RIAA nails 1,000 music-lovers in 'new Prohibition' [Archive] - THE WRITERS FORUM

slightly

07-20-2003, 07:23 PM

The Recording Industry Association of America's attack on US culture has escalated at an alarming pace this week.

On Friday the lobby group that works on behalf of the large, mostly foreign-owned, music conglomerates that own the music copyrights and distribution channels confirmed that it was serving subpoenas at the rate of 75 a day on US citizens for the crime of sharing the music they love.

This signals a change of tactics for the RIAA: as now each individual file sharer is potentially responsible for thousands of dollars in damages. Once they were shielded by ISPs, but in the wake of the Verizon case, individuals are now exposed to direct intimidation. The RIAA is beside itself with glee: and boasted that a thousand music-lovers had already been busted.

The escalation in violence threatens to bring the US criminal justice system to an impasse: although the prison industry is already full to the brim, the RIAA's actions make new criminals out of tens of millions of ordinary US citizens. As Boycott-RIAA's founder Bill Evans notes, "there are more file-sharers than voters for either candidate at the last Presidential Election".

When Evans dubs the 'Recording Incarceration Industry of America' he's only half-joking. If the RIAA was to be indulged in its whims, the statistics suggest that the USA would rapidly become a vast, continent-wide penal colony. And that's hardly a beacon of liberty to shine on the rest of the world. Particularly when, with the backing of the much-maligned US military, the RIAA is ripping up liberal social copyright laws and replacing them with its own.

Not surprisingly, this has provoked a deep counter-reaction which is finally, and belatedly, taking to the streets. On August 1 and 2, Boycott-RIAA and affiliated groups will be holding anti-RIAA rallies across the country.

Well, here's your alarm call. While it may seem to be invincible, the RIAA is desperately vulnerable: and it knows it. It's under threat of anti-competitive lawsuits, its key DC placemen are under fierce scrutiny ... and the mass criminalization of innocent US citizens is a most coercive step citizens have seen since the Prohibition era.

But can you compel your neighbor to give up lawnmowing, or weblogging, for long enough to make a real difference? Well, read them this attack on family values

I cannot accept that the "Land of the Free" is accepting the nonsense propounded by the RIAA.

This desire to fine and litigate is becoming pervasive and foolishly assumes that you can modify normal human behaviour with LAW.

Firstly - all art forms are like children in that the creative urge is similar to the urge to reproduce. If we accept this analogy then it follows that as you do not own your children for their entire life you cannot expect to own your art for it's entire life. In fact, if the rules currently in force where in place in the earlier part of the last century then many films could not have been made and much music could not have been produced. Music belongs to us all.

crave

07-20-2003, 07:31 PM

so it begins...

Vanity

07-20-2003, 07:33 PM

i dont see why people are so upset.

you are stealing.

slightly

07-20-2003, 07:36 PM

this shits just a little harsh thats all im saying, all i download is like jay z or mainstream stuff i dont sit and try to find rare copies of mixtapes or anything.

the thing i hate about this orginization though, is that you cannot play more than two songs within the same hour by the same artist on internet radio stations, fuck that. That restricts my radio show so fuckin much.

bodice_ripper

07-20-2003, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by Vanity
i dont see why people are so upset.

you are stealing.

pfft. I am just BRIMMING OVER with sympathy for the music industry. those people have put every available resource into pushing lightweight, forgettable, disposable music on the market, and then are shocked to find that people veiw music as disposable and without (financial) worth?

Fuck Them. I hope this brings down the music industry, and we are forced to listen to music made by friends and locally.

mapo returns

07-20-2003, 07:53 PM

bodice_ripper

07-20-2003, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by mapo returns
just because you think of it as 'forgettable, disposable' doesnt mean everybody does.

alot of people probably think that about a Tupac album fits that description. however, i think it is the exact opposite. and thats just one example.
:

perhaps you have so far avoided some of the Sclub 7 style shite that's in overdrive of late, but no matter, give you time

I'm glad my post irritates you. I have been on here on and off all along. I thought YOU said YOU were leaving. But then, I suppose you also said you were black.... :)

kiss kiss

Kyuzo

07-20-2003, 08:39 PM

incase you guys didn't know, the riaa is currently testing small nuclear devices which they plan to use on file sharers later this year

Dick Quickwood

07-20-2003, 08:50 PM

im going to download some music

mapo returns

07-20-2003, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by bodice_ripper
perhaps you have so far avoided some of the Sclub 7 style shite that's in overdrive of late, but no matter, give you time

I'm glad my post irritates you. I have been on here on and off all along. I thought YOU said YOU were leaving. But then, I suppose you also said you were black.... :)

nice job completely avoiding my counter-argument. give me a list of bands you like, i bet theyre all shit. but that doesnt mean a dumb bitch like yourself shouldnt be allowed to buy it. but youre obviously far too stupid and just generally fucked up to understand and carry on an intelligent debate.

oh and i am black, honey. i know a few people on here try to question me since i dont seem to have the sterotypical, 'hate the white man, vote democrat' attitude - which by the way isnt all that realistic outside of pop culture, but thats another thread.

maybe sometime soon ill post a pic of myself just to cut all the bullshit.

Dr. Dazzle

07-20-2003, 09:06 PM

If they don't want people downloading music, they shouldn't charge $30 for a CD. Fuck them, I agree with bodice 100%. I'll keep doing it until they're banging on my door.....

mapo returns

07-20-2003, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by Dr. Dazzle
If they don't want people downloading music, they shouldn't charge $30 for a CD. Fuck them, I agree with bodice 100%. I'll keep doing it until they're banging on my door.....

hey asshole.

Lexus charges $55,000 for a car. Does that give you the right to steal one?
You probably think so, but youre too pussy to do some shit like that.

If you dont like what they charge dont buy it you stupid fuck.

Oh and just to make things clear, I download shit like a madman.
I literally have about 400 mp3s. I havent bought a cd in about a year.
But all Im saying is that its wrong. Just because I do it and like it doesnt make it right. Excuse-making assholes is what you both are.

Swiffer Jet

07-20-2003, 09:28 PM

i download music.

i only download songs that i know i can't get ahold of in a store. [mostly trance...hehe]

but other than that, i support the artist(s) by buying their CD...and then ripping it into my computer and then making a burnt copy for me to put into my car. :)

or i would make my own mixed CD.

but if it's southern rap stuff, i'd either borrow it then burn it or download it. just because supporting people who flaunt their money and talking about sluts is not my thing. heh...

Dr. Dazzle

07-20-2003, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by mapo returns
hey asshole.

Lexus charges $55,000 for a car. Does that give you the right to steal one?
You probably think so, but youre too pussy to do some shit like that.

If you dont like what they charge dont buy it you stupid fuck.

Oh and just to make things clear, I download shit like a madman.
I literally have about 400 mp3s. I havent bought a cd in about a year.
But all Im saying is that its wrong. Just because I do it and like it doesnt make it right. Excuse-making assholes is what you both are.

Hahaha.....this kittens got claws! Looks like we struck a chord with this one.

Fuck off with this holier than thou bullshit. I could give a fuck less what your opinions are. I'll download music to my heart's content, even if it does make mapo cry.......

Don Tahn

07-20-2003, 09:33 PM

stealing is charging 19.95 for a cd that costs 3 dollars to make.
and stealing is wronggggg.

Kyuzo

07-20-2003, 09:36 PM

seven.13

07-20-2003, 09:43 PM

Well now that I am in Canada I am out of the RIAA's reach.
Maybe when teachers are paid more than musicians I'll start paying for a CD.
Seriously, why do you need all that money? You don't need millions to live.

Oh, Mapo is the first member on my ignore list. wahey.

mapo returns

07-20-2003, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by Kyuzo
well, if i could download a $55,000 car off the internet then i probably would

i know.

but you wont go out and steal it the old fashioned way because youre a pussy. thats the point i was making.

you dont make me cry by stealing music. i dont fucking care. i download music to my hearts content, but i know im stealing. you people download music and try to justify it, that makes you an asshole cocksucking motherfucker. see the difference?

to the guy who ignored me. good. you dont deserve to read my posts anyway. i hereby forbid you from ever reading one of my posts again.

Poop Man Bob

07-20-2003, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by mapo returns
but you wont go out and steal it the old fashioned way because youre a pussy. thats the point i was making.

No, that means he has some sense, toughguy.

~KRYLON2~

07-20-2003, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by Vanity
i dont see why people are so upset.

you are stealing.

word

mr.yuck

07-20-2003, 11:32 PM

i dont think that stealing a LEXUS and a few songs is a good comparison although i do see the point you are trying to make. The funny thing is you would get in less trouble for stealing a Lexus than getting caught with all of the music you have downloaded. What, on song alone is gonna cost you $150,000? That's fucking retarded. I remember the good old days when you wanted to steal music you had to get off your ass and go to the store.

Fuck it you might as well steal a lexus.

Don't Panic

07-21-2003, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by mapo returns
but youre obviously far too stupid and just generally fucked up to understand and carry on an intelligent debate.
"...................................."
you people download music and try to justify it, that makes you an asshole cocksucking motherfucker.

Go back to the army with your psuedo-intellecual gibberish. Oh, that's right......I must have forgot, you're a pussy. But..........I thought we were pussies, because we aren't dumb enough to go steal a lexus. Damn, man, now you've got me all confused with your intelligent debating.

So we share music, what is the big fucking deal? It's out there for us to use and distribute. Why don't radios get shut down? I can just as easily record a song off the radio, all it takes is a little extra time for it to surface in the rotation. Fuck the RIAA. They brought this onto themselves.

NOUM

07-21-2003, 12:44 AM

These people are just asking for anarchy.

NOUM

07-21-2003, 12:45 AM

So it begins...

WrIot

07-21-2003, 12:52 AM

it doesnt matter that much because someones going to come along and make a new mp3 program that no one knows about so we will once again be able do download music.....its a never ending cycle

the_gooch

07-21-2003, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by Vanity
i dont see why people are so upset.

you are stealing.

if i pay for a cd, upload it to my computer, then decide to "share" it with whome ever FOR FREE. how is that stealing?

StarzAbove

07-21-2003, 01:15 AM

They cant get everyone!

NOUM

07-21-2003, 01:23 AM

I just had De ja vu.

JohnnyHorton

07-21-2003, 01:28 AM

Originally posted by mapo returns
you dont make me cry by stealing music. i dont fucking care. i download music to my hearts content, but i know im stealing. you people download music and try to justify it, that makes you an asshole cocksucking motherfucker. see the difference?

and another person's agenda is your business since... ?
if you come into a public place, to read public opinions, you have to expect to see things you don't agree with mapo...

its like you said - in your opinion tupac isn't mindless pop drivel which seems to populate air frequencies these days ... and its like my homie dazzle said - in his opinion its criminal to be charging $30 for a plastic disk that costs them $0.50 to make and a few extra dollars to market...

in other words, its ALWAYS a matter of opinion and an opinion ain't right no matter where it comes from, ever...

you sure you're into your twenties and not your teens? even people with the most basic grasp on common sense should be able to pick something like this out...

T.T Boy

07-21-2003, 01:54 AM

i steal music,
i love stealing music.
i love sharing it too.

the interweb has helped me find new bands who ive actually went out and bought their cd. come find me up here riaa. whoo hoo. kazaa is from sweden anyways.

im gonna go steal some more music.

bodice_ripper

07-21-2003, 02:42 AM

Originally posted by mapo returns
nice job completely avoiding my counter-argument. give me a list of bands you like, i bet theyre all shit.

Oh, you debate GOD you........:rolleyes:

destroya

07-21-2003, 02:55 AM

Originally posted by the_gooch
if i pay for a cd, upload it to my computer, then decide to "share" it with whome ever FOR FREE. how is that stealing?

the idea is that everyone who wants to listen to it should buy it.

xwibxonex

07-21-2003, 02:57 AM

ive been here 4 weeks and i have 1,496 mp3,s and when i get back home
ill have well over 5,000 waiting for me, come get me muttthhafuckiizzzz

casekonly

07-21-2003, 02:59 AM

the RIAA/mafia can suck my crank.

mapo returns

07-21-2003, 03:00 AM

Originally posted by Don't Panic
Go back to the army with your psuedo-intellecual gibberish. Oh, that's right......I must have forgot, you're a pussy. But..........I thought we were pussies, because we aren't dumb enough to go steal a lexus. Damn, man, now you've got me all confused with your intelligent debating.

So we share music, what is the big fucking deal? It's out there for us to use and distribute. Why don't radios get shut down? I can just as easily record a song off the radio, all it takes is a little extra time for it to surface in the rotation. Fuck the RIAA. They brought this onto themselves.

yeah im a pussy because i got out of the army. i had to stand up for myself and fight to get out. i fully expected to be sent to RCF (the military version of jail) for that refusing orders, but I did it anyway. not to mention i was already 8 weeks deep into basic training and the hardest shit is the first 3 weeks. besides, its a helluva lot harder to get out than it is to graduate basic training. just look at the ratio of graduates vs non-graduates for the proof.

i dont fucking care if you 'share' music. i do it myself. go out and share everything you fucking own. share naked pics of your fucking sister for all i fucking care. that isnt the point. im just saying you should recognize it as theft. which it is.

no, you cant 'just as easily' record a song off the radio. recording songs off the radio is a pain in the ass..dling off kazaa is easy. although i see your point. but the quality isnt the same, and that was a song the record label decided to release. that doesnt grant you the right to own the cd.

for example, i could record the sopranos on tv. however, that doesnt not entitle me to go to best buy and steal the first season on dvd.

mapo returns

07-21-2003, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by bodice_ripper
Oh, you debate GOD you........:rolleyes:

that would be me.

go wave at someone..and then watch your upper-arm fat flap around.

mapo returns

07-21-2003, 03:13 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnnyHorton
and another person's agenda is your business since... ?

since they posted it on here.

if you come into a public place, to read public opinions, you have to expect to see things you don't agree with mapo...

exactly. that goes for people i disagree with too, right?

its like you said - in your opinion tupac isn't mindless pop drivel which seems to populate air frequencies these days ... and its like my homie dazzle said - in his opinion its criminal to be charging $30 for a plastic disk that costs them $0.50 to make and a few extra dollars to market...

ok, although youre comparing apples and oranges.

in other words, its ALWAYS a matter of opinion and an opinion ain't right no matter where it comes from, ever...

well that depends on what you mean by 'right'. if you mean that because one person believes something - that doesnt make it absolute truth, then yes, thats true.

you sure you're into your twenties and not your teens? even people with the most basic grasp on common sense should be able to pick something like this out...

i have more than a 'basic grasp' on common sense. thanks though.

non-hetero

07-21-2003, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by ink Lunatic
Maybe when teachers are paid more than musicians I'll start paying for a CD.

Vanity

07-21-2003, 05:58 AM

im sorry, but none of ya'll have touched mapo.

i don't see how lack of sympathy= not stealing.

if there wasn't a market for the music, there wouldn't be a problem.

the only possible argument i see against it is that music isn't tangible, and hence cant' be stealing... which is an argument against any sort of copyright.

if you decide not to care that it's stealing, that's one thing, but people seem to be arguing "i dont care" against it.

now, if you'll excuse me, i have to finish d/ling some kool g rap.

Vanity

07-21-2003, 06:02 AM

and as far as the excessiveness.. im not too sure on the punshments, but i dont really see it as any worse than if someone got busted for shoplifting from a music store, only now it's like shoplifting in addition to piracy.

however, that entire destroying the computer of the downloader is rediculoid.

and it does seem odd that more people are downloading than voted, and i think the role of government should be to account for this and not fight against it. but that would be unamerican, and the industry has lots of lobbying money.

:rolleyes:

yoink

07-21-2003, 06:15 AM

99 percent of the mp 3's I have I either went out and bought their cd, or allready had it. I support musicians and artists that I deem worthy of supporting, Fuck the RIAA

Page Two Styles

Smart

07-21-2003, 06:36 AM

Originally posted by bodice_ripper
pfft. I am just BRIMMING OVER with sympathy for the music industry. those people have put every available resource into pushing lightweight, forgettable, disposable music on the market, and then are shocked to find that people veiw music as disposable and without (financial) worth?

Fuck Them. I hope this brings down the music industry, and we are forced to listen to music made by friends and locally.

Well, I liked you in the beginning, and then you got super righteous on me, and I've always thought you sucked since then... but now I have another reason to dislike you... in fact... FUCK YOU!

You're not 'fucking the 'music industry' when you steal music... you're fucking me... and thousands like me... People who have put their heart into songs that have luckily been recorded and become popular.

I get 17 cents a radio play, and revenue from 3 albums, 37cents for 2 and 52 cents for another...

And that's money I have relied, RELIED upon for several years... by using Kazaa and similar programs, you're not sticking it to the MULTI_BILLION DOLLAR A MONTH 'record industry'...

YOU'RE FUCKING SONGWRITERS AND STUDIO MUSICIANS AND ALBUM TECHNICIANS AND EVERY 'LITTLE GUY' IN THE WHOLE FUCKING MUSIC UNIVERSE!!!

Who do you think gets paid first when a record becomes a hit? When the money isn't there, who do you think gets financially fucked?

TAKE YOUR SELF SERVING BULLSHIT VIEW ON THE "MUSIC INDUSTRY" AND FIST IT UP YOUR GIRLIES ASS AT SOME GAY PRIDE RALLY...

I don't tell you how to lick pussy, don't tell me how to 'take it like a man'

AND THE REST OF YOU FUCKERS!!!!!
You like the music so much that you want to have it before your friends and play it for people but paying for it NO WAY! PUSSY!

If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem!

casekonly

07-21-2003, 06:38 AM

i hope i get int rouble for sharing porn and jenna jameson comes to my house to "arrest" me

StIdesChurch

07-21-2003, 07:26 AM

see i download a fuckload but i also buy a shitload of cds. any group that i am impressed with from my downloads ill buy their cd. i listen to a lot of independent groups that i never would have heard of if it wasnt for kazaa and other download programs. so i mean, groups that i never would have heard of are getting money from me when i buy their cds.

Dick Quickwood

07-21-2003, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by Smart

hahahahahahah SERVED !

Smart

07-21-2003, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by StIdesChurch
so i mean, groups that i never would have heard of are getting money from me when i buy their cds.

Actually, I agree... I think there are great opportunities out there from this technology but... I think it should be 'sourced'... in that, I think that '"low-res" versions of songs (say mono and 8bit) should be freely distributable but...

Actually, another analogy... I would like to see free internet songs be like a demo version of a program, gotta buy the real to get the full version... I'm all about the test drive but...

Seriously... the way history has generally worked is that, 'a man can be judged by his achievements, contributions or ability to entertain'... and now 'entertainment' has become public property or something... like you could all write this stuff yourself.

ACTUALLY... I doubt that more than 4 or you around here could write a 'Britney Spears' song or a 'Justin Timberlake' song, and youcan say those songs suck as much as you want (and I agree) but... those songs make MILLIONS of dollars, and the albums make billions and then come the Ad Revenue tie ins...

so yeah, it's a GREAT idea to burn songs from all your favorite 'underground' bands because who are they to expect/pray-for support from other common people... If they were 'poor' they wouldn't have a record contract right?!?
(Basically the same as being an entry level construction worker but lower pay, and less regular)

JohnnyHorton

07-21-2003, 08:43 AM

Mapo, you missed the point of my post....
My point was ... do you really care that much? Does what other people do piss you off that much?
I know I compared apples and oranges, that was the point...

Anyways... just let it go... who cares what other people do that much

StIdesChurch

07-21-2003, 10:15 AM

SMART:

" Actually, another analogy... I would like to see free internet songs be like a demo version of a program, gotta buy the real to get the full version... I'm all about the test drive but..."

a bunch of groups do that. they put out the mp3 of the song and then have some shit on the track during the chorus or whatever saying "Promotional copy only" or "Go buy or cd" and shit like that right in the middle of the song. its mad annoying, but i guess it serves its purpose.

" so yeah, it's a GREAT idea to burn songs from all your favorite 'underground' bands because who are they to expect/pray-for support from other common people... If they were 'poor' they wouldn't have a record contract right?!? "

was this directed at me?

MOOGLE?

07-21-2003, 11:22 AM

......nevermind...

if you do you do, you dont you dont.
people steal everyday and dont realize it.
intentions are always thought to be the best through your own eyes.
music is music is music

freedom is only in the mind
cash rules everything around me/cream get the money/dolla dolla bill yall.

free or $13.00-$20.00 for a cd

bodice_ripper

07-21-2003, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by Smart
Well, I liked you in the beginning, and then you got super righteous on me, and I've always thought you sucked since then... but now I have another reason to dislike you... in fact... FUCK YOU!

You're not 'fucking the 'music industry' when you steal music... you're fucking me... and thousands like me... People who have put their heart into songs that have luckily been recorded and become popular.

I get 17 cents a radio play, and revenue from 3 albums, 37cents for 2 and 52 cents for another...

And that's money I have relied, RELIED upon for several years... by using Kazaa and similar programs, you're not sticking it to the MULTI_BILLION DOLLAR A MONTH 'record industry'...

YOU'RE FUCKING SONGWRITERS AND STUDIO MUSICIANS AND ALBUM TECHNICIANS AND EVERY 'LITTLE GUY' IN THE WHOLE FUCKING MUSIC UNIVERSE!!!

Who do you think gets paid first when a record becomes a hit? When the money isn't there, who do you think gets financially fucked?

TAKE YOUR SELF SERVING BULLSHIT VIEW ON THE "MUSIC INDUSTRY" AND FIST IT UP YOUR GIRLIES ASS AT SOME GAY PRIDE RALLY...

I don't tell you how to lick pussy, don't tell me how to 'take it like a man'

AND THE REST OF YOU FUCKERS!!!!!
You like the music so much that you want to have it before your friends and play it for people but paying for it NO WAY! PUSSY!

If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem!

dragging the "gay" tthing into it only weakens whatever argument you are trying to make, and you know it.

My downloading music insn't fucking over smaller/ upcoming bands, but record companies pouring resources into whichever band they think will be a good cash cow is.

so fuck them. I can't help but notice that I amn't the only one expressing this view...but clearly i was the only one you could net-yell abuse at for being gay.

The music industry is a creative blackhole. i hope it collapses. anything i can do (even if it probably won't work) to speed it up s a good thing as far as I am concerned. None of the "points" (cough insults cough) so cogently made here have moved me one bit.

imported_Europe

07-21-2003, 12:10 PM

First it was the dot-com'ers that crashed. I hope the music-industry is next. I got no love for them. I mean just the name of them, MUSIC (something creative and enjoyable) and INDUSTRY (mass produced shit).
They got no love for me or musiclovers in general, they got love for the fucking dollar. So screw them all and lets hope they crash and something better rises from the ashes.

mr.yuck

07-21-2003, 04:18 PM

but if the music industry crashes...whe...where will i get any new ricky martin songs?

Smart

07-21-2003, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by bodice_ripper
dragging the "gay" tthing into it only weakens whatever argument you are trying to make, and you know it.

Whatever, your argument that you aren't hurting anybody but the 'record companies' smacks of self-entitlement and borderline retardedness...

I steal people's mortgage checks from the mail because the bank sucks!

I steal cars because Ford wastes so much money promoting the Escort!

I steal insulin from diabetics because the pharmaceutical companies suck!

I steal library books because the publishing companies suck!

None of you are hurting the 'Music industry' anymore than I'm hurting the 'construction industry' by buning down people's houses.

-MOE LESTER-

07-21-2003, 07:05 PM

mad magazine said it best in its 50 worst things about music

"RECORDING INDUSTRIES WHO CHARGE 18$ FOR A CD THAT COST 75 CENTS TO MAKE, THEN GO TO CONGRESS AND COMPLAIN THAT NAPSTER IS STEALING"

LIKE THOSE OVERPAID MUSICIANS REALLY NEED ANOTHER BENZ OR CRACK MONEY....FUCK THAT!

BROWNer

07-21-2003, 07:13 PM

this might interest some of you..or not, but it's worth
a read i think: http://www.irdial.com/free_and_easy.htm

Smart

07-21-2003, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by -MOE LESTER-
mad magazine said it best in its 50 worst things about music

"RECORDING INDUSTRIES WHO CHARGE 18$ FOR A CD THAT COST 75 CENTS TO MAKE, THEN GO TO CONGRESS AND COMPLAIN THAT NAPSTER IS STEALING"

LIKE THOSE OVERPAID MUSICIANS REALLY NEED ANOTHER BENZ OR CRACK MONEY....FUCK THAT!

Well, 1st off, I DO need another Benz... Mine is '75 4 cylinder with no a/c...

And, you're right, it only takes 75 cents to produce a cd... You might think this sounds cheap but you're probably thinking about all the composition and studio time and production costs and distribution costs and printing. Fortunately all that stuff happens in a vacuum (from what I understand we're to be karmically recompensed at the moment of death), so that's it, bottomline:

75cents

Weapon X

07-21-2003, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by StIdesChurch
see i download a fuckload but i also buy a shitload of cds. any group that i am impressed with from my downloads ill buy their cd. i listen to a lot of independent groups that i never would have heard of if it wasnt for kazaa and other download programs. so i mean, groups that i never would have heard of are getting money from me when i buy their cds.

if it wasn't for Napster, I'd be clueless to a lot of things. I download a lot of music, but I buy a lot, too. Nothing beats being able to hear an album before you cop it. Plus, it's a hell of a lot easier to make a mix cd with mp3s.

Smart

07-21-2003, 07:40 PM

just some surface level critique of that link...

"It is an anarchistic grass-roots, but high-tech, system of spreading music"
^ok, that's just a bunch of buzzwords designed to obfuscate... but...

"The above definition of Free implies that any tangible object cannot be made free. However, something that can be copied arbitrarily many times, like music, should be set free. When we say music, we mean the expression of ideas (in the form of a musical composition or a sound recording) on some medium, and not the medium itself. Thus you have the freedom to make a copy of a CD we've released, the freedom to download soundfiles of songs we've released from our servers on the Internet, the freedom to cover or improve upon a song we've released, as long as you do not profit from that copy or improvement."

OK, "something that can be copied arbitrarily many times, like music, should be set free"... It can't be copied arbitrarily UNTIL AFTER it has been created.

Further, the idea that a person 'trading' music doesn't profit is utterly stunted. Many of you have already said that you preview albums and songs that you decide wether to buy or not, there is your profit... You can spend money on stuff you like and not waste money on things you don't. And I'm ignoring the basic 'quality of life' issue that is the very reason humans enjoy(or profit spiritually from) music in the first place. I don't "profit" from eating an apple except it tastes good and sustains my life processes. It's againts the law to steal apples too... If you want free apples, plant a tree, if you want free music, make it yourself.

"Music is a creative process. Today, when a musician publishes music, i.e., exposes it to the outside world, only a privileged set of individuals are able to use the music as they please. However, the artist has drawn from the creativity of many other musicians and there is an existential responsibility placed upon them to give this back unconditionally, so creativity is fostered among people. As a dissenting opinion in the Vanna White vs. Samsung case [2], Judge Kozinski writes:
“All creators draw in part on the work of those who came before, referring to it, building on it, poking fun at it; we call this creativity, not piracy.”"

Right, Pablo Picasso and Salvador Dali never asked for a cent, freely distributing paintings like some sort of artistic Johnny Appleseed. Living off the land and painting with twigs and berries...

"First, limiting your creativity to specific audiences, especially based on monetary reasons, is shirking existential responsibility and destructive to society as a whole."
...sure it is...

"Second, it's fair that people pay for music only if they like it after listening to it first"
Uh... NO, I don't get to pay AFTER the movie or I'd be at least 7 bucks richer (Night at the Roxbury).

ANYWAY, I think that somebody put alot of time, and I'm sure thought, into that article but it is pretty much rife with bullshit in my opinion.

BROWNer

07-21-2003, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by BROWNer
this might interest some of you..or not, but it's worth
a read i think

first of all smart, good for you for actually reading that.
secondly, the ideas put forth are alternatives to
the problem and the incessant bickering; discourse.
so far all i see in this thread are b&w sides. you're either
for the destruction of major label corps and the music industry,
or you're not..but there's little in between. copyright issues are fucking
hugely complex. obviously alot more ideas need to be aired, no?
i'm not gonna parse out your statements smart, but
due to the complexity of it, some of your points and analogies
are also rife with probs.

Smart

07-21-2003, 08:30 PM

well Browner... I wasn't critiquing YOU, it was the article... I wondered if you'd feel like that and considered 'thanking you for sharing'

Basically, it breaks down like this... I'm all for discourse, I don't like Bodice, just because I insult her doesn't mean I'm mad at the world (or lesbians for that matter).... carry-on...

Dr. Dazzle

07-21-2003, 08:39 PM

Everybody I know downloads music as a means of getting exposure to new bands. Bands that I would otherwise have no other means of hearing. The only burnt CD I have in my record collection is a mix disc of Impossibles songs, which is only there temporarily until I can actually track the CD down. I don't have whole albums on my computer, I download a handful of songs by a band, then see if I like them enough to go and buy their CD. Which takes longer because CD's here average around $25. That's what most people I know do too. None of these bands are rich musicians living the high life. These are musicians that I want to support. But do I give a shit if Justin Timberlake loses one more ivory backscratcher from pirated music? Not at all.

Maybe instead of destroying music on the internet altogethr, they could put a limit on the number of songs from one album that you can get. Or do what Smart said. Fuck it, who even cares.....

By the way Smart what is the name of your band, unless of course you don't want anyone to know...

Rashomonster

07-21-2003, 08:41 PM

i don't know what moron pays 15-30 dollars for a cd. my god, the only time i've ever spent that much is when i was strictly buying imports or maybe some re-mastered release of a classic record or maybe even a box set. if you're paying whatever the sam goody's or hasting's or whatever the hole-in-the-mall shops are charging, then you're an idiot for blaming the riaa. check out what it costs to run that shop! it's called overhead my friend and that's where that wonderful thing called mark-up comes into effect. check amazon, the albums are pretty affordable. check best buy. you don't want to purchase from a retail chain, fine, check out the record lable your favorite bands off of and order it direct from them and sleep well at night knowing you showed the chains you weren't infected with their marketing-for-the-masses gimmick.

not buying the record fucks us all over. you think you're the shit because you've got 5000 mp3's and haven't spent a dime? fuck you. more than likely it's all shit and you rarely listen to any of it. and if you are listening to all of it, great! but, when you're waiting for your favorite band's next record and find they've been dropped from the label due to low sales and their newly recorded album is frozen in contractual limbo, well my friend, pat yourself on the back because you just helped the riaa develop a stronger case.

the funniest thing about this is how many of you bitch about clothing lines, television commercials and other posers jocking your shit to make a buck. what, like you wouldn't have been the dude that took a couple thousand to supervise the street cred of any advertisement. but i tell you what, if they took your shit without paying for it, i bet you'd be on that phone to your lawyer crying about your artistic rights and attempting to raise all kinds of hell....bitches.

BROWNer

07-21-2003, 08:50 PM

i know smart.
i agree with some of it, some of it i'm not sure.
overall i think it's an interesting idea, also considering
that irdial is an artist run label. but conversely
considering they release extremely obscure things that
would never make money in the first place.

maybe i'll post some things related to john oswald
and/or the whole negativeland/U2 thing..just for
shitto's.

Smart

07-21-2003, 09:00 PM

well... the band is pretty much down to me these days, but I'm calling myself:
Freezeplug featuring D. Malorkus

As for the songs I wrote, I don't wanna say but it was pretty much a fluke collaboration. Nothing like J.Timberlake but it did allright and got included on the original and now a compilation and a 'greatest hits' thing... the best year I ever had was about $3000 but I used to average about $800 a year... since Napster and everything it's down to about $300...

And Rashomonster is on it... Back in the day it was my generation and our money (and Ian MacKaye's blood sweat and tears, and touring) that enabled Dischord to survive...
Also, a good friend of mine recently got a dope deal from Netwerk (or something like that) where he got a bunch of old unreleased Skinny Puppy stuff and another deal where Nivek Ohgr and a collaborator who's name escapes me sent my boy a couple cd's every 3 months, limited edition (signed and numbered) new and previously unreleased...

Smart

07-21-2003, 09:05 PM

Negativland KICKS ASS!

I've loved them since Helter Stupid... my friend couldn't get in touch with me and I think I missed my only opportunity to see them live a year ago or so...

bodice_ripper

07-21-2003, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by Smart

Basically, it breaks down like this... I'm all for discourse, I don't like Bodice, just because I insult her doesn't mean I'm mad at the world (or lesbians for that matter).... carry-on...

And i don't like you either sMart.

And i still relish ripping off music.

Rashomonster

07-21-2003, 09:10 PM

don't get me wrong, i support file sharing to an extent and feel the end of napster was one of the great technological tragedies of our time. i feel that the riaa needs to reconsider it's role in the distribution of music and rethink it's relationship with it's artists. i do not feel the public is being represented fairly and that corporations are able to hide behind a veil of money, lobbyists, and a choice few artists who will never be satisfied with their greed. this institution has used liberal and conservative governments to their advantage and have made the public dizzy with legal jargon turning everyone against each other. so, i make this one thing clear, it's not the industry i support, it's the bands. unfortunately, a good deal of the money i spend will go to supporting it, but i feel good knowing that the band gets part of it or it goes to keeping said band afloat of the attempted debt the music industry inslaves it's recording artists with.

--zeSto--

07-21-2003, 09:34 PM

the bulk of my downloading is in the fourm of live mixes
that would be impossible to find elsewhere. If some dj plays
a set and only puts out a few hundred tapes then sells all the stock
and I happen to get an mp3 copy of it he's still made his money.
Somethings are just too rare to find a hardcopy of.

for example... Brainfreeze by Dj Shaddow and Cut Chemist was
made from a live set they did that involved thrashing a bunch of
incredibly rare 45's (some of which got stolen and cant be replaced).
So anyways they did a very limited run of discs that are fetching
up to $200 on some of the vinyl trader sites. Are the artists getting
$200 a disc? No. It's the rarity that makes it valuable. Well I got a copy
on mp3 and I have no reservations about it. There's no damn way
I would have heard the mix if I didn't get it on the download.