IRAQ [Archive] - THE WRITERS FORUM - THE GRAFFITI DESTINATION

BROWNer

08-07-2002, 04:03 AM

it seems increasingly likely the war on iraq is right around the corner...
so, are you pro-invasion or no? reasons??
recently baghdad invited a special team from the us congress to come and check out
all their supposed weapon sites...then washington turns around and
dismisses the invitation. wasn't this whole built up murmur about
their supposed stockpile of weapons of mass destruction?
so, hey, if you're gonna go fuck with a large population, don't you
think its wise to make sure your reasons are legitimate? take the
fuckin' opportunity and check it out right?
i'll tell you..when georgey came out and told the world that he
ordered the cia to infiltrate and put a hit on saddam(while 'national security' was being thrown about for everything from enron to what kind of socks cheney was wearing on the 11th), it was for
one reason only....make the iraqi's paranoid, then they'd reject
weapons inspectors and give the us their war.
i see these so called 'experts' on cnn or whatever,
and i just can't believe the shit these guys spew. its ridiculous.
i realize that resources are a necessity, and that the us is, arguably, doing
exactly what some may say it needs to do, but this is just fuckt...
i remember when i was alot younger, it just never occured to me
that when i was the age i'm at now that there would still be wars going
on everywhere. i thought that, hey, this is fuckin' the 90's man, we're
growing, becoming more civilzed. christ...what a zittly herb.
so....are you guys happy with this shit? does it seem inevitable to you?
do you just sit there and think, my god, somehow i am supposed to be
able to say no to this, but, fuck, i can't, its useless? and whats worse is
you're going to pay for it. just like you're paying for warplanes launching
air to surface missiles into neighborhoods in israel.
get used to it. it's only the start of an effort to consolidate
oil resources all over the middle east. after iraq its gonna be iran,
then the saudi's. just think how far this could go if bush 'wins' a second
term...

dahighlifdhl

08-07-2002, 04:06 AM

first

they should invade and take care of saddam
right away

BROWNer

08-07-2002, 04:10 AM

and?
back up your statements with reason.

boogie hands

08-07-2002, 04:44 AM

i think all you need to do is look at our economy....the answer is right there....about the only thing we can afford to do is jump into some ill planned seat of the pants invasion which is going to do absolutly nothing but push our country farther into debt and delay the problem for another 2 or 3 years....

we need to apologize to everyone, shut the fuck up and worry about our own problems......look at canada!!!! are they dealing with this shit???

Smart

08-07-2002, 05:18 AM

I'm pretty anti-invasion in general, I mean I don't think we nede to take over Cuba, but, in this case...

Sadam is a problem, the invitation for inspection is just a stalling tactic... I fully believe he's got chemical and bio weapons, shit he was using VX on his own people in 89, now he's sucking up to the Kurds too. He's a despot, and despots are best dead... We ought to flatten him and all of the statues he built in his own honor and then turn a glaring eye towards Saudi Arabia... Honestly, I think we should invade, conquer, and annex the place. This would offset our costs by giving us a big ass oil deposit and loosen the OPEC strangle hold on the global petroleum supply.

btw Boogie, our economy is fine, don't believe the hype.

boogie hands

08-07-2002, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by Smart
btw Boogie, our economy is fine, don't believe the hype.

im believing it....i guess the younger investors really dont need to worry, im more worried about my parents because lets face it, things are going to shit right now and i cant see a silver lining anywhere....especially with all this talk of more war....

it is true we need to invade iraq but its also true that if we do its going to be a long term conflict and were going to need more of a plan than we had when we toppled the taliban....its a lose/lose situation i guess....especially with the administration we have now....

TT- can i come stay with you??

imported_garcia_vega

08-07-2002, 05:43 AM

i think the invasion is wrong. we're gonna go into that country and kill more innocent people, not saddam hussein. i guarantee we won't get him. you don't really hear much about osama bin laden these days--what happened to killing him? maybe he's dead, maybe not. where's the news report saying we killed osama or completely dismantled the al queda organization? you don't even hear about it on the news anymore because there's not a lot of fuel for the propoganda machine coming out of afghanistan these days. and say we kill saddam, but one of his several insane fanatic sons makes it out alive. all we're doing is breeding a generation of muslim radicals who are going to hate us more than the previous generation. so basically, we're gonna go in there, blow shit up, pat ourselves on the back, make sure we keep the oil situation in check, and leave the people who saddam oppressed in an equally shitty situation. we're just going to remind them why they hate us. so what's the alternative to an invasion? i don't know, but i do know that we have a lot of money tied up in israel and in oil, so it's gonna go down whether it's right or wrong. i just think it's fucked up and i hope i'm enjoying myself in those last few seconds before the world suddenly vaporizes around me.

and another thing i forgot to mention--did anyone read that article in vice magazine about the bio-diesel fuel? there's some guy powering his car on used fryer grease and supposedly anybody can mix this stuff up in a bathtub. the point is, the government has us brainwashed thinking if we don't have the middle east's oil life is over. that's because we've had 2 generations of oil millionaires as presidents. this is all about money, not stopping a corrupt leader. i feel like average citizens of america and iraq are just pawns in a chess game right now.

ElectricitySucks

08-07-2002, 05:46 AM

better safe then sorry

23578

08-07-2002, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by Smart
I'm pretty anti-invasion in general, I mean I don't think we nede to take over Cuba, but, in this case...

Sadam is a problem, the invitation for inspection is just a stalling tactic... I fully believe he's got chemical and bio weapons, shit he was using VX on his own people in 89, now he's sucking up to the Kurds too. He's a despot, and despots are best dead... We ought to flatten him and all of the statues he built in his own honor and then turn a glaring eye towards Saudi Arabia... Honestly, I think we should invade, conquer, and annex the place. This would offset our costs by giving us a big ass oil deposit and loosen the OPEC strangle hold on the global petroleum supply.

btw Boogie, our economy is fine, don't believe the hype.

Ok, except for the "I think we should invade. . ." part, I agree with you fully. He's calling for renewal of inspections, but on his own terms, no, I don't think so. I'm still surprised this hasn't happened yet, we should have taken him over during the gulf war. I don't know what I'd do, this guy is pretty pissed off at us, and there is not much that's going to sway him from further terrorism, but sanctions (especially) and invasions are definately out unless we can pin something on him directly apart from threats.

imported_El Mamerro

08-07-2002, 07:07 AM

[img]http://www.haas-abc.org/images/ABC02/Asimo.jpg'>

The silver lining.

ledzep

08-07-2002, 08:24 AM

we here in Nicaragua will sit back and enjoy the show, seeing as how we are a small poor country which nobody can locate.

and the US thinks its the leader of the world? pfft please.

CHEWBAKALLAH

08-07-2002, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by garcia_vega
i think the invasion is wrong. we're gonna go into that country and kill more innocent people, not saddam hussein. i guarantee we won't get him. you don't really hear much about osama bin laden these days--what happened to killing him? maybe he's dead, maybe not. where's the news report saying we killed osama or completely dismantled the al queda organization? you don't even hear about it on the news anymore because there's not a lot of fuel for the propoganda machine coming out of afghanistan these days. and say we kill saddam, but one of his several insane fanatic sons makes it out alive. all we're doing is breeding a generation of muslim radicals who are going to hate us more than the previous generation. so basically, we're gonna go in there, blow shit up, pat ourselves on the back, make sure we keep the oil situation in check, and leave the people who saddam oppressed in an equally shitty situation. we're just going to remind them why they hate us. so what's the alternative to an invasion? i don't know, but i do know that we have a lot of money tied up in israel and in oil, so it's gonna go down whether it's right or wrong. i just think it's fucked up and i hope i'm enjoying myself in those last few seconds before the world suddenly vaporizes around me.

and another thing i forgot to mention--did anyone read that article in vice magazine about the bio-diesel fuel? there's some guy powering his car on used fryer grease and supposedly anybody can mix this stuff up in a bathtub. the point is, the government has us brainwashed thinking if we don't have the middle east's oil life is over. that's because we've had 2 generations of oil millionaires as presidents. this is all about money, not stopping a corrupt leader. i feel like average citizens of america and iraq are just pawns in a chess game right now.
100% agreed

I Luv Roo

08-07-2002, 09:48 AM

What's the alternative? I'll tell you:

Leave Iraq the-fuck alone. Plus, why would Saddam agree to the US's terms anyway? They are doing this so there is NO option but to start a war. This is how these people make their money. There's NO other reason to it, so don't be fooled.

Start taking care of our people and increasing funding on education and healthcare. Start promoting a positive peace-perpetuating consciousness, and stop continuing the cycle of power, control, greed and violence.

And check out this article about Donald Rumsfeld:
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0802-01.htm

SE4_2002

08-07-2002, 09:54 AM

Should of finished off Sadam the first time around then this wouldn`t be an issue..

capindikfays

08-07-2002, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by SE4_2002
Should of finished off Sadam the first time around then this wouldn`t be an issue..

i agree, if we would have offed him back in the day, we wouldn't be

feeling stupid today

- a concerned bloodskull

neversaydie

08-07-2002, 10:02 AM

what's funny is that you know the us has it's own chemical weapons. texas should just secede, we have our own oil.

I Luv Roo

08-07-2002, 10:03 AM

stupid naive idiot fools.

SE4_2002

08-07-2002, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by Smart

btw Boogie, our economy is fine, don't believe the hype.

Trust me your economy is far from fine, I work in Broking and deal with it every day, the Euro is worh more than the dollar at the mo..Look at Dow Jones and London`s Ftse100 going down shit creek!!

CHEWBAKALLAH

08-07-2002, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by sirmanofslur

i agree, if we would have offed him back in the day, we wouldn't be

feeling stupid today

- a concerned bloodskull
typical american attitudes, dont you ever question the real reason everyone hates this country?

I Luv Roo

08-07-2002, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by neversaydie
what's funny is that you know the us has it's own chemical weapons. texas should just secede, we have our own oil.

I agree. Texas OUT of America.

neversaydie

08-07-2002, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by I Luv Roo

I agree. Texas OUT of America.
even better californians out of texas

I Luv Roo

08-07-2002, 10:22 AM

texans out of New Mexico.

neversaydie

08-07-2002, 10:24 AM

new mexico given back to the mexicans

socrates

08-07-2002, 10:24 AM

Don't kill sadamm= I'll be on 12oz.
Kill Sadamm= I'll be on 12oz.

The outcome doesn't matter it matters how we get to that outcome.

I Luv Roo

08-07-2002, 10:34 AM

America given back to the indians.

ArtvandaL

08-07-2002, 10:42 AM

people talk politics and know jack shit about politics

neversaydie

08-07-2002, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by I Luv Roo
America given back to the indians.
which is an example of why america had no buisness attacking iraq in the first place. to free kuwait my ass.

GLIK$

08-07-2002, 11:02 AM

I think its time for my ignorent Middle Class American response.

KILL 'EM ALL!!!!!! NUKE 'EM!! FUCK YEAH!

Smart

08-07-2002, 11:11 AM

wait... there's a NEW Mexico?

I Luv Roo

08-07-2002, 11:17 AM

yuck yuck

Kr430n5_666

08-07-2002, 01:16 PM

[img]http://epc.buffalo.edu/images/bkcovers/hjr.jpg'>

BROWNer

08-07-2002, 02:29 PM

this would be one speculative scenario of many (negative ones):
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-...-376516,00.html (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-376516,00.html)

mental invalid

08-07-2002, 03:31 PM

i cant tell if saddam is a legit threat or not......if he is, then action needs to be taken...but this get tricky fast and ofcourse you have the whole quandry of "the next day"....we are currently nation building in afghanistan(not a good job), and bush is kidding himself if he thinks itll be easier with iraq....look the fact of the matter is that saddam is not a nice guy, we all know that....but then again our sanctions havent exactly helped the people get off their feet either....to be honest i dont mind ousting opressive governments, ofcourse there is a fine line between ramming our own beliefs down peoples throats and relieving people of oppresion....but we really need to step up to the plate and realize what as a nation are we gonna do for the people....this is not just about protecting our freedoms and two car garages, its about saving people from the hell they live in...i really do believe that in the long run the people of afghanistan will be better off.....and i think the same can be said for the people of iraq...but the estimates in cost are about 70-90 billion with troop deployment ranging from anywhere to 1.5 to 20 years....last gulf war cost 60 billion, and 80% was picked up by foreign countries.....basically with the current affairs of the economy, middle east, afghanistan, and india/pakistan, right now we should focus on solving those issues....i think saddam is a classic case of meglomania....and as such his power and control is more sacred to him then taking on the US....so i think we have a window of opportunity to address the other issues...in the mean time, we develop a plan for the day after, dropping bombs is the easy part, its cleaning up the shit after that is hard.....and we let the UN handle the inspections, if saddam chooses to play the game it will only help to build a case against him....

its just i have no idea who to fucking trust anymore.......

T.T Boy

08-07-2002, 03:46 PM

trust the canadians.

boogie, im on vacation right now, but you can have my room, my brother will get you at the airport.

mental invalid

08-07-2002, 10:09 PM

bump for something beyond tits and masturbation......

BROWNer

08-08-2002, 02:31 PM

"i cant tell if saddam is a legit threat or not.....
its just i have no idea who to fucking trust anymore......."-roe

i'm sayin'...
i know for sure i don't trust the US gov't:dazed:
anybody ever heard of scott ritter?
he was the head of UN inspections for awhile until
he realized that he and the inspections were being
used as a front for intelligence. this would be a guy
with the expert opinion...> 'iraqi weapons of
mass destruction are largely built on a framework of US
lies'. of course you could just toss his views to the side and
convince yourself he's a disgruntled employee.
and is blair ever going to show this irefutable proof he
says he has of such weapons? i mean, its been since
january..........so..
blair, stop bein' bush's bitch and give up the report.

back up for mams, cuz i know he loves these type of
threads;)

GeorgeW.Bush

08-08-2002, 02:34 PM

[img]http://www.davidicke.net/theylive/humor/bushrep.gif'>
"huh?"

BROWNer

08-09-2002, 03:12 AM

'They call war an art, but it isn't, it largely consists in outwitting
people, robbing widows and orphans, and inflicting suffering on
the helpless for one's own end - and that's not war: it's business.'
-k.roberts

postaholic

08-09-2002, 04:28 AM

we need to wipe out the whole middle east...

fuck um.

Smart

08-09-2002, 04:39 AM

Originally posted by BROWNer
'They call war an art, but it isn't, it largely consists in outwitting
people, robbing widows and orphans, and inflicting suffering on
the helpless for one's own end - and that's not war: it's business.'
-k.roberts

this quote is utter bullshit because it tries to make some grand point by obviously glossing over facts... most importantly, "for one's own gain" is TOTALLY misleading and out of line, if it really addressed business it would read "for one's own FINANCIAL gain" and if it really addressed war it would read "for one COUNTRY'S POLITICAL gain"

as it stands, it's just some guiy trying to say something smart and provocative by not really saying anything.

GeorgeW.Bush

08-09-2002, 04:46 AM

if it really addressed war it would read "for one COUNTRY'S POLITICAL gain"
dude, how is our COUNTRY gaining anything from war? Its the social elite who are going to gain from the oil thats getting stolen, by selling it to us, and therefore: it is a business.

Smart

08-09-2002, 04:52 AM

if you can't see the obvious political advantages, for the US and everyone, of a world without Sadaam then you don't even need to part of this conversation...

also, we already have a George Dubya Bush around here so you probably need to think about changing your screen name...

Smart

08-09-2002, 04:53 AM

oh, and don't call me dude.

GeorgeW.Bush

08-09-2002, 04:58 AM

okay, say we go and get Sadaam, who by the way has done nothing to merit an invasion, we aren't going to straight find and the kill the guy, no. We are going to rape the country of all its worth, sell it to americans at an elevated price, build up huge corporations, make the rich richer, and set us up for another WTC.

GeorgeW.Bush

08-09-2002, 05:00 AM

oh, and don't call me dude.
I think you've been spending too much time on the internet, let those pent up sexual frustrations out.

Smart

08-09-2002, 05:17 AM

Originally posted by GeorgeW.Bush

I think you've been spending too much time on the internet, let those pent up sexual frustrations out. [/b]

I think you've never even had sex, and I now believe you don't know anything about ANYTHING...

"Rape the country for all it's worth"

What worth?!

"sell it to americans at an elevated price"

Sell WHAT?

"build up huge corporations, make the rich richer, and set us up for another WTC."

right, well, I'm sorry your stuff isn't as new or shiny as your neighbors but compared to the average Iraqi, you're goddamned Rockafeller... Not because of US/UN imposed sanctions but because the leader of the country takes ALL the income produced by every business, puts it in his bank accounts and provides his people with minimal payouts... It's not that Iraq can't afford to feed it's people, it that tSadam keeps spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on statues dedicated to himself instead of buying milk...

GeorgeW.Bush

08-09-2002, 05:36 AM

Originally posted by Smart

What worth?!

OIL, come on even you can't be that stupid.

Sell WHAT?

OIL

right, well, I'm sorry your stuff isn't as new or shiny as your neighbors but compared to the average Iraqi, you're goddamned Rockafeller... Not because of US/UN imposed sanctions but because the leader of the country takes ALL the income produced by every business, puts it in his bank accounts and provides his people with minimal payouts... It's not that Iraq can't afford to feed it's people, it that tSadam keeps spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on statues dedicated to himself instead of buying milk...
First off you don't know shit about the average Iraqi. If your getting your info on the middle eastern life from Sally Struthers comercials, and ABC you shouldn't be in this conversation. Saddam is not the best for Iraq, but the U.S. shouldn't stick its greedy nose into their affairs. And you still haven't given a reasonable reason why Saddam is such a threat. What you said about dictators hoarding all the money in Iraq could also be applied in the U.S. And who said anything about me being poor. You making personal attacks and acting like a jackass is really pathetic. Are you mad because i don't agree with your false patriotism or because im coming with facts? Seriously forget your internet ego, and check yourself.

Esai

08-09-2002, 05:47 AM

Although I dont care for any leader who lets his people suffer while he lives in wealth, i think were getting a load of shit about why we need to oust Saddam. Not one nation is backing US military action , even country on the US's nuts like england or suadi arabia. It seems to simple for lil dubya to just be licking the wounds of his daddys dick, but maybe so. It is not well known, but should be that in the past decade since the gulf war that despite sanctions that are killing tons of innocent Iraquis, the US put loopholes in these sanctions so that halliburton industries has still bought over 6 billion $ in oil directly from saddam, keeping him very wealthy. Who put these loopholes in the sanctions? The og bush cabinet, which is a large chunk of the new one, including our VP dick cheney who also was the ceo of halliburton while oil was being purchased from Iraq. Fuck bush and saddam. Not one penny of that money has seen the average Iraqi, whats your gus' opinion

BROWNer

08-09-2002, 05:55 AM

huh?
'grand point by glossing over facts'?!
maybe the quote is a bit over the top,
as for glossing facts, you've completely lost me on that one.
'just some guy trying to say something smart and provocative by not really saying anything'.....you're parsing the snot out of this
quote, am i missing something?

also...seeing the 'obvious political advantages' and disagreeing with them are 2 different things.

BROWNer

08-09-2002, 05:57 AM

before either of you continue, keep in mind neither of
you have all the 'facts'. alot of this shit is speculation,
heresay and assumed truth.

GeorgeW.Bush

08-09-2002, 05:57 AM

I do agree that Saddam is destroying the Iraqi' people and land, but if the U.S. attacks Saddam their not going there to get Saddam their going there for the oil. Instead of a dictator hoarding millions, and fucking the people over economically, we are going to have another greedy government taking oil by the billions, with the license to kill.

Smart

08-09-2002, 05:57 AM

Originally posted by GeorgeW.Bush

First off you don't know shit about the average Iraqi. If your getting your info on the middle eastern life from Sally Struthers comercials, and ABC you shouldn't be in this conversation. Saddam is not the best for Iraq, but the U.S. shouldn't stick its greedy nose into their affairs. And you still haven't given a reasonable reason why Saddam is such a threat. What you said about dictators hoarding all the money in Iraq could also be applied in the U.S. And who said anything about me being poor. You making personal attacks and acting like a jackass is really pathetic. Are you mad because i don't agree with your false patriotism or because im coming with facts? Seriously forget your internet ego, and check yourself.

How do YOU know what I know about the average Iraqi?

*insert insult about some fat chick from the 70's that wants to feed AFRICAN kids...

Sadaam is a threat because he's vowed revenge, that's enough, he's also actively pursuing the means to enable him to attack us... hence the threat

What you say about the US hording all the money from the poor sounds like impotent rage directed at your personal circumstances

Me making personal attacks? I didn't, I said I doubted your inteligence, that was a statement of fact, not an attack... How can you be so omnipotent as to classify my patriotism?

You don't know me, you don't know your past, you don't know the future, you don't even know yourself, go back and sit on the bench young buck, the grown-ups are talking.

BTW, this is my everyday ego, I don't have the energy to invent extra personality for some internet message board.

BROWNer

08-09-2002, 06:02 AM

'he's vowed revenge, that's enough, he's also actively pursuing the means to enable him to attack us... '

come on smart, you're making assumptions.

GeorgeW.Bush

08-09-2002, 06:04 AM

You don't know me, you don't know your past, you don't know the future, you don't even know yourself, go back and sit on the bench young buck, the grown-ups are talking.
What the fuck does this even mean? It sounds like some weak attempt to make me sound stupid, but you obviously couldn't catch me on anything. "Sit on the bench young buck" "You dont even know yourself" Come on man.

Anyway Im going to forget whatever sparked this, and get back to the topic at hand.

Smart

08-09-2002, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by BROWNer
before either of you continue, keep in mind neither of
you have all the 'facts'. alot of this shit is speculation,
heresay and assumed truth.

well, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one currently involved in this thread that can honestly remember the news reports in the 70's, when Iraq was our ally, that showed films of the children that Sadamm sent into the mine fields between Iraq and Iran before his advancing troops, also it showed pictures of the aftermath, and pictures of the few surviving children missing limbs and such...

I also have MANY friends who were in the Gulf war. Plus, I have several of our country's TOP political columnists that I call my 'uncles'... as well as alot of 'uncles' that worked in military intelligence in the top echelons until retiring to the private sector...

Smart

08-09-2002, 06:11 AM

Originally posted by BROWNer

'just some guy trying to say something smart and provocative by not really saying anything'.....you're parsing the snot out of this
quote, am i missing something?

Not at all, this is the exact type of criticism educated people apply to everything they read or hear... often, what's omitted is just as important as what's included and I think in this case it's obvious that the omission was to strengthen the quote...

GeorgeW.Bush

08-09-2002, 06:12 AM

Sadaam is a threat because he's vowed revenge, that's enough, he's also actively pursuing the means to enable him to attack us... hence the threat
We, the U.S., continually worked on and produced nuclear warheads, and the missles to transport them with, when we told everyone, including ourselves, to stop. Isn't that the same as "he's also actively pursuing the means to enable him to attack us"? Why is the U.S. is continually allowed to do special, illegal things, but when other countries do it it's seen as a outright threat?

Smart

08-09-2002, 06:31 AM

so, you're suggesting that we built these weapons to attack ourselves?

at the time we were building our nuclear arsenal it was to combat a percieved threat from the USSR and it was neither 'special' or 'illegal' and since it was discovered that the USSR was a broken empire our nuclear de-escalation has never ceased.

this is why I said you don't know what your talking about, you mischaracterize actual history to support your weak claims... I'm not above being swayed from my opinion but it will take somebody much smarter than you...

*also, we never told anyone, espescially ourelves to stop, we agreed with the russians that we would SLOW production and eventually reduce nuclear stock, it was part of the SALT two treaty... but I'm sure that's out of your scope...

honestly, it's more obvious with every reply that you don't know what you're talking about, (to take a page from your bok of 'personal attacks') your teenage bandwagon rebellion is onion skin thin...

Remi Martin

08-09-2002, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Esai
Although I dont care for any leader who lets his people suffer while he lives in wealth, i think were getting a load of shit about why we need to oust Saddam. Not one nation is backing US military action , even country on the US's nuts like england or suadi arabia. It seems to simple for lil dubya to just be licking the wounds of his daddys dick, but maybe so. It is not well known, but should be that in the past decade since the gulf war that despite sanctions that are killing tons of innocent Iraquis, the US put loopholes in these sanctions so that halliburton industries has still bought over 6 billion $ in oil directly from saddam, keeping him very wealthy. Who put these loopholes in the sanctions? The og bush cabinet, which is a large chunk of the new one, including our VP dick cheney who also was the ceo of halliburton while oil was being purchased from Iraq. Fuck bush and saddam. Not one penny of that money has seen the average Iraqi, whats your gus' opinion Although I dont care for any leader who lets his people suffer while he lives in wealth, i think were getting a load of shit about why we need to oust Saddam. Not one nation is backing US military action , even country on the US's nuts like england or suadi arabia. It seems to simple for lil dubya to just be licking the wounds of his daddys dick, but maybe so. It is not well known, but should be that in the past decade since the gulf war that despite sanctions that are killing tons of innocent Iraquis, the US put loopholes in these sanctions so that halliburton industries has still bought over 6 billion $ in oil directly from saddam, keeping him very wealthy. Who put these loopholes in the sanctions? The og bush cabinet, which is a large chunk of the new one, including our VP dick cheney who also was the ceo of halliburton while oil was being purchased from Iraq. Fuck bush and saddam. Not one penny of that money has seen the average Iraqi, whats your gus' opinion

neversaydie

08-09-2002, 09:57 AM

too much to get into! one thing is for sure is that when it comes to politics, there is always two sides to any topic that so called experts argue about so which one is telling the truth. i'm sure that both sides will be full of shit. i think the bottom line is that the usa needs to stop playing police and let nato take care of it's job. most countries aren't backing an attack so why should their be one? being a super power doesn't mean that our concerns out weigh other nations.

Smart

08-09-2002, 10:00 AM

while I agree, to an extent, with G*E and Esai, I also think Sadaam is just wrong, I don't personally think we need support from anyone if we can basically look at and identify someone as a despot... I think we've been far too light in the past, Ferdinand Marcos? Papa Doc Duvalier? BABY DOC DUVALIER? What's his nuts from Yugoslavia (Bosnia)? How do you spell Chowcheskue?

All of these people vioently deposed with American aid, it's what we do as a country, demolish heirarchies and set up democracies, but at the same time, all these men are/were animals! We could never invade Cuba because, for all the ill Castro has done to his country, he's basically a benevolent leader, with a few more rules about behavior than we like but atrocities are right out...

Sadaam puts the VX gas attack on the Kurds, sends CHILDREN into mine fields, INTENTIONALLY masses his military stockpiles by large civilian populations (not only because he's a bastard or because he doesn't care about the people who die in an attack related to nuetralizing these stockpiles, but because the higher the body count of "innocent civilians" the better the ratings on CNN)

and, towards the nobody supports the US in this thing... whatever, we don't need their support and more importantly, NOBODY supports Sadaam AT ALL! Even Arab states denounce him, he is a straight dictatorship or oligarchy, not a thoecratic state like Iran or a monarchy like the Saudis... NOBODY LIES HIM AND HE'S AND IGNORANT EGOTISTICAL SHITHEAD.... if he was on 12oz he would be banned...

Smart

08-09-2002, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by neversaydie
i think the bottom line is that the usa needs to stop playing police and let nato take care of it's job

NATO? This is none of NATO's business... the North Atlantic Treaty Organization has NO interest in the middle east... NATO defense forces are a united force of the NATO countries armies (because they are basically the most sophisticated) that are on call for the UN and as has been stated, nobody supports the US in this, which means that the UN doesn't support the US, which means NATO Peacekeepers will not be dispatched to Iraq until Sadaam is defeated, so...

neversaydie

08-09-2002, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Smart
if he was on 12oz he would be banned... [/b]
that's funny

Remi Martin

08-09-2002, 10:11 AM

DONT FUCK WITH IRAQ. 14 YEARS AGO SADDAM ENDED A BLOODY HEARTLESS WAR WITH IRAN. THAT SHIT WENT ON FOR 8 YEARS. SADDAM IS NO WORSE THAN BUSH. THEY FUCKING DO BUSINESS TOGETHER. I WAS 100 MILES FROM IRAQ WHEN INNOCENT US SAILORS WERE KILLED WITH AMERICAN MISSLES FIRED BY IRAQ. THAT SHIT WAS 1987. AMERICA HAS NO RESPECT. AND YOU WONDER WHY PEOPLE WANT TO KILL US.

Smart

08-09-2002, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by GLASS*ETCH
DONT FUCK WITH IRAQ. 14 YEARS AGO SADDAM ENDED A BLOODY HEARTLESS WAR WITH IRAN. THAT SHIT WENT ON FOR 8 YEARS. SADDAM IS NO WORSE THAN BUSH. THEY FUCKING DO BUSINESS TOGETHER. I WAS 100 MILES FROM IRAQ WHEN INNOCENT US SAILORS WERE KILLED WITH AMERICAN MISSLES FIRED BY IRAQ. THAT SHIT WAS 1987. AMERICA HAS NO RESPECT. AND YOU WONDER WHY PEOPLE WANT TO KILL US.

man, you're all over the road... just finish your beer and go to sleep, come back tomorrow when you can get it together...

Remi Martin

08-09-2002, 10:20 AM

WHATEVER SMART.

THAT SHIT IS OUTRIGHT STUPID. ITS MOTIVATED BY OIL. DONT YOUR REMEMBER THE PROTESTS FROM 1990? NO BLOOD FOR OIL.

FUCK THAT SHIT, THE IRAQI PEOPLE ARE GETTING SCREWED BY US AND THE IRAQI GOVERMENT MAKES LOOT OFF US.

SOUNDS LIKE THE SAME SHIT GOING ON IN THE STATES.

IF YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES MILITARY CAN OVER THROW BAGDHAD IN 200 WHEN THE FUCK EVER...YOUR DISILLUSIONED MY FREIND. MAYBE IN 90 AFTER TAKING 60 THOUSAND PRISONERS, MAYBE THEY WOULD GOT THAT BASTARD. BUT NOW? HELL NAHH FOOL. YOU DONT KNOW...I KNOW. I GOT HOME VIDEO TAPE OF SCUDS RAINING DOWN IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD FOOL. YOU WANNA FUCK WITH SADDAM? THEN YOU WANT TO KILL THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE. FUCK THAT SHIT. NEEDLESS TO SAY PUTTING A REGION THAT HAS SEEN WAR THAT AMERICANS HAVE NO COMPREHENSION OF BACK AT WAR YET AGAIN.

Smart

08-09-2002, 10:26 AM

first, get off the all caps thing, it doesn't fly here, I'm, not sure how Marlboro Red made it this far, but...

"don't I remember the protests?"

Of Course, I was prime draft age then, but I thought it was bullshit then, and I still think so... where is all this Kuwaiti oil we were supposed to get? OPEC prices haven't dropped significantly since we liberated that poor country...

WHERE'S THE OIL?

neversaydie

08-09-2002, 10:27 AM

true saddam is a fuckin asshole and should be killed, but i don't think that american lives are worth that objective. in my own opinion the us uses the unhumane actions of saddam as a backing for personal interest. not saying that they don't care about that aspect, but i'm sure that bush cares more about how much more we could get out of that country with an american backed government than about the people of iraq.

Remi Martin

08-09-2002, 10:32 AM

I LIKE TYPING IN CAPS. ITS EASIER FOR MY NEEDING GLASSES GOTS NO 300 BUCKS TO PAY FOR A MINOR READING PRESCRIPTION SELF READ SHIT RAPIDLY WITH OUT HAVING TO SQUINT.

IM NOT TRYING TO SHOUT AT YOU OR ANYTHING.

YEAH I GOTTA BUZZ..MY LAUNDRYS ALMOST DONE. LOVE THESE INTERNET CAFES.

Smart

08-09-2002, 10:34 AM

well American lives may not be worth it as far as any financial gain is concerned, and while I agree that we should spend our effort giving a leg up to the most unfortunate in our own country first but, I'm not gonna be able to ignore the general fear and predjudice people have about the 'less fortunate' directly around them, so, until we can cope with the crazy people on our streets, what's so bad about helping the opppressed around the world?

does anyone deny that Sadamm is an iron fisted dictator who's people live in fear and oppression?

to me it seems like the difference between mowing the front lawn or mowing the backyard, it ALL needs to be mowed right?

Smart

08-09-2002, 10:35 AM

SERIOUSLY THOUGH, ABOUT THE ALL CAPS THING... BUY SOME $10 WAL MART READING GLASSES, YOU'LL BE AMAZED... really though

Remi Martin

08-09-2002, 10:42 AM

yeah..
i hear what your saying smart. i lived a hour from iraq for ten fuckin years. shit is different out there. if florida was run by some fuckhead dictator...how would you feel about japan invading to run him out?
maybe a ARAB NATION should invade, with us financial and equipment support. thats like trynna run the town three continents over and act like you know whats poppin in the city.

Smart

08-09-2002, 10:49 AM

I'm all for it... if Holland invaded us, I would prefer that we keep our own fucked up tax system (as opposed to theirs) but I would be stoked if they would legalize dope and prostitution, and I don't even buy prostitutes...

I'm not about America first, I'm about Sadamm out...

In fact, if you know a few Japanese guys that would just come kick Jeb Bush's ass and abduct that party-daughter of his... man, I'd give $10.50 or whatever above that I'm able to borrow on short notice...

Remi Martin

08-09-2002, 11:00 AM

you gotta understand though...

the killing rate in this country is off the fucking hook. especially where i live. murder is an every day occurance. most prominent among the poor and minority population. go spend a week in bay point and oakland avenues and tell me thats not war...shit, you got the war on drugs, the war on crime and the war on terror that just revoked so many civil rights...
shit, the iraqi people are starving due to our "UN" imposed sanctions.

i dare you to tell me how many human rights sanctions or what the fuck ever the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is in violation of or does not adhere to.

we fuck off human rights on the daily.

act like you know.

Smart

08-09-2002, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by GLASS*ETCH

shit, the iraqi people are starving due to our "UN" imposed sanctions.

NO, they are not, they are starving as a direct result of their greedy ass dictator... there is MORE than enough money in Sadaam's bank acount to cover food and infant formula, but instead, he chooses to spend his money, which is penny for penny the money of his state, on 40 foot statues and 30 foot murals of HIMSELF!

Even Amnesty International absolves the UN and US of responsability for the state of the average Iraqi citizen, it's not our fault, the money is there and there have NEVER been sanctions on food or medical supplies

neversaydie

08-09-2002, 11:14 AM

it just seems that the us picks out what people it wants to help by what it gains. why doesn't the us help out the people in tibet. they don't want to be ruled by the chinese, they are supressed by the chinese government, and they don't have the resources to overthrow the government. oh wait, war with china?!

Smart

08-09-2002, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by GLASS*ETCH
i dare you to tell me how many human rights sanctions or what the fuck ever the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is in violation of or does not adhere to.

we fuck off human rights on the daily.

act like you know.

well, I'll certainly tell you this... that argument is just a diversion, it doesn't influence the justification of this action AT ALL... It doesn't matter if we shit in our neighbors front yard everyday, if we witness a murder then we witness a murder...

ArtvandaL

08-09-2002, 11:23 AM

smart isnt smart at all.

Iraqi people are victims cause they havent resorted to terrorism like "others"
the day will come
the revolution
or like the westerb nedia calls it, uprising,butrevolution is better.

Remi Martin

08-09-2002, 11:29 AM

Smart,
at this point, the invasion of Iraq should be your last concern.

Are you this concerned with the ghettos of Miami?

Remi Martin

08-09-2002, 11:31 AM

Living under a corrupt dictator is one thing...

Living in a war zone and losing all traces of normal civilian life while under invasion and at war is a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY.

Smart

08-09-2002, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by GLASS*ETCH
Smart,
at this point, the invasion of Iraq should be your last concern.

Are you this concerned with the ghettos of Miami?

absolutely, I put much shoe leather on the streets of Overtown and Liberty City... I think I addressed this in a previous post however...

Remi Martin

08-09-2002, 11:40 AM

I have enjoyed relaying view points with you Smart.

I personally feel war is a crime. Mass killing is never innocent. My family has experienced wars, I have lost freinds to killings, I dont belive it is allright to kill in the name of war. I dont belive it is allright to kill without justifiable reason. Killing thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians and making a city a war theatre, does not justify removing a corrupt dictator. The united states of america was liberated from unjust goverment, we should relay the same responisibility on the people of unjust nations. Chosing to sacrifice civilian and American military lifes in the thousands is not just. Especially when these actions are a result of a few as opposed to the civilian majority.

I do not advocate killing at all what so ever anywhere at anytime.

Smart

08-09-2002, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by GLASS*ETCH
The united states of america was liberated from unjust goverment, we should relay the same responisibility on the people of unjust nations

technically, the US liberated itself from an unjust government with the explicit aid of the French, where do you think we got our guns? Our fledgling Navy? These type events do not happen in a vacuum, but the Americans had the advantage of shoddy rule on the Elnglish part so that conspiracies and insurgents had a little more freedom to sneak around and collaborate... Iraq is LOCKED DOWN, can you deny it? There have been MANY attempts on Sadaam from within, and you know the punishment for failure, right? They kill you, and your family, and your in-laws (both sides)... like the fledgling democracy that became America, the Iraqis NEED outside support, they nede training and weapons, and we can't provide that under the current climate so what w do is take the entire task on ouselves, we liberate and then we teach the principles of Democracy instead of the tactics of war...

Smart

08-09-2002, 11:50 AM

oh, and NOBODY wants to kill innocent civilians, we don't even want to kill the Iraqi UNIFORMED soldiers who wish to surrender, as evidenced by the mass POWs of the 92 Gulf war... I think everyone would love it if this could happen with only one casualty but, how realistic is that?

Remi Martin

08-09-2002, 11:50 AM

Didnt that CIA mother fucker Osama Bin Laden offer to take out Irag?

Smart

08-09-2002, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by GLASS*ETCH
Didnt that CIA mother fucker Osama Bin Laden offer to take out Irag?

NO, Osama has never offered to fight any arab/muslim country for us or anyone... Osama fought the Russians, at that time the biggest world power influencing his sphere of operations, with the fall of the USSR he has turned his eye towards the US but basically it's a publicity stunt, wherever he can get the most attention, if anyone wants to talk about the 'business of war' you should definately loko at the workings of revolutionary governments, or, of course, you may have already looked, misread and subscribed to a busted philosophy...

Remi Martin

08-09-2002, 12:00 PM

whatever....

the us gots no business being in that part of the world.

its time to lay off that shit. we should fix the ozone, grow a whole lot of marijauna, develop transit, invest in citys.......and all that 'smart shit'

instead we as a nation are held hostage to corporatly vested interests that dicate the end of civilian lifes in the name of corporate justice.

its all bad homey.

take action and let people know that shit is way fucked up. its the truth dog. for real. belive that shit. and know it goes on everyday around the sphere.

imported_Tesseract

08-09-2002, 03:44 PM

Yikes!...Nice one Brownito, i dont really know where to start after all the blah blah...start, I'll just comment on smart and brown's words cause everything else, is just guilty jibberish. I'm really entertained by how most of you carry so much guilt for the world while being safe and sound, its like lobster eating social party helping kids in africa, leave that shit for underware designers and step on the real world.
To straighten it up i'm not font of US politics and tactics, still, i have my own reasons that geographically make sense.
Point being made is that the basis for argument is knowledge and backing up your position and not teenage antipatriotic bullshit, as far as you behave like you have nothing to do with this whole thing you're daydreaming.

So Iraq?: Yeah, its gonna be a tough one. If i'm not mistaken the plan is that US's only ally is UK and that they intent to conquer the ground of irak cause sadaam has planted the gear deep underground. Is that easy? hell no. Everyamerican war faught after vietnam is like spraypainting over rust, it runs for a few years but the rust keeps getting on the surface. Thats how airstrikes work, and thats why problems remain. So yeah, its business and its oil for you and an endless chain of interests and bonus for third parties.
The line of events is to big to focus on details, two questions
Why is Sadaam still around?
Why Bin Ladin is still out there?
and Why Milosevic's trial is a joke?

Sadaam is still around cause his people love him, cause the final result of all those wars and inspections lead to his superheroicmentation(!)...thats the result when you fuck everything up in the name of peace. You take a first class Animal Fascist and turn him to a national symbol of pride and power. I bet he has a dozen of sons that are willing to continue his struggle with the peoples approval.

Just how the Northern league is a better gov than the taliban? are things in afghanistan better now?

And how come is milosevic on trial by international war crimes while clinton and blair where nominated for peace nobel prize for Nato's attack on yugoslavia?

Another good one is coming...Who's fighting the war against terrorism??
israel yup! Thats the thing if its not obvious enough, that whole thing is the perfect backround for israel to whipe out the whole palestine...i dont see how the US gained more security from that war against terror.

I wont even pick sides or whatever, i'm not interested in that at all right now. What i'm interested in is a game with rules for all. At this point the game has no rules and everyfuckin side can claim whatever they want....then based on fire and money power those claims become reasons for blasting someone's ass of the map and pouring fuel to the fire...Whats the difference between bush and Sadaam, osama and blair? at the end of the line, nothing.
To end the ramble i'd like to underline the wisest line in here by smart...That Castro IS a true leader that works hard and wise to maitain what he believes in. Look at all the struggle and the shit he's been trough. The world would be a better place with more Castros on top. Stop the international guilt whine and try to be like him!

mental invalid

08-09-2002, 04:30 PM

why do people love castro?

the fucker is estimated to be worth 100 million dollars!!(quoted by forbes top 10 dictators) meanwhile the sugar cane industry in cuba is about to bust, leaving thousands jobless, people are living in poor conditions, and for the most part its still a stifled place of ideas and freedoms...

and yet, people award him this kind of heroic revolutionist....i just dont get it....

dont get me wrong, sanctions and all the other travel bans on cuba are stupid as hell, and as a a culture it has so much to give to the worl...but all the people supporting catro are kidding themselves....the man is a capitalist pig fronting like a concerned communist....

"teenage antipatriotic bullshit"

hahaha....seriously.....im not one to disuade youthful idealism, but some of your guys points, well, lets just say, im glad your not the spokes people for peace with iraq......

imported_Tesseract

08-09-2002, 04:42 PM

Seriously Roe, do a research on Castro's carrer, the man really did things worth talking about, plus he's the last of the mohicans, heh...With all the US measures and actions against Cuba Castro handled it well in my opinion...BTW, calling him 'dictator' isnt even funny or acurate. I'm sure you agree that he has 10 times the talent, will and work under his belt than the college drunk western leaders...

PS, whats up?:)

VandalSquad

08-09-2002, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by CHEWBAKALLAH

typical american attitudes, dont you ever question the real reason everyone hates this country?

word

mental invalid

08-09-2002, 04:56 PM

fine then castro is wasted potential...im sorry, let me repeat...

ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS (do it in the austin powers voice if you like)

i cant get over that....really, it just boggles my mind....am i well read in castro politics, no....but why do i need to be to know that in the end its all bullshit.....im sorry but someone who preaches the shit he does and then rapes his country for him and his cronies is just bullshit...if you wanna speak of a younger revolutionary castro, fine....but the end result is still a dictator with 100 mil in his bank account....

better then drunk college leaders....i dunno....its like a lesser of two evils....

as far as whats new....not much, found an apartment so i aint homeless no more...still waiting on some flicks...email me

mental invalid

08-09-2002, 05:02 PM

"typical american attitudes, dont you ever question the real reason everyone hates this country? "

nooooooooooo, iiiii neeeeeeeevvveeeeeeeeerrrrrr quessssssstion myyyyyyy owwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnn govvvvvveeeeeeeeerrrnment...

(thats me be extremely dry and sarcastic....)

yes im completely blind and march to the tune of bushs drum...

god even when i was fucking younger, i wasnt retarded in idealism....yeah i know hate your parents and the governments....its cool that way.....

you think smart it a follower of government and then american masses?
hahahahaha....because of an opinion of ousting an evil fucker like saddam? sounds like your the only one being fucking typical dood....

yeah typical american attitudes.....jackass........

imported_Tesseract

08-09-2002, 05:09 PM

Glad to hear you're doing well, email will be sent.

Back on track, you expect a leader of a country to be a broke robbin hood? i never heard of this before but still i dont care much...its more than obvious that he had to put some water on his wine to survive, still...you just cant erase a lifetimes struggle over this neither you can judge a mans view and beliefs that lasted years with result over vanity or whatever. America raped Cuba, as i said given the cirmumstances its my opinion that he handles it well.

better then drunk college leaders....i dunno....its like a lesser of two evils....

You would know, check the history and tell me about it.