fuck terrorist bullshit

[freeze]

here's my idea to take care of all this terrorist bullshit...the u.s.e....united states east. the fucking peace talks that have been going on forever are now fucking done with. we've given these assholes plenty of time to figure shit out, but they're too fucking hung up on being all high and mighty...fuck these third world pricks, we're taking over from here. the first plan of action is to construct two new world trade centers, round up every last mother fucking person even remotely linked to some terrorist group and stick them in the top ten floors and then remote control two boeing 747's into those mother fuckers. then make all of their bitch asses clean the shit up. then build two new wtc's to serve as the new capital of the united states east. i'm tired of hearing about all this shit happening when we're the fucking country taking care of everyone's bullshit little problems. fuck them all, let's take it over so gas prices will go down to a nickel a gallon when we have an all access pass to their oil. god damn, i need to be elected president.

[Pistol]

hell yeah.
Move over the motherfuckin' USA is taking over.
Canada better watch out just in case we get bored or finish too fast.

[Dr. Dazzle]

americans always stick their nose in other peoples business. Who the fuck are you to say what's right and wrong??

[ctrl+alt+del]

HES GOT EVERYTHING FIGURED OUT!!!!!!!!!!


wheres the rolling eyes icon???!!? bah, i dont need it.

and whats with the u.s.e.?? is the west not a part of it? oh well, i dont mind.

[Pistol]

motherfuckers crash planes into our buildings that is our business.

don't fuck with us unless you want to feel the wrath of the US Armed forces.

[freeze]

the only reason we stick our nose in other people's business is because if we don't mother fuckers start flying planes into our buildings because we didn't help them solve their little bitch ass problem...need i remind you that the united states mother fucking gave osama bin laden all the training and military knowledge that he has. fuck him and every other mother fucker for using it against us. if it weren't for the united states russia would've taken over all of afghanistan in 1979, so yeah, we take care of shit.

[Esai]

Damn, theres some stupid motherfuckers out in America. Keep up the good work and vote republican fool

[REGULATOR]

DAMN NIGGAH YOU HIGH AS FUCK!!! acting like this is holyyyoowd stop talkin bout kids you dont care and friends in saunas

[freeze]

here i go venting again...this shit really pisses me off. i don't understand how you can call yourself an american and not want complete and total revenge against any asshole that fucks with us. look what we do to criminals that are a part of our country, why should it not be ten times worse for those who commit crimes against our country who are not a part of it? and to try and call me stupid for thinking this way i hope you're content living your life right where you are, because if the US keeps allowing itself to get shit on like you propose we let happen that's the way life's gonna be. fuck me if i'm wrong, but i don't want to live like that.

[KillYurSteel]

fuck war erase the hate increase the peace!!!!!!!!!!

[Dr. Dazzle]

Originally posted by freeze
need i remind you that the united states mother fucking gave osama bin laden all the training and military knowledge that he has.

You know why? To help Afghanistan fight Russia. Where do you fit into that picture?

[freeze]

please...do i really need to give a fucking history lesson here? i'm well aware of the fact that the US was bitter enemies with russia at the time they invaded afghanistan in '79. i know the cold war and the nuclear threat and all that bullshit was going on. all i'm saying is that it's fucking ridiculous for anyone claiming to be american to roll over and take 9/11 with no sentiment for retribution when we're the mother fuckers who educated this cave dwelling pussy piece of shit who isn't even willing to carry the shit out himself and has to send his little bitch ass clansmen out to do his dirt work. "oh, say can you see..."

[KillYurSteel]

CAN I GET A MUTHA FUCKIN AMEN HERE!!!!!

[Dr. Dazzle]

Dude.....you are the typical american. Maybe you should ask why they attacked you......

[KillYurSteel]

who me

[Dr. Dazzle]

no freeze

[KaBar]

I don't get all these gangsta-talking guys. They talk plenty bad ass until they piss off the mass majority of average American, middle-class people. Then we get blood in our eye and SLAUGHTER THE SHIT OUT OF OUR ENEMIES, and all the sudden it's no more "Americans are a bunch of pussies, we can disrespect them all we want, you can just spit on Americans and they're too pussy to fight."

Well, FUCK YEAH we'll fight. And when we get started, we INCINDERATE THE SHIT out of our enemies. I don't notice the goddamned Japanese talking any shit. Hell no. Last time they took us on, we blew the shit out of two of their cities just to let them see what was coming. We levelled Germany to ashes and rubble under a relentless rain of American bombs. And the punk ass Al-Quaida doesn't even come close to being as formidable an enemy as a nation like Nazi Germany.

America needs to toughen up. Let them bring their sorry, bitch-ass, terroristic crap on. We will hunt them till the end of time, and kill every god damned last member of the Al-Quaida and the Taliban. We will pour ammunition and tanks and fighter-bombers into Israel as if there is no tomorrow. We will give decent, loyal Muslim allies like Turkey and Egypt an ocean of assistance and support.

We will put a price on the head of every member of Al-Quaida, to where their own blood kin will be turning them in for the reward. And when we get them in our custody and control, they will piss themselves in fear over their fate. They should be trembling in their boots, because American justice is relentlessly advancing towards them, with bayonets fixed. Their bones will bleach in the desert. They are FUCKED.

[Esai]

On that note freeze, do you agree then that some palestinian who lost his whole family to Israel(funde and created byt he US) is therefore obligated to kill some Israelis or Americans as loyalty and retribution for his countrymen and family? To correct you Afghanistan was once a progressivly moving country till russia and the US came in with the cold war, the US did make bin laden and then gave the taliban the country rather than the former leader which allowed for decade of oppression. The US also did this in various latin american countries in the 80's, overthrowing leaders who where restoring land to the poor and doing some good shit for once, to fill these places with evil dictators and death squads killing millions to this day.You think all the Salvadoreans, Dominicans,Haitians,etc. are obligated to kill Americans to make up for their lost loved ones and lives?The US did fuck up their whole program because these old leaders werent doing what major US corporations liked.

[KillYurSteel]

ok well in that case.......CAN I GET A MUTHA FUCKIN AMEN IN HERE!!!!!

[freeze]

no see, you're wrong. i'm not your typical american. because i look at all of america as my family where as most americans only care about what affects them directly. i'm sure that you'd feel just the same as i do if your family was in any way touched by 9/11 (mine wasn't). but the way that i look at things is that if you fuck with one part of our country, you're fucking with the whole fucking nation and you're bound to get fucked with. and really i have no idea why the hell why one might claim that we deserved to get attacked as you are suggesting. sure, we do go overseas and handle other people's bullshit, but as i've already pointed out, we're in a no win situation with that one because we'd be on someone's shit list if we don't intervene. pretty much we need to take over the world.

[Dr. Dazzle]

Man, whatever, how am I saying you desrved it? Fuck man, it's fucking terrible what happened, and I have huge sympathy for anyone affected by it. But when you pry into the business of other countries, acting like the fucking king of the world, don't be surprised when shit blows up in your face.

It like walking down the street and seeing a fight, with no knowledge of why it's happening. Don't be surprised when you get ounched in the face trying to break it up........

[HESHIANDET]

Originally posted by KaBar
I don't get all these gangsta-talking guys. They talk plenty bad ass until they piss off the mass majority of average American, middle-class people. Then we get blood in our eye and SLAUGHTER THE SHIT OUT OF OUR ENEMIES, and all the sudden it's no more "Americans are a bunch of pussies, we can disrespect them all we want, you can just spit on Americans and they're too pussy to fight."

Well, FUCK YEAH we'll fight. And when we get started, we INCINDERATE THE SHIT out of our enemies. I don't notice the goddamned Japanese talking any shit. Hell no. Last time they took us on, we blew the shit out of two of their cities just to let them see what was coming. We levelled Germany to ashes and rubble under a relentless rain of American bombs. And the punk ass Al-Quaida doesn't even come close to being as formidable an enemy as a nation like Nazi Germany.

America needs to toughen up. Let them bring their sorry, bitch-ass, terroristic crap on. We will hunt them till the end of time, and kill every god damned last member of the Al-Quaida and the Taliban. We will pour ammunition and tanks and fighter-bombers into Israel as if there is no tomorrow. We will give decent, loyal Muslim allies like Turkey and Egypt an ocean of assistance and support.

We will put a price on the head of every member of Al-Quaida, to where their own blood kin will be turning them in for the reward. And when we get them in our custody and control, they will piss themselves in fear over their fate. They should be trembling in their boots, because American justice is relentlessly advancing towards them, with bayonets fixed. Their bones will bleach in the desert. They are FUCKED.
god bless kabar!!!




fuck the world, don't ask me for shit.

[freeze]

esai - as you can tell by my previous posts, i'm all about the retribution...but only if it's going to accomplish something. i'm not arguing that the US hasn't fucked up some country's agendas in the past, i know that we have and will continue to do so, but the reason that this happens is because with the countries that we are helping there is a chance somewhere down the road that they're going to hook us up whereas the countries that we're not helping out offer nothing to us. the world utopia that everyone is wishing for is never going to happen, so the US needs to handle shit for countries that we can use later down the road and if anyone shows any animosity towards the US, we need to fuck the shit out of them to ensure that it never happens again. if it were up to me all of afghanistan would've been a parking lot two weeks after 9/11 just to show the world that we're not a country to be fucked with...EVER. call me unworldly or the what not, but fuck it, i have lived and want to continue to live with the peace of going to the grocery store and not having even the slightest inclination that i might be blown up by some psychotic suicide bomber that these assholes in the mideast have to deal with.

[Esai]

The victims of wtc are not victims of some maniacal terrorist bent on murder, rather they are victims of the greedy actions of arrogant politicians with no concern for anyone unless they vote for em. These actions create poverty in these countries so their investors can do whatever thay want whether its cheap resources(latin america,mideast) or cheap labor(latin amer, asia). Suprisingly the local opressed population begin hurling rocks(palestine) and detonating bombs in oil lines(columbia). Read up on the world before you get on the soapbox dog, you cant base all your ideas on what ABC tells you.

[freeze]

kaBar - you're the shit kid, i think you go off as hard as i do.

[Pistol]

that was weak esai.
that's like me blaming the US govt. for the bald heads that shot and killed my boy for giving us the living conditions that would give birth to gangs.

[Esai]

And the only way to ensure that shit like WTC dont happen again is by changing US foreign policies, not bombing shit. These foreign policies have to be in the intrest of spreading freedom and democracy(which I think was the original goal) rather than stuffing the pockets of rich companies. Next time bush opens his mouth think about what american interests abroad means, its sweatshops and bribes for rescources which we, as the american people, dont see a penny of.

[freeze]

you're fucking kidding me right??? what your'e saying is that the al quada are fucking politicians? by whose standards? their own is the answer to that one buddy. no fucking country in the world recongized the al quada as a mother fucking government. sure they were running the place, but no other respectable country in the world was recognizing them. and you keep bringing up all this obscure ass bullshit about the middle east and latin america...fuck that bullshit. i said it before, i know the US has fucked some people over and i'm sure it will happen again. but guess what kid, these assholes flying planes into our buildings and shit isn't going to solve anything more than us blowing up their shit. simply stated they've gotten themselves into an ass kicking contest and they're missing a leg. we're going to fuck the shit out of them and they're going to be worse off than they were before they decided to fuck with us.

[freeze]

not bombing shit means opening the flood gates for us to get bombed kid, think about it...do you really believe a world utopia can exist?

[Esai]

If you dont feel what Im saying pistol, its all good. But you dont think environment hasanything to do with behavior.Please break down what was so weakk from what I said. I do believe in personal accountability, but just the fact that the system is against us aint right dog.

[T.T Boy]

america can not take on the entire world.

[KillYurSteel]

fuckin a

[Esai]

its like talking to a brick wall.Ita all good homies, I got my opinion, yoall got yours.Its not right for me to hammer mine down your mouths, I hope that at least I made you think a little.

[T.T Boy]

oh yeah and kabar, i agree to an extent with what you said, but its that kind of attitude that got our (Canadian) soldiers killed by your men, some stupid hot head who wanted to kill some towel heads ended up killing our troops.
if your going to do the job, do it right.

[KillYurSteel]

quote:do you really believe a world utopia can exist?:end quote


the only way i see world utopia is if religon is abolished wich is never gonna happen so therfore world utopia is a dream......the terrorists didnt fly those plains into our buildings because they dont like us just because....nope they do that shit in the name of jihad or holy war wich is in their............you guessed it religon

[HESHIANDET]

its fucking 4:30am and you people are driving me crazy.

esai, learn some fucking respect DOG! saying the victims of wtc are vitims of greed and exploitation. and yur insinuating that they (as victims) supported the grede of a very small majority of the US population, say .5%. let alone deserve what happened to them. your a fucking jerk off. i'd be willing to say 60-80 % of the people killed there were from other parts of nyc. parts that aren't wealthy and don't produce the top .5 percentile citizens. you fuckign jerk off! eat shit and choke on a misguided bomb that is blowing up your sisters wedding party by accidnt.

[KaBar]

It absolutely doesn't matter why. They attacked us. FUCK 'EM. Time to spill their guts in the street. Once they're all dead, then you can entertain all these how-many-angels-can-dance-on-the-head-of-a-pin arguments. As far as the Latin American countries go, every last one of them was a civil war. There were Guatamalans and Hondurans and Columbians, etc. on BOTH SIDES of the issue. You try to make it sound like all the wonderful people were all "poor and oppressed," and all the anti-communists were evil monsters. That's not so, and you ought to know better. In Columbia, the government armed rural civilian self-defense patrols with antiquated Mausers and shotguns, because the Government could not afford to keep troops or even a police detachment in every city. The self-defense patrols KILLED THE SHIT out of guerrillas, because they knew who they were and where they lived. They didn't take prisoners and all that , they just went and SHOT their guerrilla asses, and then went home. Within months, the guerrillas disappeared, and good riddance. Then the government disarmed the self-defense patrols. Guess what? The guerrillas came back, and killed the peasants who had the temerity to defend themselves.

In El Salvador, both sides were so corrupt and murderous that it's hard to decide who was worse. That is truly a cursed country.

In Nicaragua, the Contra resistance armed and supported by Colonel Oliver North from the basement of the White House were former soldiers and anti-communist citizens who were run out of Nicaragua by the Communists. We suipplied them by air, with CIA C-130's flown by pilots from the Alabama Air National Guard. Our support allowed the Contras to spread throughoutr the northern part of Nicaragua, much to the outrage of liberals and communists everywhere. Apparently, the murder, torture and rape of conservatives is just great, but when the tables are turned it's horrendous war crimes. The Sandinistas reaped what they sowed. Somoza was corrupt. So were the Sandinistas. The only people who weren't armed were the average people. Nobody will ever pull this shit in the U.S., because we are armed to the fucking teeth.

Even the average people in the United States are fully capable of waging war against the enemies of our country. Who do you think is doing the interrogating of Al-Quaida prisoners in Guantanamo Bay? American Muslims working for the CIA, FBI, National Security Agency (NSA) and the Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA.) And probably a lot of other agencies none of us has ever heard of before.

The money is flowing like a waterfall into the intelligence community. They are hiring like gangbusters. People who were in retirement are getting called back to service. New assets are being developed in every area of American life, I guarantee it. And beneath the civilized, white-shirt-and-rep-tie world of the CIA shown on TV, there are some hard hearted, stone cold killers at work, identifying targets in foreign nations and "servicing" them. Today the target may be some businessman laundering money for terrorists, tomorrow, hit by a bus, killed in a car wreck. Or a mysterious heart attack. Or killed in a robbery, or just died of "natural causes." But definately dead. They have lists, un-ending lists. The gunmen out in the mountains of the Afghanistan tribal areas are by no means the only target, or even the main target. The support system, even here in the U.S., is also a target. Support the Al-Quaida? Better make out a will.

[Pistol]

esai what i thought was weak was trying to say the victims of the WTC were not victims of OBL terrorist Al Qaeda but by Americans greed.

What about the Puerto Rican cook or the Black janitor that died in the WTC. You think they were making mad bills as a result of "The Machine"? They were just like me and you struggling to do what we can to feed out families.

[Esai]

First of all, I agree that all the WTC victims are innocent ,I never said otherwise you moron. If you dont get what Ive been saying(sinceI havent seen most of my topics addressed) than fine, lets agree to disagree. Just stop talking shit to me, its kind of a mute point man. I also am too lazy to continue this but all those fact on the central americas are not quite accurate man, but I dont want to start.I have central american friends who told me quite differently, I also did a thesis on roots of central american political instability not too long ago so Id like to know where you got your fact.I dont mean this sarcastically,I like to look at things from all viewpoints, even the conservative ones.And for columbia the US is taking sides on a civil war which is none of their business, this is cuz the locals are bombing oil plants cuz theyere sick of the pollution and exploitation.

[HESHIANDET]

HOLLA!!!!

[Esai]

You guys dont understand what Im saying.Any victim was not guilty of shit, every body needs a 9 to5 and they were unlucky enough to have theirs at the trade center.Im sayiing these political action by POLITICIANS create the environments that breed terrorism.

[Pistol]

I just disagree with your views on the enemy. You seem to feel the Al Qaeda, Hamas , or Hezbollah are some sort of freedom fighters. They want a piece of the Palestinian pie so that's why they are fighting so hard. These guys are not politicians, they are some fucking nutjobs that want to start a holy war with America, Jews, and anyone that they think has to do with Christianity. They want an end to us plain and simple no change in policies.

[freeze]

you're nuts kid with all this political shit breeds terrorism...the united states, the single most political country in the entire world, has had one civil war that lasted less than a decade and occurred over a centure ago. all of these other countries that yall are claiming to be acting out of political strife and shit have been fighting with each other for damn near half a century and are no where closer to having shit figured out and now they're drawing us into their bullshit by fucking with us. fuck them and fuck you for even thinking of taking their side. laters, i'm fucking sleeping now.

[KillYurSteel]

wowzers this is a hot topic

[Esai]

I dont feel shit for the taliban, fuckem. I do feel for the innocent afghans who died cuz of all of this as wellas the dead americans. About other political movements, I agree with some rebellions cuz they represent the true consensus of the people of their country, not for no other reason. Many of these views are critical of the US.

[Remi Martin]

and another thing about the taliban, from what i heard, our goverment was paying those fools around 45 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR, to stop opium production, while mass executions took place and opium was still grown.
thats wack.

[KaBar]

Esai---I got my facts and opinions from various sources, just like you do. We are on opposite sides of the issue (the Latin American "dirty wars", etc.) and I'm cool with that. I'm not saying that you have to agree with me at all. You don't, and might never do so. If I were you, though, I definately would not accept sources from within the American academic college community as gospel. Most of the professors are liberal, a few are Communists or Socialists. They have an agenda, and they are pushing to change what Americans, and especially "educated" Americans (who will become the leaders of tomorrow) believe.

Ideas are very powerful. The ideas of Hegel supported both the development of National Socialism (Naziism) and Communism, as well as Zionism. I'm quite sure Hegel never dreamed his ideas would end up being contorted into concentration camps and the Gulag system. But they were. Hitler was a monster--he killed six million Jews. Stalin was even worse, he killed 33 million decent Russian citizens who had the poor judgement to fall afoul of the Communist Party.

All of this could have been averted by a single thing: the arming of the population. If every Jewish family in Germany and Poland had owned a Mauser rifle and twenty cartridges of ammunition, Adolf Hitler and his German Worker's Party (DAP) would have been nothing more than a footnote to the German history of the 1930's. The very first time the Nazi's attacked Jews in Germany, they should have died in a hail of 8mm bullets. The Jews should have gone on the offensive, attacking the Nazis in their party offices, in their headquarters, at public rallies. A month of Jewish defense, and the Nazi leadership would have all been six feet under.

The same is true of the Russians. When the NKDV showed up at their homes, they should have just killed them, and "disappeared" the bodies. They should have joined the NKDV, and dispersed the information on where they lived, where they went to clubs, where their families lived, to groups of freedom-loving citizens, who would then take the action that suppression of the Secret Police requires.

her in the United States, there will NEVER be a dictatorship. Because we are an armed nation (270 million firearms, and counting) we are invinceable, as a people. No dictator, no invader, no tyrant will EVER be able to seize power in the U.S. We will have a respresentative, Constitutional republic, or we will have rivers of blood in the streets. As long as every school child is taught how to elect representatives, and how to conduct a meeting, the seeds of a republic are sewn in thirty million little student hearts every day. American Democracy rests on "three boxes." The Jury Box, the Ballot Box and the Cartridge Box. It lives inside us, individually. Nobody can extinguish it, unless they kill us all. And nobody can do that.

[imported_Tesseract]

you're really twisted man...






Y'all kids should go watch top gun for the #364578990 time, blah
terrorism can eat a dick, listen to what you saying you lil fascists

[Mr. Mang]

Originally posted by freeze
here's my idea to take care of all this terrorist bullshit...the u.s.e....united states east. the fucking peace talks that have been going on forever are now fucking done with. we've given these assholes plenty of time to figure shit out, but they're too fucking hung up on being all high and mighty...fuck these third world pricks, we're taking over from here. the first plan of action is to construct two new world trade centers, round up every last mother fucking person even remotely linked to some terrorist group and stick them in the top ten floors and then remote control two boeing 747's into those mother fuckers. then make all of their bitch asses clean the shit up. then build two new wtc's to serve as the new capital of the united states east. i'm tired of hearing about all this shit happening when we're the fucking country taking care of everyone's bullshit little problems. fuck them all, let's take it over so gas prices will go down to a nickel a gallon when we have an all access pass to their oil. god damn, i need to be elected president.



you're exactly the kind of guy with one of those "kill bin laden" shirts and a "god bless america" sticker on your car aren't you? yeah, kill him cause HE is the root of all our problems . . . it's like our president has already unleashed his army of GW clones (you, of course, being the prime example).

third world pricks? how about you actually read up on some shit instead of listening to republican mommy and daddy and the mainstream media. your whole post was full of stupidity.


school's in. let me break it down.

1.) people like you make really bad decisions (like "fuck em all we want oil!")
2.) other countries get pissed off because you're greedy
3.) you continue to piss them off because you really are greedy
4.) some members of their country can't take it, so they fuck us up
5.) we continue the cycle of stupidity

not saying terrorism is right, but that's how i see it.

[Daddy_Screw]

freeze you're a dickhead.

youre the reason they bombed your country, cos of people like you.fucking wake up/

[•nakone•]

uh ok

[KaBar]

All you people that have a shred of sympathy for Al-Quaida and the Taliban and terrorists in any capacity need a serious ass reality check. You know what happens to people who fuck with the U.S.? Do you remember the "Highway of Death?" Between Kuwait and Basra, Iraq? The Iraqis werte hauling ass back to Iraq with all the booty from Kuwait, and we caught their sorry asses on the highway. The next morning, there were thousands of dead Iraqis and hundreds of burned, smashed vehicles on the highway to Basra. We blew their shit AWAY. It wasn't the first time and it won't be the last.

Your concept of the world as one big community is completely bullshit. American liberals are the whiney little kid at school that wants the schoolyard bullies to stop taking his lunch money because "it's just not fair." You know what stops them? An older brother that beats their asses senseless, that's what. Conciousness-raising classes don't do shit. Brotherhood rallies don't do shit. Appeals to their better nature don't do shit. What works is DEADLY FORCE. That , they respect. But they do not respect anything else. All the feel-good, sensitive, liberal crapola is a luxury, a luxury paid for by hard young killers on the ground in body armor and carrying a rifle.

FUCK our enemies. May their rotting corpses cover their entire country, the sorry fucking bastards. We should honor and respect the people that keep our nation free and safe, and we should feel nothing but hate and contempt for our enemies. THEY ATTACKED US. May they rot in Hell, and the sooner, the better.

[Daddy_Screw]

Thats right Kabar, bomb the shit out of em, so they can bomb the shit out of you, then you bomb em again, they strike back,you strike back then,shit we're all dead.

[T.T Boy]

Originally posted by Daddy_Screw
Thats right Kabar, bomb the shit out of em, so they can bomb the shit out of you, then you bomb em again, they strike back,you strike back then,shit we're all dead.

[T.T Boy]

p.s, america, you have your own country would you please stay out of ours.

[Agt. Adopus]

WAR IS TERRORISM .

[Pistol]

All countries please bomb the us constantly.
We won't do a thing.

But please stop after because it's not nice and we are all human beings.

peace.

[imported_Klypse]

You guys talking about this shit is like someone from the hood talking about chemistry while high and sipping on some yak. Yall dont know what the fuck you are talking about. None of the public does. Al qaeda are not some crazy mother fuckers who are on some kill everyone shit. Just like americans are forced into thinking that middle eastern people are the source of all evil, the middle eastern people think the same about americans. What both sides should do is sit down and take a look at the governments who control and represent them. This whole feud with muslims started when the U.S. government decided to fund the jews in their quest to hypocritically fuck the people of palestine over for money, oil, and strategic location. Afghanistan has no government, they are just the public, they no one to represent them and there fore got fucked over by the U.S. and Israelites government. Throwing planes through a fucking building is absolutely not what these people want. Its a last ditch effort. The black art of terrorism is all they can do. And the people who did it dont represent Afghanistans public at all. Osama is a rich faggot who got payed by the U.S. for opium and terrorist acts. The rest of the country is now suffering for the acts of a few. Now the U.S. is fucking afghanistan and innocent muslims again because they now have a reason to attack. This is bull shit. Its a continuous cycle of greed. Whats really sad is whats happening to the public, we are all so ignorant, and that is our demise. Its true most muslims hate Americans, and most americans hate muslims, but what we should really hate is our governments. They pit us against each other when we should be against them. All of you saying that you know the truth is some hoe shit. Watching fucking cnn, or abc is not knowing the truth. None of us know the real truth and probably never will. Dont believe the hype.

[JimmyHofa]

People act like republicans (which i don't consider myself to be) are the only ones who are brainwashed, when the fact is that all the people who currently find fault with American policy are equally drawn into believe a given set of ideas (even if they aren't the status quo). Their uniqueness doesn't make them true. I personally dont think destroying afganistan is the right thing to do, nor do i think that rolling over and taking it in the ass is proper. But if you want people to except your "radical authority questioning idealism" you have to accept their anger. I'm sure alot of people on the anti-American tip are sincere and to those people i say "rock-on", but alot of people say that shit just to sound cool and politically aware. Bottom line: America plays by school yard rules; hit us and will hit you back twice as hard, even if we deserved it. Me, I like my lifestyle, and politcal idealism doesn't pay the rent.

[KaBar]

One of the most annoying things about political events is the "stage-acted" aspect of public political behaviors. Photo opportunities, various kinds of "support" for people that have suffered droughts, or plagues or wars or some other calamity. If you watch CNN or MSNBC, you'll see a certain number of these "Vice-President Cheney poses shaking hands with Premier Mawhoosis at the Dingleberry River Summit" kind of events. While all this smoke-and-mirrors is going on, the real action is taking place out in the middle of some stinking swamp, where Delta Force commandos, supporting Dingleberria Army forces complete sweep-and-clear missions to rid the swamp of rebel Twinkletoes People's Republic guerrillas who are dead-set on blowing up the joint Mobil-Exxon/BP pipeline that is being built through the middle of the remote Dingleberry River Swamp.
Nobody knows or cares about the guys that are the pointed end of the stick. All they care about is that the price of gasoline in New Jersey goes up up or down twenty cents per gallon.

The United States is the envy of every single nation on earth. Everybody, everywhere, wants to move here. For most people, life doesn't get any better than the way we live it here. It's like an exclusive birthday party trying to deal with crashers. And while the priveleged, wealthy, healthy, beautiful children of America (that's you guys) bitch and snivel about how tough life is; out in the dark, there are security forces patrolling the perimeter of the Estate, making sure that nobody disrupts the party and that preferably, the party guests never even realize that the security force even exists, or is doing it's job.
It's just ...magic. No mosquitoes? Some security guy set out bug zappers. No dog turds on the lawn? Hors d'oeuvre perfect in every way? Plenty of champagne? Democratic elections? Secure source of domestic energy? Affordable health care? Right to vote? Habeus corpus? They 're glad to be of service.

Meanwhile, out beyond the perimeter lights, are people who just flat out WANT YOUR BLOOD. They would just love to get an opportunity to ruin our little soiree'. Without the security forces keeping the monsters at bay, then you get to deal with them yourself. How do you like your chances? Frankly, I think the best America has are already on point. And without them to protect you, you'll be a fresh fish in the tank at San Quentin. Good luck, ingenues. Time to getcher game face on.

[freeze]

hey klypse - you just said that in order to solve this whole deal the countries ivolved need to sit down and talk to figure shit out...i couldn't control my laughter kid. this reminds me of when you're in an argument with your bitch, the shit isn't going to work. and need it be brought up again that these towel head mother fuckers have been "sitting down and talking" since the 1960's. if you can't get shit figured out in half a fucking century the shit isn't going to get figured out...and then to drag my country into it, fuck you i hope your whole god damned desert becomes my parking lot...and fuck you when you get pissed off that our misguided missiles hit your civilians...DO NOT FUCK WITH THE UNITED STATES CUZ YOU'RE ABOUT TO GET FUCKED WITH.

[freeze]

oh, ps. i think that america has it's game face on and that's what's pissing all of you little bitches off...you can't handle what a true game face entails. laters kids, go paint a wall and let the big boys take care of the shit that's going to allow you to continue to paint those walls without the threat of a suicide bomber fucking your shit up royally.

[Daddy_Screw]

Originally posted by Pistol
All countries please bomb the us constantly.
We won't do a thing.

But please stop after because it's not nice and we are all human beings.

peace.

anyone ever hear the theory the US did it (9-11) to themselves,~ some big insurance scam...
America's demise began a long time ago and has recently been getting worse with the downfall of major corporations like Enron.so its about to get rough.:)

[jah]

Originally posted by freeze
the only reason we stick our nose in other people's business is because if we don't mother fuckers start flying planes into our buildings because we didn't help them solve their little bitch ass problem...need i remind you that the united states mother fucking gave osama bin laden all the training and military knowledge that he has. fuck him and every other mother fucker for using it against us. if it weren't for the united states russia would've taken over all of afghanistan in 1979, so yeah, we take care of shit.

holy shit youre a stupid fuck! hahahahaha. the only reason the states backed afghanistan back then was because oil was crucial to the cold war and they didnt want russian pipes running through afghanistan. the US put the taliban in power because they didnt give a fuck about afghanistan as long as russia wasnt there. they still dont give much of a fuck about those terrorists. they just used that as an excuse to take over afghanistan and run pipes through and spread their so called democracy. do you know how many of those guys the states let go? they dont give a fuck about them. and the only reason the states got attacked was precisely because they stick their nose in other peoples business. caugh muslims caugh. palestine in particular. the US didnt give a fuck when the taliban was terrorising all the afghanistans and now they act like they give a shit. fuck republicans and fuck you.

[socrates]

It's really funny how little you kids know about what you are talking about. Do any of you have any training in the field of midddle east studies, no, but I do.Masters degree representing...All of this "terrorism" didn't start in the early ninties it started a lot earlier than that. also why is it called "terrorism", just because one wages their by filing a document with a congress and the other side just attcks either way it ends in dead people, in my belief the victims of WTC were casualties of war. That is all the knowledge I will drop on you fronow but I leave with this..Einstien did many great things in his life but the one thing that he always wanted to see was a ONE world government, what do yall 12ozer's think of that idea???

[Motha Fuka]

ill second that we are constantly in other ppls businesses man just look at the gulf and viet wars it was none of our business and before sept 11th all that goddamn peace shit in mid east

well anyway i think most of u are ignoring the real problem here and that is who really is behind sept 11th i know bin laden didnt do it and i think any american who can still use his half of a brain that is not saturated by beer and fast food will use that brain and figure out the picture that has been revealed to the public of the us i mean face it the real crisis here is that we are in a depression we dont know it yet but we are just wait a few years youll all see i mean the economy is plummiting the stock market is down do i have to speak further i guess i dont but i will now if u still have some more brain cells left over from lets talk about the whole sept 11th what about the goddamn pentagon what the fuck happend there im sure that if u were on this last yr u read the thread about the bomb well that got me convinced personally i know and not think know that the real problem here is oil that is why america is at war we cannot nuke afghanistan because of oil that is why this war is happening and that is why the whole wtc tragedy bullshit happend u may follow the rest of ur douche redneck buds and blame bin ladin for this but im telling u he is not behind this and though he runs a terrorist network he is not even close to being in the whole picture the real conspirators are well within this country the only reason bin ladin was framed here is because he tried to bomb wtc before but really kmon ppl how many of u think that bin ladin is behind this and if its more that the guy who started this thread i am really ashamed for my culture and my country

[imported_Klypse]

Originally posted by freeze
hey klypse - you just said that in order to solve this whole deal the countries ivolved need to sit down and talk to figure shit out...i couldn't control my laughter kid. this reminds me of when you're in an argument with your bitch, the shit isn't going to work. and need it be brought up again that these towel head mother fuckers have been "sitting down and talking" since the 1960's. if you can't get shit figured out in half a fucking century the shit isn't going to get figured out...and then to drag my country into it, fuck you i hope your whole god damned desert becomes my parking lot...and fuck you when you get pissed off that our misguided missiles hit your civilians...DO NOT FUCK WITH THE UNITED STATES CUZ YOU'RE ABOUT TO GET FUCKED WITH.
First off i said, sit and take a look. Its a fucking expression for open your fucking eyes you dickhead. I swear to god, if you had the sack enough to tell me your address, id go to the trailer park you stay at and slap some sense into you. Yous a statistic son. Go back to watchin Will & Grace you faggot. I cant believe you dont understand how damn stupid you are by what everybody else has said. WAR IS TERRORISM you dumb ass.

[imported_Klypse]

Kabar I thought you of all people would be open minded about this, and no diss man i respect your views and the thought behind it. But arent we are just playing the part of the bully, sure the bully is the strongest and everyone wants to be on his side cause he is powerful. But where does this shit end. America needs to grow the fuck up. We start shit and when people retalliate we fuck them up with our military strentgh. You keep boasting about how strong we are, and everyone wants to be on our side. Who the fuck cares about that shit, man, its not a popularity contest. The little guy is always going to rely slick underhand methods to fuck the bully over. Is the right thing to do? Is it the only thing to do? Its not like this shit happened overnight man, afghanistans public has been getting fucked in the ass for years.

[Daddy_Screw]

Originally posted by Klypse

Yous a statistic son. Go back to watchin Will & Grace you faggot. I cant believe you dont understand how damn stupid you are by what everybody else has said. WAR IS TERRORISM you dumb ass.

glad someone finally came out with it

[Agt. Adopus]

What a great example of brainwashed youth that were created post september 11'th. Who fail to reckognize that we kill tons over pure greed. In the past years we gave the taliban a million dollars to prosicute opeum farmers. What was that million dollers used for? It was used for TERRORISM. On Americans and on there own people. We did not care because our fanatical anti-drug obsession came first. Now September 11th happens and everyone fucking loves there capitalist government, ignorant white supremisists go out and kill Sehks because they look like muslims and now all of a sudden muslims are our enemys. We misguide bombs and terrorize more innocent people, but that is long forgotten because we are so kind to drop our capitalist food out of a fucking plane so no one really cares. We can give out capitialist clothing to kids so no one really fucking cares, but they are in the long run being fucked, by what started this. Greed... 5000 people died on September 11th, yet three times that die a week in Basra, Iraq because NATO misguides there neuclear waste which forms to be uranium, and that Uranium fucking kills kids. FUCK WORLD TRADE, FUCK THIS SICK FORM OF NATIONALIST PROPAGANDA, FUCK YOUR RIGHT WING POLITICS. Go jump of a building.

[Daddy_Screw]

[img]http://www.westwoodi.net/~smilies/contrib/ut1/redeemerwhore.gif'>

[jah]

if the US wasnt backing sharon, sharon wouldnt be invading palestine and puting muslims in camps and shit. muslims get pissed when someone fucks with their islamic nation. also, the US rallied up troops in iraq to rebel against hussein(sorry im im stoned and i cant spell) and then abandond them so people in the middle east really dont like the states very much. i still think bin laden should be shot by firing squad and anyone involved in terrorist bombings, but we still dont need to be doing shit to cause countries to hate us. we dont need oil and we would be better off without it. weve had the technology for clean energie sources for years but the oil companies bought hte rights to it and of course they dont want an alternative energy source until they milk all the money they can from fossil fules. and what family owns a shitload of oil? the bush family! and theyre fuckin stoked that they have control of afghanistan now and dont give a flying fuck about keeping the world safe. bush is fuckin evil, bin laden is evil. the united states fucks upa lot more peoples lives than the taliban. the only fuckin thing america and americans care about is money and wanting to always have the newest shit. and theyre willing to fuck over anyone to make sure they get it. half the population of the world is muslim. if all muslims joined together, the united states wouldnt win this war. i definitely think the states is better than a muslim dictatorship but theyre pretty fucked up to.

[freeze]

you know what, fuck you all. you're right, i live in a trailer park -- good call on that one dipshit :rolleyes: and again, you're right, i have no education whatsoever. you all may not agree with a damn thing i say and that's cool with me. you all attempt to live in your little world utopia that's never going to fucking exist. bottom line, the single most powerful man in the entire fucking universe, the president of the united states, agrees with my ass, so basically i don't give a shit what all yall think, what i believe should happen is happening, so fuck you i win. laters.

[imported_Klypse]

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!? no one said shit about a utopia, If its one thing we all agree on, its how fucked up the world is. How can you think that killing innocent people, bombing and pissing other countries off is going to make peace? Honestly man, if you know what you are talking about, i want to hear your opinion.

[Mr. Mang]

i think anyone who calls middle eastern people "towelheads" automatically loses my attention. how stupid are you?

BOMB ALL THE TOWELHEADS DUDE THEY'RE STUPID AND WORTHLESS LET'S PAVE THE MIDDLE EAST AND MAKE A BIG FOOTBALL FIELD!!!

[freeze]

klypse - i never said that bombing the fuck out of anyone was going to make peace...i'm just getting the impression that everyone else holds the opinion that if the US didn't retalliate after 9/11 or in any other situation for that matter, we would've never been attacked. personally i think that's a load of horse shit and believe that if anyone even thinks of fucking with the united states we should make an example out of them to show the world that you do not fuck with the united states. i just took everyone's "let's all agree to not bomb each other" opinion to be utopic, that's all.

and mr. mang - i'm not racist...never have been and never will be...unless you fuck with me or my country, then yes, i might get a little personal. i've got plenty of middle eastern friends from school and it's sort of a running joke that we've got going on to toss out the racial slurs every once in a while. i probably shouldn't have brought it up in here, sorry.

[shameless self promotion]

Originally posted by Mr. Mang

BOMB ALL THE TOWELHEADS DUDE THEY'RE STUPID AND WORTHLESS LET'S PAVE THE MIDDLE EAST AND MAKE A BIG FOOTBALL FIELD!!!


cool.:idea:

[Mr. Mang]

[img]http://www.washington.edu/alumni/columns/june98/stalin.jpg'>

we're not here lookin' for trouble
we're just here to do the soviet shuffle

[shameless self promotion]

[img]http://www.washington.edu/alumni/columns/june98/stalin.jpg'>

"Uhhhhhhh nuh nah nah naaaaaaaahh!! what what?!!"

[imported_Klypse]

its all good man, we all have thrown our fair share of racial slurs.

i'm just getting the impression that everyone else holds the opinion that if the US didn't retalliate after 9/11 or in any other situation for that matter, we would've never been attacked.

Im not saying that we shouldn't attack a country that fucks with us. what im saying is that we fueled this chaos, you understand what im talking about when I say fueled right?


personally i think that's a load of horse shit and believe that if anyone even thinks of fucking with the united states we should make an example out of them to show the world that you do not fuck with the united states.

Yes, but if other countrys have to abide by these rules to not fuck with the U.S., shouldnt the U.S. not fuck with any country either? If so then the the U.S. fucked up by starting this chain reaction by sticking its nose in others business for the sake of greed. Now doesn't this give the other nation the right to make an example out of the U.S.? Im not saying what they did is right, but these were the actions of a few. I as well as many others are not even sure that these terrorists were even acting on the behalf of afghanistan. Maybe they could have handled the situation differently and not killed thousands, but don't you agree that the U.S. was begging for some kind of attack. You have to understand we've been fucking these people, 10x more than they could have ever done to us, for decades.

i just took everyone's "let's all agree to not bomb each other" opinion to be utopic, that's all.
I agree this is not the answer, something has to be done for the thousands that died. But killing civillians and fucking the nation is not the answer. And believe it or not, we are taking so much advantage of this war, this is exactly what that oil tycoon Bush wants. But at the same time something has to be done for the thousands of deaths middle easterners suffer because of the U.S. form of terrorism (which is far worse, and has been going on for decades longer).
Im not saying lose all the faith in your country, but its hateful and ignorant thinking that plagues us all.
Damn I sound like some hippy nigga preaching world peace. Well anyway thats my outlook son, you are entitled to yours.

[jah]

there are definitely a few people out there that deserve a good lynching for 9-11, but the US isnt even putting that as their first priority. oil is still first. why are they going to be in afghanistan for way longer than they need to? no, not to get rid of some petty, third world thugs; to put in oil pipes so they can keep milking the earth for every penny they can scrounge and steal so they can have another couple trillion dollars because 10 trillion isnt quite enough to buy outer space. what the fuck! you guyes are preaching like the US is actually doing something heroic. theyre cleaning up a pest that they created and didnt give a shit about till they started bothering us. the taliban has been terrorizing long before 9-11 because of the US putting htem in power but they did nothing until they got attacked. boo fuckin hoo. its sad that all those people died! i am sincerely saddened by that. but what the fuck does the US expect? and the citizens of hte US all cry like bitches thinking they didnt do anything to the rest of the world and theyre so fuckin innocent. BULLSHIT!!!! youre all sitting their with the latest computer equipment and your new echo clothing because we live in a country drivin by comsumerism. people are dying across seas because people in the US find it too troubling to turn off the tv or a light or the sterio or the heater or walk down the street instead of driving a couple blocks or buy an SUV that gets 12 miles to the gallon and drive around by themsleves all day. get a fuckin clue you idiots! the rest of the world doesnt live this way. amercans are wasteful, greedy, lazy fucks who are draining the rest of the world so they dont have to change their inefficient lifestyles. we dont fuckin need fossil fuels. thousands, THOUSANDS of small pacific island countries (with their very own languages and cultures) are going to be under water in a matter of years, if theyre lucky, decades, because the US wont cut their CO2 levels which is very possible to do. sure, the huge oil, timber, car corporations would lose shitloads of money and maybe they would have to settle for only having ten vacations homes throughout the country and 6 personal yachts instead of 15, but millions of peoples lives would change for hte better. oh well though, its too hard to turn off a light or walk or ride a bike. fuck your pathetic whiny ass and fuck all the rest of you stupid cocksuckin americans who are so fuckin helpless and bitchy and rediculously lazy and excessive/exhorbitant. SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!! you dont want to be bombed? get involved in helping other people instead of just worrying about having a PS2 god damnit!!!!

[Esai]

i was truly saddened to see how 911 did not open americas eyes to the fucked up shit.I mean I know the media's propaganda machine was bookin overtime but fuck, Id think people would be so deeply affected that they would study up on the state of the world(not the disney one on nbc).But sadly it made a country full of brainwashed morons.Im finally glad the pussy ass liberals came out of their hiding places lately to attempt to enlighten everyone else in our country but I sadly feel it is too late. Its amazing how people in this board can understand extremely complicated logistics of a marker or graffiti but cant understand basic truths, like if the US keeps fucking people over(politicians,not you and me) theylbreed resent and start fucking us back. I find it weird to argue with an intelligent person who obviously well read,but cant decipher basic truths in our world. I used to fuck around at a site called deadarab.com to clown those hicks and it was amazin how conservatives will dodge and mutate your words to escape obvious realities once shit is broken down. Like thinkin that if you criticize the US's actions youre somehow dissing the victims of 911.What is really dissing the victims is the way our leaders are behaving and using this atrocity to further their own personal agendas and financiers.

[Mr. Mang]

makes me glad to see some people out there still have some sense. interesting points.

[jah]

i hear you. people are seriously too worried about superficial things to even put the effort into finding out whats going on. if they take the time to read up on things theyll miss the party. or they act like the world would end if red meat wasnt available. stupid shit. eating meat is destroying our world and our health. i dont care what any of those carnivorous redneck fucks try and say about people who arent for eating red meat. theyre fuckin morons. i used to eat red meat all the time until about a year ago. not because i dont like it and not because im worried about my health in the least. because the beef industry is one of hte biggest fuckin rapists of this world besides big oil and timber. did you know it takes 70,000 gallons of water and 200 sq ft of land to produce 1 (yes one) lb (no, not a cow. one pound) of beef. and cows pollute likea motherfucker! i just wont buy the shit anymore. ill eat it once in a while if im at a bbq or on a long trip and theres nothing really to eat except it for a long time. but other than that, red meats a no no for me and should be fore everyone else. having these views has nothing to do with being liberal; it has to do with being educated. ive talked to plenty of concervative right wing people who know their shit too. of course they have some fucked ideas too but they still know what time it is for the most part. especially in other countries besides the US. seriously, picture america if all of the sudden beef wasnt available. people would go crazy. tons of countries throughout the world do fine without red meat and a lot of other things. americans flip about things they dont even need. they think if they cant get what they WANT the worlds going to end. theyre fuckin brats. spoiled, ignorant, lazy, whiny, greedy, wasteful brats. fuck em. live and learn. if htey think they can kill off the rest of the world to keep satisfying their desires at the expense of billiions, fuck em. theyre going to get whats coming to them. and i feel sorry for them because they dont even know why its happening. pathetic!

[kissmyass#1]

[img]http://www.dailywonklists.com/images/ScaredOsama.jpg'>

[KaBar]

The United States isn't doing anything to harm anyone, other than to continue to attempt to preserve the lifestyle that we prefer, and to preserve the lifestyle that EVERYBODY ELSE ON EARTH ENVIES AND DESIRES. If anybody needs to catch a clue, it's the hundreds of thousands of people who get all upset and accusing at the U.S., and have NEVER been overseas to see how absolutely, completely FUCKED UP the rest of the world is. WE DON'T OWE THEM A GODDAMNED THING. If the situation in their country is so bad, let them stay right there in Bangladesh or Somalia or IRAQ and improve it. What? They're too poor and too ignorant to improve it? But that's our fault, right? Bullshit, I'm not buying that. If the rest of the world is so concerned about pollution and the environment, let's see what they are doing about it. Answer: Not a fucking thing. I've been to Japan---they slaughter whales for sushi and pump human shit STRAIGHT INTO THE OCEAN, not a mile from public beaches. I've been to Europe--their rivers are among the most polluted on earth. The pollution in their cities is every bit as bad as in the U.S. I've been to the Phillipine Islands. Kids run the streets covered in dirt, nobody has any interest in birth control, you can buy any drug known to man in every bar in Olongapo, and 14-year-olds are being pimped out by their own families.
In Fiji, native Fijians throw EVERYTHING on the ground as soon as they finish eating it, drinking it, smoking it, whatever. They are absolutely without any social conscience. Drunkeness and domestic violence and brutality are a way of life. The kids cut school, the teachers seem like they could not care less, and the cops are the biggest crooks in town. It's like Hell, only with 100% humidity and 100 degree heat, and palm trees.

I don't buy this "Americans are the cause of all the world's problems because we are so lazy and greedy" shit for one SECOND. This is absolutely the greatest place on earth I've ever found to live. Anybody that doesn't love our country is sure welcome to live elsewhere. EVERYBODY arrives here with their hand out. But we are the ones that are so bad , right? BULLSHIT. Don't like it here? Well what's keeping you here? We live in a "global village" right? Feel free to enjoy the blessings of liberty in some place more suited to your tastes, fellas. According to you guys, we suck SO BAD that everybody else must be better than us, right? Good luck, and God speed. But you know what? "You'll be back." And with a new attitude, too.

P.S. Don't get caught tagging in Singapore--they will beat your ass bloody with a cane for "malicious mischief." Spit on the ground--you'll get a $300 fine. Chew chewing gum in public? Another $300. Get sick in China? Your family has to pay for clean water, and provide you with around-the-clock nursing care. No family? Gee, you're fucked. Have a good vacation.

[T.T Boy]

Kabar> not everyone wants YOUR way of life. YOU think its the best, but not everyone does, they dont want to lay on a couch with a magnum 44, some busch light and a bag of potato chips and watch the rams play the stars. your way of life isnt what everyone wants.

[Dr. Dazzle]

^^^^
Are they barbecue chips??

[Smart]

Originally posted by T.T Boy
Kabar> not everyone wants YOUR way of life. YOU think its the best, but not everyone does, they dont want to lay on a couch with a magnum 44, some busch light and a bag of potato chips and watch the rams play the stars. your way of life isnt what everyone wants.

I think Ka-Bar's point is, in America, you don't have to want his way of life, you can have any way of life you choose... it is this freedom of choice that makes is different from 90% of the world... it's also this freedom the soldiers are out there fighting to protect...

[KaBar]

You're right, and I'm not asking them too. But here in THIS country, I have a right to live HOWEVER I PLEASE. If I wanted to go live in West Palm Beach and suck dick all day, I could. If I wanted to be an opera singer, and live in New York City, I could. If I wanted to live out in West Texas and herd cows around all day, or work on oil derricks or own a strip club, or open a ashram, I COULD. Can you say that about anywhere else on earth? NO. You can't. I've been there. I didn't like it. But feel free to go check it out and send back your opinion. Believe me, their way of life will shock and disappoint you. You think the U.S.. is so bad? Bullshit. This is Paradise. You just can't see it.

(Thanks, Smart, you got one off before I could reply.)

[Canadiano]

KB's first comment...
I guess I shouldn't be typing this, but that is a completely ignorant view, it seems. I suppose you talk not of the typical Etats-Unis stereotypical citizen. I see someone who won't clean up after themselves in the park. I picture someone who is too ignorant to realize how different subspecies work together to prove that this planet is a living organism, not an orb that consists of nations/boundaries that are completely free of one another. No offense, I guess I didn't read what you wrote well enough, but I felt a sense of a "don't look at me" mentality all over it. We should ALL look at ourselves. Canadian, Brasili, American, Indian, Japanese, whatever. Yes, I love to make fun of those boys who hate on the states 'cuz it's fun and easy. The states is a great nest of capitalism where it thrives. Unfortunately, it is a perfect example of a place where simple minded humans band together in a fight for nothing but money. Geez, my argument for no cause means nothing....shit. Oh yeah - I ain't gonna start shit, but the Americans are responsible for creating a lot of third world nations purposefully.

[Canadiano]

(before anyone else could, hopefully) - Canada has a much higher standard, honestly. No amount of flag waving will sway my opinion.

[Dr. Dazzle]

Originally posted by KaBar
You're right, and I'm not asking them too. But here in THIS country, I have a right to live HOWEVER I PLEASE. If I wanted to go live in West Palm Beach and suck dick all day, I could. If I wanted to be an opera singer, and live in New York City, I could. If I wanted to live out in West Texas and herd cows around all day, or work on oil derricks or own a strip club, or open a ashram, I COULD. Can you say that about anywhere else on earth? NO. You can't

Canada, Great Britain, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Italy, Germany, France, Belgium, Holland, Spain, New Zealand, South Africa, Portugal, Japan, South Korea, Austria, Switzerland, Greece....shall I go on??

[Smart]

South Africa?

[Canadiano]

Originally posted by Dr. Dazzle


Canada, Great Britain, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Italy, Germany, France, Belgium, Holland, Spain, New Zealand, South Africa, Portugal, Japan, South Korea, Austria, Switzerland, Greece....shall I go on??

biggups!

[Pistol]

this shit is still going on. if all you conspiricy theorists, blame America kids were around before we'd all be speaking German right now.

[Canadiano]

Originally posted by Pistol
this shit is still going on. if all you conspiricy theorists, blame America kids were around before we'd all be speaking German right now.

you weren't the only ones fighting. You came in late, and you seem to have a blind hatred towards the Krauts. Relatively (and I emphasize 'relative'), the Nazis were being noble. Sure, Eisenhower was supreme commander or whatever of the invasion, but don't you dare think that it was just the americans. You can extract as much information as you want from such sources as "Pearl Harbour", but the "war" was going on before that attack in 1941.

[Dr. Dazzle]

Originally posted by Smart
South Africa?

South Africa is probably the mos stable country in Africa. It's a lot like the US, really, where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer....

Maybe Egypt is the most stable, add them to the list.....

[T.T Boy]

Originally posted by KaBar
You're right, and I'm not asking them too. But here in THIS country, I have a right to live HOWEVER I PLEASE. If I wanted to go live in West Palm Beach and suck dick all day, I could. If I wanted to be an opera singer, and live in New York City, I could. If I wanted to live out in West Texas and herd cows around all day, or work on oil derricks or own a strip club, or open a ashram, I COULD. Can you say that about anywhere else on earth? NO. You can't. I've been there. I didn't like it. But feel free to go check it out and send back your opinion. Believe me, their way of life will shock and disappoint you. You think the U.S.. is so bad? Bullshit. This is Paradise. You just can't see it.

(Thanks, Smart, you got one off before I could reply.)

first off, im canadian.
i agree with the whole you can do what you want there, but really, there are plenty of countries where that is possible. im just disgruntled at the americanization of so many countries, i mean you can go to mcdonalds in europe, who the fuck would do that? im just sick of seeing a new dennys on the corner, when the mom and pop restaraunt that cooks the best food youll ever eat goes under because of a fucking mcdonalds. alot of people dont want the american way of life in their country, they like their culture and they dont want to become american. i just think that all the corporations should stay in america, theyve got enough fat slobs to make them wealthier so why cant they leave the rest of the world alone. i can tell you one thing, when im off seeing the world, i sure as fuck wont be shopping at kmart and eating at the mcdonalds in spain.

[Dr. Dazzle]

Originally posted by Pistol
this shit is still going on. if all you conspiricy theorists, blame America kids were around before we'd all be speaking German right now.

If the Japanese hadn't bombed you you'd have just sat back and watch the rest of the world get their ass kicked.......

[Smart]

Originally posted by Canadiano
Relatively (and I emphasize 'relative'), the Nazis were being noble.

uh, are you trying to say the Americans are worse than Nazis? Relative to WHAT? See, there's a fundamental duality inherent in comparison...

[Pistol]

Originally posted by Canadiano


you weren't the only ones fighting. You came in late, and you seem to have a blind hatred towards the Krauts. Relatively (and I emphasize 'relative'), the Nazis were being noble. Sure, Eisenhower was supreme commander or whatever of the invasion, but don't you dare think that it was just the americans. You can extract as much information as you want from such sources as "Pearl Harbour", but the "war" was going on before that attack in 1941.

you fucking moron.it was a light hearted statement. I hate Germans? please. By Germans I was speaking on the sieg heil hitler kill all jews Germans. Without US intervention I seriously doubt the allies would have won the war at least not that soon.

[Smart]

Originally posted by Dr. Dazzle


South Africa is probably the mos stable country in Africa. It's a lot like the US, really, where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer....

Maybe Egypt is the most stable, add them to the list.....

Yeah, SOuth Africa is so stable that they have a car on the market that will shoot 4 foot flames out the sides to repell throngs of would be car jackers... and it's not about 'stability' it's about 'opportunity'...

[Canadiano]

Originally posted by Smart


uh, are you trying to say the Americans are worse than Nazis? Relative to WHAT? See, there's a fundamental duality inherent in comparison...

Sorry, but I'm not the most superb linguist. I suppose instead of a reference to relativism, I should rather say subjectively. Does that make more sense? I mean that the Germans believe they were doing the right thing.

[Pistol]

Originally posted by Dr. Dazzle


If the Japanese hadn't bombed you you'd have just sat back and watch the rest of the world get their ass kicked.......

It's either we didn't do anything till we got bombed or were always getting into shit that doesent concern the US. your damned if you do damned if you don't.

The Crips are a pretty stable gang in comparison to Bloods and other street gangs, except for maybe the Mexican Mafia.

[Canadiano]

Originally posted by Pistol


you fucking moron.it was a light hearted statement. I hate Germans? please. By Germans I was speaking on the sieg heil hitler kill all jews Germans. Without US intervention I seriously doubt the allies would have won the war at least not that soon.

sorry. agreed, though. The Americans were incredibly vital to our victory. them airbornes, and them rangers, and certainly them hollywooders who helped create those big, dummy airfields (paper mache, anyone?) on the Southern tip of England.


I've heard all these theories from cats who are younger than me, even, that throw out that theory that if only the war went more for the Krauts, then the Americans wouldn't be as much of a detrimental powerhouse. Smart: detrimental as in detrimental - ain't no duality in that.

[Dr. Dazzle]

Originally posted by Smart


Yeah, SOuth Africa is so stable that they have a car on the market that will shoot 4 foot flames out the sides to repell throngs of would be car jackers... and it's not about 'stability' it's about 'opportunity'...

As far as Africa goes, it's pretty civilized. We all know how fucked up that continent is. But please don't try and put it across that the US doesn't have problems like this. You'd most likely have the same device on the market if most of you didn't have common sense......

As far as opportunity, it's just like the US. If you're rich, it's a great place to be, endless opportunities for the wealthy. But if you don't have the money, you're fucked. Just like anywhere else in westernized culture.....

[Canadiano]

Originally posted by Pistol


It's either we didn't do anything till we got bombed or were always getting into shit that doesent concern the US.


uhhh...what?

[KaBar]

Canadiano----I'm just going to assume you've lived here, and say "Okay, you have a right to your opinion." But you know what? We have a bunch of Canadians working at the hospital where I work. Nobody made them come here. We needed their skills and we offered them going American wages and they said "Yes." They could have stayed in Canada, but the socialized medical system there doesn't pay a living wage. So they said, "I guess I'll go to Texas to work," and here they are. Are they grubbing for a buck, because they'd rather be here in the Belly of the Beast than at home in Canada, working their asses off for less than half the money? And shoveling snow?

The U.S. is everybody's sugar daddy. Everybody hates us, because everybody wants us to come unfuck their problems. I think we should simply let everybody solve their OWN problems. We helped the Afghan rebels when NOBODY ELSE WOULD GIVE THEM A DAMN THING. They shot down Russian M-24 Hind D's with AMERICAN surface-to-air rockets. We supplied them with ton after ton of 7.62x39mm rifle cartridges and 7.62x54R machinegun ammunition, FREE OF CHARGE. After their war against the Soviets (those paragons of virtue) was over, and the mighty Russian Communist Army dragged their whipped-dog asses back across the one remaining bridge to Uzbekistan, we provided them with money for relief, with money for mine sweeping teams trained by the sorry ass U.N. (where were they when the Communists were raping, murdering and torturing thousands of Afghans, stealing their children and destroying their culture? Answer: NO FUCKING WHERE TO BE FOUND.) We didn't start the war between the Afghans and the Soviets. We just helped the Afghans with logistics. Would it have been better to allow the Communists to remain in power? Sorry. I don't think so. The Afghans were brave, but at the end of the day, every little guerrilla leader wanted to be Boss. Nobody wanted to share. Everybody wanted to be rich and control their own little province. Is that the fault of the U.S.? NO, it's not. The Taliban arose to fill the power vacuum. We could have stopped it, but who is to say they were worse than a nation of warlords? Until the Taliban and al-Qaida crashed airplanes into the WTC, we left them to their own devices. Basically, their domestic problems were considered to be Afghan business. Well, that didn't work too well. So now, the U.S. is hip deep in Afghanistan. The same country that the Soviets couldn't take in what, ten years? We took Afghanistan in a matter of weeks. Are we dominating their government? Nope. We helped them PAY for it, of course (hell, we're great at paying for other people's problems) but they are free to choose whatever government they wish. It's not a constitutional republic, but at least it's not Communist, and it's not the Taliban.

How many millions have we sent for war casualties and girl's schools, and water wells and God knows what else? Millions. Maybe billions.

But we're the bad guys , right? I do not agree. Not at all. We are EVERYBODY'S SUGAR DADDY. And it's time we got out of the sugar daddy business.

And as far as the Americanization of the world goes, if "the world" doesn't want to eat American hamburgers, let them vote with their pocketbook. Some Frenchman wants to open a McDonalds in Paris. He buys a franchise from McDonalds Worldwide Demonic Hamburger Corporation, and they send out Shitty Fatty Food Police in the streets of Paris to herd unwilling French persons into the Golden Arches at bayonet point, is that how it works? People eat what they eat because that's what they want. Who are you to tell the peasants in Turkistan that greasy ass American french fries are bad for their cultural autonomy? If they prefer goat's milk and fried ants or whatever, the McDonald's will be a tofu shop in 90 days.
Furthermore, you can buy an authenic ethnic meal from EVERY GOD DAMNED NATION ON EARTH right here in uncouth, hate-filled, fat body Houston. You can buy Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Pakistani, Middle Eastern halal meat and genuine no-shit Muslim groceries from every Muslim nation there is. You can buy Indonesian food, African food, Caribbean food, Brazilian cuisine, and on and on. What about OUR cultural autonomy? Never saw a Canadian restaurant, sorry. But if there was a genuine Canadian cuisine, some guy from Ottawa would be down here building a Canadian restaurant in a strip mall. On that note, what's the deal with putting tomato juice in perfectly good beer, anyway? And why does Canada have a segregated section in bars for single women? What's that all about? And why can't I move my own beer from table to table? I almost got arrested for "walking with a beer." Don't tell me that the U.S. is the only place with wierd-ass cultural behavior. That's the pot calling the kettle black.

[Dr. Dazzle]

Originally posted by KaBar
How many millions have we sent for war casualties and girl's schools, and water wells and God knows what else? Millions. Maybe billions.

How many of those were as a result of your involvement??

[T.T Boy]

so your saying we should shut off the ellectricity that we supply to the east coast of the us?

[Dr. Dazzle]

Originally posted by T.T Boy
so your saying we should shut off the ellectricity that we supply to the east coast of the us?

Don't forget the lumber and water we provide for rediculously low prices....

[Smart]

Originally posted by Dr. Dazzle


How many of those were as a result of your involvement??

huh?

[Pistol]

Originally posted by T.T Boy
so your saying we should shut off the ellectricity that we supply to the east coast of the us?

only if you want to piss off us crazy American war mongers. prepare to die.
;)

[Canadiano]

Hey, Kabar, I'm not one of those America hating conspiracy theorists that Pistol had aforementioned. And as far as those nurses, you're right. I recall a whole lot of news coverage here regarding our nurses going south to Texas to work. That says that Texas was lacking medical workers of that respect, and that our Premier, Mike Harris was fucking around. See, in Canada, it ain't all national, it's provincial as well, and somehow Mike Harris (believe me, tons of people HATE him here) tooled around large with our health care and education system. you could say that he is a direct product/stem from Brian Molruney. Moruney is America's boy. He was the CEO of Power Corporation, a huge conglomerate, that went on to become our prime minister. He and his conservative party fucked us up. The only positive? I see that our people understand our mistakes (in large part), and are willing to learn,l even if it is the hard way. Nonetheless, our democratic nation is voting in people like this all the time. Premier Campbell, for instance, lifted a moratorium on the great grizzle bear. On the cover of National Post, a very right wing Toronto newspaper, there was a picture of an Oklahoman who was holding up a dead muskox, bragging about how the license had cost him only fifty thousand dollars. That's a little off topic, and I apologize for not paragraphing my replies. i drank a lot of bourbon and vodka today, though;) .

[Smart]

Originally posted by Dr. Dazzle


Don't forget the lumber and water we provide for rediculously low prices....

raise the prices, hell, your currency is nearly as weak as the Peso, what''l it run us? An extra $15 a month or something?

[Canadiano]

Originally posted by Dr. Dazzle


Don't forget the lumber and water we provide for rediculously low prices....

ah yes, corporate armtwisting. The US protectionists seem to do a far better job than ours do....politics, anyone? beaurecrats (sp) everywhere tend to suck.

[Dr. Dazzle]

Originally posted by Smart


raise the prices, hell, your currency is nearly as weak as the Peso, what''l it run us? An extra $15 a month or something?

I agree, but Canada is America's bitch, you're like the older brother that we're scared to stand up to because you work out and drink beer.....

[Smart]

Originally posted by Dr. Dazzle


I agree, but Canada is America's bitch, you're like the older brother that we're scared to stand up to because you work out and drink beer.....

well, quit being such a pain in the ass and go get me another beer from the fridge... and bring it to me closed, I don't want your gay ass to spit in it...

[Canadiano]

Originally posted by Dr. Dazzle


I agree, but Canada is America's bitch, you're like the older brother that we're scared to stand up to because you work out and drink beer.....

Please disregard Daz's comment...no offense, Doc, but that ain't cool.

[Dr. Dazzle]

Sorry man but it's true. They just stroll in here and say they need electricity, and water, and lumber, and oil, blah blah blah....and we let them. A perfect opportunity to extort them for millions and we don't take it......

[Esai]

I find this thread irresistable. kabar, have you read a lot about colonial history man? There is a plethora of books that chronicle how Western Europe(and now the Us too) pretty much fucked up most of the world.Now I can see the whole"that was a long time ago" theory if not for the fact that there has been no compensation for the serious damage inflicted on these peoples, or that many of these places are still kept in a state of artificial poverty by it's corrupt rulers(whom are payed off by the Us and US companies to keep it that way.I can list a few countries if youd like, indonesia,ecuador,haiti,botswana,etc.They keep these places impoverished so that there is cheap labor and rescources to extract at maximum profit.This is wrong. Im sure any one of you guys would be hating america if you were stuck in Vietnam workin for a nickel a day for a multibillion dollar companyfrom america. Youve also been misinformed of the US' role in many latin american countries. it was sad for me to read about the government I pay taxes to disrupting emerging postcolonial peoples' govts to dictatorships in the name of corporate greed,that sickens me bro.Now I dont know how many books youve read abot central America, but ask any salvadorian or guatamalan immagrant what brought them here and they usually have 2 reasons, economic oportunity(because of artificial poverty) or political instability caused by the US(to quote many).People with the whole "the US cant fix everyone" ideal need to think a lil harder.Were thse people just lying on ythe floor eating dirt till the US came along and saved them,no. There were many beautiful civilizations almost obliterated cuz of greedy politicians and businessmen. Like you said for example samoa.A beautiful people and country that was virtually destroyed by US imperialist greed after the spanish war around 1900.It was exploited for its rescources and goods,and then a lot of the islands were bombed for tests, isnt that a little fucked up?If people are trashin their land its for the same reason that reservations have high suicide,and substance abuse rates, If you take a peoples dignity and culture away they begin to destroy themselves,I feel this is somewhat true for many peoples in the US(blacks,chicanos).I agree with personal accountability, but if you cut of someone's legs you cant expect them to be a track star.

[Canadiano]

Well said, Esai.

By the by, I recall an article in National Geographic a year or so back talking about a new system of real estate in Samoa. Pretty much, there was quite a bit of leniency with the Samoans as far as real estate. Fuck, I wish I could remember...:sparking up next one papes:

[KaBar]

A lot of Americans violated American law in 1939, and immigrated to Canada to join the Royal Canadian Air Force, because they knew that they could volunteer to go to Great Britain to fight the Nazis. True, many of them were Communists, but nevertheless, even economically challenged Americans are still Americans.

A bunch of Americans volunteered earlier than that to fight in Spain, in the Spanish Civil War in 1936. I knew some old Wobblies here in Houston that had an old buddy who had fought in WWI as a machinegunner. He went to Spain with the International Brigade (90% Communists) to train Spanish republicans how to shoot machineguns. He got killed in combat.

It's all about whose ox is being gored. One man's Communist mercenary criminal is another man's Communist anti-fascist hero. If your side loses, you are screwed. BTW, the French Resistance, especially in the French Pyrenees mountains, was made up largely of Spanish anarchist refugees who had fled the collapse of the republican government in Spain, and were living in France as displaced war refugees, hunted by Franco's fascist government. France would not deport them. There were a few that continued to attack Spanish governmental offices, post offices, customs posts, etc., well into the 1950's, because to them, a fascist in 1936, is a fascist in 1944, is a fascist in 1955. Most of them were either killed in gunbattles, captured and executed by Franco's carabieneri, or retired and were living in France back in the 70's.

[Canadiano]

Originally posted by KaBar
There were a few that continued to attack Spanish governmental offices, post offices, customs posts, etc., well into the 1950's, because to them, a fascist in 1936, is a fascist in 1944, is a fascist in 1955. Most of them were either killed in gunbattles, captured and executed by Franco's carabieneri, or retired and were living in France back in the 70's.

see, I need to figure out that thinking pattern.


To do that, I must read, so i will go and do that now. Or in a few minutes, maybe.

[Brownbread?]

Terrorism... I hope the US doesn't get all Rambo in the Middle East. Sure our military can defeat pretty much any country that rages war against us but terrorists aren't countries. They're small groups and that makes them even deadlier. And as diverse as our population is it would be hard to spot who your enemy is if we were to get into some war on US soil. Look at Isreal, they could hold their own against countries 10 times their size but its the random attacks by a hand full of people that has them upside down.

America...I really dont understand how the world views America. Its like a love/hate relationship. I always hear people talk about how they hate America so much but yet they eat up American culture like hot wings.
With all of the stuff that America has done or trys to do, i think it's a country too complicated to hate or even love.

[jah]

kabar, most of the posts ive read of yours in the past ive agreed with for the most part. but sorry man, youre a little too caught up in all the american hype. first of all id like to say that i did leave america and havent been back in a year. do i hate america? no. do i hate the majority of the american public? yes. do i hate the american government? FUCK YES!! youre living in a dream world if you think america doesnt greatly contribute to the problems of hte world (more than any other country by far.) like i mentioned before. the US is responsible for something like 40 % (maybe 60 i cant remeber right now, but at least 40) of the pollution in the world. thats a big fuckin percentage for how big we are. thousands of pacific island countries are going to be under water. literally wiped out because of global warming that the united states is causing. the worst thing about it is that we could prevent it from happening by using hte technology we have for alternative energy sources(solar, hydro, HEMP!!) to cut co2 levels and reverse the process but we dont give a fuck! fuck that! i lived in hawaii for two years and thas a part of hte untied states and thats going to be greatly affected by global warming. the middle east is in utter chaos because of the struggle for oil. you think the american lifestyle is glorious? think again. americans are wasteful, greedy, and inconsiderate. you dont think its wasteful to drive a v12 SUV by yourself to go down the street to the supermarket? everything in america is prepackaged. do you realize how much waste that causes? and how much pollution it causes to make all that packaging. tell the people in the middle east that america doesnt cause other countries problems. i didnt say america is the only country with problems. theyre just the one causing the most. even china with its billion point two people dont put off as much pollution as the united states. and we go in and bomb iraq because theyre making weapons? what the fuck is that??!!?!?!? why the fuck are we allowed to sit over here and make as many god damn nukes as we please but other countries cant do the same to defend themselves (maybe because we dont want them to be able to defend themselves)? this country isnt about equal rights, its not about democracy, its not about freedom! its about money and power! period. i love parts of hte united states and itll always be my home. but fuck the united states. theyre going to get whats coming to them if htey dont start treating other cultures with some respect and stop thinking they can do whatever the fuck they want. half (approx. 3.5 bil) the worlds population is muslim. i know americans have big fuckin egos and think theyre indestructible, but mark my words, they cannot take on the world. i have been travelling the world lately and its amazing how beautiful and civilized other countries in the world are. who gives a shit if you get beat down for spray painting in singapore? dont paint. dont spit all over the place. have some fuckin respect for other peoples shit. i know other countries are corrupt. take thailand for example. their gov is mad corrupt but the people and the culture are some of the most respectful, down to earth ones inthe world. the american lifestyle is wasteful and unhealthy. why do you think theres such a huge obesity problem? speaking of obesity problems, the rest of the world is starting to get hit with this because of the globalization (mcdonaldization) that the US government so proudly supports. all the shitty fast food joints are poisoning hte rest of hte world now. if the US wants to fuck itself up and eat up all their natural resources, fine. thats the choice the dumbfucks of our country get to make. but they dont have the right to trample on everyone else.

[Canadiano]

^^ word! It's all about equating environmental degradation with terrorism. Great points!

[KaBar]

Brother, you decided to move to another country 'cause you didn't like the U.S.? That's great, more power to ya. I hope you enjoy life wherever it is that you are, forever. As for people working for a nickle a day in some American tennis shoe factory in Vietnam--the Vietnamese are perfectly capable of manufacturing their own tennis shoes, and then they can sell them for how ever much they please. People who hate and despise Nike or Adidas can then buy Mai Truong brand tennis shoes, and be happy. Should Nike pay "a living wage" to Vietnamese tennis shoe workers? Yeah, they should. What's to stop French tennis shoe manufacturers, Chinese tennis shoe manufacturers, Pakistani tennis shoe manufacturers all from moving their plants to Vietnam and paying the workers $12 a hour? Answer: The going rate is $0.05 and hour, and they'd be crazy to pay $12 an hour. But they sure could afford to pay more. Let's say the average daily wage in Vietnam is $5 a day. Nike comes in, pays $10 a day. Immediately everybody else jacks up their prices, because they WANT THAT FUCKING MONEY. From their point of view, those tennis shoe workers aren't doing anything to deserve a 200% increase in pay. So if you want a bowl of fish heads and rice, and you work for Nike, the price is double. Renting an apartment? The rent just doubled. Buying clothes, hiring day care? The price just doubled.

Americans are not the only people in the earth that are hard-bitten capitalists, we are just the most successful. Your fixation that the U.S. is the source of all the world's misfortune is completely misplaced. The Vietnamese tennis shoe workers are grateful for a decent job. Could Nike afford to be more humane about the way they run their business? Yeah, they could. Will they? Probably not. What can the Vietnamese do about their plight? For one thing, they can just ignore Nike, refuse to work for the wages offered, and go back to the family rice farm, where he joy of farming organically using human shit, and wading through it eight hours a day cultivating rice by hand will certainly bolster their resolve in refusing to be exploited economically by cruel American tennis shoe magnates.

Or they can do what every body else on earth is trying to do--immigrate to the United States, so instead of being a pediatric surgeon in India or a structural engineer in Sri Lanka, they can open a convenience store in a black American slum, and make 100 times as much money. But then, of course, the black Americans buying their food and whatnot at the store will be furious that a bunch of foreigners have the unmitigated insensitivity to open a store in their neighborhood and be successful at it. Here in Houston, we have had six or eight convenience store owners from India and Pakistan shot to death by armed robbers or armed shoplifters when they attempted to stop them from robbing them.

Quite frankly, I don't get it. The United States is 100% capable of closing it's goddam borders and saying "FUCK YOU" to the rest of the world. But you know what? No matter what we do, all these whiners will not be satisfied. I have a message for everybody, everywhere. TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN GODDAMN PROBLEMS AND DON'T BITCH TO US. But they won't do that, because they CAN'T do that. And it is not our fault, it is the fault of each individual person who fails to do what is necessary to take care of their own problems. This idea that one is helpless in the face of life's slings and arrows is totally not true. The idea that the United States is out in the world deliberately screwing people up is also not true. All the sniveling comes from people who can't figure out a way to get on the gravy train.

Example: The Phillipines kicked the U.S. military bases off their island. They crowed in victory and talked all kinds of shit about American imperialism, yadda, yadda, yadda. WITHIN A YEAR, they were begging us to come back and spend our money there. "Come back, you can train in our jungles! Come back, you can dock your ships wherever you want!" And guess what? STUPID ASS UNCLE SAM IS BACK THERE, HELPING THEM HUNT TERRORISTS. We should have told them, "No thanks, you already dissed us, so get fucked." What happened to the multi-billion dollar military bases we built there? They were turned over to the Phillipine government, and rich Filipinos turned them all into sweatshops for their brother Filipinos, at a fraction of the wages the U.S. government was paying.

Same goes for those ungrateful pricks on Okinawa. The U.S. could have killed everybody ON that island in 1945. But no, we were mericiful and humane, even though the Japanese killed 10,000 American Marines as we invaded. Now we are paying for our generosity, with unending bitching and complaining and demonstrations by the Okinawans. Hell, we could have solved this whole problem by killing them all. They deserved it. But as usual, the Americans let them play us. Ungrateful fuckers. UNCLE SUGAR NEVER LEARNS.

[jah]

i see where youre coming from with this and i shared some of your views a year or two ago but ive realized since then that it doesnt matter whether nike is paying better wages than working in a rice patty, theyre still inhumane, child exploiting pricks who have no compassion for other humans. like i said before there are plenty of other corrupt governments in the world. the US just likes playing htem for everything they can, and in return, they get to send some people over to the states. its a two way street. why does america have so many immigrants you ask? cheap labor! even in the states all these people coming in from other countries get some shitty job that pays squat (true its way more than they would make in their country but its barely enough to live decently in the US) but they still fuel the economy. the government doesnt give a flying fuck how many immigrants we have. theyll let htem in until the states is packed to the brim so they can keep the whitehouse stocked with maids and servants. you act like the US has nothing to do with these corruptions around the world but by merely supporting it they have a part in it. tell me about the elections in colombia and other south american countries(not to mention the elections right there at home. i guess everyones already forgotten about those and the enron scandle since theyre too busy playing super hero). are you going to try and tell me the US doesnt play a big part in those. what abou the war on drugs? hows that working down in texas. because it sure as fuck doesnt work anywhere else in the country. its another money maker. they make so much fuckin money from prisons (not to mention selling drugs) these days they dont give a fuck about lockin up petty criminals with some burly ass killers. if the US just had an influence on themslelves it would be fine. they want the world. what do you think george bush is really talking about when he says "gobalization"? free trade? maybe(unless of course youre a communist country like cuba. communist countries are ona differnt globe). but you know damn well that it means mcdonalds and caltex stations in every city of every country in the world. it means the world will be one big fast food eating, big car driving, tv watching consumers. they are pushing all their bullshit onto everyone else.
what do you think about the co2 levels i mentioned? you didnt even mention that. that was fact. that was on national geographic and its damn believable. huge polar ice blocks are already melting at scary rates and raising hte level of the sea. in a matter of years whole countries are going to be swallowed up because of our wastefulness and youre still talking about us doing nothing. go visit one of those islands and interact with the people and then tell them that their country is going to be washed away before their kids are in high school and its touch luck because america needs prepackaged food. NEEDS THE SHIT. how fuckin pathetic is that? they have no fuckin clue how shitty it would be to have to move away from their island paradise and everything they knew. and these people probably wont even find out why their homes are going to be underwater. if theyre lucky, the US might even give them a new home in some project in the US where they can contribute the cheap labor movement. while most of hte countries in the world have people who are worried about surviving our priority is shit like prepackaged food and being able to do what we want because we can. so yes, you can live however you want. its a matter of wanting to live more reasonably to help out. in europe and australia they stress recycling quite a bit more. there are recycle bins almost every block in amsterdam and they charge 50 c per bag at grocery stores. and it works. people reuse their bags because they know its rediculous to pay that much for a bag every time they go shopping. why cant he US do this? they dont fuckin care enough. theyre too lazy. why does the US support israel? because there are so many rich jews in the states. israel has palestinians in camps in their own country because the US lets them. and you wonder why muslims are pissed at the states. would you want to be kept in a camp? would you even want another country to bring their military into yours period? fuck no. sharon is a pigheaded dipshit just like bush and they need to get the fuck out of palestine and stay the fuck out. this holy land shit is nonsense. im not saying the US is the cause of all the worlds problems, but theyre having more and more influence in them everyday. if you dont think so, youre either blind to the facts or youre in denial man. there are great things about the US, theyre just becoming less and less everyday the bush administration is in office.

[jah]

and about the phillipines... why would they want the US in there? they didnt beg for the americans to come back and deal with al qaeda, the americans said (literally), "youre either with us or against us," pretty much telling htem that they can cooperate and let us take care of business there or they can be on our shitlist (they pretty much got told "move the fuck aside and let us work"). even if they did want the US's help its hte least they could do for how long the states occupied their country. you think theyre supposed to be greatful for those sweat shops they got from the military bases? fuck no. their countrys been occupied for years. they didnt want the bases and they sure as fuck didnt want their country to be run by the states.

[Pistol]

The reason US troops are in the Phillipines is because the ragtag Philipine "Army" was hunting these Abu Sayef guys for months/years and could never find them much less catch them bring them to trial and release the hostages. And they knew the Americans could and WILL get the job done. The only reason the govt. didn't ok it before was because of National Pride and other politic bullshit about letting foreign troops work on Philipine soil. Hopefully the Philipne army can pay attention to US soldiers and get the job done. The US Navy Seebees already built what they had to and left.

[jah]

maybe so. wouldnt you say its rather coinsidental that the US is in there right after 9-11 when there are a lot of al qaeda members over there? i thought so...

[JimmyHofa]

in response to socrates: how did a person who believes in the feasibility of a one world government ever get a master's degree in anything?

[imported_suburbian bum]

Man im not even going to take the time to explain my veiws. They are almost exactly the fucking same as jah. I know a lot of people will tell me that im just some fucking tree hugger. I dont care, america has lost touch with why we are here. Thats the earth, we should fucking take care of it.

Anyone who thinks im just a "dirty hippie" can go have the best day of their lives.

[Canadiano]

Originally posted by suburbian bum
Man im not even going to take the time to explain my veiws. They are almost exactly the fucking same as jah. I know a lot of people will tell me that im just some fucking tree hugger. I dont care, america has lost touch with why we are here. Thats the earth, we should fucking take care of it.

Anyone who thinks im just a "dirty hippie" can go have the best day of their lives.

I've been called a tree hugger, and my heart has been broken nuff times because of what we do to our planet. But I still hate these new school hippies. Bunch of fucking hypocrites!

[KaBar]

Hell, I was a REAL hippie, and I don't entertain such naivete, LOL. All I can say is you guys have been snookered. You can't see the elephant in the living room. That's okay, you are perfectly welcome to your opinions, and I'm sure your viewpoint will be a comfort to you when you're older, LOL. I held ridiculous opinions myself when I was a kid, and I held them for a hell of a lot longer than any of you guys are likely to.

There's something about people, I'm not sure exactly what it is, but a lot of people, and especially a lot of young people, just have a very hard time obeying the law. They insist that they can do whatever they please, which is not true. Then when they get arrested, convicted and punished for breaking the law, they whine and cry and say "It's not FAIR! Why ME?" It's stupid, because they could have avoided the whole thing by simply obeying the law.
As for the War on Drugs, drugs are illegal. The punishment is way scarey. I don't want to go to prison, so I don't do drugs. End of story. If hopping trains had a ten-year minimum sentence, that would be the end of hopping trains for me.

Laws are not permenant, they can be changed. All you need to do is convince enough Americans that using drugs is just great, and "presto!" the law will be changed. Groovy! But until then, no hope for dope.

As for the elections in Columbia, the nation is at civil war. We will probably get involved on the side of the government of Columbia. (I can't really see the U.S. gov't weighing in on the side of formerly-Communist, narcotrafficante terrorists.) When we do get involved, the trafficantes will get the shit stomped out of them. One car bomb here in the States, and the populace will go crazy with blood lust to kill trafficantes. We will pour millions of dollars worth of military aid into Columbia. They will pay us back in coffee. American troops will become excellent narcotics interdiction operatives, and probably all start snorting coke.

Life will go on. "Columbia: that's Spanish for Viet Nam." Thirty years after the end of the war, we will have a zillion Columbians living here, opening "Columbiatown Malls" and getting into fist fights over which faction of crooked Columbiana was right) back in 2002.

[jah]

im not saying drugs are good, im saying hte war on drugs doesnt work. theyre turning nonviolent criminals into killers by locking them up with people who are convicted murderers, rapists, gangsters, burglars, and other violent criminals in general. you adapt to your environment. i dont do drugs either. thats funny what you said about people always breaking the law then complaining when they get cuaght. thats too true. i got busted a couple years ago and i never thought tthat shit would happen to me. it was a big wake up call for sure. it was one of hte best lessons of my life. i missed a trip to mexico and christmas because of it but it was well worth it. hahaha. i saw how much it really sucked to be locked up. and it wasnt even that bad for me. i would hate to be in that place for a long time up with the violent criminals on max security. anyway. ive stated my oppinion and youve stated yours. maybe mine will change sometime... maybe yours will....

peace

[Daddy_Screw]

politics is all bullshit

[I Luv Roo]

Kabar
from your stories, you were a MARINE in the 60's, correct me if I'm wrong though. And partying with hippie girls when you were on leave doesn't make you a bonafide hippie - or maybe it does, since hippie was a term created by the media to give a shallow, partier, druggie appearance to people who thought different. Maybe you just fell into that hype, just like you're doing now. But where were you for all the political shit that made the 60's such a historical period of time? Did you do any work with the civil rights movement? the american indian movement? the women's liberation movement? the black panther party? What about the trial where they literally gagged Bobby Seale, violating all his rights? Wounded Knee? Gay rights movement? Or what about when the police killed four students at Kent State? Got any other wisdom about the time you want to shed on us younger kids? Hey, just cause you were alive back then don't mean you're an expert on it.

But - it's now. And I'm one angry american - SICK and TIRED of the shit that people put up with in this country. In Los Angeles yesterday, three whitecops pinned a 16 year old black boy and beat him up - it's on video tape. What happened to the cop? He's on PAID administrative leave! It's not just the shit our government is doing all around the world - it's right here, right now.

People just continue to consume, continue to turn their brains off so they don't have to be faced with anything real or painful. Numb out. Isn't that what they wanted you to do in the sixties too? Tune in, turn on and drop out?

[Mr. Mang]

i always thought of hippies as the drugged up ones who didn't care

and activists as the ones who actually wanted to change things]

guess i was wrong?

[imported_El Mamerro]

Originally posted by KaBar
Hell, I was a REAL hippie, and I don't entertain such naivete, LOL. All I can say is you guys have been snookered. You can't see the elephant in the living room. That's okay, you are perfectly welcome to your opinions, and I'm sure your viewpoint will be a comfort to you when you're older, LOL. I held ridiculous opinions myself when I was a kid, and I held them for a hell of a lot longer than any of you guys are likely to.

There's something about people, I'm not sure exactly what it is, but a lot of people, and especially a lot of young people, just have a very hard time obeying the law.

Truer thing has never been said. Pay attention to those words guys, in 15 years the vast majority of you will realize how useless and ineffective your "revolutionary" anti-government stances are. Plus, you'll realize that most people who are in power right now had the SAME views you guys have when they were young. Then you'll end up willingly and happily joining this machine you hate so much, while the new youth scorns your wealth.

It's not so much having trouble obeying the law, as it is admitting someone has authority over you. This authority could be the most benign, righteous leader ever, and the youth will still find a way to demonize, point fingers, and blame shit on him. It's human nature, especially when you're young, to want things done the way YOU think should be done. When hormones decrease and knowledge and experience increase, attitudes change. Beer,

El Mamerro

[imported_sofarok]

Reading all this one fact springs to mind. YOU LOST VIETNAM hahahaha now some of you seem to want to repeat the process. Guerrilla wars are about knowledge (something many of you seem to lack) not overwhelming fire power. The U.S has a very bad track record fighting these kind of wars e.g.: Somalia… oh yeah and if the U.S is the place where you can be whoever you want then what the fuck are you doing living in a trailer park???

[KaBar]

Roo---You are 100% correct on the approximate age--I was the right age to have fought in Vietnam. I did not join the Marine Corps, however, until 1976. The American forces, except for a skeleton crew, were pulled out in 1972, by President Richard Nixon. Prior to that, Nixon gutted the anti-war movement when he ended the Draft, in 1971, if memory serves.

I became an anarchist at age 18, while still in high school. I was adamantly opposed to the war, and protested it vigorously for years. I travelled around the country, hitchhiking and riding trains, to attend various anti-war marches and conferences, etc. I was way into the "revolutionary youth culture." I knew people who were in the Yippies!, I knew people in SDS, in IWW, in the Socialist Workers Party, in Revolutionary Youth Movement I and also RYM II (the Weathermen.) The longer I stayed in the anti-war movement the more disillusioned I became. Everything the conservatives said was true. It was a movement that was dominated by communists. However principled and loyal the early "Peace movement" people might have been, within a few years they had all been elbowed aside by genuine Communists, some from CPUSA, some from Progressive Labor Party, some from Socialist Workers' Party and so on. Everytime I thought I knew that some anti-war figure was the real deal, he or she turned out to have some connection to the Communists. One woman was a member of the Young People's Socialist League (YPSL--pronounced yip-sul) which is the Communist Party USA's youth wing.
When the anti-war movement started to become a pro-North Vietnamese movement, I was really ready to chuck it. I had serious doubts that I knew anything true. Everybody on the left was lying their asses off, and "the enemy" , that is, the men who fought the war in Vietnam, turned out to be truer and truer and truer. Even the guys who didn't want to go, went anyway. And the loudmouth war protestors, like myself, were safely out of harm's way.
When Nixon ended the Draft, it was like someone yanked a rug out from under us. OVERNIGHT, the anti-war movement just vanished. Except for the political extremists (I was an anarchist, remember) all the regular citizens, college kids, etc., etc. just disappeared from the demonstrations. Their interest had only been their own personal safety and well-being. And since they had no intention of enlisting, and the Draft was over, "fuck it." No more anti-war movement. I was really disheartened and disillusioned. I joined the IWW and worked within that organization for several years, but I was having serious doubts that my ideas were right.

I quit IWW and after some soul searching, I enlisted in the Marines. I demanded "infantry." The Marines have a slogan--"First to Fight." If we were going to fight anybody, I wanted to go. The Corps sent me to armorer's school, instead, and I became an infantry weapons repairman. I worked as a firearms mechanic in a Battalion armory, in an infantry battalion on Camp Pendleton MCB. We moved with the infantry companies of course, when they went to the field. I was, in Marine Corps parlance, a "pogue", not a grunt. But I served in a grunt battalion. "My" armorers looked just like any other Marine in the field, though. We carried rifles, combat equipment, ammunition, etc., etc., plus a tool bag with which to repair weapons. In wartime, we would have been attached to various infantry companies, probably to the Headquarters platoon. I realize this doesn't mean much to you, but any Marines or soldiers reading this will understand. I was an MOS 2111, and I specialized in repairing M-60 GP (general purpose) machine guns. I also worked on everything else we had, M-16A1 rifles, M-1911A1 pistols, 60mm mortars, 81mm mortars, etc.

My years of bumming around and trainhopping mainly occurred while I was in my early twenties. All told, if you include my hitch hiking days in high school, and joyriding on trains for short trips, I hopped trains for about seven years, on and off, and hitch-hiked between ages 17 and 26. It wasn't all continuous. I would hitch hike somewhere, camp for a while, then jump a train, then get a job, then meet a girl and stay awhile, break up, jump another train, etc. I took my first actual journey on a freight train in 1970, where I was carrying equipment, food, water, etc. Before that, we were just screwing around, riding maybe twenty miles and then hitch hiking home.
Okay? If you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer them directly. [email protected] Obviously, my last name is not "Saxon", LOL.

[KaBar]

You're a kid, so you at least have a good excuse, but you really don't know what you're talking about. The U.S. did not lose the war in Vietnam, but it did withdraw it's troops because of political unrest at home. I doubt the U.S. government will ever make that mistake again.

Let me tell you a story about a man I knew who was from Northern Ireland and who was in the IRA. When he was young, he was an active service member of the Belfast Brigade. He told me once that his favorite weapon was the .45 Thompson submachinegun. As he got older, he married, and he and a younger brother moved to the family farm, which was close to the border with the Republic, and a major stopping point for contraband coming across the border. They were well-organized and clever, and although they were investigated and raided, they were never caught with any evidence of arms smuggling.

One day, the British Army and the RUC came and set up a checkpoint right past this fellow's gate, between his gate, and the village. They stopped him and his wife and all their family EACH AND EVERY TIME THEY LEFT THE FARM. Every single day, on their way to school, everybody in the car got searched, even the kids. This guy complained and lodged protests, all to no avail.
One night, he and his brother left the farm together in their car, and of course, they were clean as a whistle, what with having an Army personnel carrier and two RUC cars parked out by the road 24 hours a day. This particular night, the soldiers stopped them, separated them and searched them apart, and the car. It was raining. "What, Mr. IRA, no kids with you tonight, eh?" "No, they're in bed." "Ah, and no wife either." "My family is at home." "Well, then, look what I've found in the boot of your car." The soldier reached under his coat, and brought out an old Webley pistol, in .455 caliber or so. A big pistol. "That's not mine! You can't charge me with that!" "Oh, I have no intention of charging you, sir. Not at all. I'm here to let you know, up close so you understand me--get the fuck out of the country and stay out. Because next time, the corporal here is going to shoot you for being armed and resisting arrest. Do you understand me? Get the fuck out, before the month is out."
He and his brother both left and immigrated to San Francisco. "If I had stayed, eventually they would have either killed us, or sent us to prison for ten or fifteen years. I had kids. So I left."

The next time the U.S. is involved in a war where there is a big political resistance, I predict a high percentage of the protestors will prove to be posessing narcotics for sale. Bing-bam-boom. Go to a demonstration---off to prison for possession of cocaine.

I doubt that we will "lose" any more wars because of politics at home. We anti-war protestors got our wish. The Army and all the military services are now all-volunteer, and all-professional. They joined to fight. We have enough prison cells to incarcerate the leadership of any protest movement (thank you, prison reform.) African-Americans are no longer an isolated, disgruntled minority. The police chiefs and mayors of virtually every large American city are black, or have been black in the recent past. Both of our chief national security advisors are black (Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice.) The Army and the Marine Corps are both substantially minority persons, and also substanially female. There will be no military draft, so that takes care of the college kids.

And the awful thing is, we did it to ourselves. I doubt there will be any more Vietnam War-type protest movements, at least not of the dimensions of the 1960's.

[Smart]

Originally posted by jah
and about the phillipines... why would they want the US in there?

The billions of dollars it brought to the local economy?

they didnt beg for the americans to come back and deal with al qaeda, the americans said (literally), "youre either with us or against us," pretty much telling htem that they can cooperate and let us take care of business there or they can be on our shitlist (they pretty much got told "move the fuck aside and let us work").

Well, it's the Abu Sayef, and they've held American prisoners for something like 2 years, well, they recently executed the woman... But the Phillipino govt. is begging for US military 'advisement' because the Abu Sayef basically operates with impunity, kidnappings and hotel takeovers are common

even if they did want the US's help its hte least they could do for how long the states occupied their country.

We haven't occupied the Phillipines for fucking ever, we let them have their own government, though you're probably too young to remember the Marcos regime... We had a military base on the island, much like we have military bases in Germany, but you aren't bitching about the US 'occupation' of Germany...

you think theyre supposed to be greatful for those sweat shops they got from the military bases?

We didn't create the sweat shops, we built the buildings that have been converted into sweatshops. Do you go back to your old houses and mow the lawn?

fuck no.

so... they told you this?

their countrys been occupied for years. they didnt want the bases and they sure as fuck didnt want their country to be run by the states.

What years were those exactly? I already mentioned the Marcos regime, and then there was the Corazon Aquino story...

[imported_sofarok]

Originally posted by KaBar

Let me tell you a story about a man I knew who was from Northern Ireland and who was in the IRA. When he was young, he was an active service member of the Belfast Brigade.................


Im not quite sure what your point is? Although im British I agree with the Irish viewpoint on northern Ireland, at the same time there are people who live there who consider themselves British, seems very little that can be done to resolve the situation.

By the way the ira have committed hundreds of ‘terrorist’ acts, killed hundreds of ‘innocent’ people, why are they any different to Al Qaeda? Is it because there not attacking the usa? Also what is your preoccupation with firearms?

[jah]

kabar, you sound nothing like a hippie or activist or whatever you claimed to be. you may have been in the movement but it doesnt really seem like you knew what you were protesting (like many of your generation who bitched and whined endlessly about nothing). true, technically the united states didnt lose the war in vietnam. we never surrendered officially or whatever but we pulled out because we were getting our asses kicked. and they would have lost. joining the marines is what i would guess gave you this patriotic dream of america today. vietnam was none of our business. its sad that troops were sent over to die. but really, the united states got what they deserved out of htat war. who the fuck are we to get rid of communism in the world? obviously communism doesnt work. does democracy? fuck no. the united states is always going around trying to make free elections across the globe. who the fuck are we to say that other countries have to have free, fair elections? thats fuckin rich coming out of the mouth of mr bush himself. by joining the marines and still preaching about their modo or slogan or whatever youve been completerly crossed off the official "hippie" list in my book. military itself is fucked up. wars are stupid. theyre money makers. all wars. the marines go first before theres even a war. they go in with covert ops and do illegal ambushes and stuff. if you think the united states military is here to protect and serve youve been watching too many GI Joe movies. the united states hasnt been attacked by another military since ww2. marines are a bunch of fuckin jar heads man. puppets. machines. idiots. that goes for the whole military. i know a military is essencial but if the world didnt have such pigheaded mentalities they wouldnt be necessary. its mentalities like those of the american public that make the military a vital unit in government. i find it funny how everyone has the idea that its alright to sacrifice innocent people to obtain your objective. its bullshit. one innocent death is a crime. everyone in the states has demonized the al qaeda because they attack civilians. of course its wrong. of course its cruel and deserves punishment. so why the fuck do all you people think its fine when the US goes in and bombs weddings and schools and churches and kills tons of innocent people? because its not right in your face. if you ever lived outside the US (or even just travelled for a long time) to an area closer to this shit thats going on, youd have more of an appreciation for how it affects the whole world and not just you at home. hey, how heroic was it when the US dropped two nukes on japan killing over 200,000 innocent people on the spot and killing millions over the years. that was a great end to the great war wasnt it? how fuckin heroic. but hey, we saved lives. fuck that. the ends do not justify the means. if there was a war in the states and thousands of innocent people died, you wouldnt think it was so cool to do that kind of shit. oh wait, that did happen in the states and all the dumb motherfuckin citizens DO still think its cool. thats right, US citizens are so fuckin dense that flying planes into the world trade center and pentagon isnt enough to shine some light into their hollow heads. instead of thinking, "hey, you know what? weve totally tuned out the rest of the world and have just been focussing on ouselves. were so self centered, we think were the victims of everything. why dont we see whats actually going on in the world and why people want us dead. lets change our ways and get out of other peoples business so we dont get bombed again. lets stop being pests and leaches and draining the rest of the worlds resources while killing off the whole world at the same time with our pollution and shit." no no. the media tells us we didnt do anything and that superhero bush has everything under control. lets go right back to living our wasteful, unproductive lives and be even more exhobitant to shove it in their faces. fuck you world!!! fuck you!!! im going to do what i want because i can and if you dont like it you can... uh.... maybe bomb us? get a clue....

[jah]

Originally posted by sofarok



Im not quite sure what your point is? Although im British I agree with the Irish viewpoint on northern Ireland, at the same time there are people who live there who consider themselves British, seems very little that can be done to resolve the situation.

By the way the ira have committed hundreds of ‘terrorist’ acts, killed hundreds of ‘innocent’ people, why are they any different to Al Qaeda? Is it because there not attacking the usa? Also what is your preoccupation with firearms?



the british have been bringin protestants into northernt ireland since they occupied them in the 12th century. they gave irish catholics benefits for truning protestant and have been doing so for hundreds of years. the plan is to have enough protestants there to keep the people from a revolt or electing an irish leader that wants britain out. its working pretty good. over the years these brits who were brought in have been integrated into northern ireland and are now irish, therefore there are a lot of irish who support britiains occupation and thats one of the reasons its been so hard to get rid of britain.

[Smart]

Originally posted by jah
kabar, you sound nothing like a hippie or activist or whatever you claimed to be. you may have been in the movement but it doesnt really seem like you knew what you were protesting (like many of your generation who bitched and whined endlessly about nothing).

the civil rights movement? NOTHING! the war in vietnam? NOTHING!

i know a military is essencial but if the world didnt have such pigheaded mentalities they wouldnt be necessary.

So, now it's "the world's" fault? Make up your mind man...


I think some of the biggest things Kabar has going for him in this debate is that he has a better knowledge of the facts and his ability to spell correctly lends an air of authenticity to his words...

[avils]

Originally posted by Smart


I think some of the biggest things Kabar has going for him in this debate is that he has a better knowledge of the facts and his ability to spell correctly lends an air of authenticity to his words...

-=-=

Originally posted by smart

the civil rights movement? NOTHING! the war in vietnam? NOTHING!



well, genius.. you should have put "?" marks after the above two "NOTHING !" statements.. i.e "the civil rights movement? NOTHING ??"

hahah from those two sentences it sounds like you're on jah's side.


:rolleyes:

[Smart]

Originally posted by avils


well, genius.. you should have put "?" marks after the above two "NOTHING !" statements.. i.e "the civil rights movement? NOTHING ??"

hahah from those two sentences it sounds like you're on jah's side.


:rolleyes:

Oh jokes... I get jokes...


I meant for it to sound like that, genius

[avils]

Originally posted by Smart
I meant for it to sound like that, genius

oh yeah !!!!!! well so did I !!!!!!

ummm.. hello.

[jah]

smart. i dont like typing. i dont like writing long stories. if i dont spell some words correctly that could be because ive been out of school and just travelling and partying for the last year, or because i made a mistake, or typo, or i just may not know how to spell the word. either way, spelling is not the point. if i wanted to take the time to use correct grammar i could but thats not going to happen. about your phillipines statements... i was hesitant to write that because i didnt know much about that situation but i just said fuck it and wrote what i thought based on what little i knew about the history of hte phillipines.

am i blaming the world? sure, why not. the whole worlds fucked up. not just the united states. but the main argument here is the united states roll in whats going on. the main argument here is that the united states is some innocent, heroic country who wants to solve all the worlds problems and they dont do anything to deserve an attack vs the united states is fuckin up mad shit and they deserve whats coming to them. you know what? im sure kabar knows tons of shit i dont know. how could he not when hes 3 times (?) my age? but he seems to have some "naive" ideas about his country and maybe hes a little confused with patriotism. as he stated (im not going to find the exact quote but....) "ill ive how i want to live cus im an american." that is the exact point im trying to stress. thats how americans think. they dont even pay attention to what the government is doing. they see what they see onthe news and thats what they think is going on. or maybe they get their info from bush's relatives themselves (he is from texas). who knows. all i know is that the US is fuckin up tons of shit around hte world. i didnt hear one argument against the fact that we're producing 40 % of hte co2 in the world. i got that info from national geographic and i think theyre telling the truth. i didnt hear any argument about the fact that thousands of pacific island countries are going to be GONE within decades, some within years. those facts were put aside completely and i just kept hearing about how im full of shit and i can leave if i dont like whats going on. how about hte fact that palestinians are in camps (literally) because of the US aiding israel in occupying palestine. do you think that might make muslims a little angry? there are endless amounts of things the United States does that is pissing off the rest of hte world and fucking up the planet. kabar wants to tell me he lives in a free nation cus he can go down to the park and buttfuck some guy? thats not freedom. i want to smoke herb. herb is illegal because hemp would take too much business from teh corporations that own america. hemp is illegal (allegedly) because marijuana comes from it and marijuana is a drug. whats wrong with this picture? just because someone has age on their side doesnt mean they know what time it is.

[KaBar]

This whole argument that somehow smoking marijuana is all tied up with not polluting the eartyh and psuedo-socialist-ecopolitics is just nonsense. Smoking dope is against the law, but since when has that stopped anybody? The American troops in Vietnam smoked enough marijuana to put a hole in the ozone layer, but that didn't stop them from fighting the war. They also were just about obsessed with the avante-garde music of the 1960's. Today, like right now, on Okinawa, you can go into rock clubs in Kin ville across the MSR from Camp Hansen, and there are posters on the wall dating from 1969 and 1970 of Jimi Hendrix, et al. There was a club there called "Purple Haze" (the name of a famous Hendrix song) and they sell absinthe mixed with Kool-Aid and call it "mojo" (as in "I got my mojo workin', baby, but it just don't work on YOU.") Marines with peace symbols on their body armor were common during Vietnam. (Didn't you ever watch "Full Metal Jacket"? You know--the Duality of Man?)

Back in the '80s I had a bunch of friends in San Francisco who were definately part and parcel of the Financial District downtown. One worked for the computer programming company that had the contract for the San Francisco Stock Exchange. They used every drug under the sun (even I was shocked at the corporate dope culture) and they were passionately focused on the Almighty Dollar. Of course, it was as illegal as can be.

Just recently there was a big scandal in the Marine Corps at Camp Le Jeune Marine Base, where a bunch of Marines were arrested for selling or using several drugs, including Ecstasy. It's like "Oh no, Marines using drugs? How could this be?" Indeed. They don't call themselves Uncle Sam's Motorcycle Club for nothing.

The use of "hemp" (LOL) doesn't signify anything but a desire to get fucked up. There is no conspiracy to erradicate hemp because it's so valuable. It's against the law. That's the only reason. Alaska legalized it out of a spirit of libertarian do-as-thou-wilt, but when a million pot smoking dumbasses from the Lower 48 rushed up there so they could smoke dope, they outlawed it again. Do you have any idea how big Alaska is? Nobody up there gives a flying fuck if somebody smokes marijuana. But they do care about a bunch of outsiders moving in and screwing up their state. "Tourists Go Home--But Leave Your Daughter."

And as for firearms and my obsession with them, you have no idea. Believe me, here in Texas, gun ownership is so deeply imbedded in the Texas national culture that we could probably arm the Texas Army National Guard a hundred times over out of privately held arsenals. When I went and trained with the Texas Constitutional Militia, it looked like a gathering of the National Guard, except they use civilian 4x4 trucks and privately owned airboats. One time we even got to fire NFA legal, tax-paid machine guns brought by an NFA dealer, and he paid for the ammunition. The one I got to fire was an 8mm German MG-42 from WWII. It was more fun than anything I've done in years. Nobody will ever, ever disarm Texas, you can take that to the bank.
Not only are they armed and equipped very much like the U.S. Army or the Marines, they have radio communication, Medical care sections, logistical sections, and so on, much like the regular armed forces. Since the tragic Oklahoma City bombing, though, they have pretty much laid low. The individual members are still out there though. And so are the ammo caches and supply dumps, although a lot of that stuff must be getting pretty much out-of-date by now. The webmaster for the TCM even closed the web site, I heard. You might look it up on your browser if you're interested. I don't know if obsession is the correct word. It comes close, though. Every single person over 21 that I know owns firearms. About 85% of the adults that I know, both men and women, hold Concealed Handgun Carry licenses here in Texas. I heard somebody say on the radio that Harris County (of which the city of Houston is a major part) is the execution capital of the world. I don't know. Probably so. Tomorrow they are going to execute one of the Klansmen that dragged James Byrd, Jr. to death behind a pick-up truck in Jasper, TX. All I can say is "one more racist murderer off the count." It won't bring back Byrd, true. So what? They should smoke the other two as well, but one of them got life in prison. All I can say is that Texas juries are getting soft. No sympathy for sorry-ass murderers.

What was the question again?

[I Luv Roo]

One thing I thought of when reading about them executing the klan guy in texas (good, first, then:)
What about when Bush defended Texas's death penalty by saying they were ALL right (meaning they didn't kill one person who may have been innocent) and that he fully supported every death sentence. But he had no answer for the proof that many people on death row have been proven innocent, through dna tests, etc. What was the percentage again? something like 15%? Now that's a faulty system, and that's why it's fucked. But anyway, I don't wanna get started on the justice system...

Your view on the sixties activists is different from the millions of others who were around and very extremely active at the time. My god-father was one of the creators of the Oracle (the paper from SF), and there were many more, so I've gained a pretty balanced perspective of it all without having to get it from the movies.

At the same time, I don't totally disagree with militia. But one year in military school was enough for me to see that they try to brainwash you (for obvious reasons, the main being that one is a soldier, their not paying you to think about shit) - and once you're brainwashed, you don't really think too outside of it anymore. But when the Panthers took up arms, how can I disagree? for them, it was 'by any means necessary' - and I still think that to a certain degree. People are always going to have to fight the fight whether its militarily or intellectually.

But this country's military interests are not for anything but to make the wealthy even wealthier. Bush's and Cheney's only concern is money for themselves (that's why I wonder how there are so many poor people that vote republican). They balk at the country daily in their psuedo speeches and laugh at America's loss of control over voter rights. America and the government have a responsibility to its people - to uphold this great lifestyle that you say we all have by sharing the wealth and putting taxed into education, healthcare and welfare - not militia. There are many americans who do not have a comfortable lifestyle or home or job - they are ignored by the status quo.
NATIVE AMERICANS for godsake live in some of the poorest and most decrepid situations in the country....probably poorer than most third world countries too! Is that the lifestyle you are talking about - or is it just your own lifestyle you are happy about?

On another note - not all countries want to imitate american lifestyle, many are extremely proud of their heritage and culture. But American corporations have infiltrated the world - telling everyone all over "you must be like this, you want this, you won't be enough until you have it" through subsersiveadvertisement. The brainwashing starts and people start to want American things, yet despise America at the same time - and not even know why! The balance is upset forever.

I was in Amsterdam recently, and they treat drug addiction as a health issue rather than a crime. It is a beautiful, peaceful, clean and orderly city - really a model! People smoke pot, but they aren't overcome by it - it's just like having a beer. Geez, it was so nice to smoke a joint and be comfortable that you weren't breaking any stupid law, walk around stoned and appreciate the city and the people. Yet, there aren't potheads all over the place, it's just normal!

sorry its all mixed up but there are alot of different little topics to address.

[Smart]

yeah, just to get off topic for a sec... let's talk about Amsterdam... it is a beautiful city, and the Dutch govt. does have a truly enlightened view of drug abuse and treatment... you realize that prostitution is legal as well, a theory I support, but...

that legal enterprise, prostitution, is a front for some of the largest human slavery rings in the world... of course there ar many other countries and cities these groups are active in, but let's stay in Holland... Thousands of women held in bondage, brutal human rights deprevation... Are the Dutch thereby responsible for all the flesh trade world wide?

Another thing... OF COURSE there's pot heads all over the place, it's just normal...

[I Luv Roo]

yikes. (about the prosty slave trading). Since I'm not into porn or any of that I sort of ignored the brothels and stuff - and thought those ladies in the windows looked more bored than anything else.

And, yeah - there's potheads everywhere, true, its normal! - I just meant it's not out of control at all, and hard drug addicts get clinical help. It just seemed like a way better system (but it could be that they have a very small area to be responsible for, and America is huge, so things would naturally be different).

[jah]

kabar, you missed the point that i was trying ot make. when i said i want to smoke herb i was referring to the coment you made about america being a country where you can do what you want. if it was a free country, i could smoke weed. whatever though. you just opened a whole new can of argument by saying that theres no conspiracy to keep hemp illegal. read up on it. its a huge conspiracy. hemp is not illegal because weed is illegal. its illegal because its so efficient and there are so many different uses for it. back in the 30's a machine was invented that would process hemp fibers into materials (pretty much a cotton gin for hemp). after this invention, hemp was going to be the next billion dollar crop (there are actual news paper articles from 1938 with ads about it) and this would greatly interfere with the cotton industry. not to mention the paper and timber industries. even oil. its proven, say whatever you want but its a fact, that hemp can be used to make a totally clean, energy efficient fuel that would be much cheaper and cleaner than oil. im pretty sure you can go a lot further without having to fill up too but im not positive so i wont state that as fact. by the way, people were still using marijuana frequently all over the world around this time too. so it also was hurting the tobacco and alcohol industries business too. so anyway, hearst and anslinger and a few others i cant remember (it has been alittle while and a lot of joints since i read about this shit) got together and decided something needed to be done. so they released loads of propoganda saying marijuana was a colored persons drug and it lured white women to them and all this other shit (you get the idea). all of the sudden marijuana is a terrible drug (all the while the upper class are smoking their ganjah (hash imported from turkey)) and it must be kept away from people (this was hte exact time refer madness came out. have you seen that movie? funniest shit ive ever seen). anyway, marijuana got demonized and made illegal, hence making hemp illegal because hemp cannot be grown without some females getting in there and flowering. so yea, its illegal now. all of the sudden america gets bombed by japan and were in ww2. so the countries desperate for resources now. they need good materials to make parachutes, shoe laces, rope.... a lot of things. what do they do? they bring hemp back (george bush sr.'s life was saved by his hemp parachute by the way) and win the war. so what excuse can they give to make it bad again because its sure as hell not staying on the market? well, a couple years later they were faced with a new problem, communism!!!! oh my god! now weed turns you into a zombie. if weed isnt stopped, our soldiers will become passive zombies and we'll be taken over by communists!!! ah shit! anyway, lots of propoganda and false information..... they did a study that revealed marijuana had 3 times the carcinogens as tobacco. guess how they came up with those results. they tested the marijuana leaf. the studies revealed that the LEAF (the part that smart people dont smoke) has 3x the carcinogens but the bud only had one third! then they did a test that showed marijuana would give you brain damage or possibly put you into a coma. guess how they came to this conclusion. they strapped monkeys with gas masks and pumped straight smoke into their lungs for a matter of minutes without allowing them any oxygen. the lack of oxygen itself for that amount of time would give you brain damage. great results huh? you, my friend are naive if you think hemp is illegal because its bad. you say, "theres no conspiracy to erradicate hemp. its against the law. thats the only reason." lol. spoken like a true american. let me rephrase that for you, "the only reason hemp isnt legal is because its illegal." yeah, dude, thats a valid point. what do marines do for a living after they get the boot? become cops???

[T.T Boy]

[img]http://www.ianai.net/jokes/forumpix/ChangingSubject.jpg'>

sorry i had to.

[Pistol]

i don't think weed is that disturbing to carry mandatory minimums but at the same time I don't want to see potheads walking arounf the street all the time.

[Smart]

well, I resent the implication that because I know about this I might be 'into porn or any of that', but...

yeah, in the red light districts the girls are usually legit, and students that are seriouly just doing a job that's pretty lucrative... on the outskirts of town, however, in the 'underground' brothels, many of the girls are 'indintured' to Russian and other Eastern European (mostly) pimps... girls are kept inside the houses and make little or no money per trick. They are basically exploited for years to pay off debts that are pretty miniscule in a real world economy ($3000 or so)...

To be fair, the only reason Holland is 'hot spot' is because of their laws, but they demand strong regulation and many of these renegade brothels either forge documents, pay off individual cops or just fly under the radar as long as possible...

[jah]

roo, smart, i was just in amsterdam for six months. fist of all, a lot of people think that weed and prostitution is legal there. this is wrong. its decriminlized. meaning they dont really give a fuck but they can bust you if they want. the dude we stayed with got busted for growing one time and he lived there. and while of course there are potheads walking around, holland has a much lower number of users than the states (in proportion or course). the way they look at heroine addicts as sick instead of criminals helps keep the crime there down a lot! its a great policy. when i was on a tram one time it stopped all the sudden for no reason. i was wondering why it stopped then the driver walked up the guy in front of me and slapped some shit out of his hand and told him to get off hte tram. when i saw the guy pick up a smoking piece of foil and a glassi couldnt believe it. dude was smokin heroine on the tram. thats a fuckin disease if ive ever seen one.

[Smart]

Originally posted by Pistol
i don't think weed is that disturbing to carry mandatory minimums but at the same time I don't want to see potheads walking arounf the street all the time.

whoops! too late...

[jah]

hahahaha.

[T.T Boy]

Originally posted by Pistol
i don't think weed is that disturbing to carry mandatory minimums but at the same time I don't want to see potheads walking arounf the street all the time.

i heard something about a three strike policy down in cali, that if you got caught with a possession or was it possession with intent to traffic charge three times youd land yourself 25 to life? im my opinion thats ridiculous, i cant count how many times ive been busted smoking a joint up here and most of the time i get a "put it out" "dont do that here, do it at home" "step on it" "ill just take the rest of what you have, dont let me catch you again" response, i think that something like 25 years is out of the question entirley. is that really true? thats just terrible if it is, i mean if marijuana can land you a life sentance, id get the fuck out of that state on the double.

[Smart]

'decriminalized' is synonymous with 'legal'

[I Luv Roo]

Originally posted by Smart
well, I resent the implication that because I know about this I might be 'into porn or any of that', but...

yeah, in the red light districts the girls are usually legit, and students that are seriouly just doing a job that's pretty lucrative... on the outskirts of town, however, in the 'underground' brothels, many of the girls are 'indintured' to Russian and other Eastern European (mostly) pimps... girls are kept inside the houses and make little or no money per trick. They are basically exploited for years to pay off debts that are pretty miniscule in a real world economy ($3000 or so)...

To be fair, the only reason Holland is 'hot spot' is because of their laws, but they demand strong regulation and many of these renegade brothels either forge documents, pay off individual cops or just fly under the radar as long as possible...

no, that actually wasn't an implication, just my own admittance of ignorance on the subject. Sorry to offend you, man.

[Smart]

s'ok, I'll let it slide, I was just saying...

[Pistol]

The 3 stikes your out law is for violent crimes. Smoking joints even trafficking don't count. Just whatever sentence the crime itself carries.

[jah]

Originally posted by Smart
'decriminalized' is synonymous with 'legal'


no. get a law book, read up on both of them, and come back and tell me they mean the same thing. the guy who we stayed with in amsterdam, who lived there, got busted. why would ne get busted if it was legal? not the same....

[T.T Boy]

Originally posted by Smart
'decriminalized' is synonymous with 'legal'

you know, a friend and i have been having that same argument for ages.

[jah]

Originally posted by Pistol
The 3 stikes your out law is for violent crimes. Smoking joints even trafficking don't count. Just whatever sentence the crime itself carries.


WRONG!! the 3 strikes rule applies to any felony. granted, youre probably not going to be put away for life if youve been caught three times for growing, they could if htey wanted to.....

[Pistol]

What is a Strike?

A strike is a prior conviction of a serious or violent felony. They are listed in the California Penal Code. Serious felonies are listed at Penal Code Section 1192.7 ©, while violent felonies are listed at Penal Code Section 667.5 ©. [Bill-link to both of these code sections].

The 3-Strikes law went into effect on March 7, 1994. This means that the current felony must have occurred after the effective date to trigger 3-Strikes sentencing. However, the prior strike convictions could have occurred at any time. This means that priors from before March 7, 1994 count as strikes, even though the 3-Strikes law had not been implemented yet.


although 2 violent crime convictions and a petty count.

[Smart]

ok, look, I don't have a law book handy but... DEcriminalize means to stop making something criminal... i.e. legal...

just because it's regulated doesn't make it prohibited... I can own all the bug spray I want but if I spray it in a bag and huff it, then I'm breaking the law... I can own all the matresses I want but god forbid I tear off that label!!!

Also, let's say you have a small crop of 5 plants, if the DA so chooses, that can be 5 seperate counts of felony cultivation, the jury will have to decide on each plant/case... the judge may or may not rule that the punishment on those 5 counts runs concurrent or consecutive, assuming your found guilty, which we all hope you won't be...

[jah]

you could be right. im not positive about it but everything ive ever heard about it implies that any felony will get you a strike. plus. its a federal law, not just in california. what about robery? if you commit three roberies where no one gets hurt or maybe the people arent even around, are you saying the three strikes rule wont apply to that?

[Pistol]

soooooo about them terrorists.
:rolleyes:

[Smart]

Originally posted by Pistol
soooooo about them terrorists.
:rolleyes:

[I Luv Roo]

It's so funny how the word 'terrorist' got changed from "someone who goes around killing innocent people" to "arabs who want to kill americans".

Hey, did you guys know that:
during the Reagan administration, the secretary of defense, Caspar Weinberger ordered a CIA sponsored car bombing in Lebanon that killed over 80 civilians, and this was just outside of a mosque. The car bomb went off when people were exiting the mosque after prayer. This was their way of fighting terrorism.

[jah]

look at it this way, if herb was legal, absolutely legal, you could grow it, sell it, smoke it, or whipe your ass with it when youre out of paper. thats legal. if it was legal, my friend would not have been busted. if it was legal, you could go downtown in amsterdam with a big sign on your back saying, "weed for sale" and a handbag full of ounces and sell them to anyone. try that and see what happens. at the least, youll be asked to leave. most likely youll get your weed taken though. another thing is that you can get busted for smoking weed in public. if you wakl down the streets smoking a spliff you probably wont get in trouble but they could bust you if they want. there is a difference. for instance, if weed was decriminalized in the states you may get to grow up to ten plants (lets just say) and have up to an ounce on you at a time. if it was legal you could grow as much as you wanted and you could do what you please with it. if it was the same thing why would they not jsut legalize it? its because they want to be able to take it away if they decide they dont like it. or they want to be able to regulate it and bust people if they dont like em or something. there is a difference man.

[Pistol]

who gives a fuck about weed? i mean people are dying and willing to commit suicide to kill innocent people.

[Smart]

guns are legal, absolutely legal, but I still can't shoot people

cars are legal, absolutely legal, but I still can't run folks down

[jah]

well, the discussion wasnt about weed, it was about decriminalization. about the terrorists. thats fucked up about the car bombing in lebenon. what about the wedding bombing a couple weeks ago? whats going to happen because of that? not a damn thing. thats real terrorism right there; flying over an unsuspecting, celebrating group of people and dropping a fuckin bomb on them out of no where. but why are people angry with the US? we dont do anything....

[Pistol]

Originally posted by jah
flying over an unsuspecting, celebrating group of people and dropping a fuckin bomb on them out of no where. but why are people angry with the US? we dont do anything....

the difference is that was an accident while Hamas deliberately plans to kill innocent women and children at the supermarket.
it sucks. but in wars there is going to be collateral damage whether we like it or not on both sides.

[jah]

come on man. no shit guns are legal and you cant shoot people. thats the equivalent of weed being legal you go around forcing it into peoples lungs. or maybe whipping people with hemp plants. youre just arguing to be right now.

[jah]

Originally posted by Pistol


the difference is that was an accident while Hamas deliberately plans to kill innocent women and children at the supermarket.
it sucks. but in wars there is going to be collateral damage whether we like it or not on both sides.


hey, oops, i accidentally killed your mom. then i accidentally raped her. im sorry. lets be friends.

[Pistol]

Originally posted by jah



hey, oops, i accidentally killed your mom. then i accidentally raped her. im sorry. lets be friends.
that's a stretch dude. come on you gotta get something better than that.

[Smart]

Originally posted by jah
what about the wedding bombing a couple weeks ago? whats going to happen because of that? not a damn thing. thats real terrorism right there; flying over an unsuspecting, celebrating group of people and dropping a fuckin bomb on them out of no where. but why are people angry with the US? we dont do anything....

they didn't leave base with this plan to bomb a wedding party... the investigation is still ongoing, why don't you wait until the official verdict is rendered and the evidence made public to voice your opinion? Only in the last week or so has the US admitted that there is film of the friendly fire attack on the Canadians... or did you think that was terrorism too?

[jah]

yea yea. the investigation right. like hte enron investigation. i guess thats still ongoing. bullshit. what do you think is going to happen after this investigation is over? the whole point is that people have forgotten what the word terrorism means. does it matter if it was an accident? a little but not really. if youre running military operations you do your homework and you dont drop "accidental" bombs. thats bullshit. its carelessnes that shouldnt be tolerated. if i accidentally shoot someon in the head and say i was aiming for the guys dog because it dug up my garden id still get charged with murder, or at least manslaughter. you dont accidentally drop bombs on the wrong people. we have the best inteligence in the world and we accidentally mistake a wedding for terrorists? fuck that. and everyone back there in america just thinks, "oh well, it was an accident." i cant stress enough: YOU DONT ACCIDENTALLY DROP A BOMB. obviously it happens but it should not be considered an accident and therefor forgotten about. jesus christ!

[I Luv Roo]

So far, Bush has only expressed his condolences regarding the wedding bombing. There is no way he (or the rest of them) will take responsibility for that 'accident'. They will work politics to try to gain some favor again, and hope that if it doesn't get too much media coverage, that people will forget about it. It's history - the government's mistakes are never owned up to - just washed over. There won't be an official verdict. They are counting on Americans' short attention spans on this one.

Regardless - fighter jets in war cannot afford such mistakes - which I'm sure most people agree with. Same goes with friendly fire kills. If it doesn't get people pissed off and ready to strike back, in the least it makes our armed forces look incredibly incompetent. How long can America be allowed to be incompetent?

[jah]

Originally posted by Smart


not true, I've been right since before I posted the first time, but that's irrellevant... the reason I'm arguing now is to show you that you need to spend a bit more time researching your arguments instead of soapboxing indiscriminantley for the way the world 'ought to be'


right dude. youve done your research and youve found decriminalization to be the same as legalization? where were you researching??? ah yes, the library of smart's brain.

[Pistol]

If you look at the history of war all sides make mistakes. Just because they are smart bombs doesent make them perfect. War is hell people die.

It's funny how when the 9/11 shit happened all the tree huggers were "wait let's not jump to conclusions and blame Al Qaeda, it could have been domestic white terrorists" yet when the wedding thing happens the same ones are "we planned this" or "blaming the US" without waiting for any concrete evidence

[Pistol]

your trying to argue the semantics while avoiding the issues at hand which are much more serious than that.

[jah]

as found in websters:

legalization: to make legal or lawful; authorise or sanction.


decriminalization: to reduce or abolish the punishment for a crime.


same? i dont think so.

[Pistol]

Originally posted by Pistol
your trying to argue the semantics while avoiding the issues at hand which are much more serious than that.

[Smart]

yes, well, I deleted that post since I thought it was needlessly inflammatory, but.. yep, the library of Smart's brain... I've forgotten more than you've had the opportunity to learn twice over, get used to it, it's not gonna change. I never claimed to be infallable but I know when I'm correct and I could recognize your specious reasoning from 5 miles off...

and NEXT... the wedding party must have been eaten up with fire from a gunship because the Army says that all 5 bombs had visual confirmation of hits, 4 on target and 1 in some wasteland, from the ground...

ENRON? Damn, you can't wait to lose one argument before you defend it with some other losing argument that you don't know much about... TT's right, when you get cornered you change the subject, when you get pinned, like KaBar had you, you resort to personal attacks (like calling him stupid and deriding his 'generations' ability to figure out why they were protesting)

[I Luv Roo]

It seemed pretty apparent to me that it was an accident. But this army's made alot of really dumb mistakes since this 'war on terrorism' began - and they are starting to look like irresponsible idiots with no respect for lives that aren't american.

Now stop arguing over decriminalizatin and legalization!

BTW - that car bombing in the 80's was no accident. read above statement again, then go online and do some more research. then watch frontline - any time its on.

[jah]

pistol, im not saying anyone planned this. and i know there are mistakes in war that are unavoidable. but look at the situation:

who was firing back at the planes that dropped the bombs? anyone? (i honestly dont know)

what gave them the idea that the people down there were terrorists? (did they just ask a kid on the corner and take his word for it? they obviously didnt go check it out)


dont blame it on the bomb man. those bombs can hit their targets. why did the people drop them there. why did they think those hundreds of people were al qaeda? if i hear a logical explination for why they thought it was a place where they should drop a bomb i may consider it an accident. but still. what if someone accidentally bombed a wedding in america? a true accident. what would you say abou that? would you say, "oh, they said they didnt mean to. i guess if it was an accident we shouldnt blame them for my friends mom being dead and my church being blown to hell." come on now. im sure they didnt intentionally bomb the wedding. there are just some things that are unacceptable whether they were on purpose or not. they should know what theyre bombing all the time!!

[Smart]

Originally posted by jah
as found in websters:

legalization: to make legal or lawful; authorise or sanction.


decriminalization: to reduce or abolish the punishment for a crime.


same? i dont think so.

ok, loosely synonymous... and it still bears out the relationship I illustrated, between prohibition and regulation... SO, I DO know exactly what I'm talking about WITHOUT the use of dictionarys and your attempt to prove me wrong has backfired...

[imported_Klypse]

damn shut up already smart. your adding nothing but insults to this argument, and changing the subject as much as jah is.

I've forgotten more than you've had the opportunity to learn twice over, get used to it, it's not gonna change.
get over yourself man, your a moderator at a website. thats it.

[Pistol]

jah, you'd be surprised how many contacts are working for us in Afghanistan. We feed them some cash and they let us know who's who and who's planning shit, who's staying where etc. The problem is that alot of these governors/warlords are now using the US Military to carry out there business by taking out rivals etc. I'm not saying this is the case for the wedding party but...

[Smart]

Originally posted by jah
who was firing back at the planes that dropped the bombs? anyone? (i honestly dont know)

well, it seems that the Afghans were firing rifles into the air in a traditional show of celebration

what gave them the idea that the people down there were terrorists? (did they just ask a kid on the corner and take his word for it? they obviously didnt go check it out)

If you fire on (or in the general direction of) the US Army you are considered an enemy... If you shoot at the cops they're gonna shoot back...


dont blame it on the bomb man.

right, because like I said, the Army claims to have line of sight verification of all of the bombs detonation, and none of those were in the area of the wedding party

[jah]

smart. you would make a good politician cus you you know how to take something that is irrelivant and make it sound important. i didnt change the subject to enron. i simply used it as a reference. the point is that the investigation isnt going to lead anywhere. that was all i was trying to say. and now that ive pissed you off youre making personal attacks that arent true. i never called kabar stupid. i called him naive just like he called me. i have no problem with kabar and i agree with him on a lot of the stuff ive read in other threads. we just dont agree on this shit. fine. no beef over it. anyway, about hte decriminalization thing. i have no idea how that backfired. the conclusion: you were wrong. its right there in writing boy. how can reducing punishment for a crime and making something legal be the same. youre trippin. about the wedding party, are you claiming they never got bombed. im not quite catchin what youre trying to say there.

[Smart]

Originally posted by Klypse
get over yourself man, your a moderator at a website. thats it.

yeah, but that has nothing to do with my level of intelligence, it's just a hobby... heh, get over myself, like I walk out in traffic with arm extended shouting:

"HALT TRAFFIC! I am a website moderator!"

In the bank:

"I'll go next, for I am a website Mod-er-ate-tor!"

in fact, I was keeping it kind of a secret, but I've got my stuff to make my SuperModerator costume... I'm gonna fight crime!

[I Luv Roo]

geez - Is there really such a need to defend the US military? It's not the soldiers who make the decisions - it's Bush, Cheney, and the rest - and you defending them would seem utterly rediculous!

Unless you are the FBI, CIA or an investigative reporter, you know jack shit, just as much as the average bumpkin. So maybe put your two cents in and your take on all of this, but don't present it like you know everything about everything - it should all be open for discussion (in an ideal 12 oz. world)...

Noone knows: I don't, you don't, jah doesn't, Pistol doesn't. The further the discussion goes, the more apparent that point becomes.

[jah]

well, the fact that people were firing at the planes makes it much more understandable. still it was inexcusable and there should be punishment. those peopel down there werent doing anything wrong and now theyre dead. who gives a shit if it was an accident? not me....

[Pistol]

Originally posted by jah
you would make a good politician cus you you know how to take something that is irrelivant and make it sound important. i didnt change the subject to enron. i simply used it as a reference.

like you and your arguments with smart over the semantics of the whole decriminalization and legalization of Marijuana. You one of the main reasons weed was being discussed in this terrorist thread.

[Smart]

well, your position is understandable Jah, but you have to see both sides... 1st, I don't think anyone was saying that they were trying to shoot the American planes/ Helicopters. They were an unidentified group on the ground that unexpectedly opened fire into the sky while a bunch of American warplanes, on a tactical strike mission, were in the air above... The number of bombs dropped is put at 5 total, there was an American 'scout' on the ground giving target info to the planes, he saw 4 bombs hit their targets and one fall into the uninhabited desert nearby... none of that was near the wedding...

Do you think any of the individual soldiers are proud to have killed up a bunch of civilians? Do you think they are recieving praise from their peers?

[jah]

yes. i often pick arguments knowing too little about the subject. usually the subjects are ones i can argue without all the facts though. like this one, although i wouldnt have came down so hard on the situation if i had known that they were being fired on, i still stand by my original theory that they should be more careful and should be punished. youre right, the soldiers probably feel terrible (well, knowing the military personel, some might be proud) and i dont hold them so responsible. but look out the militarys track record:

how many mistakes did we make in iraq? (again i dont know a whole lot about the iraq situation. especially since i was much younger when most of tha went on) didne we bomb hospitals that were supposed to be chemical weapons labs? dropping a bomb is something that you must do very carefully. teh research must be done properly. theres no excuse!!!

[Smart]

well... things can only change at a certain rate... in Vietnam, countless villages, and villagers were burned to death in Napalm raids... war has existed since time began, it has never been pretty, but the fact is the American Armed Forces are the best equiped to win any armed conflict with the lowest amount of collateral damge... this shit happens, it always has, everyone is trying to make it better all the time but until it's robots fighting on Mt. Everest... even then, how many Sherpas will have to die before we realize that war is wrong?

[Pistol]

Yes during Iraq we the US made mistakes. We also lost some US troops due to friendly fire. So mistakes aren't always on the enemies side. The other problem is that Saddam Hussein is such a piece of shit that he would hide missiles, chemical weapons in or near the hospitals or schools. Intelligence see's a building with lots of troop movement and large arms, etc.

[imported_Klypse]

Originally posted by Smart
They were an unidentified group on the ground that unexpectedly opened fire into the sky while a bunch of American warplanes, on a tactical strike mission, were in the air above... The number of bombs dropped is put at 5 total, there was an American 'scout' on the ground giving target info to the planes, he saw 4 bombs hit their targets and one fall into the uninhabited desert nearby... none of that was near the wedding...

Do you think any of the individual soldiers are proud to have killed up a bunch of civilians? Do you think they are recieving praise from their peers?

"Survivors said that members of a wedding party were firing weapons into the air in celebration at the time of the accident. " - cnn
"Officials could not describe what the AC-130 crew may have been able to see during the operation. Sources said the crew had no way to determine if the people were civilians or enemy forces, and it is not clear if they were able to see any children." -cnn

So the scout on the ground could see guns but he couldn't see the children?
And smart you'd be suprised at the amount of praise a soldier gets for killing any, "sand nigger." Its not like the movies, when a soldier gets a moment of truth and sheds a tear. And at first the U.S. troops said they attacked because they saw anti aircraft artillery at the site, they then changed it saying that the anti aircraft was found ten miles from the wedding scene.

[imported_Klypse]

And since when, if you cant tell whether or not your target is a civillian or a target, are you allowed to attack it?

[Smart]

when you are fired upon

[imported_Klypse]

naw man, when someone shoots at you, you don't kill the first person you see. especially when they weren't even shooting at you.

[Smart]

Originally posted by Klypse
So the scout on the ground could see guns but he couldn't see the children?

children lack the eyecatching effect of muzzle flash... no matter what, at night a 2 foot flame is gonna draw the eye much more than a human...

[Smart]

Originally posted by Klypse
naw man, when someone shoots at you, you don't kill the first person you see. especially when they weren't even shooting at you.

it's WAR... these people were discharging weapons in a WARZONE!.. If ever there was a time for 'shoot first ask questions later'...

[jah]

true hussein hides the shit in schools and places like that, but the US knows this. it doesnt matter if its wrong on saddams part, its wrong on the US part too. since hte US knows that he does shit like that, they should either investigate their target and make sure its all bad guys or weapons, or at least make sure schools out. something. saddam also walks around in big groups of women and children but you dont see the US blasting into those. and anyway, what right do we have to bomb someone for making weapons? the US thinks they might use them on us because they fuck with all these other countries too much and bully them around. so we dont even give them the right to defend themselves and keep bombing them if they need to steer the focus from another skandal back at home. thats what im talking about and then say, "they were in the no fly zone." haha. that shit makes me laugh (if i wasnt stoned itd merely piss me off.) if the US would stay out of other peoples business they wouldnt need to worry about countries attacking them for no reason. the US is the only country that does that nowadays quite frequently. once in a while a european country might join in for support or something. anyway, yeah, the US needs to check their shit closer. (i should have just said that last sentence huh?)

[jah]

Originally posted by Smart


it's WAR... these people were discharging weapons in a WARZONE!.. If ever there was a time for 'shoot first ask questions later'...

even if it was a war zone, it must have been populated because people dont go out to have a wedding in a war zone. i highly doubt they went to see the artilery because they didnt have any fireworks..... so, if the US knew it was a populated zone they shouldnt have fired into whether they were being fired at or not if it wasnt their target.

[I Luv Roo]

the arguments just went from dumb to dumber. Although I have to say I was entertained for most of my shift...

I think I'll go over to E!Online and find out the latest fashion faux-pas now...

[Smart]

uh, no, if you fire in the general direction of American troops you will, indeed MUST, be considered an enemy... in fact, by firing upon US troops you automatically make yourself a target of opportunity

[jah]

also smart, where are you getting your information from? american media? internet? just curious cus american media is full of shit and the internet can have a lot of false information. im just sayin cus if they said on the news that there were people firing guns up in there it doesnt mean there was. have you seen that movie with tommy lee jones and samuel l jackson where theyre marines inthe middle east and they fire into the protesters in front of an american embassy killing millions of civilians (women and children) and they cover it up by showing footage of them all having guns and firing at the soldiers and everything? that kinda shit happens all the time. im not saying there werent people firing up at the planes. i dont know afghani customs or anything so they very well could have been. just a possibility....

[Pistol]

A camp outside in the middle of nowhere with people shooting guns in the direction of US Military planes.

your first thought Al Qaeda camp regrouping or wedding?

[jah]

yeah youre right there smart. i probably shouldnt have typed those last two posts cus i think some pretty wierd shit when im stoned (by the way i wasnt tryin to say you didnt know your shit in that last one i was just sayin....) but whatever, im just on here cus im bored anyway, may as well make an ass of myself.

[jah]

Originally posted by Pistol
A camp outside in the middle of nowhere with people shooting guns in the direction of US Military planes.

your first thought Al Qaeda camp regrouping or wedding?


hahaha. to tell you the truth i didnt eve know it was a camp. fuck it......

the US is fucked up, get over it

[Smart]

just FYI, I formulate my opinions based on a wide variety of domestic and international sources, both news agencies and personal friends

Unfortunately, in the wedding incedent, there's only really one source for info right now, and that's the White House... however, the mistake has been admitted, the cause is being investigated and it doesn't stink of cover-up AT ALL, it appears that this is simply the tragedy of war...

[KaBar]

There have been so many posts and twists and turns since my last post, I'm not going to try and go back and pick up where I left off at 0400 or whatever time it was. It's turned out to be a great thread, though. One point I'd like to interject here about Amsterdam and indentured prostitution (indentured anything in the U.S. is illegal by the way, under laws prohibiting "involuntary servitude" i.e. slavery.)

The first African slaves that arrived in the U.S. arrived in DUTCH ships in what, 1633? The Dutch were colonizing southern Africa in the late 1600's (Afrikaans--the 2nd language of South Africa, is Dutch-based.) They brought African slaves to various parts of the world, including the British colonies in North America, Cuba, Hispianola (Haiti and the Dominican Republic), British Guiana, Brazil and other parts of the world. So did slavers from a lot of other countries, including the British Colonies and the United States, way back in the 1830s. These slaves from the Dutch were probably war captives from one tribe raiding another for slaves to sell. Slavery was being practiced in Africa by a whole bunch of people before the Europeans got into the act, especially the North African Muslims, who considered anybody not a Muslim to be a barbarian one step above an animal. The black Africans were usually animists, which, to the Muslim eye, made them fair game. And of course, the Europeans practiced fuedalism, which is a form of involuntary servitude. I guess my point is that is we start discussing slavery, pretty quickly the finger of blame begins to move beyond the "you cruel white people in the American South."
When I was in the Phillipines back in the late '70s, you could contract with a bar owner to lease a room (many bars there are the ground floor of a hotel) that came equipped with a teenaged girl. (I'd like to make it clear that I didn't DO this, I just observed it.) They cooked, they cleaned, they did whatever--including serving as a bed partner. Sort of like a super room service deal. I don't know what the girls got out of it, but the guys that did do this usually "tipped" them for sexual favors, although my understanding was that tipping was optional, but like any other service, if you want "service with a smile" you'd best tip the help. The girls were very young. The few guys I knew who contracted for this type of hotel room deliberately selected very young girls--maybe 14 or 15 years old. (Of course, the men were only 18 or 19 themselves.) It might not be slavery, but it was too close to it for comfort. Sort of a form of involuntary sexual servitude, I guess you'd call it. The men never paid the girls, always the bar owner.

[jah]

i was in thailand before i came over to australia and there are still TONS of brothels and escort services and freelance pimps and whatnot. i dont see it as slavery so much over there though. a lot of women there prostitute themselves for a couple years to have enough to go to school or live nicely and then quit. i dont think they see it as doing something bad necessarily. i still felt bad when i saw a 18 year old girl with a 65 year old man but theydidnt look unhappy at all. i think they tend to get treated really nice fromthese old white guys that comein from other countries because theyre so beautiful and sweet and these old dudes have never had a chance with anyone so hot. and they dont even cost too much. i mean, for how classy and pretty they are. its like 50 USD$ for a day and night with them or something. theyre all dressed like divas with cell phones and everything so it seems like they take care of themselves pretty well. some families do pimp out their daughters too to make some extra cash. its pretty fucked up but it just doesnt seem so much like the prostitution scene around the rest of the world. especially the ones that just hang in bars and try to hustle drinks. they seem to enjoy their job. but yeah, the dutch transported more slaves from africa than any other country (im pretty sure). theyve still got all the diamonds over there. i dont think the blame falls on anyone in particular that was involved in the slave trade. anyone involved (supporting it) was guilty. americans, dutch, brits, portugees, spanish, french, muslims.... whoever was dealing or owning a slave can share some of the responsibility (what responsibility though?).



peace

[imported_FROSTY]

USA is whats rong with the world today....
learn your history before you start pointing fingers. 3 of our treasured buildings get hit with airplanes and we freek out.

have any of you ever heard of HIROSHIMA!
perhaps NAGASAKI rings a bell!

[jah]

what the fuck are "fingers"? by the way, weve been discussing how gay the US is for a long fuckin time. that arguments kinda over with. you can read page 3, 4, and 5 and youll see....

[KaBar]

Frosty, I wrote a long reply to this, but I decided to delete it, and see if you really intend to stand by the above statement.

[Esai]

Its fucked up how the US is all gung ho about making the taliban(and the world for that matter) pay for any anti US talk sp thoroughly as to bomb the shit out of various countries. yet they aint doin shit about homeboy who was responsible for the anthrax cuz he's white an a military guy. bunch of hypocritical bullshit, like the us refusing to obey u.n. human rights laws, and demanding immunity from these laws.

[KaBar]

The U.S. is a sovereign nation. We are not under ANYBODY'S authority except our own. The UN has NO AUTHORITY OVER ANYTHING WE DO OR DON'T DO. Fuck the UN. We bomb and invade nations that offend us or harm our allies. Anybody that doesn't like it, FUCK THEM. Let them bring their weak ass shit on. Both the Taliban and Al Qaida are going to eventually all be killed and/or imprisoned, even if it takes twenty years, or more. People that want to support them are free to do so. Don't snivel if you wind up being interrogated by the Egyptian secret police with a fence charger on your nuts, though. There is no such thing as international law that has authority over the United States. Occasionally, our stupid ass Presidents sign treaties that supposedly limit our autonomy, but they are not worth the paper they are written on. If some stupid bitch country wants to try us on, they find out pretty quick that they made a big mistake. The only countries that we support are our allies. Anybody that is not our ally, FUCK 'EM.

Don't imagine that the captured Al Qaida/Taliban prisoners are all safely in dog cages in Guantanamo Bay. Who is to say who got captured and who did not? Anybody the United States wants real information from gets quietly handed over to the Turks or the Egyptians. When they are done, they shoot him in the back of the head and bury the body out in the boondocks. We ain't playin' with these terrorists. They mess with us, they get the full treatment. Military tribunals? I'm laughing. The only trial they're likely to get is trial by cattle prod.

Next on the hit list: Iraq. Get ready, Sadaam; you cocksucker.

[Mr. Mang]

funny you mention saddam . . .

"Throughout the 1980s, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control shipped 14 different biological materials with military potential to Iraq. Fourteen.

Oh yes, the '80s ... back when feathered hair and glam rock and Saddam was our best friend. Or is that now? I can't remember ... our enemies change almost as fast as our fashion statements these days. In '88, Saddam gassed about 5,000 Kurds on the northern border of Iraq. Men, women, and children. We didn't make any noise or rattle any sabers at the time. We didn't brand him a member of the 'axis of evil.' Nope, we actually increased weapons sales to Iraq AFTER the attack.

In fact, if you want to get historical about it maybe we should look at exactly how Iran and Iraq got in the position they're currently in. Like, for instance, the fact that we armed both of them to the teeth. That in the '80s we were so happy to see them killing each other that we sold weapons to both sides."

just some background info from guerrillanews.com

(http://www.guerrillanews.com/war_on_terror...ism/doc312.html (http://www.guerrillanews.com/war_on_terrorism/doc312.html))

[Esai]

Its funny Kabar, how many Us supporters talk so much abou the freedom of our soveriegnity and freedom yet when its another country its ridiculous. What if Afghanistan had chose to support its individual freedom as a nation and refused to help find Bin Laden? would that be okay, the US is harboring many crooks being wanted by other countries(including nazis). Its seems like irony when all these patriots cry freedom and democracy when the US' actions are involved, but then do a 180 when it involves anyone else. Not to mention how this govt is destroying our personal civil rights in the name of 911, wasnt the patriot act brought out a little too soon to not be suspicious?If the uS is truly in the role of providing democracy and treating all fairly then why would it be a problem to engage in a process which treats all countries with equality and fairness?

[Smart]

The US isn't really interested in just going around killing people, we want money. I'm pretty sure it comes part and parcel with the deal, if we liberate your shithole country, you owe us big on the trade policy. Kuwait fer instance. Sovereignty is an entirely differnt thing, that's when theres a government that everybody likes... We aren't gonna invade France anytime soon, unless I find that talking fish. Sovereignty isn't determined by the US, it's more like a UN thing, but even countries that aren't UN partners can be sovereign nations.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that if you buy an island, you can declare yourself a sovereign nation through some beaureucratic method, you might have to pay dues, but... you could do anything you want on your island, legal dope, hookers, gambling, firing range w/ full auto weapons, you could buy a tank... ANYWAY, until you try to export your dope, hookers, or whatever, nobody can fuck with you, once you enter the world of international trade then you become subject to economic pressures, the REAL war. The war of economics never ends, casualties are less apparent but fully existant.

Physical war is such a last resort, and so many of you seem to view the US as this bloodthirsty monster. Maybe because the only war most of you are old enough to remember cost us so few casualties... Hundreds of thousands of people alive today fully realize the human costs of sending family, or going, to some shitty paddy or seedy little town to die. That has never been a popular idea. It also seems that none of you are looking at this from that standpoint either, our cost of lives... it's about our ironfisted tactics in some jerkwater country, too weak and stupid to defend themselves... and then a miracle occurs and... presto change-o... terrorism seemss justifiable in your minds.

[imported_Klypse]

Originally posted by KaBar
The U.S. is a sovereign nation. We are not under ANYBODY'S authority except our own. The UN has NO AUTHORITY OVER ANYTHING WE DO OR DON'T DO. Fuck the UN. We bomb and invade nations that offend us or harm our allies. Anybody that doesn't like it, FUCK THEM. Let them bring their weak ass shit on. Both the Taliban and Al Qaida are going to eventually all be killed and/or imprisoned, even if it takes twenty years, or more. People that want to support them are free to do so. Don't snivel if you wind up being interrogated by the Egyptian secret police with a fence charger on your nuts, though. There is no such thing as international law that has authority over the United States. Occasionally, our stupid ass Presidents sign treaties that supposedly limit our autonomy, but they are not worth the paper they are written on. If some stupid bitch country wants to try us on, they find out pretty quick that they made a big mistake. The only countries that we support are our allies. Anybody that is not our ally, FUCK 'EM.

Don't imagine that the captured Al Qaida/Taliban prisoners are all safely in dog cages in Guantanamo Bay. Who is to say who got captured and who did not? Anybody the United States wants real information from gets quietly handed over to the Turks or the Egyptians. When they are done, they shoot him in the back of the head and bury the body out in the boondocks. We ain't playin' with these terrorists. They mess with us, they get the full treatment. Military tribunals? I'm laughing. The only trial they're likely to get is trial by cattle prod.

Next on the hit list: Iraq. Get ready, Sadaam; you cocksucker.
Word he's right. No one can fuck with the U.S, even if we fuck with them. Yo if U.S. wants to fuck a country over for money, fuck them, we'll do it, because the U.S. has been OG for years. We'll take this niggas to a fucking holding cell and interrogate them. What the fuck are you talking about you senile bastard? You keep saying the same bullshit over and over again, and it makes no god damn sense. But, whatever your entitled to your opinion. As long as you can have pride in something, and the government pays for your viagra, your views won't change. Your a upper class doctor though, so I guess i can't be too harsh, your views are brought on by ignorance and money.

[Smart]

Originally posted by Klypse
Your a upper class doctor though, so I guess i can't be too harsh, your views are brought on by ignorance and money.

I always wondered where KaBar go his views... huh, ignorance and money, who'da thunk.

[KaBar]

Yeah, that's my story all right, definately from the priveleged classes. I shouldn't tell the truth on here, too many of you guys aren't ready for it. And I was like that when I was a kid too, so I'm not blaming you, and I'm really not surprised.

What keeps this nation free from outside attackers is the U.S. armed forces. We are fools for letting just anybody and everybody immigrate to our country. NO OTHER NATION ON EARTH DOES THAT. You think you can just drive into Mexico like you would take a trip to Colorado? Not fucking hardly. There are Mexican Army checkpoints about 25 miles into the interior. Sure you can come spend your money for a day in a border town with minimal hassle, but if you go into the interior, you better have your papers and permiso straight, or you are going straight to a military lock-up. If they catch you skipping the border checkpoint and trying to walk into Mexico, you will be arrested and fucked over bigtime. Illegal immigration is a ONE-WAY DEAL with Mexico. They hate the illegal Guatamalans who come north into Mexico looking for work, and mistreat them terribly, beat them, rob them, rape women. And I'm talking about the cops and the Army here.
And the cops and the Army are the best possibility. A Mexican-American journalist on a walking tour of northern Mexico was robbed and murdered by some Indios. Some friends of my wife, from work, were robbed of their car, their money and all their possessions on their honeymoon in Mexico, by the police. The rest of the world thinks Americans are so naive and trusting. We are known all over the world as easy marks. Wimps. Pussies. Not street wise. Americans in Italy get mobbed by street urchins and pickpocketed because they know that the Americans will not hurt them, even if they are being robbed.

We have a world-wide reputation for being soft as shit on crime. You know what happens in Singapore if you get caught smuggling heroin, even a little bit? They HANG you. With a ROPE. Where is Amnesty International when Thailand is hanging Australian tourists?

The United States has 270 million firearms in the hands of the civilian population. Just our licensed deer hunters alone number 33 million. That number is bigger than the FIVE LARGEST ARMIES ON EARTH PUT TOGETHER. We need to stop being so god damned soft, and kick these fucking ungrateful bastards out of our country. They come here, and they see a nation of prey. Time to wake up. Time to get real.

Some of you guys have a totally unrealistic viewpoint of the world and our place in it. I got no sympathy for our enemies. If we take them alive, they definately are going to talk.

Iraq is the third largest army in the world. When we finish with them, they are going to be "non-existant" as a military force. Even if we have to bomb Baghdad to a smoking hole in the ground, Iraq is going to cease being a problem. And we'll eventually get around to all the rest of these piss-ant little anti-American dictators, too.

I can't believe the government deported 1500 Middle Eastern criminals. What the fuck were they thinking? They should have gone straight to detention centers like Krone, where we are holding hundreds of the Cuban criminals Castro sent in the Mariel boatlift. They are held "indefinately". (Read that "permenantly.") Or, we should export them to Turkey, a trusted ally, where we could build prisons for a fraction of the cost we pay here. They could be "detained" forever, and the Turks would be glad for the work.
If ANYBODY fucks with the United States, they better hope to hell we don't take them alive. Because they will pay, and pay. The only solution is for them to stay off our shit list. Sadaam Hussein is right at the very top. Just look for it.

[jah]

the only reason i can think anyone would want to migrate to mexico would be to escape prosecution.

[Mr. Mang]

agreed

[Smart]

Originally posted by jah
the only reason i can think anyone would want to migrate to mexico would be to escape prosecution.

well, maybe you'er not very creative...:D

[Mr. Mang]

i heard the water is fantastic

[Smart]

try the goat tortilla, muy bueno!

[Mr. Mang]

Originally posted by Smart
try the goat tortilla, muy bueno!

:lol: :lol:

a true 'lol' . . maybe cause it's 4:30 am?

[KaBar]

I can think of a couple of reasons, right off the bat.

a.) It costs substantially less to live there, so if you are on a fixed income, you can live a lot better. Well, cheaper anyway.

b.) One prefers a country with no Bill of Rights.

c.) You want to live in a Spanish-speaking country.

[jah]

actually, i like mexico quite a bit too. ive been there 4 times and ive had a blast every time. i just said that cus as far as people moving to mexico from other countries goes its just not really happenin. in other words. they dont have to worry abou that problem. viva el mexico

[Pistol]

Originally posted by jah
actually, i like mexico quite a bit too. ive been there 4 times and ive had a blast every time. i just said that cus as far as people moving to mexico from other countries goes its just not really happenin. in other words. they dont have to worry abou that problem. viva el mexico

dude your probably going as far as Rosarito or some other spring break hangout. Possibly a tourist spot like Mazatlan, Cancun, a pyramid, or areas on the beach that are leased to retired US citizens. But if you get away from the tourist areas or if you actually lived there with the locals you'd probably change your mind.

[jah]

dude, you have no idea what youre talking about. the last time i went to mexico was when i was 14 with my dad, his girlfriend, and her daughters. my dads a total hippie so he never goes to the tourist areas. his girlfriend talked him into staying in cabo san lucas, san jose del cabo, and puerta vallarta for a little while (out of the 2 times we went with them) but everywhere else we went was out in the fuckin cuts!! mostly in baja though. still dope.

[jah]

by the way, ive never been to any of those places you mentioned.