people who will recieve the reparation were not living back then to suffer through it, and although they may have had to suffer do to their color in their life, it is not because they were slaves...

I've come to the conclusion it is still too early to think and put words together properly, so hopefully they came off the way I wanted it too...

true.
i don't see how money will make everything nice and happy again in this case. in fact, i'd feel very guilty if i had great-great-grandparents or whoever who were slaves and essentially got paid for it. think of it as cashing in on the hardships of your ancestors. not very ethical.

i haven't heard much about this being in europe but thats my opinion from the impressions i've got.

Poop Man Bob

03-27-2002, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by Dusty Lipschitz

ok, so me personally? toughie. i think the floodgates/pandoras box gets opened when you start making reperations. you better have one of those red-round-deli counter-take a number and wait for it to flash on the digital sign thingies in place. where does it start? where does it end? the easy example is the WTC victims. why them? what about WTC '93? or what about the US embassy bombing in africa? anyways... what would my answer be? ill have to get back after my second cup of the coffee bean elixer...

I'm coming back to this thread after a 10 hour hiatus, so I have yet to read anything beyond this post. With that said, this is a very good point that is often brought up in other cases as well (system-wide discrimination in the application of the death penalty) ... it's hard to pick and choose who is the most "worthy" of a few more dollars in their pockets. And, yes, I understand that it's the representative gesture that is most important - not the actual amount of cash. But, like you said, where will it start, and where will it end? Do we issue an apology to everyone the US has ever pissed off? If so, we'll run out of trees to print the apologies on.

I'm not claiming to have any answers ... just bringing up more questions that arise in my heeeeed.

Poop Man Bob

03-27-2002, 02:49 AM

Originally posted by Ted Wakowski
Blacks deserve something.

If the same American Government that decided to count southern black slaves as ***three fourths*** of a man in the name of taxes and representation is ever going to come to peace with itself and hold a real sense of integrity then something should definitely be done, and I don't really think it's for whites to decide. If reparations --should their ever be any real attempt at them-- are to be made then they should be settled by the descendants of the victims themselves. Fuck what our government thinks, find all the black people huddled into every ghetto across North America and take a fucking poll.

I think the real joke will be on our racist-bastard predecessors when the world's population is all the same color anyway.

Three-fifths.

Ted Wakowski

03-27-2002, 02:55 AM

Originally posted by A Fire Inside
It happened, and it didn't happen to anyone currently alive, so they shouldn't see any of it.

I'm just trying to say that the people who will recieve the reparation were not living back then to suffer through it

There are still quite a few black people very much alive who have -- in this lifetime -- found themselves whipped by crooked car antennas in southern streets, blasted with water hoses, raped and beaten, woken up to a missing wife or husband or relative or friend only to find they had been dragged to a tree and hung from it. All at the hands of brainless twits, arrogant rednecks, misguided "average joes" and radical extremists, many of whom are also still alive and NOT doing time.

Ted Wakowski

03-27-2002, 02:56 AM

Originally posted by Poop Man Bob

Three-fifths.

Good call, it's been edited.

mental invalid

03-27-2002, 03:59 PM

okay are2, i figured thats what you meant....skewed or bias history lessons...which im sure all nations do....but yeah youre right its a problem...

does anyone know the title of the book that deals with realistic accounts of us history....its something "american history, blah blah"...yeah ambiguous....its supposedly quite eye opening, and ive always wanted to read it...

i heard a fact on the way home that reparations experts are claiming that the back pay on slave labor adjusted would be about 1.7 trillion dollars....which is equivalent to 1/7 the the gross domestic product of the us....

that is serious cash....