WHY DO PEOPLE BELIEVE IN GOD?

[nang'eds!]

why do people believe i god, could somebody please tell me. i have a personal opinon which i will express laer into this thread but first i need something to work with, so please someone give me an answer.

[KRONOLOGIK]

I am Jesus.

[iloveboxcars]

i'd rather just hear your opinion so i have something to work with.

use spell check.

[GLIK$]

To ease the fear of death.

[Dirty_habiT]

Everyone be careful about what they say, the "person" who started this thread could very well be God testing you. Amen brother.

[--zeSto--]

I think it's very simple.

People (myself included) need to feel like they are a part
of something bigger than just the individual. Sure we might
have been able to all be 'citizens of earth' but that would only
really work back in the pagan days. We want to know that there
is a higher power that is faultless and that there is a divine path
for us to follow. I'm trying my best to find that path of faith again
but I know just how easy it is to live without faith these days.

Sure the fear of death is a big one, but I think for me it's more the
fear of having lived a wasted life. It really all comes down to right
and wrong. If it's 'God's' plan for us to do right wit oursleves,
then we have no excuse to do wrong.

There's the judgement factor which is very important for society.
Some people think they are above the law or otherwise untouchable
but it's very important to order for everyone to think that we will
be judged on our actions and intentions. That's the glue of culture.

either way... I'm rediscovering my faith and tryingto get back on the
path that was set out for me. I've been living in Babylon for too long mon.

[GLIK$]

endless twat.

[suicidebombr]

Originally posted by Glik0
To ease the fear of death.

[nick5542]

i think kilo7 pretty much sumed it up unless he was bein a sarcastic ass....

[Dirty_habiT]

I found a bit of insight in what Kilo was saying.... I found a bit of humor in "endless twat" as well.

It's not too often that I hear someone talk or debate religion that can offer a feasible, in my mind, argument. Good stuff Kilo, and good luck with your search.

[KRONOLOGIK]

Religion is mythical...Time is money.

But hey, to each his own.

[--zeSto--]

I am usually a sarcastic ass but not this time.

I really think that a little more faith and a lot less dogma
would make the world a lot more livable.

wasn't there a thread on the power of prayer a while back?
Anyone care to bump it up?

[nick5542]

Originally posted by Kilo7-
I am usually a sarcastic ass but not this time.

I really think that a little more faith and a lot less dogma
would make the world a lot more livable.

wasn't there a thread on the power of prayer a while back?
Anyone care to bump it up?


word, well then im totally agreeing with you. dont remember that thread but ill try to find it.

[KRONOLOGIK]

Originally posted by Kilo7-
I am usually a sarcastic ass but not this time.

I really think that a little more faith and a lot less dogma
would make the world a lot more livable.

wasn't there a thread on the power of prayer a while back?
Anyone care to bump it up?

:rolleyes:

[WebsterUno]

I believe there is something, but with GOD, Buddah,
Allah, a comet, and all those other gods out there..
I dont know what is the truth anymore. Ive never
been into church..I only go for weddings, baptismals,
and funerals. Can someone explain what religion is
the right one? Ive always wondered who was right.

I do believe....in righteousness. (sp)

[--zeSto--]

Originally posted by WebsterUno
Can someone explain what religion is
the right one? Ive always wondered who was right.(sp)

good luck man.

I personally have found a view based on the original
God of Abraham (the father of Christians, Jews and Islamics)
where there is only one allmighty being and its way beyond our
punny little minds to ever understand it. So we just do our best
and try to improve upon ourselves untill we might reach some
kind of (budhist or zen) enlightenment about oursleves.

Understanding yourself and your flaws is key to submitting to a higher power.

[--zeSto--]

Originally posted by KRONOLOGIK
:rolleyes:

what are you rolling your eyes at?

[KRONOLOGIK]

your comments.

[kemekill]

Originally posted by WebsterUno
I believe there is something, but with GOD, Buddah,
Allah, a comet, and all those other gods out there..
I dont know what is the truth anymore. Ive never
been into church..I only go for weddings, baptismals,
and funerals. Can someone explain what religion is
the right one? Ive always wondered who was right.

I do believe....in righteousness. (sp)

Well, I think, if there really is/was a "god" he wouldn't give a fuck what religion you practiced, or if you spent every waking hour in a church praising him. Ultimately, I think it would come down to how you lived your life, if you were a sincere caring individual and actually put others lives, ideals, etc... into perspective and lived a good life then you would be accepted and loved by god and get into heaven (or whatever). But, if you lived you life fucking people over, being an asshole, filled with greed and hate...well then gods gonna torture you for all of eternity.

But will never know til we die...

[KRONOLOGIK]

Originally posted by Kilo7-
good luck man.

there is only one allmighty being and its way beyond our
punny little minds to ever understand it.



:lol:

[imported_suburbian bum]

I dont think as god as someone who sits in the sky and judges people or makes some shit happen.

God for me is like the universal life force that connects everyone and everything in the universe....
I swear im not a hippie.

Also I beleive after you die, you die everything is eternally black. And we are here to learn and experience life to its fullest, as well as loving people and things.

[GLIK$]

I have many different ideas on religion. It ends up being on of the topics me and my nikazas talk about often. I, myself, don't believe in an afterlife or an almighty power.

To me religion was created and then adapted and altered to suit an individual need. People take it to ease the fear that one day, an end. Nothingness. Who wants to realize that one day their body will sit in a box(if lucky) and fester away? No one. They want to believe that when theyre done here on this rock they get the ultimate prize. Eternity with clouds and pink flowers.

People also love the idea of being repaid for their good-doings. So its set forth that if youre a good person, helping grandmas across streets, attending church raffles, baking cupcakes for the homeless, that one day upon your demise you will be rewarded for all your kinda actions.

And the theory of hell. Being bad makes you go to hell. BURN BURN dead dead, devils pitchforks in the ass kinda deal. Religion is used as a sort of deturant(sp)...being your shepard so to speak. At a young age the fear of hell is burned into you and youre told to be a good person under fear that you wont be allowed past the pearly gates and get sodomized by the devil. But if you're a good person you get on the big man's good side. Which then entitles you to enternal happiness and bliss. No premarital sex children, we don't want over population, STDs, and teen pregnancy running rampant....uh I mean god frowns upon that. Wait you dont get pregnant from swallowing(No tease you dont)? Well then god says oral sex is teh suck(no pun).

Kinda sorta see what im getting at?

And I also agree with Kilodawgz statement about wanting to be part of a larger group of people. To feel some kind of comroddery(sp) with your fellow man. I mean your church members and leaders are supposed to be the people you can trust more than anyone(Especially with your kids).

All in all, I try to not think of a higher power trying to guide me and the rest of humanity in the right path. God works in mysterious ways...just like the Bush administration.

[atrocks]

i always had trouble believing i was an accident or a decendant of a shit hurling monkey....but thats just me....

[--zeSto--]

well put bigM.

I guess it's just that we are all here and I like to think
that we all have similar purposes and are all the same
deep down on the inside. I like to think that Dubya and
some poor child in Africa are going to be judged on the
same scale. Money doesn't buy you out of humanity.

Think about some old woman in the middle of nowhere
who lives life in harmony with the world and is nice to
everyone she meets. She honestly cares about life and
has learned to be happy with what she has. Now would this
'good' person be doomed to 'hell' because she didn't worship
but she actually lived the way most people cant? I'd hope not.

[rip]

Originally posted by nang'eds!
why do people believe i god, could somebody please tell me. i have a personal opinon which i will express laer into this thread but first i need something to work with, so please someone give me an answer. because they were missled there whole life and brainwashed. me on the other hand have a strong will against that type of stuff, so i am god free.

[rip]

Originally posted by mr.pescado
i always had trouble believing i was an accident or a decendant of a shit hurling monkey....but thats just me.... ask your parents eventually theyll tell you the truth. "son, you were an accident"

[space base]

I aint been straight with god since he dropped my ass on earth.

[Father John]

you turn into a ghost.

[yoink]

Why NOT?

[--zeSto--]

why not indeed?

I mean if it's such a gamble... what's there to loose?
I've slowly making my way though the Quar'an and
just like all the other 'holy books', there's some good
lessons on How to Live. It was the practice of Islam that
kept that part of the world from descending into the dark
ages while Christiandom did. They set down rules about
what was safe to eat (to prevent disease) how often and
how you should wash (to prevent disease) and even how
to deal with the dead (also to keep your ass healthy).
The whole time the 'West' was inflicted wit hthe plague and
all types of hideous 'punishments', the Arab world was self
sustaining and looking out for the people.

Even if this practice of 'religion' is nothing more than a way
to set out some simple guidelines for living you life, well it's
accomplished a lot. Keep in mind that I'm not a church goer
or in defence of the things that happen in 'God's Name',
but there are good things being done.

would charity exist without religion?
I think not.

[yoink]

Kilo bringing the insight today ladies and gents.

Bravo!

[--zeSto--]

[img]http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian/2001/December/Images/Swami.jpg'>

Swami Kilo


- keep a man from sleeping for over 30 hours and he'll start to get really insightfull.

[casekonly]

"god is a concept, by which we measure our pain." -john lennon

[DEE38]

Its hard to explain:(

[GLIK$]

Originally posted by Kilo7-
- keep a man from sleeping for over 30 hours and he'll start to get really insightfull.


your job must really, really, reeeeeally suck.

[Dr. Dazzle]

"God is a concept, by which we measure our pain"

- John Lennon, "God"

[--zeSto--]

Originally posted by Glik0
your job must really, really, reeeeeally suck.

au contraire mon frere,
My job is increbile. I love this job.
Sometimes I have to pull marathons but it sure
beats working in retail or some factory. I mean really,
this is the kind of job some people spend years in school
to get but they still end up being clerks at blockbuster.
And the pay is pretty good too!

[phism]

man created god, MAN CREATED GOD!

[krie]

everyone chooses to belive in something, its an act of hope

[Grandola]

"pain is weakness leaving the body" - the marines...
( i read this on some girls shirt today @ school.)

i'm a god person. i believe in god, just because. no real reason or evidence or nothin... its just something i believe. its kinda like love, you can't really prove love exists, but you know its there.

[--zeSto--]

well without sounding all smug,
I really think that it's possible to find a new relationship
with a higher power that isn't follwing the traditional BS
that the Roman Catholic church wants you to deal with.
It really becomes a personal thing you have to discover.

I think that every needs to find their own faith.
Doing exactly what the church or your parents suggest
wont actually make you a believer. I think going out into
the forrest and standing next to a giant redwood while holding
a seed in your hand is proof enough that there's so much more
than our 'puny little minds' will ever really be able to understand.


*2

[GLIK$]

Originally posted by Kilo7-
au contraire mon frere,
My job is increbile. I love this job.
Sometimes I have to pull marathons but it sure
beats working in retail or some factory. I mean really,
this is the kind of job some people spend years in school
to get but they still end up being clerks at blockbuster.
And the pay is pretty good too!

Damn you for having a job you can actually like.
But alas you're Canadian so I get the last laugh.
Haha cheers mate.

[--zeSto--]

unless the job is something you like,
marathon shifts will kill you. Personally I think the only
good marathons are the ones in bed.

and glik0... when you dodge the next draft, I'll buy you a moosehead*

*that's a beer.

[ClueTwo]

Originally posted by Grandola
"pain is weakness leaving the body" - the marines...
( i read this on some girls shirt today @ school.)

i'm a god person. i believe in god, just because. no real reason or evidence or nothin... its just something i believe. its kinda like love, you can't really prove love exists, but you know its there.

Now that sums it up.....

[Dirty_habiT]

God would've struck me with lightning by now.

[--zeSto--]

Originally posted by Dirty_habiT
God would've struck me with lightning by now.

naw..... cursed from birth.

[shaolinmasta]

This is my view i believe in god and jesus i do believe that jesus has come to earth to fix it up when it got hektic and jesus will return soon to fix it up again because you have to agree it is getting worse,

anyways god has set these rules to go by to keep humanity in check so we have a conciense whenever we commit sins, but as you all know humans are fuck ups we can be good and we can also be evil its human nature (when we ate the apple it gave us knowledge of good and bad so giving us bad thoughts). (later on in the bible it says that god was upset for what we were thinking but then realised that it is what we chose and got over it).

we are curious like when god said dont eat that apple we had to go and eat it. It's just plain curiosity we like to learn about things (science)

we are still shit breeds when we get to evolve use a bit more brain capacity i think we will evolve into a god-like creature (god made us in his reflection/form/of himself whatever) meaning he made us exactly like him


probalby no where near as powerful but pretty close when we can control ourselves

religion can be hard to understand because you havent seen it for yourself but trust me its there true

ever tried praying and when your finished you are swept with calmness or when you enter church you feel at peace?

anyways thats it for now.

[Skeletor]

My only fear of death is coming back reincarnated. A little tupac for you.

[krs702]

the idea of being alone. and alone is a perpetual fear for the majority of people so they seek some sort of refuge and God just happens to be the best choice..

when i think of religion i think of people who devour themselves in dependence on something that is so erroneous its unheard of.. its all social pressures, the same fucking process..kids are raised by christian parents and forced into a world of christianity..they are raised as a christian and as they get older it becomes so permanent to them that they know nothing else or will accept anything else...when i was in 6th grade i felt my self saying "i need to be a christian because everybody else is".. christianity is a social pressure

what is good? what is bad? why cant you form your own principles? why must you follow a pre set life of pre planned standards? of course that can be seen in modern day society with.. eat.work.sleep. birth.school.college.family.death.

its more like this whole fuckin society has turned into robots who somehow obtained an emotional chip.

nobody questions anymore..

i can get more into this but later

[KaBar2]

It is an amazing book. One of my favorite passages, which is often quoted by ultra-fundamentalists, is Mark 16:15. It's what Jesus said to the eleven faithful disciples when he rose again from the dead--he was rebuking them for their lack of faith:



"Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whosoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. AND THESE SIGNS WILL ACCOMPANY THOSE WHO BELIEVE: In my name, they will drive out demons, they will speak in new tongues, they will PICK UP SNAKES WITH THEIR HANDS, and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all, they will place their hands on sick people and they will get well."




Well, this makes for some VERY interesting church services, let me tell you! Ain't nothing like a box of rattlesnakes and a quart jar of strychnine to spice up your typical Methodist 11:00 Sunday service, by golly. You go up there to the mountains of North Carolina, and buddy, they take their faith SERIOUSLY, LOL. Speaking in tongues, snake handling, drinking diluted strychnine, faith healing by the laying on of hands and pleadin' the Blood. Hell, yeah. And first-class fiddle and banjo music accompanying the hymns, too.

And in addition to that (as if that wasn't enough) I have some acquaintences who are polygamists, as well. One guy and his wives lives right here in Houston.

[Rodney Trotter]

All religion, and religious books are the work of man. You're born, you reproduce, you die, the end. That's all there is. Have fun!

[nick5542]

Originally posted by Rodney Trotter
All religion, and religious books are the work of man. You're born, you reproduce, you die, the end. That's all there is. Have fun!

you seem pretty sure, what are your sources?

[Rodney Trotter]

My sources are my complete life experiences. I've never come across a single solitary piece of evidence that would point me to believing that there is a higher being/after life, but I have come across countless instances and examples that would lead me to think the contrary. And you can't deny that all religion is man made. The bible/koran etc is the word of god? On whose authority - another man's of course. I've weighed up the odds, and thats the conclusion I have come to.

[Abracadabra]

Originally posted by Rodney Trotter
My sources are my complete life experiences. I've never come across a single solitary piece of evidence that would point me to believing that there is a higher being/after life, but I have come across countless instances and examples that would lead me to think the contrary. And you can't deny that all religion is man made. The bible/koran etc is the word of god? On whose authority - another man's of course. I've weighed up the odds, and thats the conclusion I have come to.

and i'm inclined to agree with you. amen

[nang'eds!]

I think people believe in God because it saves them having to work out the meaning of life for themselves. The downside of this is that all their life experiences are veiwed in context with the book of rules handed to them by their chosen God.

If you don't believe in a God you can evaluate all your life experiences youself and come to your own conclusions. You can take an independant view on moral issues without having to abide by a book of rules that may be out of date with way society has progressed and developed throughout history.

My real problem with believing in a God is that those who do often support organised religions who have been responsible for wars, persecutions and segregation for the last few thousand years. These immensely wealthy institutions could afford to pay off the third world debt, end starvation and build hospitals and schools for all the worlds poor.

But they don't.

They argue and amass wealth. They cause war and engender hatred. It's a frightening fact that if I were to mention one word here against some mainsteam Gods they would send an assassin round to kill me. This is a fact. Gods and their supporters are highly jealous and defensive. On the surface they are all love, doves, sweetness and light. But underneath they support murder, persecution, genocide and war.

Look around you. Past or present, history supports this.

[Smart]

God is good...

He's reassurance that things happen for a reason, He's the one you can turn to with the things you can't tell anyone else, He's an invisible ally when you are all alone...

He has a REALLY fucking cool house/place
He can see everything like Santa
He has probably helped your favorite team win
He MIGHT be able to make a rock so heavy that even he Himself cannot lift it
He can probably fly
He... uh... invented trees and sharks and blimps and boogers

He also does the dirty bits you don't want to do yourself...
He makes the rules; He passes judgement...

[Dick Quickwood]

you people who don't beleive in god, what do you do when things become more than you can bear ? i know it's easy to look down upon religion and say it's for the weak, hell, i get the urge to do that myself sometimes, but when worse comes to worse, what do you do ? me, i rely on god when there's nothing else. i know i need to rely on god more often, it makes for a calmer person.

[nG]

Originally posted by ARCEL
you people who don't beleive in god, what do you do when things become more than you can bear ? i know it's easy to look down upon religion and say it's for the weak, hell, i get the urge to do that myself sometimes, but when worse comes to worse, what do you do ? me, i rely on god when there's nothing else. i know i need to rely on god more often, it makes for a calmer person.

i rely on myself.

[Smart]

I look into myself... I have faith but it's mostly based on logic and fatalism... I don't believe in God or ask for support or anything, I just have faith that life will go on, any personal conflict of trouble is insignificant in the greater schame of things, which I consider to be quite disorganized and unordered... maybe it's luck, maybe it's hope but no matter what happens, if I'm alive I must remain.

I suppose I'm closer to a buddhist than an atheist, but perhaps even closer to agnosticism.

[Dick Quickwood]

what about when relying on yourself just dosen't cut it ? if you are telling me you have never been in a situation like that, i envy you

in response to ng

[Smart]

Originally posted by ARCEL
what about when relying on yourself just dosen't cut it ?

What are you talking about? I lost my mother when I was 15, I've lost an Uncle and both Grandmothers, I've lost 9 VERY close friends to drugs, cars and suicide. I've lost every girl I've ever loved. I've lost my passion to write, and to 'write' and to really write music. I've lost everything but... I remain, what would you have me do?

One could make an argument that God is inside us all, and MANY do, but I choose to believe that I am God and just as impotent as any God in the Bible.

[Joker]

If you truly do believe in God and follow the bible, or whichever book you may try desperately to understand, you wouldn't be a writer. Unless, of course, you're a legal eagle wall painter. If you bomb, hit freights or transit, put up stickers... any of that kind of stuff... and you believe in God and the bible, well then... you're living a lie. You might as well be Catholic.

[Dirty_habiT]

Hahahaa.... I love religious wars. I've argued religion and politics tooooooo many times to even feel like trying my hand at this one. You all are doing a good job (heh not to *judge* anyone).

[Rodney Trotter]

Originally posted by Smart
One could make an argument that God is inside us all, and MANY do, but I choose to believe that I am God and just as impotent as any God in the Bible.

I think the word you were looking for is 'important'.

[Dirty_habiT]

im·po·tent ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mp-tnt)
adj.

1. Lacking physical strength or vigor; weak.
2. Lacking in power, as to act effectively; helpless: “Technology without morality is barbarous; morality without technology is impotent” (Freeman J. Dyson).
3.
1. Incapable of sexual intercourse, often because of an inability to achieve or sustain an erection.
2. Sterile. Used of males.
4. Obsolete. Lacking self-restraint.




No dude, I think he meant impotent. hahaha, bzzzz try again.

[se_FOUR]

"smart" or not??

you decide..

[Rodney Trotter]

Hmm, I am very well aware of what impotent means, thank you Dirty. In the context of what he was talking about, I think he meant to say important.

Come on Smart, what did you mean to say???

[Dirty_habiT]

Ok, he was saying that he was JUST AS impotent as any god in the bible because the god in the bible can't do anything more than Smart can. And I don't think he would've fucked that word up, good try though... I still vote for you're wrong. Important is middle school vocabulary.

[Rodney Trotter]

yeah yeah...maybe.

[--zeSto--]

ok then Joker....

So if you're a strict folower of the faith then you shouldnt be writing?
I do agree that all of the major religions are strongly against acts
of mischief (especially the Islamics) but again those books are ment
as a guide, not as a law. It's only the men of the cloth that made these
words into law. And think about this one for a minute....

Do you (Joker) feel that you've been given a gift with art?
Sure you work hard at what you do and it's been a long path
to where you are now, but dont you ever wonder 'Why me?'
Ever suppose that you have found the path you're supposed to
be on though this lifetime? Not every creature has to live like a
monk to be doing God's work. I personally think that reaching your
absolute potential is the only thing we can really do to appease
this higher power. Dogma and ritual is NOT why we are here.
I think we are here to used the gifts and the blessings we have.
If there is a 'Dude-God' in the sky watching us, the one thing that
must truly bother him is a life squandered.

Writing your name on things is nothing compared to that.

[T E A S E R]

peep the sig... :lol:

i have lost faith... in everything and everyone.

[Spoter]

if there's a god how come there are so many religions and beliefs?

i don't believe in god because of social, political, historical, scientific reasons....and because i take responsibillity for my own actions.



all those holy books are primitive works of crap written by superstitious men several hundred years ago.it's a myth to me how people in this modern society still rely on their answers based on such garbage.aren't you an individual enough to make your own mind about what's right and wrong?there's a "god" within each of us.

[--zeSto--]

^ those who forget the past are condemend to repeat it.

It's really easy to say that the old ways are out of touch
with how things should be done now, but there was some
truth to it all. The simple rules of human decency and right vs.
wrong haven't changed that much. Again it's not the words that
matter in the ancient texts, it's the spirit of those words and how
that spirit gives people stregnth.

example:
Back in the day pigs were filthy poison that you should eat.
The religious leaders of the day said 'Dont eat swine' and many
people lived because of those rules. Well pork is fine to eat today
but many people choose not to. Why? Because it's a very simple
act that gives them more conviction. They dont have to sacrafice
their first born son, but they can offer a sacrifice to something
bigger than them.

People these days try to over complicate religion.
Religion is not an elaborate 'matrix' code that you
need to decypher. It's as simple as wathing a seed become a tree
and admiting that there's no way for us to understand it's true nature.

[RiANEMeTion-]

I try not to belive in anything..makes me feel better about my self when I find out the truth..

[WebsterUno]

Originally posted by Kilo7-
Think about some old woman...

Thats what Im talking about.
I think the only real bad things
I do is paint, and puff on some reefer.
I do a lot of things for people.
I give homeless people change.
Ive served up breakfast and lunch
on thanksgiving for a homeless shelter.
I repspect my elders. I dont fight people
for no reason. I never killed anyone.
I dont steal from people. Basically,
I try to follow a straight path, except
for 2 things. If there is a God, Im hoping
he wont trip on that stuff, and my ghetto
pass into heaven wont get revoked.

One thing that always gets me.
I always get people wanting me to
attend their church. I refrain from
going because of what I said about not
knowing what is the truth. Plus, I would
feel like Im lying to myself. I know
most of the people wouldnt understand
what Im all about, and would not accept
my faults. They would most likely expect
me to change my 'bad ways'. I tell them
Im a good person, and that I dont need to
go to church to prove that. They say I need
to go anyway, to hear the word of god and
praise him. I dont know..to me its like kissing
ass to get into heaven.

[--zeSto--]

That's the big thing with all the major faiths:
You have to repent for your sins and stop doing them.

We're only human and we do have faults.
I dont believe a higher power would forget that
and expect us to all live like mother Teresa.
We can't say things like 'Well I'm just a murdering cheat,
and that's how God made me'. But there are little things
about our character that we should try to improve upon.
Things like being honest and accountable are good for the
people we deal with and for ourselves.

[BigOatser]

I um......dont care. I rarely think about this. Nothing miraculously good ever happens to me, and I never get really depressed. I dont believe in Karma either. Maybe balance, not karma or fate. It just has no effect on my life so I never stop to wonder. Show me the light, and I will believe. If not, I could never make myself.

[--zeSto--]

all of these people seem to say
'Oh yeah God, prove it and then I'll believe'

Well then that makes faith useless.
With confirmation, faith becomes redundant.
I have faith in gravity. Wait.. it's a fact gravity exists
so I'd be a fool not to believe in it. Sorry buy religion
doesn't work like that. And like I've said before a few times...

You want proof that there's something much greater than us at work here?
Look at a redwood seed. Then look at the tree. Do you ever think
we'll ever be able to really understand how that works, let alone
recreate that miracle for ourselves?

even if you dont believe in a higher power,
it's hard to believe in all the miracles we now take for granted.

[WebsterUno]

Then I should be all good.
As long as I stay on track.

[KRONOLOGIK]

There's no fate but what we make for ourselves.

[ODS-1]

Because they don't believe in themselves.

[Smart]

Originally posted by Dirty_habiT
Ok, he was saying that he was JUST AS impotent as any god in the bible because the god in the bible can't do anything more than Smart can. And I don't think he would've fucked that word up, good try though... I still vote for you're wrong. Important is middle school vocabulary.

We HAVE a winnah!

Gold Stars for DHabz.

[Father John]

WHY DID GOD KILL THE DINOSAURS...

[Dirty_habiT]

I'm gonna go with Spot on this one.... how come there's so many religions? Everyone believes there religion is the correct one, so does that make people following other religions wrong and incorrect? When everyone's dead, who's religion is right? Where are all the dead people waiting to be judged? What physical space does this "limbo" realm occupy? Is heaven in the sky? No, is hell beneath our feet? No.... who has the answers, I know it's not in a book, it's not in someone's knowledge.

People follow religion to believe their life has purpose and meaning. They want to believe that they are here for a reason, and not just to live and die and suck the earth for all it's got. Does praying to something that's not physically there make the shittyness you've caused go away? Does it make it not wrong? Are your sins even really sins? I've got alot of questions, that nobody has answers to, not even a church, I don't buy that shit. I'd have to say I'm most apologetic to Kilo, because he seems to be on the right track to forgiveness. I live by "to each their own."

[imported_El Mamerro]

Originally posted by WebsterUno
Then I should be all good.
As long as I stay on crack.

[--zeSto--]

Does praying to something that's not physically there make the shittyness you've caused go away?

I think it can.
Having a positive mindset can make positive things happen.
Sure some people feel that they are being 'punished' by god
which is why their life is such shit. They might think that they
need to give more money to the collection, or even act out
all the crazy things they hear in there head. These people are
for the most part, fucked up, and a bad example of my point.

Think of the exercise of visualisation.
This may sound like some Tony Roberts bullshit to some of you,
but unless you can see it happening first in your mind, you will
not be able to make it happen in reality. Well I think prayer works
a lot like that. If you choose to pray, well you're mentaly preparing
yourself for things. Now just dont make psycho prayers or your
kids will end up like Carrie. Remeber that movie?

so yeah... the belief in God can be a self-fulfilling prophecy,
and I honestly believe that no positive thought or action is wasted.



and dirty... I agree with 'to each his own'... I'm just finding my own

[Dirty_habiT]

and I agree with no positive thought or action is wasted..... I guess it's all about what makes *you* happy.... some people use religion.... others don't. The one thing I cannot stand more than anything is people pressing their religion upon me. Like Mormons knocking on my door, that makes me furious. The reason why I respect your opinions and way of thinking so much is that you are not trying to press anything upon anyone here.... and that's very good in my book.

[WebsterUno]

Dont confuse me with yourself, trekkie.

:lol:

[WebsterUno]

*I was talking to Mammerro*

[--zeSto--]

well yeah dhabs...

I honestly believe that unless you find some answers for yourself,
none of the things other people press on you will matter. Mormons
think they are doing the good thing, but is getting more sheep for
the flock a good thing? I would much rather see a convention of
sheppards who can all stand alone yet still know they are on the
same path. And most of the *sheep* aren't happy with what they have.
It's really easy to live a miserable life and go to church on Sunday
and think that everything will be good in the afterlife. Well if there is
some reward/punishment at the end of this life, it would take an entire
life to earn that reward. People should be able to have a few black
marks on their record without being labeled as 'bad' for ever. I mean
look at all the felons who have found religion and then made serious
efforts to improve themselves and their community. They might be
a little brainwashed, but if they've found a life outside of crime,
great for them.

damn... I'm running with this thread.

[Don't Panic]

I think that evidence for "god" is just as good as the evidence for most other things.
So..... Why not?

[GucciCondom]

I think that there is a god. If you look into all the crazy miracles and bleeding statues and stigmatas and etc. it makes you think. Like my mom was telling me one time how when she was young there was this lady from mexico or some shit like that who came here because she was real religious and was about to be promoted to some high status and the day she left some statues in her church did that bleeding shit and on the way she was saying how she got some kind if crazy message and the first night she was here there was a really bad storm like the worst we ever had and she died in her sleep. So I don't know but crazy shit like that makes me believe. I don't think about god that much and I havn't prayed since I was like 4 and I havn't been in church since about 5th grade but I do believe I just don't base my life around a church.

[KaBar2]

^^^ Very profound. And a hell of a run-on sentence, too.

[kemekill]

Originally posted by Kilo7-
why not indeed?


would charity exist without religion?
I think not.

What do charity and religion have to do with each other? Well sure, somewhat but they not dependant on each other. I can give a dollar to a hobo without telling him to worship Allah, right?

[Joker]

Originally posted by Dirty_habiT
... Like Mormons knocking on my door, that makes me furious.

That cracked me up. Because around these parts that happens too often.

My wife is a Jehovah's Witness so I get to hear all about how their religion is the right one and all other religions have major faults. And she loves to point them out for me. She'll get frustrated with people on street corners preaching out loud, saying that it says in the bible not to do that. Yet on the next block there's a JW handing out the Watchtower. Not forcing anyone o take itmind you but still there on the corner with a copie for the taking. A lot less forceful than the guy at the other corner screaming in your ear. I can handle the morning visits from Mormons and I can handle my wife's family. What I can't handle is the hipocritical nature that tends to come along with religion. And being that I'm completely against religion it has made that part of our marriage interesting.

What I find more interesting is that a guy on the street corner can preach all day long, as loud as he wants... with large signs backing his words up and that's okay. No one steps in. But as soon as a guy wearing all black holding a sign that says "Satan loves you too" and reading from the satanic bible, he's arrested. Why? What's wrong with his view? Is it not a religion? Is he not aloud his own personal opinion like the other cat? Was he doing any more harm than the next guy? No. For some reason though... he found himself in jail. And I think that's wrong. Not because I'm on the satanic side of the bible belt but because he had every right to be there as the next guy.

[bodice_ripper]

because its easier than believing in death

[--zeSto--]

so joker... any reply to my comments above?

[RiANEMeTion-]

(A)AATHIIIZM <~

[SteveAustin]

Joker...I work with a JW and I get to hear all about it as well. While its not "illegal" to marry outside of the religion, I know its seriously frowned upon. What do her parents think about her marrying a heathen like you? One of the things I find most interesting in witnesses is their refusal to take anyone else's blood or organs...due to their belief that theirs is sacred.

I was born and raised Catholic, but I don't go to church anymore. I kinda think of myself as a cathoholic now. All the guilt and drinking, but non practicing. My general thoughts on religion as a whole are that they are all just different interpretations (mainly geological) on the same belief that there is a god. Granted there are some religions that I think are complete horse-shit.

I also think that religion in general helps keep the world a civil civilization. Just think what the world would be like if there wasn't the fear of being responsible for your actions on earth. One of the funny things I've found is that a majority of people that don't believe in god...somehow believe in Karma.

[GnomeToys]

This is the correct religion. (http://www.subgenius.com)

[RiANEMeTion-]

This is the correct religion.>>>THIS SITE IS GOD. (http://www.12ozprophet.com) <<<<<

[T E A S E R]

I DONT KNOW WHY!!!

PEOPLE SHOULD START BELIEVING IN ME!!!

:idea:

[RiANEMeTion-]

Sure why not..I have nothing better to do that praise the all mighty tease day in and day out.and once befor every meal..

[Joker]

Kilo... I think, considering the discussion that you've been extremely level headed. I just wanted to put that out there first. As for comments on your posts... I tend to agree with you on just about everything concerning reasons why people believe in God. It does work for some people and it does do some good. I would never deny that. Like I said, it's the hipocrits that kill it for me. I also grew up across the street from a Catholic church with an all girl school right next door. I went to public school but it was after school that I learned the most... from a bedroom window. Ultimately, whatever works... works. I brought up things like vandalism because I feel if you'r egoing to believe in something than do it. Don't half-ass it... like church on Sunday after a Saturday night of bombing and binge drinking. I of course was not pointing that out to you for any other reason than to add to your topic. And no, I don't think it's okay to have a few black marks on your register at the end of the day. Like I said, if you're going to believe in something then believe in it. Otherwise you're a hipocrit. That's just how I see it, my stupid opinion. It's brash and a bit unrealistic but when it comes to religion I'm not forgiving. I know not everyone who believes in God is a freak but it's the case the of the few bad apples that spoil the whole basket for me. But then I think of all the funny jokes and I'm glad religion is here to stay.

"Jesus saves, passes to Gretzky... he shoots, HE SCORES!!!"

Steve...
" Joker...I work with a JW and I get to hear all about it as well. While its not "illegal" to marry outside of the religion, I know its seriously frowned upon. What do her parents think about her marrying a heathen like you? One of the things I find most interesting in witnesses is their refusal to take anyone else's blood or organs...due to their belief that theirs is sacred. "

At first it was really harsh. Her whole family lives in the area and her immediate family are all Witnesses. We moved in together about a year before we married because financially it just made sense. That floored everyone of them. By the time we got married none of the rsvp'd to come to the wedding. That floored me. My wife expected it. It took about eighteen months for them to come around and treat me like part of the family. At first I was the half-dead guy who was married to their daughter. A daughter who will die alone. My wife says that they keep praying that I'll come around and take up being a JW. Though she and I both know it'll never happen. No amount of miracles is going to work that kind of magic on me. And the mor ethey get to know me the more they realize this. I think what I have going for me is that I have / had an interesting life. What I do and have done. For them it's a great topic of conversation and for me it's a way to communicate with them about something other than why they couldn't put their beliefs aside for an hour and come to our wedding. I'll never forgive them for it, never. As I'm sure they'll never forgive me for marrying their daughter.
As for the blood and organ issue... I actually side with them. And did before I met my wife. There's safe and reliable alternatives to blood transfusions and have been for some time. It's common knowledge that taking someone elses blood only makes your body work that much harder to cure itself. I won't even go into the risks of disease. Organs are another issue that I don't know much about. Though I've always felt that if I'm on the table and under the knife and I've got a 50-50 chance of living unless I get a donor organ... let me go. I've lived a colorful life and had a good time. Just let me go.

[GLIK$]

Originally posted by Joker
"Jesus saves, passes to Gretzky... he shoots, HE SCORES!!!"

This made my day.

[WebsterUno]

I hear you on the hypocrite
part. I know waaay too many
in the closet "backsliders".
I know a christian girls thats
all hoed out. I know a christian
man that smokes pot when his kids
are asleep. He preaches to me the
most. I know a few writers that
go to church. Its those things
that made me not follow religion.
I used to think it was all bullshit.
I still do at times. That why I asked
those questions. I was raised catholic,
but I dont practice. I have a child,
and my family asks me when Im going
to start taking her to church. She was baptised.
Im guessing I will raise her catholic, but
non-practicing. For the same reasons
I dont go to church. I dont like lying to myself,
or to people in general. So why be a hypocrite.
Joker, what if you ever had kids? What then?
Thats pretty jacked that her fam didnt go to the
wedding. Thats just foul. I dont blame you for
holding a grudge. Thats what Im saying, religion
is waaay to strict for a person like me. They would
never accept the things I do. In the eyes of most
religious people, I could be considerd a demon!

:mad: :lol:

[Spoter]

Originally posted by SteveAustin
Joker...I work with a JW and I get to hear all about it as well. While its not "illegal" to marry outside of the religion, I know its seriously frowned upon. What do her parents think about her marrying a heathen like you? One of the things I find most interesting in witnesses is their refusal to take anyone else's blood or organs...due to their belief that theirs is sacred.

I was born and raised Catholic, but I don't go to church anymore. I kinda think of myself as a cathoholic now. All the guilt and drinking, but non practicing. My general thoughts on religion as a whole are that they are all just different interpretations (mainly geological) on the same belief that there is a god. Granted there are some religions that I think are complete horse-shit.

I also think that religion in general helps keep the world a civil civilization. Just think what the world would be like if there wasn't the fear of being responsible for your actions on earth. One of the funny things I've found is that a majority of people that don't believe in god...somehow believe in Karma.


actually a big reason i'm strongly against organised religion is because in my opinion it has caused nothing but ignorrance and wars and terrorism.once you seclude yourself entirely only to your own, you draw a thick wall between you and others that were raised to think or are different.i want to emphasize on "raised to think different", because most of religious people are simply raised to belive in jesus, mohammed, buddah etc.it's more of a tradition rather a belief.i'm atheist and i treat all people and religions the same and equal.religious people tend to believe their religion is right and preach to others.that's one thing that bothers me more than anything else.it creates boundaries.

[bronxcutie]

You guys had some really good opinions i would have never been able to put that kinda stuff in to words to be honest i thought this thread was gonna b stupid stuff like i hate god hahaah how is he real blah blah blah
but it wasnt i was surprised :eek:

[Firetruck]

why DON'T people belive in God?

[Dirty_habiT]

wow, some of us are intelligent, wow.

edit: directed towards bronxcutie

[Smart]

Hard times in life, hard times in death
I'm gonna keep on fighting to my very last breath

[Joker]

Originally posted by WebsterUno

Joker, what if you ever had kids? What then?


At first I didn't understand your question, but I think I do now. You're asking how they would be raised. As a JW or not. Honestly, I'm very supportive of my wife. If we had a kid and she chose to raise that kid as a JW I'd be fine with it. I think... yea, it would be cool with me. As long as the kid didn't grow up to be a herb.

[B_As_In_Bot]

A lot of people never have a chance to believe in anything else because from day 1 their parents told them to believe in 1 thing. A bible.

For those people who grew up sheltered and naive - completely brainwashed.. They all need a place to collaborate ideas and become accepted - a support group. Their only friends and their family's friends are all memeber of the same church.

Preaching, living your own life according to something written down on paper and put into somebody elses terms is in my opinion a sad boring way to go through life. Its watered down garb. Plain and simple. People cant cope with their lives when they lack a goal or direction so they feel lost. Then some idiot bible thumper comes into their life and tells them they can be a part of eternal life, if they do good and get other people to feel the way they do. Convert others for your cause.

From what I know religion first started out to give people something to live for, travel the land - regenerate and pass onto the next part.

The whole thing has just gotten out of hand..people dont know what or why the follow they just do as they are told..hoping they go to better place where the good and evil are seperated..

They dont want to believe life only lasts 1 time, because they dont like the world as it is.

I saw a bumper sticker the other day that read:
Christians: cant live with them - cant throw them to the lions anymore

Both my parents were brought up JW's..That religion is scary. They want to controll your life when it comes down to it. My mother once told how she went through HighSchool - graduated with honors earlier then the rest of the class. There's no telling how far she could have gone with further education, but her parents said no - Your job is to make babies or become a minister. My father who was very athletically inclined - couldnt even try out for the wrestling team. If you get married into it and divorced out of it your thrown out. Excommunicado. Some assbackwards shit.

Heathens!:lol:

[imported_garcia_vega]

i believe in god because i don't feel that i would be alive if it weren't for the grace of god. i've been shot at, stabbed, robbed at gunpoint, i've been in 4 car accidents where cars were totalled, all kinds of shit. i just think it wasn't my time yet, and there was more for me to do in life. i don't understand why people don't believe in god. if the higher powers of the universe don't watch over you, than your existance is wiped out in the blink of an eye. so every day you wake up and that doesn't happen, you're either blessed or cursed depending how you look at it. but either way it's not completely random, and it's not passive--there is action involved. so if you think that without a higher power you'd be sitting here typing on a computer, that's arrogance. maybe god is simply the collective consciousness of mankind--the 90% of our brain that we don't use, or the codes passed through our dna that we can't figure out. but no matter what it is or how you try to explain it, it's real.

[NOUM]

:jpotato:

[imported_garcia_vega]

also, to adress something joker said earlier, i don't think there really is a contradiction between being a god-fearing person and being a writer. did you ever watch the last temptation of chist? that scene where jesus gets pissed off at the money changers in the cnurch and trashes the whole place? that scene is from the bible. jesus saw the corruption of the church leaders--the men using the name of god to better their own financial situation, and jesus freaked out and trashed (or i could also say vandalized) a church. early christians were looked at as the scum of the earth, kind of like writers, and jesus was a rebel. rebellion is the closest thing you can do to follow the footsteps of jesus. and it works with other religoins to. siddheartha renounced his social status to live like a monk in poverty. lao tzu supposedly lived as a hermit in the woods because he was so disenchanted with society. finding religion and spitting in the face of society go hand in hand.

[silent_j5]

Jeus is like easter eggs ... if you find him you find him ...

[KaBar2]

I think that most people who are convinced atheists are as devout, in their own way, as people who do believe in God, because they believe that God doesn't exist. Absolutely. Positively. Sort of fundamentalist-like in their non-belief.

And they tend to have an entire set of beliefs that hinge on this non-existance of God, that collectively are known as humanism or secularism. This generally involves being completely opposed to most moral imperatives and restrictions that are based on any Biblical or other references to other "holy scripture" (Quran, etc.)

If God exists, and if He has a set of rules that he wants His people to follow, and he is omnipotent; if you break his rules you are in a WORLD OF SHIT. Begging forgiveness is just about one's only option, although the Hebrews of the Old Testament used to put all the tribes' sins on a goat (a scapegoat) and send it out into the wilderness, where God would miraculously send a lion to devour the goat and thereby relieve the tribe of it's sins. They used to also set up these elaborate sacrifices of oxen, lambs, doves, etc. Sort of a kosher barbeque, and this apparently pleased God. (Actually, this would be kind of cool even today.) And then when the First Century Church was created around Jesus, then being truly repentant, asking forgiveness and promising to not do it again seemed to be adequate. Christianity was essentially a Jewish cult during this period. Christians followed the Jewish holidays, feast and festival days, but did not always eat kosher, because Jesus taught that it wasn't what you put into you mouth that was so important (i.e. kosher food) but what came out of your mouth (i.e. curses, bitterness, hatred for others, swearing before God, or lies, etc.) that is important.

People want to do whatever they want (me too) and don't like having to adhere to a set of rules they have no part in making (I can relate to that), and since most of us cannot accept that there are unbreakable Holy rules and laws, then we cannot accept that God exists, because if He did, and we broke His rules, then we would be french fried in the unquenchable brimstone fires of Hell. Most people think Hell is bullshit, and Heaven too. It's just too corny for a generation of people raised on evolution and situational ethics and moral relativity.

But check this out. One of the most simple common animals is the regular old frog. Genetically, frogs are not too complex. The DNA of a frog, like other animals, depends upon the arrangement of molecules of bio-chemicals on the double helix of the DNA. The molecules of all animals are pretty much the same, I think, just arranged in different sequences, from a universal pool of molecular possibilities. Supposedly, all life on this planet just happened by accident, sort of like putting Bingo balls in a cage and turning the handle to see which ball comes up next.

For the FIRST THREE molecules of a frog's DNA to come out correctly (never mind the hundreds or thousands of molecules to follow) by chance is a statistical chance of about 20 million to one. Your chances of being struck by lightning during your lifetime are about 200,000 to one. Which makes me pretty nervous about this post, LOL.

Only God can make a frog. Uh, ..correctly, that is. (Dow Chemical can make them with three legs and shit like that pretty easily, just by being kind of sloppy down at the petro-chemical kitchen. Which might be sort of pissing off God, you know? Think about it.)

[Smart]

'secularism' is bullshit... 'human secularism' even more so... I can remember when we all had to turn in our history books because they were dangerously 'humanly secular'... yep, the anitHS movemnet started based upon the possible state oppression of organized religion, not in any honorable debate about religion as a whole. GOD FORBID we fail to acknowledge God's role in the victories of WWII, though God is downplayed in discussions of Vietnam... God help's the winners of the Super Bowl but uses adversity to 'teach' the losers. FUCK THAT! Any given Sunday...

The idea that "This generally involves being completely opposed to most moral imperatives and restrictions that are based on any Biblical or other references to other "holy scripture" (Quran, etc.)" is bullshit... I don't see any athiests jumping up to legalize murder because it's forbidden in some worn out piece of scripture.

The argument that only God can make a frog is weak as well, 'only God has made a frog so far'... Churchy LaFemmes are constantly trying to use the unexplained to justify the existance of God but over the years, the phenomena continue to be explained...

Why doesn't anyone explore the inconsistancies in 'God's plan'? If we are all made in his image then why are all our fingerprints different? Wouldn't that be an 'imperfaction'? Snowflakes? Surely snowflakes don't figure in the larger scheme as greatly as humans, the bible tells us so, yet snowflakes are equally unique. I would further postulate that no matter how rigorously unifor any plant's leaves are, they are also entirely unique. See a pattern? Yep, random numbers so large that they are simply inconcievable to the human mind AT THIS POINT. Algorythmic theory is already being used to encrypt cell phone calls and, possibly, will eventually be able to help trace your genetic code all the way back to Joe Caveman.

It's also weak to indict someone solely on the basis that 'they believe'. Simply because someone is christian, athiest, or buddhist is NO reason to dismiss their opinions, we all know that but... as soon as this argument is raised, lines are drawn and positions are taken. Pointing out that all sides adhere doggedly to their own beliefs proves nothing but the general tenacity of humans...

Why is God a vengeful God? The Old Testament is based on fear, the New Testament based on love... sound like the Good Cop/Bad Cop routine? They didn't invent that when the FBI came into existance...

Ironically, 2 of the people most associated with the 'Humanism' argument, Darwin and Einstein were both christians.

[Dick Quickwood]

so yeah, i saw a frog with a tail down by the river today

[the_gooch]

because they are scared of being alone in the universe.

[Smart]

Originally posted by ARCEL
so yeah, i saw a frog with a tail down by the river today

yeah, so... it's not full grown... I'm sure you've seen a tadpole.

[Dick Quickwood]

HAHAHA of course, i was thinking the river was polluted or something... oh wait

[nang'eds!]

Ok say if there is one of these "gods" that so many millions believe in, i am sure you can work out he has done more bad than good, if he was all powerful and could do what he pleased i don't think there would be any war or gun crimes or other unneccasary "sins". So i think the god you believe i think has lied. Or you have lied to your self by believing in "god". He is about he is very very unfair, think about how many inicent young children have been killed in mass murder's what will you people say about that? god had them killed because they deserved it, why do old ladies get mugged? why are there so many mentaly and physically retarded people they did something bad in the woum and deserved to be altered and changed so thast they are different from otherswell i am sure your so called god would not do such a thing. Well that is a little thought to think about.

peace....

[imported_garcia_vega]

i think that you have a very narrow idea of what god is. first of all, the concept of god being "all powerful and can do what he pleased" is a christian one. even calling god a "he" is a jewish/christian idea (the father, the son, and the holy spirit.) bhuddism, not christianity, is the most widely practiced religion in the world. bhuddism doesn't specifically say that god is a male or female, or that god is all powerful. god's power comes from duality. somtimes babies will die, old ladies get will mugged and murdered, but sometimes babies that are supposed to die pull through and grow up healthy, and people have cancer which is supposed to kill them, but it suddenly goes into remission. you need to have tragedy in the world to understand what a miracle is. god must create an evil opposite for every good thing, because that's the only way our minds can understand anything. in bhuddism and taoism, god is viewed as more of a force--like water. water gives life to everything on the planet, but floods can destroy entire counties in an afternoon. while people are drowning in a flood, somewhere else in the world a gentle rain shower is giving life to a whole ecosystem. so to me, saying you don't believe in god is like saying you don't believe in water.

[WebsterUno]

Joke-Yeah, thats what I meant.
thats cool that youre supportive like that.
I dont know what I would do if I were in your situation.
I know JWs dont celebrate birthdays, christmas,
HALLOWEEN!!! Me being me, it would be hard to tell
my child she cant enjoy herself like all the other kids do.
Religion is too strict. It can help instill values, but I
think I can do that myself. Nothing wrong with self-righteousness?
Right?

[Æ°]

[img]http://www.tron-movie.com/games/tron/screen5.jpg'>

[nang'eds!]

Originally posted by garcia_vega
i think that you have a very narrow idea of what god is. first of all, the concept of god being "all powerful and can do what he pleased" is a christian one. even calling god a "he" is a jewish/christian idea (the father, the son, and the holy spirit.) bhuddism, not christianity, is the most widely practiced religion in the world. bhuddism doesn't specifically say that god is a male or female, or that god is all powerful. god's power comes from duality. somtimes babies will die, old ladies get will mugged and murdered, but sometimes babies that are supposed to die pull through and grow up healthy, and people have cancer which is supposed to kill them, but it suddenly goes into remission. you need to have tragedy in the world to understand what a miracle is. god must create an evil opposite for every good thing, because that's the only way our minds can understand anything. in bhuddism and taoism, god is viewed as more of a force--like water. water gives life to everything on the planet, but floods can destroy entire counties in an afternoon. while people are drowning in a flood, somewhere else in the world a gentle rain shower is giving life to a whole ecosystem. so to me, saying you don't believe in god is like saying you don't believe in water. Sorry, i am only 13. but yeah i meant to call this thread "why do people believe in the christian god" but that fucked up cos i was watching fear and loathing in las vegas...and was laughing to much to concentrate but i only said "HE" not to be specific but because i wasn't actualy thinking properly, i never realy do when i post on this website. I know i probably should on a threead like this because it is a sensitive subject and people do get affended. Next time i will think a little more before typing in whatever comes to my head....
but i still can't bring my self to believe in something that noone has proof of it actualy existing, that is just the way i am.

[IntangibleFame]

first off your fucking 13 go to school...

its funny cause when you die you will finally figure out if what you have been believing in your whole life is a sham or not. People can dislike what I say but its true...but I guess its better to have something to help give you a certain strength, then to not have anything at all. I honestly try not to think about such possibilitys because it really is mind boggling. If one thing is for sure all religon has certain aspects in common so something must be right. could religion could be a way of life set for people to follow to make them happy throughout it? Because that could be the ultimate technological advancement ever.

[--zeSto--]

Originally posted by Joker
As long as the kid didn't grow up to be a herb.

You shouldn't be too worried.
It is possible to be raised in the church without being socially inept.
You seemed to like one of them enough to commit your life to her,
so there's the solid proof that not everyone is doomed to herbdom.


Interfaith marriges? let's discuss!

So I was reading my copy of the Quar'an and I came across
a strange little fact. Everyone should know that Islam, Judaism
and Christianity all come from the same source (Abraham) and
all of these 3 religions are monotheistic. The Quar'an calls Jews
and Christians 'People of The Book'. In the book there seems to
be a little bit of respect for these other faiths (compared to today,
and compared to the pagans). So here's the tricky part...

An Islamic man is allowed to marry other 'people of the book'
without getting in shit from his community. That may not apply
in Gaza, but in the Quar'an it's a-okay. However the Islamic women
are only allowed to marry Islamic men. Seems a little backwords no?
Is this a perfect example of the word of man being taken as the word
of 'God'? I dont think an omnipotent creator would allow half of his
'creations' to live by one code that is so integral to the family and not
allow the other half the same freedoms. But who really knows?

[Rev.DUGOOD]

people belive in god because ,god is the creator of this world and all things we know of..hands down...you can call god anything you want but its still the same.the reason i call god (it) is because i dont believe god is man or women ,god is much more than that.i think god is a something that is in apart of all of us.good & bad because even the most hateful person has some kind of love in them.i believe god is love.i dont believe god really has much to do with religion,i mean god definitly is in every religion,but i dont believe that you need a religion to get to god or talk to god .just know that god exists.........................live in peace & live at peace with yourself.

[anvillan]

because people are gullible ..if thats even how you spell it

[Joker]

Originally posted by Kilo7-
I dont think an omnipotent creator would allow half of his
'creations' to live by one code that is so integral to the family and not
allow the other half the same freedoms. But who really knows?

I've had a similar thought in my head for years and years. And when I've asked questions about the supressing of women in religion the only answer most will give me is, it's God's will. That's just the way it is. And of course, I have a hard time swallowing that. For example... JW women cannot become Elders in their Kingdom Halls. For a lack of better and proper ways to describe it... women are inferior to men in Jehovah's eyes. Therefore men only can become Elders. This seems true in most religions that I know very little about. Women are inferior. I know very little about the Islamic religion, very little. But the treatment of women seems horrific to me. I know that I may be generalising ( mainly from documentaries and small stories on Discovery and the History channel that I've seen ) but from what I do know I'm amazed at how such things can go on.
I agree... why would God ( if God existed ) create two beings and give one more power than the other? If God created man in his own image what inspired him to create woman?

Interfaith marriages...

I have yet to meet a married couple that was not of the same religion. Most couples I know always ask how the misses and I handle things. To them it's unthinkable to be married to someone who is not of the same faith. More so, most couples I know who have married a same faith partner have all divorced. I married around the same time as five other couple friends of mine. All of which have divorced over the last four years. One couple spent an amazing amount of money on the wedding and reception and divorced two weeks after. Bought a house and everything. Stupid. The guy converted to Catholicism for the girl too. Stupid. His parents were upset about the converting so you can only imagine the hell the unleashed when the the couple split. I don't quite know where I'm going with this so I'll just stop it right there... sorry.

[Joker]

Originally posted by anvillan
because people are gullible ..if thats even how you spell it

You are correct in your spelling! See how easy it is if you just sound it out...

[--zeSto--]

Originally posted by Joker
If God created man in his own image what inspired him to create woman?

that's deep man. Really deep.

Sure some people can say that 'he created man' and then
made minor modification because women carry children.
The Wo-man is just a man with a womb, and mamorry glands,
and soft silky skin... a big beautiful eyes. Plus they smell like heaven.

Oh...
maybe women wern't 'built' as just a child carrying man.

'God' May have created the 'form' with man, but 'he' made beauty with woman.

[silent_j5]

Joker if god created us in his image he must have been a dumb mother fucker with a drinking problem. he created women to help us, someone we can talk to and make more of, but what do i know i dont believe in fairy tales..... [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/p2b7d56e9bb9aa0bc9c7730d5d35c4e3c/fb3b519b.jpg'>

[IntangibleFame]

Originally posted by silent_j5
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/p2b7d56e9bb9aa0bc9c7730d5d35c4e3c/fb3b519b.jpg

"Who is driving car? Oh my god bear is driving car how can that be!"

[KaBar2]

And certainly worth reading. Since there was a time in my life when I was adamantly, passionately, belligerantly on one side of this argument, and now find myself sheepishly on the other side (One denies the existance of extraterrestials until you see a UFO....) I am confident that some of the ardent atheists will change their opinions. People believe in God eventually because they can see no other explanation that seems rational. Face-to-face with Evil-with-a-capital-E, people choose Good, and choose to believe. There are too many repentant Nazis and jailhouse conversions for me to feel other explanations are more likely. Ultimately, belief in God is a choice, like many other.

[phem9]

Good question & good answers. Man did create God, many of them anyway. I believe God to be the imperial power in everything. Aside from a believer, I'm also a sinner & a hypocrite. I try to be a "good person", but at times I'm jealous, have greed, I'm impatient, critical, I write on shit that's not mine etc., no where near perfect. As a matter of fact, I've never met a perfect human & I never will. We're all imperfect. We're all hypocrites. Even non believers are hypocrites. Yep, it's true. Why is it, when you say you're a believer you're actions are automatically dissected & judged more harshly? Also, the religious are blamed for so much. It's not only believers of a God who cause war, hurt, hate, kill etc. We could do an entire thread on the presence of Satan. There's always evil among us, even when we think we're doing something good, just, or right, we're still humans & again, imperfect at that. I'm not happy w/ the "sin all week, get saved on Sunday" mentality many church people have, but it's out there. Yes it sucks, but you have to look for the good in people. We generally try to be good, having values etc., but we fall short all the time. It's too bad that just because the religious strive for some sort of better way, that they're expected to be perfect all the time. I have to hand it to you Joker. It sounds like you're very patient & you've handled the scrutiny well. As far as us being made in God's image, this is a vague statement. Let's not pull it apart too much. No one here knows WHAT "his image" really is, unless they're God. Women on earth & individual fingerprints are not an imperfections, but rather a validation of our own uniqueness! According to the bible women were made as helpers for men, so they wouldn't be alone. A companion I guess. Of course this can't be proven so easily in a 12oz thread, or anywhere else for that matter. This is when FAITH comes into play & having a PEACE that passes UNDERSTANDING. We aren't made to understand it. The bible wasn't even written in English. Over years, human error is bound to have been a factor in translation. All the different religions relate to the region they derived from & they do have similarities. I personally trust that God exists outside of each one & outside of each church, synagogue, temple, mosque, etc. The importance of church isn't so much a building you go to on Sunday, but a fellowship with other believers. I really like what Kilo said about the Redwood & the seed. In fact, the bible uses a similar reference w/ the mustard seed. That really breaks it down for me. It's like that damn spider that keeps weaving it's web in my front door. Each morning it breaks when I open the door, but it rebuilds over and over, night after night. Stupid spider. =0) Personally, for me it's things like this that restore my faith & it's human to question it. At times humanity also makes me want to run, but I try to remember NOT to put my faith in man alone, but in God, because man will always let you down in the long run. I've also learned to thank God for these let downs, because they make us stronger. Anyway, sorry to ramble. I just wanted to share my feelings. I like the summed up response "why not?", though I can easily turn on the news, hear about priests raping little boys etc., and see why not! The world is fucked up & it's easy to judge each other. Try to stay positive & look for the good. Peace y'all!

[WebsterUno]

well put Ms. 9.

[nang'eds!]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by IntangibleFame
[B]first off your fucking 13 go to school...

I am at school. That doesn't mean i live there. I still have time to do my own things....if that's what you meant?

[Edika]

people believe in god because they fear the unknown, death and lonelyness.
Religion is a concept made a long time ago for the people who didnt had access at the education, science and information that we have now.

[Edika]

no wonder why the bastion of Catholism is now in South america...less education, modernity... a more traditional and poorer life.



I 'd like to skip a few years of evolution, and to see this world free of religion... i think it would be better without it.


anyway.. with all the access to the modern science that we have now.. how can you still believe that god created the world in 7 days few thousands years ago, when we have dinausaurs bones dating of millions of years.. that the 2 first men were Adam and Eve (both are white..), when we are finding rests of prehistoric tribes,and that we have proved that we descend from monkeys...and the list goes on and on.
crazyness

[--zeSto--]

^ that might be what you believe but the facts can prove otherwise.

Ancient Islam was at the very forefront of science for their days.
They believed that science was a way for humans to get better in
touch with Allah and the mysteries of life. Take for example the fact
that they had discovered the world was round some 1000 years before
the Christian world. Even Capernicus (sp) was tried and executed
because he went against the church and said the world wasn't flat.

I still believe in that ancient idea of science and wisdom bringing us closer
to some kind of divine masterplan. So we know about DNA and evolution
but does that mean that these things wern't tools used by a higher power?
Some people think a creator just snapped his fingers and walked away
from the world and let things take their own course. I dont believe that
but I do think that the concept of 'free will' isn't exclusive to humans. I think
that maybe all types of natural progression can also have free will.

your opinion... you're entitled to it but I seriously think that religion
as a 'brainwashing' agent is a new (past 2000 years) invention.

[KRONOLOGIK]

You guys are whacked.

[KRONOLOGIK]

Originally posted by Edika
no wonder why the bastion of Catholism is now in South america...less education, modernity... a more traditional and poorer life.



I 'd like to skip a few years of evolution, and to see this world free of religion... i think it would be better without it.


anyway.. with all the access to the modern science that we have now.. how can you still believe that god created the world in 7 days few thousands years ago, when we have dinausaurs bones dating of millions of years.. that the 2 first men were Adam and Eve (both are white..), when we are finding rests of prehistoric tribes,and that we have proved that we descend from monkeys...and the list goes on and on.
crazyness

Because they're whacked.

[Edika]

Kilo,its your opinion too, but i think that science and religion cannot be together.

One of the definition of science is objectivity. When u are a scientist, u have to experiment and see the facts and evidences, the results of your theory. Religion is not science. I'm willing to believe in god when i'll see the result of a scientific research that will be able to say that god exists and that the bibble ( or any other religion book) is correct.
this is science: give me the proofs, the facts, and i'll believe!


Now, religion is more phylosophical, spiritual, than scientific, but infortunately, theres always a big part of it that focuses on supposed facts ( like the creation of the earth, like i said before). and thats the problem: religions are taking these facts for granted, and are excluding everyone that are not following the guidelines . See,I have no problem with a person who is reading and following a book and a way that can help him spiritually... let's say Jesus or whatever other prophets would have come like this: hey guys, i have written a new book called the bibble, it is a book that can help you out in life, give you some tricks to feel better, read it if you want... i think that the world would have been better, many many less wars...

[Don't Panic]

People seem to be under the misconception that science is infalliable. Edika mentioned that science is supposed to be objective. The problem with that is the elements which are meant to be objective are based on our perception of them, thus making them subjective. Lots of things considered scientific knowledge are just theories that haven't been proven wrong yet. Remember how science once "proved" that earth was the center of the universe? Or that black people really are inferior to white people? While it isn't as shakey, science still falls short in a lot of areas.
Science is definitely stronger in that it allows for error. Religion tends to have a stigma that once you find fault in one aspect, the entire dogma should and will come crashing down. If it could adopt the inclusive nature that science has, it would be much better off. If science could answer the questions that religion adresses, it would be much better off.

[sneak]

Originally posted by IntangibleFame
"Who is driving car? Oh my god bear is driving car how can that be!"

its a panda...

on the religion subject, i dont believe there is a "god" as such but that there has to be "something" out there. the idea of following a religion has never got through to me. i dont know why, but it just seems pointless. this doesnt mean i dont have respect for people who do follow their religion.

again, i have to agree with all the people who voice the question: " if there is a god, why do so many bad things happen?" sure, people always say "its gods will" or something along the lines of it being not gods fault. to me this seems to be a load of shit! surely "god" could see that some bad stuff is going on in the world to people who dont deserve it or havent done anything. why isnt god looking out for them?

*one of the many random thoughts passing through sneaks brain*

[se_FOUR]

People want to **believe** that there is something after you die..By why should there be? Anyway fuck it bollox, who cares when you times up it`s up, God or no God..

[imported_El Mamerro]

Edika, you would probably enjoy this article (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/10.12/convergence.html). It's about a seemingly inevitable convergence of science and religion happening right now. Smart, you would probably like this too... kind of related to the "Only God can make a frog" deal.

An excerpt:



The existence of 50 billion galaxies isn't the only mystery that's prompting scientists to rethink their attitudes toward the divine. Beyond this is the puzzle of why the universe is hospitable to living creatures.

In recent years, researchers have calculated that if a value called omega — the ratio between the average density of the universe and the density that would halt cosmic expansion — had not been within about one-quadrillionth of 1 percent of its actual value immediately after the big bang, the incipient universe would have collapsed back on itself or experienced runaway-relativity effects that would render the fabric of time-space weirdly distorted. Instead, the firmament is geometrically smooth — rather than distorted — in the argot of cosmology. If gravity were only slightly stronger, research shows, stars would flame so fiercely they would burn out in a single year; the universe would be a kingdom of cinders, devoid of life. If gravity were only slightly weaker, stars couldn't form and the cosmos would be a thin, undifferentiated blur. Had the strong force that binds atomic nuclei been slightly weaker, all atoms would disperse into vapor.

These cosmic coincidences were necessary to create a universe capable of sustaining life. But life itself required an equally unlikely fine-tuning at the atomic level, yielding vast quantities of carbon. Unlike most elements, carbon needs little energy to form exceedingly complicated molecules, a requirement of biology. As it happens, a quirk of carbon chemistry — an equivalence of nuclear energy levels that allows helium nuclei to meld within stars — makes this vital element possible.

To the late astronomer Fred Hoyle, who calculated the conditions necessary to create carbon in 1953, the odds of this match occurring by chance seemed so phenomenally low that he converted from atheism to a belief that the universe reflects a "purposeful intelligence." Hoyle declared, "The probability of life originating at random is so utterly minuscule as to make the random concept absurd." That is to say, Hoyle's faith in chance was shaken by evidence of purpose, a reversal of the standard postmodern experience, and one shared by many of his successors today.

This web of improbable conditions — making not just life but intelligent life practically inevitable — came to be known as the anthropic principle. To physicist Charles Townes, an anthropic universe resolves a tension that has bedeviled physics since the heyday of quantum theory. "When quantum mechanics overthrew determinism, many scientists, including Einstein, wanted the universe to be deterministic," he points out. "They didn't like quantum theory, because it leaves you looking for a spiritual explanation for why things turned out the way they did. Religion and science are going to be drawn together for a long time trying to figure out the philosophical implications of why the universe turned out favorable to us."

[Edika]

bah .. i dont think that science/religion is a strong current in the scientific world. I'm not affraid of that.

[Don't Panic]

^^I think you might be surprised. Why would you be afraid of it? Even if science was starting to support religion, isn't it still science?

[nang'eds!]

Originally posted by se_FOUR
People want to **believe** that there is something after you die..By why should there be? Anyway fuck it bollox, who cares when you times up it`s up, God or no God.. cheers for defeating the point of the thread :idea: