-=graphic design major(S)=- [Archive] - THE WRITERS FORUM

--zeSto--

03-30-2003, 09:27 PM

yeah... it's a super serious competition out there.

Unless you have an incredible sence of artistic mertit,
great interpersonal skills, endless drive and a superhuman
ability to network and self star, you wont go far.

I'm not saying dont do it, because it could be really rewarding,
but prepare to really break your back for the next 10 years
before you really start to see the sucess.

but with a little luck, you could strike gold quickly.

Grant_Wood

03-30-2003, 09:31 PM

A WISE BITCH ASS COCKSUCKER ONCE SAID

" IF YOU HAVE A JOB THAT YOU LOVE TO DO, THEN YOU WILL NEVER WORK A DAY IN YOUR LIFE"

UGGGGHHHH!!

SukiSukiNow

03-31-2003, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by Grant_Wood
THE SALARY IS WACK, RATT TAT TAT TATT

DO A MASTERS, DO A MASTERS, I REPEAT, DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME DOING A MASTERS CAUSE IT AINT MUCH DIFFERENCE..

<--------IF I WERE TO GO TO COLLEGE, ID BE A MOTHERFUCKIN DOCTOR, THATS IT, NOTHING ELSE

Started off with a B.A. in design. It was so hard to find a fucking job!!! Gave it some serious thought and ended up going to graduate school. While I was in school, started doing massive amounts of freelance jobs and thuoght about quitting school. Stuck it out and got me my masters in graphic design. I didn't have a life but I was done. I worked as a freelance designer doing projects for some big ad agencies and companies but it was such hard work!!!! Talk about competition and the attitude you get from the fucking bitches who work as receptionists for design firms not to mention the designers who thumb thru your book like their time is being wasted. I wanted to either punch them or cry. It took me so long to get a permanent design position with this one San Francisco based publication company but I would not go to graduate school if I had to do it all over again. I must admit having that extra degree over some of my competitors (and a killer portfolio of course) did help. There's a lot of pressure, but if you really enjoy it stick with it. One helpful hint, make sure you save all your thumbnails and sketches. I made a book with just that and when I showed my book they always, every single time was interested in viewing my drawing skills and how my concept began. Now I have a cushy secure art director position and get paid hmmm... lets just say I'm paying off my $120,000.00 student loan in full this year, hooooray!!!! My salary was hiked up because I had an MFA. Oh that's another thing, DO NOT fall into the loan debt. That was my biggest regret. Make sure graphic design is something you truly enjoy, if I were able to go back in time I would tell myself to be a doctor!
Good luck.

SukiSukiNow

03-31-2003, 01:28 AM

awww im sorry i don't mean to discourage anyone

metallix

03-31-2003, 03:51 AM

I went to monster.com $10-12 salary for some no name company. HAHAHAH forget it. :))) thanks 2 every1` who replied usefully! sukisuki that means u! oh and btw im contemplating a law school, but only if i can make it into a top law school, until then its psychology major or history .. if i dont make it into a top law school atleast ill have a psych degree to fall back on and make somewhat decent cash. How come you would rather be a doctor now? It takes like 12 years to be a doctor!

-Rage-

03-31-2003, 03:53 AM

I have an Associates in GD and Multimedia.

I am now a movie projectionist.

Fuck working in a design firm for other people. I use it for my own shit.

mr.yuck

03-31-2003, 04:06 AM

120,000 in a year. SUKI SUKI NOW

Wow so all that hard work must have been a total waste of time.

Sheesh i should be so lucky.

But im gonna go for the GD associate at any rate.

Tell me something else. When i was in highschool i took a half day class
that was based around Commercial Art. It was a vocational class. Not really a highschool course. But at any rate do potential empoyers look at these types of classes?

THEdude

03-31-2003, 06:13 AM

this thread really disappointed me, but I have always been told to stick with what you like???

I'm not good at math, english, shit i fucking suck (that's the reason i;m doing this shit, it was the only thing logical for me)......I was wondering what other options you guys would go for instead of graphic design.....

:o

I45_TEXAS_I45

03-31-2003, 07:25 AM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
same here.
damm disappointing

SukiSukiNow

03-31-2003, 05:36 PM

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO everyone, please don't be discouraged!!! If you have talent then you will get a job. I think starting off with freelance is the best way to go. I used to put bids in against big firms like Primo Angeli and Satchi&Satchi and win becasue I would charge them only a fraction of what they would charge. As far as portfolios go, they want most current, more things from jobs rather than school. I just mixed it up and threw in my sketch book that I mentioned. I used to bate them this way... I had a resume made up with my logo on it and this really really faint watermark in 5% grey that read "hire me" on the paper and my resume typed on it so you can barely make it out. Peolpe always got a kick out of it and with the resume came 1 disc. You would open the disc on any mac and an icon would appear that read click me twice. When they clicked it, a slide show would befin and it would loop about 7 designs I did. That would get my foot in the door so maybe you guys can try that.

Matthew13

03-31-2003, 05:46 PM

Suki- How did you find out when a company was looking to use some art? I do illustration, and that's what i'm trying to do...maybe get some magazine publishings or somethin' to buff up that portfolio.

matthewthirteen.

SukiSukiNow

03-31-2003, 06:08 PM

What I did was first i used my school's resources for job listings and just sent my resume pack to all of them figuring I'll get atleast a few of them calling me back. Then I got a list of all the design firms, advertising firms, publication companies, and even places like the Gap and mailed them a resume pack. It was a long looooong list, a whole book full of list and info on them (if I can find it and you're in SF, I would gladly share it with you). I got to illustrate and design an entire cook book by doing this. Do you have any computer illustrated work? They like knowing you know how to use one of those.

Matthew13

03-31-2003, 06:31 PM

Na, So Cal. The Drawing part I got down,but i'm a little behind in the computer game. Due to my recent empoloyment however, I realised that i'm gonna need more Comp. skills, so I just started teaching myself adobe photoshop. I'm gonna take some classes on it illustration wise next semester as well. Maybe by next January I'll start sendin' those bitches out :) Thanks for the info.

matthewthirteen.

SukiSukiNow

03-31-2003, 06:33 PM

Nice, I'm in hell too (hell = LA). Good luck!

uncle-boy

03-31-2003, 06:36 PM

wowzers, after reading all your posts i must say i have a greater respect for you. its obvious you put in a lot of time and hard work. its tryly an inspiration, and a reality check.

i wouldnt dare try to over throw you as ENC president.

hail to the queen!:king:

yoink

03-31-2003, 06:38 PM

yeah im graduating with a studio art degree concentration in illustration and graphic design. dont ask me how that worked out...but oh well...i as well need to be looking for jobs and for grad schools...thats key. but from what i hear hard as hell to get in..
suki: if you dont mind what grad schools were you interested in and how was your application experience?

oh and upon reading theres a nice book you can find at pretty much any bookstore (barnes and nobles/ borders etc..) thats essentially a gigantic job listing for different hjobs, graphic design, illustrating etc.....they come out ever year full info, phone what they want etc...

SteveAustin

03-31-2003, 06:43 PM

Hell, I really don't even need to reply since Suki's got it on lock.

Not to be discouraging either, but one thing I've found since being in the industry is that I have no desire to even look at a computer when I get home. It has made my love of fine art escalate, though. Lots of insecure egos, competition and long hours.

In design you either make good money or you don't. When you first start out you won't. The industry kind of likes to weed out the people that aren't in love with it. After you've been in for a few years, you start to be rewarded a bit...providing your good.

yoink

03-31-2003, 06:48 PM

drop a line on what you could expect starting wages...typical....meaning, your decent...and gettin a first time job....obviously your not goin to be raking in the dough..but what figures for example?

BINHEXED

03-31-2003, 07:03 PM

you people need to realize that suki is in LA also.
the gap of inflation is insane compared to some of
the other places who's economy is not booming right now.
i bet people make 20$ an hour in mcdonalds out there, when
in NY state minimum wage is like 7 something. rent here for less
than a grand a month even in a place that isnt that nice is a steal, but i know a girl in PA who pays 400$ a month to live in a condo with a swimming pool and a gym.
i'm done rambling now.

SukiSukiNow

03-31-2003, 07:40 PM

uncle-boy - like that was even a consideration, I know Intangie told you that he would never over throw me, mwuahahahaha!!!! It's all good, you still my homie and my gopher.

yoink - yeah, you're graduationg!! That's a huge acomplishment right there, congrats! I was thinking Art Center in Pasadena, Rhode Island School of Design, or Academy of Art in San Francisco. I chose AAC because I loooooove San Francisco and Art Center was even more expensiveand I wasn't too big on living in the east coast. Just don't get suckered into their whole scheme of trying to squeeze every single penny out of you! I had to play dirty to graduate on time, for real. They tried convincing me that I needed this class, I was missing that class, I had to complete this other class and lucky for me I was friends with the Dean of Graduate School and he helped me so much. As far as pay goes, I started my freelance at $25 an hour (this was looooong time ago), aslo depending on what I was doing. Logos were at a set price and pakcage design was way more.

SteveAustin - You totally understand!!! I used to think I sucked and wondered why I couldn't find a job, I was soooo down on myself. Now I work Monday thru Friday and it's never a 9-5. I get here before 9 and leave after 6, sometimes after 7, and I took work home this weekend.
But you have to keep up with the competition and they know when you work hard. I get phatty bonuses and perks. Come Friday 6pm, I don't wnat to look at a computer or think about design! Many of times people looking for Designers end up hiring "desk top" designers. People, let me tell you, there is a huge dif between desk top designers and graphic designers and don't let anyone tell you ohterwise.

BINHEXED - yep I do live in LA and the rent is significantly lower than SF or NY so it's easier to pay better and save more too. I just moved here 6 months ago from SF, but when I was living up there they paid according to the cost of living so I guess it just all depends on the company and what not? Eh, I dunno...

mr.yuck

03-31-2003, 08:49 PM

what is the difference between a desk top designer and a graphic designer.

This thread is greatly appreciated for real

SteveAustin

03-31-2003, 09:52 PM

desk top designers use Brush Script and to make it worse they set it in all caps. They also tend to answer phones, make and file copies and other such tedious things. Typical quotes of desk top designers aka desk top publishers:
"I can use a computer."
"I have a copy of Photoshop."
"What's the difference between Photoshop and Illustrator?"
"I have Photo Paint."
"I know html."
"Camera ready art? I guess its ready to have its picture taken."

a graphic designer does design only. they've studied under a good art program, taken design and color classes, they do thumbnails AND roughs, they THINK, they go beyond the first thought that presents itself. If there is no font that "speaks to them" they make it themselves. They give whatever they are working on a VOiCE, character and personality.

SukiSukiNow

03-31-2003, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by SteveAustin
desk top designers use Brush Script and to make it worse they set it in all caps. They also tend to answer phones, make and file copies and other such tedious things. Typical quotes of desk top designers aka desk top publishers:
"I can use a computer."
"I have a copy of Photoshop."
"What's the difference between Photoshop and Illustrator?"
"I have Photo Paint."
"I know html."
"Camera ready art? I guess its ready to have its picture taken."

a graphic designer does design only. they've studied under a good art program, taken design and color classes, they do thumbnails AND roughs, they THINK, they go beyond the first thought that presents itself. If there is no font that "speaks to them" they make it themselves. They give whatever they are working on a VOiCE, character and personality.

Yeah, what he said. In one word, concept.

yoink

04-01-2003, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by SukiSukiNow
yoink - yeah, you're graduationg!! That's a huge acomplishment right there, congrats! I was thinking Art Center in Pasadena, Rhode Island School of Design, or Academy of Art in San Francisco. I chose AAC because I loooooove San Francisco............

first off thanks a bunch;) im looking forward to and dreading the real world exp. i hope with the friends ive made ive also made some connections to start goin, im on the east coast now, im skeptical about just picking up and moving out west even though from what ive heard im assuming its a mecca for this kind of gig.
now by freelance did you start doing this outta college, in grad school? that wasnt harder than tryin to get into a company where you had a secure job? im talking competition wise? :confused: laudamercy. so much to ask. so much to wonder. ;)
by the way did you also put a portfolio on the web or did you just do it by cd, slides etc...

metallix

04-01-2003, 04:00 AM

Originally posted by PUNKASSBITCH
lawyers make tons o' cash, and have possibly the least expenses. why a top law school? you go to a top college? ever been arrested? is it on your record?
I'm planning to go to law school, Ill apply for a top one, but I aint expecting to go to a top law school anyway. Ill go to a decent law school, get my name their. anyone know anything about being a lawyer? or law school? cause all I know is that they say its a SHITTY job.. I gues you really have to truly LOVE justice and and shit like that.. anyways, Im currently a punk ass bitch in a punk ass bitch university getting my punk ass bitch ass political science major so I can go on to be a punk ass bitch politician...

your too full of negativity. i don't want to go into a mediocre law school because they make mediocre money. if i can't get the best, i wont sit back with the rest. and you don't have to be in a top COLLEGE to get into a top law school..just need to work hard at it. work solves everything.

its not a shitty job, if you like it. i like it for the money and prestige, etc etc. do i love justice? depends what kind of lawyer your going to be. im not sure if they are accepting any punk ass bitch politicians lately, although in USA u never know ;)

oh and one more thing, expectations lead to failure.

VAITOMANOCU

04-01-2003, 04:08 AM

just whatever you do, do not go to music school

•nakEd

04-01-2003, 04:19 AM

nice info in here.. thanks

Frate Raper

04-01-2003, 04:48 AM

Suki and Austin, I'm first year I get some chesse half assed diplomia with options to go one to grad school when I'm done and what I'm being pushed into right now is this notion of hand rendering is "in" at the momnet and they're saying it will be the RAGE in a few years.

So what I'm wanting to know is are you guys seeing this? is air brushing etc being used to the extent I'm being told.I know marker renderings etc for roughs and thumbs is ill but whats up?

I've been told about all the hard work and that I'm not going to be blinging in the first 5 but FUCK IT.

TRYBOL

04-01-2003, 04:20 PM

I went to school for 4 years for graphic design, and found a job shortly after.
I guess all I can say is if your really into graphic design, stick it out.
I really dont like the job I'm doing but I've learned allot by being out in the field.
and I recently started a freelance company where I can go off design wise.
as far as salary goes when you go for a interview I would put down at least $30,000
for starting salary. In a year or two it will go up allot.

SukiSukiNow

04-01-2003, 05:35 PM

When I was in my undergrad program I started dling freelance and all through grad school I did freelance. Why? It fit in perfect with my schedule. I was in school Monday - Sunday either in class, using the computer lab, meeting my instructors, and I was also out of my mind and agreed to be a "mentor" to a group of students. Plus, I was getting student loans and it would have been less if they knew I had a real job. So I would do freelance and not claim taxes and I certainly did not let the school or government know I was getting paid.
Secure jobs are nice, but I really had to work around my school schedule, my projects that took me all day and night to finish, and the fucking computer lab. You have plenty of time for a 9 to 5. Although, in undergrad I did work part time as an inern for a small design firm who let me come in basically when I could.
As far as styles and trends go, they are always going to change. They come and go. It's a good thing to keep up with what's new and hip but I think it's important to know tradional skills and styles. No matter how much we are dependant on computers you have to know how to do things the tradional way. So Frate, yes, it is important that you know how to render by hand. I still hand draw some type faces and fonts, I still use spray mount sometimes, I still use an exacto knife, I still use my color swatches. My clients were impressed when they were shown hand drawn thumbnails and some wanted left that rough hand drawn style.
Sorry I tend to ramble, I'm such a nerd. I get excited talking about design and typography.

SteveAustin

04-01-2003, 06:41 PM

Like Suki said...styles ALWAYS change. Design tends to be the hot minute type of deal. Here today...gone tomorrow. Hand skills will always be in demand. Too many people become too dependent on the computer. It seems to me that a few years after "computer illustration" became mainstream, the backlash started. Hand drawn, markered, painted...whatever just seems to come off better if it was done "real" instead of on a computer. Best example of this would be CGI characters in movies. They look pretty real, even somewhat believable, but something catches your eye and lets you know its CGI. As far as it being the "Rage"....eh one hot minute. I think rough is in right now, how long it stays....who knows?

BROWNer

04-01-2003, 07:09 PM

jesus, where was this thread when i needed it a couple years ago?
not that it really matters, i did my homework before i had myself
enlisted....
i went out and hit up every graphics place in the yellow pages, sat
them down and chewed off their ears with questions. then i hit up every
city in my surrounding area with phone calls to design places and
chewed off their ears and vice versa. then i said...fuck graphic design.

zodiac ying

04-01-2003, 08:48 PM

im commenting here so that i can search myself and look back at it later, thank you goodbye, have a nice time being pretentious, unartistic and broke in a rat race from hell.

zodiac ying

04-01-2003, 08:54 PM

also in the future we can all look back at the death of "graphic design" as having been marked and coinciding and metaphorically represented by the collapse of the world trade center. thank you goodbye.:(

SukiSukiNow

04-01-2003, 10:18 PM

:confused:

Frate Raper

04-02-2003, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by TRIPLE DECKR
also in the future we can all look back at the death of "graphic design" as having been marked and coinciding and metaphorically represented by the collapse of the world trade center. thank you goodbye.:(

I bet this is one of those people that didn't go to art school and yappers on fellas that did because he's scored a few shit jobs making people in the industry photo copies that makes HIM THE ARTIST..................sorry for your complete lack of self cofendice and the fact you feel the need to rip on people that are making bling with out trying to hard.

keep your black turtle neck on and keep on sucking at life/.com

Thanks for the q and a guys

SukiSukiNow

04-02-2003, 12:20 AM

Check out 3 of my favorite "pretentious" designers:
Lucille Tenazas, Herbert Bayer, and Neville Brody.

decu goldyn1

04-02-2003, 12:45 AM

good thread lots of info here in the fall i start majoring in graphic design i think it'll work for me since the only other thing i want to do is become an a&r and i know the music industry has to be tougher to get in than graphic design
Peace

zodiac ying

04-02-2003, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by Frate Raper
I bet this is one of those people that didn't go to art school and yappers on fellas that did because he's scored a few shit jobs making people in the industry photo copies that makes HIM THE ARTIST..................sorry for your complete lack of self cofendice and the fact you feel the need to rip on people that are making bling with out trying to hard.

keep your black turtle neck on and keep on sucking at life/.com

Thanks for the q and a guys

hey buddy dont get me wrong its a great field filled with authentic people that really have your back. if your gay. hahahahahha bitter.

zodiac ying

04-02-2003, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by Frate Raper
and the fact you feel the need to rip on people that are making bling with out trying to hard.

keep your black turtle neck on and keep on sucking at life/.com

Thanks for the q and a guys

hey buddy come on i love graphic design here ya know im obsessed but its not people who make bling without trying harrd that piss me off its the hoards and masses of assholes who only became artistically inclined at the dawn of photoshop illustrator bla bla people used to be able to make it off their art because they were artists which is hardly possible anymore because of people like you.

SukiSukiNow

04-02-2003, 05:17 PM

It's a damn good thing I have sketch books I have accumulated starting from when I was 5.

Frate Raper

04-02-2003, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by TRIPLE DECKR
hey buddy come on i love graphic design here ya know im obsessed but its not people who make bling without trying harrd that piss me off its the hoards and masses of assholes who only became artistically inclined at the dawn of photoshop illustrator bla bla people used to be able to make it off their art because they were artists which is hardly possible anymore because of people like you.

Come now lets face the music sucker, I'd say about 60% of the kids I gradutated with from art school went on to "make it" may it be meger yet honest money.Reevaluate yourself and your art, yeah alot of suckers are involved in this feild but more people suck at fine art then this shite.

zodiac ying

04-02-2003, 06:15 PM

yeah but know of those 60% who graduated to make that 50% sucked at art. its not my opinion its a fact. most desiners are on a stick figure level but they still think theyre the shit. sorry big guy but its fucking annoying.

MESTHREE

04-02-2003, 06:29 PM

This thread makes me feel happy and discouraged at the same time..I graduated college for illustration with a focus on graphic design.. Ive had shows and Ive sold artwork... Ive done some design work BUT I have almost come to the conclusion that I just dont have what it takes to make it at graphic design. Not because I am not creative or because I dont have the skills....I can draw (after 7 years of life drawing etc I better be able to) its because I cant stand having to sell myself. I hate trying to market myself to other people. And you really need that to make it. Maybe Ill keep it up but these days I'm wishing I had gone to law school aswell. Anyhow Suki thats wicked that you stuck with it and made it. especially in LA...Speaking of LA I might end up there sooner or later as an art director maybe you could hook me up :)

I love graphic design. I love drawing BUT Im at a point in my life where I cant waste anymore time fucking arround. I need to start paying my bitch ass loan back and saving money.

donniefrisco

04-02-2003, 07:08 PM

Hey all_
The one thing I learned about the design industry is its not about the education you received, its all about your portfolio. Learn all you can and bring in the knowledge of graff into your design game ( color schemes, balance, structure).
The thing you all benefit from is the fact that you already have experience with typography, composition, and color theory. Transfer your knowledge of what you already and apply to your design work. Learn some fundamentals, and lose your ego. Attitude is huge and networking is probably you best in. Its very competitive and it might take you some time landing a cool job. I currently make 70k and am an Art Director, But I didn't start out as that. I landed a production job and worked my way up. My advice is to take any job you can get at a reputable design house and work your way up from there. Make yourself an asset to a company then bring in your skills to show them you more than just a production artist ( which isn't a bad thing -- production can be cool too). Show your stuff to as many people as possible and have fun. Also, a lot of companies are looking for people with the basic skills for print. Someone who can build mechanicals for print. So another thing you might want to learn is not just design, but the production aspect of it.
And lastly, just keep designing. Do tutorials and learn as much as you can. The web is a great resource, take advantage of that.
word, have fun
d

Oh about selling yourself...I feel you on that. I didnt want to either. Playing the bullshit game is something I'm not made of. Let other people do that. If your good you wont have to "sell" yourself, or your work. Others will. Then you get to a level of comfortability and speaking about your work wont feel like bullshit to you. Its all about your comfort level and confidence. If you know you are good at what you do, then fuck everyone else. Its a game, but we're all players, shit. Its a hustle, but we;re already hustlers.

SukiSukiNow

04-02-2003, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by MESTHREE
Suki thats wicked that you stuck with it and made it. especially in LA...Speaking of LA I might end up there sooner or later as an art director maybe you could hook me up :)
I love graphic design. I love drawing BUT Im at a point in my life where I cant waste anymore time fucking arround. I need to start paying my bitch ass loan back and saving money.

You can have my job when I leave in 2 years to set up my own business. But what's in it for me? Your computer or your soul?
I say we start a 12oz Design firm, yeah?

As for selling yourself, I know that sucks ass. I hated having to compromise myself and my concept. Believe me, it took a toll on my sanity and I took some time off and got a job as the specialist for a couple of schools. I created and set up art programs (including computer art) for kids. I had so much fun teaching and wouldn't mind at all going back to it!

Frate Raper

04-02-2003, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by TRIPLE DECKR
yeah but know of those 60% who graduated to make that 50% sucked at art. its not my opinion its a fact. most desiners are on a stick figure level but they still think theyre the shit. sorry big guy but its fucking annoying.

AGREED,whats worse is suckers ripping of what your doing.I had that happen alot in the last 2 years,I want to kick the crap out of a few fellas, yes it's silly and immature but I'm not one to stand by and let some one slide thru life while i work my ass off.

I want to start a company with some of the guys I paint with almost all of us have some form of post ed in art.It's crazy to sit a read how many kids have gone thru art school or are in art school on here.I'm also shocked when people from this board are in to other things like bussiness a freind of mine from here will be millionare in 5 years I know it.

Mes I picked up on that your not down to talk about yourself/ art work...next time were all at a graffiti loser jam we'll sit and listen to people talking about them selfs and we can make fun of them........more then we would normally.The most humble people in our area our normally friends with you and I....think about it for a second it's weird!

zodiac ying

04-03-2003, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by Frate Raper
It's crazy to sit a read how many kids have gone thru art school or are in art school on here.

this says alot. how many kids never would go to art school because art wasnt their shit until "graphic design". alot. obviously ive had some shitty experiences and im generalizing. but theres a ton of crap out there competing to eat, it sucks for those of us who grew up with nothing but art to have to deal with all these other people and BULLSHIT.

SteveAustin

04-03-2003, 05:31 PM

the really annoying thing is that most of these kids can't get a job, so they end up doing freelance work and making entirely more money than they should. I have to fix shit that these dumbasses send us on a daily basis.

Suki...12 oz design firm...kinda conjures up visions of Black Market. I'm sure it'd be a fun place to work. I really admire the places that turn down work. Hmmm, you want what? Uh, no thanks.

Frate Raper

04-03-2003, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by TRIPLE DECKR
this says alot. how many kids never would go to art school because art wasnt their shit until "graphic design". alot. obviously ive had some shitty experiences and im generalizing. but theres a ton of crap out there competing to eat, it sucks for those of us who grew up with nothing but art to have to deal with all these other people and BULLSHIT.

Not just graphic students slugger....animation kids piss me off most don't work either....

zodiac ying

04-03-2003, 08:39 PM

yeah but animation students ive met are just weirdos. same with fine art students. i guess its just art school, the real talent is there its just few and far between. but in a place like fine art it doesnt matter. if you suck you suck who cares. in gd you can suck bad but be buddies with so and so and you got the job and the cream while someone with some serious shit that needs the job and could really do something is nowhere. it holds the field as a whole back. art and graphic design is apples and oranges, but it shouldnt be.

eseLokE1uno

04-03-2003, 08:58 PM

most writers i know that go to school do graphic design, i am in animation because i like working with moving images. and most animation students suck at drawing but that doesnt really matter in this feild, on the other hand the really good drawers come up with the illest models.

nomadawhat

04-03-2003, 10:11 PM

don't compromise something you would really enjoy working with the rest of your life for something you think may be initially easier to get a foot in the door and/or make more money. this is something
I did but it has now come around full circle. i ended up stopping my engineering studies short of my BS, took a handful of different design classes, figured out the direction i wanted to go. While I still work
with engineering at the moment I am now pursuing a degree in industrial design and a career change. I would much rather enjoy my career than be miserable and stable in a job that is ridgid and non-stimulating all to often.

Frate Raper

04-03-2003, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by TRIPLE DECKR
yeah but animation students ive met are just weirdos. same with fine art students. i guess its just art school, the real talent is there its just few and far between. but in a place like fine art it doesnt matter. if you suck you suck who cares. in gd you can suck bad but be buddies with so and so and you got the job and the cream while someone with some serious shit that needs the job and could really do something is nowhere. it holds the field as a whole back. art and graphic design is apples and oranges, but it shouldnt be.

We could rage a jihad against suckers.............or just kill the comp with skill and wit.Art school is like graffiti alot of fags and chumps and the core back bone of kids that do there thing and wait out in the back.

You started off sounding like a dickhead but we got alot in common.

MESTHREE

04-03-2003, 10:52 PM

Suki, haha you can have my computer :) it stinks Im getting a new one next week! thats interesting that you are into teaching. I also work with a kids program and teach arts and crafts stuff. I have also been trying to start up some art programs at local community centres. Art programming in the downtown area of toronto has taken a hard hit in recent years. I love working with kids. And although I may sound pessemistic I just happened to get a decent freelance job yesterday evening....funny how things work out.

Frate, I almost always hate talking about my art. I always feel like such a fag. To me my art is all disposable so after a few days I usually dont give a fuck about any piece (artwork not graff) that I have worked on, as far as Im concerned it can stay under my bed or in the closet with the tones of other shit I dont want to look at. Anyhow you know Im always down for making fun of people :D its one of my favourite passtimes.

imported_Comp

04-03-2003, 11:33 PM

currently i'm in school for graphic design and yes there are a lot of people who can't draw to save their soul. and you know what? they can't design for shit either, that just means there's a bigger margin to seperate yourself. the more sht you know how to do the more valuable you'll be in a firm.

now all this shit probably isn't true because i'm just a student, but whatever. i love this feild because it's made me so much better at my art because i'm so distanced from it. like i'll put a lot into it, but hwen i'm done very rarely am i attatched to the piece.

imported_El Mamerro

04-04-2003, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by SteveAustin
the really annoying thing is that most of these kids can't get a job, so they end up doing freelance work and making entirely more money than they should. I have to fix shit that these dumbasses send us on a daily basis.

Heh... that would be me!

I majored in industrial design during school, so I learned how to design, and have what I consider to be good graphic design skills in terms of layout, color, typography, etc (well, I still have lots to learn on type)... however, since I learned GD almost entirely on my own and through jobs I did, I'm very much lacking in a lot of the technical aspects of printwork. I got web design down pat pretty good from internships at web studios, but I've never done hardcore print stuff.

Now I landed this HUGE freelance gig doing packaging design, and am getting pretty overwhelmed with the technicalities of print (color separations, dot traps, line screens, spot colors, etc.) that I've never learned. I was gonna make a thread asking the hardcore graphic designers here on 12oz (Steve, Suki, Raven, and whoever else could help me out) for hints and tips for delivering fully functional, error free artwork for the printers, cause I don't wanna be one of those freelancing dumbasses that send crap real graphic designers have to fix. Would you guys be down to help me out? Pretty please? Beer,

El Mamerro

--zeSto--

04-04-2003, 12:38 AM

it's all about the QC (quality control)

anyone can come up with interesting mistakes,
the true techincians make those things happen
on purpose, can do it again AND pass quality control.

hey mams... I've got a japanese song you NEED to hear.
*edit: I mean pop on aim if you can. you'll laugh your pants off.

SukiSukiNow

04-04-2003, 12:48 AM

Mamerro, you've helped me out before so if there's anything I can do in return?

P.S. I'm in need of a freelance web designer!!!! Anyone?

SteveAustin

04-04-2003, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by El Mamerro
I was gonna make a thread asking the hardcore graphic designers here on 12oz (Steve, Suki, Raven, and whoever else could help me out) for hints and tips for delivering fully functional, error free artwork for the printers, cause I don't wanna be one of those freelancing dumbasses that send crap real graphic designers have to fix. Would you guys be down to help me out? Pretty please? Beer,

El Mamerro

not a problem man, hit the email up with any questions.
suki...if only I had spare time...and a web connection at home, I'd be so down with that offer. Somehow most of my freelance stuff is probono....not really sure how that happened.

Andy Capp

04-09-2003, 04:15 AM

most of you are probably from the states, but i was wondering if there's any knowlege about some canadian schools for illustration/graphic design stuff. theres sheridan i know, but i was thinking more in vancouver area but anything is useful. i've been checking out the Emily Carr school and Capilano College. If anyone knows how those schools or other schools in canada are rated or what their reputation is like i would be grateful.

villain

04-09-2003, 05:26 AM

Yall don't even want to know about my career.... it careened way off track. I barely have the motivation for art anymore anyways... I was never big on selling my soul for art, and the nepotism and the money oriented market is not very cool either. It would have been nice though to land a halfway decent job I could live on and just do my own thing in my spare time.... It's good to hear so many success stories for REAL starving and striving artists.

Saaaay Suki: You might want to check this web designer out...
Designer@FantasyWebDesigning.com
I met him on the bus not too long ago.... he's a real cool cat.

SukiSukiNow

04-09-2003, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by villain
Yall don't even want to know about my career.... it careened way off track. I barely have the motivation for art anymore anyways... I was never big on selling my soul for art, and the nepotism and the money oriented market is not very cool either. It would have been nice though to land a halfway decent job I could live on and just do my own thing in my spare time.... It's good to hear so many success stories for REAL starving and striving artists.

Saaaay Suki: You might want to check this web designer out...
Designer@FantasyWebDesigning.com
I met him on the bus not too long ago.... he's a real cool cat.

thanks, i emailed them and asked for a sample.

don't give up, it's a fucking struggle and lots of endless hours of hard work but you'll get there.

imported_El Mamerro

04-09-2003, 06:12 PM

Question #1:

Do you guys usually do your own ink traps and color separations?

I know how to make separations in Photoshop, but it's mostly Illustrator work I'm dealing with. I'm not worried too much cause the printer guys told me they can do them. I'm simply asking for future reference.

As for ink traps, I also have no clue how to them in Illustrator, I've heard it's actually quite complicated. I know Quark has an auto trapping function, but it's faulty, and I haven't used Quark in 4 years and barely remember my way around it.

Question #2:

The printing guys mentioned something about reverse plates which i didn't have the time to ask them about. What is the importance of this and how should I keep it in mind when preparing my artwork?

Thank you so much for helping me out, guys. Beer,

El Mamerro

hulk hogan

04-09-2003, 06:40 PM

aw man am i the only one here that kicks ass in cooking?

SteveAustin

04-09-2003, 06:48 PM

Everything that leaves my desk is in a quark file or eps. Most of the time I just let Quark do its thing. I always proof it to make sure its right, if its not I'll fix it. I work with Photoshop a lot more than Illustrator. You don't have to worry about trapping with 4 color process jobs due to the nature of the printing method. If I'm working with spot colors in Illustrator, I will go in and trap it myself. I would say its more of a pain in the ass then complicated.

I leave seperations up to whoever is preparing the film...if we even use film. There is a standard....45 degree angles if I remember correctly. Sometimes I request things to be done a certain way, but this is always due to it being printed differently than the standard offset litho. Most everything I'm doing bypasses film anymore...straight to plate.

Question #2...It shouldn't have any effect on the preperation of the artwork. If anything different techniques will be addressed in the output of film. Get the specs from the printer regarding how they want the film. Relay this info to the output people and you should be good. For the record what kind of printing are we talking about?

You know your shit mamerro, so I wouldn't be too worried. Might want to freshen up on those Quark skills. ;) But thats easy shit and we can get you back up to speed in no time.