when did graffito go mid-west?

[newyuckshity]

i was just curious when graffiti blew up so hard. kids been doing their thing in germany for a little bit but when did every little town in middle america have a scene.
kids coming out of the wood work. i traveled a bit in 94 and didnt see shit in atlanta virginia or the carolinas, never mind omaha or that huge texas freight explosion.

i know the internet etc, but there has to be more reasons.

opinions please.

[WITS]

For one of the largest cities in the country this Houston is pathetic when it comes to graffiti. Not much of anything is up here. Lots of freights though... because they're easy and people are afraid of getting caught. hahah... I'm an asshole.

Oh no! I have divulged the secret location!

[whoami]

Shits been running here for a pretty long time...

[fizm]

well, in kc...it's been an odd immigration of writers from elsewhere, mostly. people come through here, drop their peace and move on. most of the biggest influences here have been from other places. and i guess that has influenced the people that live here. dalek - richmond, scribe - boston, vizie - tx. i think okae is from somewhere else. and probably most importantly east from nyc, at the beginning of all that att shiz.

anyway, i'm not going to pretend to know more than i do about the history and whatnot. but that's what i know about this city.

[WITS]

I didn't really say anything about when graff started popping up here.. Ummm. I don't really know. I guess i first noticed it in the late 80's/early 90's. There wasn't much though. No one really going all out around the city and shit as far as I could tell until at least halfway through the 90's. But it still sucks here basically. Lazy mofo's.




PS.... We haven't forgotten about that shit you dissed M and P... It's coming back around!

[railroadjerk]

fizm cool out on being the kc historian around here bro, it doesnt come off real well...

on that note, i saw your van in westport the other day, by zowies...fun stuff.

[CROOKWCMGMC]

when did it come? uh im still waiting for that to drop.

[metallix]

fr8's

[fizm]

Originally posted by railroadjerk
fizm cool out on being the kc historian around here bro, it doesnt come off real well...

on that note, i saw your van in westport the other day, by zowies...fun stuff.

alright. most of the shit i say about kc or whatever, already got blown up by that article last year or whenever. or is otherwise common knowledge to anyone here. if you're suggesting cops are gathering info, they've got to know all that by now if i do. anyway, it's all good. just trying to say a little bit about the...migration of style.

and i'm about to redo that van, or let someone else do it, email me if you want to. fem might too. i think i'm going to start redoing it every month or two if i stop being lazy.

[fizm]

i just realized that this thread title says "graffito." GRAFFITO!

sounds so much more fun!

[mizery]

i thought east was from chicago?

[fizm]

maybe, heh, i'm just going from memory. he brought that new york style, that's for sure...

[mafIAkilla]

there isnt graffiti in the midwest. a2m,mayhem,att,and kms are made up crews that dont really exist. all the graffiti you see "from the midwest" is actually done with a brush by an underground art school graduate organization that obtains money by kidnapping young heiresses (they are the ones that kidnapped patty hearst). do not believe the lies.....

[T.T Boy]

canadas been experiancing graffiti since the 70s.

[newyuckshity]

Originally posted by mafIAkilla
there isnt graffiti in the midwest. a2m,mayhem,att,and kms are made up crews that dont really exist. all the graffiti you see "from the midwest" is actually done with a brush by an underground art school graduate organization that obtains money by kidnapping young heiresses (they are the ones that kidnapped patty hearst). do not believe the lies.....
aww are you still sore from what i said about your thread?
or did i?
i cant keep track of all my jocks.

Originally posted by T.T Boy
canadas been experiancing graffiti since the 70s.


well i dont know about all that......
i have painted with COSOE and he is the FIRST writer out of canada.
when he started writing and the reasons he writes...well i will let him tell you himself.

THEE FIRST.

everyone elses thanks for posting i am getting it piece by piece

[THE LAW]

1. people move. (from big cities and start scenes.)

2. mass media.

3. freights.

[WITS]

Originally posted by newyuckshity



well i dont know about all that......
i have painted with COSOE and he is the FIRST writer out of canada.
when he started writing and the reasons he writes...well i will let him tell you himself.

THEE FIRST.


I have my doubts about Cos being the first writer from Canada.. How the fuck would he know that anyway??? Hahah.. I am the first web-toed writer out of Texas! Baammmm!

[Dr. Dazzle]

What exactly is "mid west"?? How can you be in the middle but in the west? Either you're west or you're not. And how come you never hear about "mid east"????

[newyuckshity]

^ ^ ^

i have contemplated this very same thought. and i think it comes down to this
the east has a lot of big cities. all the was to chicago cleveland etc. so thats where people assume the "east" stops. there is a lot of space between chi-town and cali so you have to call it something.
its not quite the east and its not quite the west. but it is west of most of the big cities and at the same time in the middle of the country

hence "middle west"

........i guess.


you know when your the first writer when your tag is the only tag running...anywhere. and there were none before you.

[mafIAkilla]

yes i am sore about what you said in response to my thread,because i quit doing graffiti over what you said. i now just collect cans of paint and wish i could do something with them,but then i remember that i am in a crew that is not real. i dream of the day that i can please you newyuck,because i would really like to paint pretty pictures again. please,please,please give me permission to paint and use my crew name again.please,because seeing as you are from new york,you are automatically a real writer,correct? pleeeeeeeeaaaaaaaasssssssssseeeeeee.....

[newyuckshity]

Originally posted by mafIAkilla
yes i am sore about what you said in response to my thread,because i quit doing graffiti over what you said. i now just collect cans of paint and wish i could do something with them,but then i remember that i am in a crew that is not real. i dream of the day that i can please you newyuck,because i would really like to paint pretty pictures again. please,please,please give me permission to paint and use my crew name again.please,because seeing as you are from new york,you are automatically a real writer,correct? pleeeeeeeeaaaaaaaasssssssssseeeeeee.....

hey know what i aint about hate or silly sarcasm.
you can do what you want. in my opinion and its only my opinion, i said you had can control (i think).
but then again i would not post my own shit cause i feel like thats cheating.
but on the other hand, i dont really care about a crew or some dude that dont know their history. i dont hate you for that. do your thing, its all about painting so i dont think anyone else really cares either.
cause your from out of state and your excused.
i mean if i met some kid that wrote DUST or DONDI or CAP what could i say?

[Anti]

I think the term midwest refers to the mid point of pioneer types western migration.

????

[mafIAkilla]

well thank you for complementing my sarcasm. means im doing something good. that and can control.....

[T.T Boy]

Originally posted by newyuckshity



well i dont know about all that......
i have painted with COSOE and he is the FIRST writer out of canada.
when he started writing and the reasons he writes...well i will let him tell you himself.

THEE FIRST.

everyone elses thanks for posting i am getting it piece by piece


well, ive heard different versions of the story. there might be a few people on this board who can clear all thsi up. one of my good friends was one of the first writers/crews in vancouver, and he agrees that cosoe was the first writer there. i would have to agree with this. im not too sure about canada, when i was saying its been here since the 70s, i was actually referring to Toronto as the origonator of canadian graffiti. but imnot too sure who started when out there, ive only had brief conversations with some old schoolers from there. possibly if big poppa k could elaborate on this hed clear up alot of possible confusion. as im pretty sure it started out there.

[fizm]

colonization was on the east coast. that's why texas and shit is considered the old west. because it was west of the colonies. california and the west coast is the farthest west of there, but mo, il, etc are in the middle of that range of west-ness.

[Ted Wakowski]

I've actually thought a lot about graffiti's origins and inciting factors. The best conclusions I've drawn are as follows:

Graffiti, As I see it, is basically a bi-product of overdevelopment, overpopulation and heightened population density within areas. Just look at the origins; some people say that it started in LA with Mexican gangs, or in Philly -- cities exemplary of the prior symptoms -- and the majority will agree that the place where graf found the most momentum and really took off was in New York City, one of the biggest and most heavily populated/crowded cities on the planet (and arguably the center of the modern world). Those particular NYC writers shoved together into a labyrinth of buildings, bricks, and each other embraced it as a fresh expression of that city life, a rebellion against the system, and a ticket to recognition in a melting pot of cultural activity. From there it spread, pretty quickly when considering the grand scheme of things, to other cities of comparable size, culture, development and population, even moving out of America and gaining a mass acceptance in Europe -- another heavily populated, largely urban environment. Since graf was such a train-oriented phenomenon at this time it seemed to find the most acceptance in cities with large-scale, fully functioning transit systems, temporarily keeping it from "blowing up" in smaller or just different cities with the potential for a strong graf scene but a lack of prolific transit.

Somewhere around the late 80s/early 90s, when transit graf was thoroughly roadblocked and eradicated, it started moving heavily into the streets, which opened a "graffiti door" to those cities without as much exposure or interest in train graf but with an environment generally condusive to other aspects of graffiti. And so these cities began to assimilate into the graf culture. The growing freight scene, transient writers left over from the "golden era," magazines, hip-hop's emerging commercial popularity, movies and magazines also played a big part in helping to push the process along.

These days, with the internet's popularity, the reemergence of graffiti's marketability (clothing lines like ecko & pnb, graphic designers for large corporations with "graf-styles," etc.) and the subsequent growth, development and rising population of America's major cities, graf is spreading like fucking wildfire and even sprawling out into the bubbling suburbs surrounding major cities. Eventually I think we'll be seeing graf in places that seem almost ridiculous to people who grew up on original subway and city shit, which to me is a dope effect.



*Once again I've typed way-the-fuck too much.

[imported_b0b]

I know nothing about graf in the midwest, but generally a scene will start when you get one or two people that get up so much that all the kids are going crazy for it and all want to be like them. That gets the ball rolling. All it takes is one person to be relentless enough and bam!

[worldoflies]

in 94 there was definately graffiti in the dc suburbs of virginia. that same year i was shocked to see columbus ohio bombed.

keep in mind that graffiti had spread to chicago, pittsburgh, LA, the bay area, boston etc while the trains were still running in the early 80's. stylewars being shown on pbs is often cited as a catalyst.

i know that the more experienced people on this board have a generally low opinion of him(or at least did when the subject came up a while back), but upski gives a pretty accurate synopsis of how graffiti was spread in bomb the suburbs. there was a big media bboy craze around 82-84 and this spread graffiti to a lot of smaller cities. also of course writers moving from ny/phila were a big factor. prior to this there was graffiti in ny, nj and phil. and gang graffiti in la. if anyone knows of graffiti outside of the above mentioned areas in the 70's id be interest to hear about it.

then around the early 90's there was another big graffiti craze. this is when more white, suburban kids began writing. this is also when the "graffiti media," mags, vids, graf shops etc became an integral part of the graffiti experience. from this point on, almost all writers would be exposed to magazines, the internet etc before they actually started writing and would buy caps etc. prior to this most writers only saw graffiti with their own eyes or maybe a few picture before picking up the can for themselves. by this time graffiti had become associated with skateboarding and hardcore punk, although that was something already in place from the late eighties that facilitated graffiti's acceptance by middle class suburban youth. im not too sure how this happened.

there were a bunch of tv news programs sensationalizing graf around this time(93), alledging that it was all gang related, dangerous, subversive, pure evil etc. this helped to exacerbate a trend that was already in progress. as of the early 90's, there was still no real scene in detroit and houston, but most other large cities had a graffiti presence.

over the course of the 90's, graffiti crept into the few remaining places where it had yet to penetrate as of 93, although there did not apear to any big nation wide trend like the two earlier examples i mentioned. still, cities that were not bombed by this time are for the most part still pretty weak. ie houston.

if im wrong about any of this let me know.

[Ted Wakowski]

Originally posted by worldoflies
if anyone knows of graffiti outside of the above mentioned areas in the 70's id be interest to hear about it.

Definitely, me too.

I think Twist might have mentioned punk rock as an inciting factor in his early beginnings, as well as other writers. I wonder exactly how long punk has been influencing graffiti for?

[DITDxCULT]

I live in the mid-west/south/east and I had no idea how graffiti originated. I didn't get into it from seeing it on the streets, or from hip hop. Honestly I have never been a big fan of hip hop. I got into graffiti threw punk rock and hardcore music.
I was in a band that toured alot, and when traveling you meet alot of people and see alot of graffiti. While in Philly years ago my band stayed at "314" aka, the ink and dagger house. This is where I met Dasar and Nope. They talked to me a little about graffiti and even though I was a total herb (still am) they were nice about it, and educated me a little. It wasn't until years later I knew there alais's. Thats the best about graffiti to me, and that is something I will always respect.

Originally posted by Ted Wakowski
I think Twist might have mentioned punk rock as an inciting factor in his early beginnings, as well as other writers. I wonder exactly how long punk has been influencing graffiti for?

I don't think graffiti has been influencing punk, but just some kids involved in the punk/hardcore scene. I will let someone else give their opinion on this becuase I don't have much to say about it. My opinion is that I think graffiti finds people, and talks to people regardless of where they come from. Some people get it, and some people don't.

[shameless self promotion]

Originally posted by T.T Boy
canadas been experiancing graffiti since the 70s.

Now arent you guys bad ass??!!;) :D

[Wase_137]

I know that in Colorado, graff has been around since the late 80's/ early 90's. Only a few people were doing it then, but now it seems like it has snow balled, everyone wants to paint. I think that it comes from people that have links with other people in different places, say if your cousin from NY who was a writer came down for the summer or whatever and showed you what the deal was, then you started, that could have some base on what is being discussed here....

[SMARTYsniffenJOE]

first New York got its props,

Then it was all bout what was goen on in the west coast.

then the euro scene exploded.

Then The southern scene (texas), which has turned into nothen but euro styles it seems.

The north got some credit..

BUT WHO ARE THESE KIDS FROM THE STICKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fiberoptical]

I think it has something to do with them MTV commercials.I think there may be some subliminimal messages in there telling kids under the age of 16 from anywhere in middle america to do weird, subversive things. I think it may also have something to do with the water, that shit tastes mighty strange around dem dere parts.

[cocaine mustache]

i am pretty sure, though talking to people and careful research that my town had graffiti as far up to the late sixities.
not at all focused on the idea of a identidy, but more religious orienated markings.

[cocaine mustache]

Originally posted by oh, hello
i am pretty sure, though talking to people and careful research that my town had graffiti as early as the late sixities.
not at all focused on the idea of a identidy, but more religious orienated markings.

[newyuckshity]

i must say.......i am impressed. i see some of you really went all out over this. so im not the only dude who got a dome for these type of questions. though there are a few cats on here that i dont really agree with i still think there input is important because they represent what is out there.

I don’t know how much deeper this question can go but if you still have some contributions please keep the thread going.

be it punk hip hop or disco, we all got into to it to GET-UP and create. i dont like the debate "i started writing cause i skate board" or "i started writing cause i im the essence of hip hop culture" its all about painting and getting your name all over the city...or in this case the town, field, country or whathave you. and this is what brings kids together. not music not clothes not style.

graffiti has been around maybe 30 years tops. with REAL thro-ups and pieces like seen cap blade. and in NY its alomst all but gone. i would say 80% of it has been cleaned. trains...gone. highways...gone. piecing spots...almost all gone. streets... going going...
so enjoy it while it lasts. there is not too much history here compared to the grand scheme of things. i mean if you think about its still young to the game of life.

[Cifra]

the truth is that not every lil town in IOWA has a scene
but the whole world wants expression and if graff exists in mjor cities then it would be in Chicago or Mineapolis or Saint Louis...
THat is the real Midwest... everything that is true is recognized it's only logical that Graffiti earned this many disciples...

My moms was writing political messages when she was fifteen years old....with a spray can.... and this is in a 3rd world country in the 70's !?!?!?..... why would it not reach suburban kids.......?!?!?

[ArtvandaL]

conio cifra tienes razon mi hermano, my pops been writing political messages in chitown back in the 70s on mailboxes, but what would drive sububan kids to do graff? i dont know, my opinion is that they like art, they like graffiti and want to wite there names real big with colors, so they decide to do it with spray paint like they see in movies of car chases in LA, or gang movies. But, overall I think bombing/tagging and piecing came from different ways.check it out, the immigrants came over from their war torn countries, and did not want their land to be lost, nor in their memories or anyone elses. They were most likeley stressed out thinkin so much about whats going on back home, and didnt want to feel like they arent doing anything to support the revolution or their side of the fight, so here in America, in the big cities (cause immigrants dont exactly go to Iowa or Mississipi) they wrote their political messages on walls, on street walls, mailboxes, trucks etc... it didnt have to be a big ass message, it couldve just been... BORICUA DE CORAZON. once they got the hang of it, you know, theyre friends tellin them"hey I seen this shit, you did that?!? wow!" they then right their names, like "JUNITO" for the fuck of it. From then on the tagger is born if he was destined that way. now..
the piecer, to me, is a guy that likes to write his name on walls, just for the fuck of it, and he starts out hidden, cause he wants it to look nice, unlike the tagger JUNITO who at first didnt give a fuck how it looked as long as it were there. Ill continue later...
please comment on this and dont hate if you cant relate, remember I'm talkin about what PROBABLY went on back in the days before we were born, and the immigrant was young and anxious,living in a whole new "free world" where gangs roamed the streets like the "warriors" taggin graveyards. peace.

oye cifra, mandame un email cuando puedas