presidential elections 2004. whats your vote?

[rubbish heap]

who do you, personally, want for president 2004?

i'm leaning towards kucinich on this one.

[Æ°]

Originally posted by E MARTYR
REPUBLICANDEMOCRATIC

Very clever

[BAMBOOZLED]

Fuck kucinich, I can't even pronounce that.

My beef with elections is that a proven 68% of voters don't know the platforms, they just vote for the canadate that rubs them the right way or has the most advertising.

[BROWNer]

LIEBERMAN





















[img]http://www.usembassy.de/consular/munchen/images/lieberman.jpg'>

[space base]

Im too lazy to keep up with politics. I'll just vote for whoever Browner votes for.

[caL]

ill cancel out my dads vote

[Æ°]

I've done some research on all of them and I'm stumped. It's starting to bother me that there isn't one that I would want to vote for, even if it were just to take a vote away from the person I didn't favor.

I'm interested to know why BROWNer said Lieberman though...

[Daze One Million]

why isnt bush on the list?

[caL]

if i ever catch a debate, ill make sure not to vote for whoever says words that dont exist like bush does.

[Daze One Million]

i dont even think im registered to vote, thats sad

[BROWNer]

Originally posted by caL
ill make sure not to vote for whoever says words that dont exist like bush does.


i think that's the only good thing about bush.

lieberman all the way dudesz.

[Dick Quickwood]

al sharpton

[stylus1]

No offense, but fucking Al Sharpton, are you fucking serious. This is white kid suicide from what I'm seeing. Be realistic, no offense to any black people on this board and i mean that with sincerity, but Al Sharpton is just plain ridiculous. Don't even get me started on his ass, you ignorant fucking little white kids like me will lose a lot when shit like this happens. I really like black people, i have black friends, but you white posers cut it out. kiss your future good bye. Im gonna post this because i am severely intoxicated right now, murder me tommorrow for my political views

[Dick Quickwood]

Originally posted by E MARTYR
whatever helps get more jobs availble.

HAHA tease, i don't think that that is why you don't have a job

[ment2]

Originally posted by stylus1
No offense, but fucking Al Sharpton, are you fucking serious. This is white kid suicide from what I'm seeing. Be realistic, no offense to any black people on this board and i mean that with sincerity, but Al Sharpton is just plain ridiculous. Don't even get me started on his ass, you ignorant fucking little white kids like me will lose a lot when shit like this happens. I really like black people, i have black friends, but you white posers cut it out. kiss your future good bye. Im gonna post this because i am severely intoxicated right now, murder me tommorrow for my political views

i didnt find anything political in your views. oh but you have black friends... so its ok.

[caL]

im spanish, black enough to vote for al

[Poop Man Bob]

Howard Dean.

www.deanforamerica.com (http://www.deanforamerica.com)

[ment2]

if bush is re-elected, this country is retarded. how can so many people hate bush but he still gets elected (well technically more people didnt vote for him but how can he even come close). i mean i dont know a shit from a tree when it comes to politics and you can say this and that and have good politics rhetorically, but what it comes down to is how you're actually changing the country. its an understatement to say the country has been sort of going downhill since bush got elected.. and maybe the benefits of his politics are long-term, but you can only count on four years, eight tops, to make it happen, and its allready 2003.

what the president does effects everyone, including people who dont know shit about politics, like me, so thats my random american's opinion.

[TEARZ]

Originally posted by BAMBOOZLED
Fuck kucinich, I can't even pronounce that.

My beef with elections is that a proven 68% of voters don't know the platforms, they just vote for the canadate that rubs them the right way or has the most advertising.

or whose name they can pronounce easily. pure genius.
take your own advice.

[se_FOUR]

Homer Simpson:king:

[BROWNer]

poopy bob still for dean..
how come you didn't visit my thread with some
poli insights on dean mang?

[BROWNer]

[img]http://www.msnbc.com/news/1133779.jpg'>

[Poop Man Bob]

Originally posted by BROWNer
poopy bob still for dean..
how come you didn't visit my thread with some
poli insights on dean mang?

Sorry, homey. I just started school again and have been on the computer less.

Are you honestly supporting Lieberman, albeit from a different country?

[Vlad]

Arnold Schwarzenigga should go for it :lol:

[Vanity]

bushie hands

[TuffKid]

i feel the need to NOT vote.

[Vanity]

Originally posted by BROWNer
[img]http://www.msnbc.com/news/1133779.jpg'>

[img]http://www.onlineathens.com/images/010302/penn_teller.jpg'>

[$360]

as long as it isnt any cowboys, ill be happy. maybe.

seriously. if bush gets re-elected. im moving to canada. no fucking joke.

[rubbish heap]

Originally posted by E MARTYR
arcel, you silly faggot from oregone...

got something against oregon? :mad:

[Spoter]

hmmmm, considering he's jewish i wonder where he stands on the conflicts in the middle east.haha

[caL]

he would save us money and get us out of the deficet hahaha
*pretends to know what that is*

[l0rdka0s]

waht the fuck asshole, WHERE THE FUCK IS NADER!!!!!



FUCKING NADER IN 04'!!!!!!!!

FUCK REST FUCK REST

[rubbish heap]

Originally posted by robotripp
waht the fuck asshole, WHERE THE FUCK IS NADER!!!!!



FUCKING NADER IN 04'!!!!!!!!

FUCK REST FUCK REST

sorry to shit on your parade but he ain't running :idea:

[rubbish heap]

Welcome to Page 2

[img]http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/images/20010913-4-1-m.jpg'>
<span style='color:burlywood'>"Hello?"</span>

[BROWNer]

Originally posted by Poop Man Bob
Sorry, homey. I just started school again and have been on the computer less.
Are you honestly supporting Lieberman, albeit from a different country?

well it was a little while ago...say the word and i'll bump it for you, it's a piece written
by norman solomon(who's a pretty dope dude all around) and definitely worth a read.

as far as your second question.....hahahaa

[Poop Man Bob]

Originally posted by BROWNer
as far as your second question.....hahahaa

Thank fucking God.

[Smart]

You see... the way the 'Primary system' is set up... ah fuck it...

and Vanity, that wasn't cool to bust Lieberman out on his role as the 'original' Teller... I think he's put that behind him and made great strides since them, WHY MUST YOU CRUCIFY HIM???

[Weapon X]

The Democrats have no style; it’s all about the charming smile and winning personality of Dick “my mothafukkin’ man” Cheney.

I bet if we could, us foreigners would vote a lot more than you guys, considering the terrible voter turn outs you have.





















Respect to Grover Norquist and Karl C. Rove, the ex-Young Republicans who took life for what it is – a once in a lifetime thing.

[Smart]

I was a young republican... but only because I was political and it was the only thing there was... but after 2 meetings I realized they were trying to hype me on some other members dad's REPUBLICAN bid for state senate...

I bailed but not until I asked his dad a couple hard questions at local fundraisers...

well, perhaps I was also 'asked to bail'... I forget if that axe actually fell or just loomde over my head

[dukeofyork]

Originally posted by Vanity
bushie hands


ha ha....





wheres boogie been anyway?

:confused:

[rubbish heap]

[img]http://www.cnn.com/interactive/allpolitics/0209/iraq.reax.0912/gal.kucinich.jpg'>
Vote for this guy.

[mapo returns]

Ill probably vote for Bush.

Simply because I think he'll do the best job fucking it up.

But then again Im not registered to vote.

[Spoter]

anyone els watch the democrat party debate last night?the dude rubbish heap posted had decent answers.dean from vermont is also some favorable motives.i wasn't surprised with lieberman's hesitant answers about sending more troops.

[rip]

wheres the bush option? thats who im voting for. unless a better republican comes out.

[StarzAbove]

Arent ARCEL n DHABZ RUNNING?

[23578]

dean, it's the only realistic choice (right now), i saw kucinich the other night, he's a smart dude, too bad he doesn't have any back. oooh, howie dean, he's sooo moderate:eek: :dazed: .:) .

[jack handy]

anybody else in '04

[TEARZ]

"You can talk about balancing the budget in Vermont, but Vermont doesn't have a military. And if you're not going to cut the military, then what are you going to do about social spending?"
-DK

dean is not an acceptable option.... 23578, watch kucinich become more realistic by the month.... and i don't even see why "realistic" even needs to come into the picture in a primary. but whatever.

i wonder how the dean supporters will feel when dean sprints to the center after (if) he secures the nomination. he's fraudulent. i can't believe that people aren't picking up on it by now.

[nomadawhat]

from another thread.... maybe a late addition to the race?.....

Originally posted by nomadawhat
has anybody heard of gen. wesley clark? he may be yet another democratic nominee, he says he will annouce by sept. 19th..
he seems to have good views on some issues but i have yet to hear or read much. i saw him on tv for a few minutes and he was very personable, plus he is what the republicans are afraid of in a nominee, someone with actual miltary credentials who is a people person.

some of those credentials:

4 star retired U.S. general
Rhodes scholar
first in his 1966 class at West Point
White House fellow,
head of the U.S. Southern Command
NATO commander during the 1999 campaign in Kosovo


keep your eye on this guy, it seems as all the other nominee's are.

here's a site supporting him and trying to get him to join the race for more info:


http://www.draftwesleyclark.com/

[BROWNer]

those credentials don't mean squat to me.

look at kucinich up there all rugged and shit.

[!@#$%]

^^mofuckin HOLLLLA

[nomadawhat]

Originally posted by BROWNer
those credentials don't mean squat to me.

look at kucinich up there all rugged and shit.

fuck, i just typed this out!!!! ok again...

i agree, they don't really mean squat to me but alot of sheepish americans look for shit like this to grab on to in a nominee. i don't know much about this guy and i'm not giving him my support, but that could change, but it seems as he is making waves and could alter the landscape of the whole democratic nomination if he does enter, albeit late.so i'm just throwing his name out there... since there is a lot of 'anybody but bush' feelings going on here. sounds like if he decides not to run that he may be a top choice for vice president... which may be best since he doesn't have any political credentials..

[rubbish heap]

it'd be nice to see the press give the spotlight to someone other than dean :idea:

[23578]

TEARZ-brudda, i feel you on that statement. that's my hot button with dean. kucinich is straight up the right choice. my problem with him stems from his campaign. he didn't seem that confident in the debate last night, and he's not getting coverage doing what he's doing. he needs to rally the youth vote. i don't know, dean has the internet thing going on, why doesn't kucinich go online and make some noise. dean has the graffiti in the background, kucinich should go on mtv, like clinton did, or just get up on the networks and do some stupid shit to get noticed. alot of the candidates talk pretty, (dean, kerry, gephardt, leiberman) but everyone knows they're not 100% right, yet they're too scared to vote for anyone else because their horse has a chance.

as far as last nights debate at Morgan State, Al Sharpton got his message across, as far as i'm concerned, the ball is in their court.

[Poop Man Bob]

Originally posted by TEARZ
i wonder how the dean supporters will feel when dean sprints to the center after (if) he secures the nomination. he's fraudulent. i can't believe that people aren't picking up on it by now.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. He is relatively centrist on a lot of issues, so there won't be any "sprint to the center" - he's already there. He's never portrayed himself as an ultra-liberal candidate. The press, on the other hand, may have done so mostly because of his anti-war stance. All of his views on the issues are available at www.deanforamerica.com (http://www.deanforamerica.com), so how has he been fraudulent?

Dean has been the frontrunner for almost two months now, so I'm expecting the other candidates to start attacking him negatively. Lieberman did just that, but, to Dean's credit, he was able to rebuff Lieberman's attempts.

And, furthermore, I hope you're not being completely honest when you say that Dean is "not an acceptable option." In order to get aWol out of the White House, [i]any Dem (*cough*save Lieberman*cough*) should be an acceptable option.

[Poop Man Bob]

Originally posted by rip
wheres the bush option? thats who im voting for.

Yeah, Bush has shown a ton of compassion for those in the military these past few years (and his entire life).

/sarcasm.

Read up:
Bush's 'Bring 'em on' speech rings hollow as he cuts benefits for soldiers, veterans (http://www.statesman.com/opinion/content/auto/epaper/editions/thursday/editorial_f3d0f034d318e02f00a4.html)

Frustrated veterans accuse Bush of breaking promises (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1222-01.htm)

http://www.awolbush.com/

[img]http://www.awolbush.com/images/bushbillboard2.jpg'>[img]http://www.awolbush.com/images/CheneyBillboard_sm.jpg'>[img]http://www.awolbush.com/images/bushbillboard1.jpg'>

[TEARZ]

Originally posted by Poop Man Bob
I hope you're not being completely honest when you say that Dean is "not an acceptable option." In order to get aWol out of the White House, any Dem (*cough*save Lieberman*cough*) should be an acceptable option.

haha, word, there certainly was a bit of hyperbole involved in the statement. to me, dean isn't an acceptable progressive option; compared to W, he's the motherfucking man.

poop, i would like to see what you would have to say about the articles browner posted a while back. actually, i do think that dean/ his campaign (which i admit has been run brilliantly thus far) HAS portrayed him as something he's not. he's NOT a peace candidate, so why does everyone think that? he's NOT a progressive, but he has widespread progressive support... this isn't just big media spreading the gospel dude, this is opportunism and misrepresentation; big media just noticed the dude a month ago so... a lot of this came/comes from the dean camp, which strategically makes sense for him, i just don't think it's 100% forthright. whatever, he's a politician.

[Don't Panic]

Kucinich is definitely the fucking man. I skipped a class to listen to him on the radio this morning. It sucks that he isn't getting much coverage in the media, lots of people I talk to don't even know who he is, or how to pronounce his name. You'd get the impression Dean has already won the nomination with as many places as you see his face. By the way, when are the primaries over?

[imported_El Mamerro]

My problem with Kucinich is that he can add "repeal the law of gravity" to his list of goals without sounding any less realistic than he already does.

But what the hell, I moved out of the states so I can't vote anyways.

[Poop Man Bob]

Originally posted by TEARZ
poop, i would like to see what you would have to say about the articles browner posted a while back. actually, i do think that dean/ his campaign (which i admit has been run brilliantly thus far) HAS portrayed him as something he's not. he's NOT a peace candidate, so why does everyone think that? he's NOT a progressive, but he has widespread progressive support... this isn't just big media spreading the gospel dude, this is opportunism and misrepresentation; big media just noticed the dude a month ago so... a lot of this came/comes from the dean camp, which strategically makes sense for him, i just don't think it's 100% forthright. whatever, he's a politician.

I promise I'll do a search on the articles tomorrow .. I just have too much shit to do tonight.

And I think your statements re: his campaign are slightly off. You essentially said that he's not X, yet people believe him to be X, therefore it is his campaign's fault. I disagree.

The media, latching on to the lowest denominator, has run with the fact that, because he hollers about the war, he's the PEACE CANDIDATE. The media has further extrapolated this into him being progressive. It's incorrect, as you point out, but the media doesn't seem to care. Read this article (http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/5261.htm) by Dick Morris in yesterday's NY Post, calling Dean "ultra-liberal." (Ignore the fact that Morris is a fucking idiot based on what he says in the article).

Anyway, my basic statement is that his stances have always been available to anyone willing to read them. I believe the press has taken one issue and somehow turned that into his being progressive - thus I don't think one can lay all the blame on his campaign.

And, no, I'm not being thick here - I agree with you that his campaign has used these widespread notions to their advantage .. but anyone in their position would have as well (not that that makes it right, I know).




FURTHERMORE. ahem. The fact that he has widespread progressive support cannot be solely attributed to the fact that he has "misrepresented" himself. If that were true, you are seriously insulting the intelligence of the progressive community. Afterall, as I've said again and again, his views aren't hidden. People can (and do) look at what he stands for. The true question is, then, why do progressives continue to support him even after they realize he's not a progressive's wet dream (especially when DK is much closer to that perceived wet dream)? I believe much of that answer lies in the grass-roots organizing his campaign has done. There are endless ways that people get involved, empowering people and making them excited about the possibility of a Dean presidency. Progressives understand that Dean doesn't represent all of their views. With that said, they still believe in him.


www.deanforamerica.com (http://www.deanforamerica.com)
www.blogforamerica.com (http://www.blogforamerica.com)

[Poop Man Bob]

Oh, and TEARZ - you're definitely a Top-5-12ozer-I'd-Like-To-Have-A-Beer-With. If you're ever in Austin, hit me up.

[rip]

Originally posted by Poop Man Bob
Yeah, Bush has shown a ton of compassion for those in the military these past few years (and his entire life).

/sarcasm.

Read up:
Bush's 'Bring 'em on' speech rings hollow as he cuts benefits for soldiers, veterans (http://www.statesman.com/opinion/content/auto/epaper/editions/thursday/editorial_f3d0f034d318e02f00a4.html)

Frustrated veterans accuse Bush of breaking promises (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1222-01.htm)

http://www.awolbush.com/

http://www.awolbush.com/images/bushbillboard2.jpghttp://www.awolbush.com/images/CheneyBillboard_sm.jpghttp://www.awolbush.com/images/bushbillboard1.jpg well yeah he kinna does, pays been up, benifits is gettin up there, my life insurence is fuckin high, used to only be 250,000 now i think its like 500,000 im not sure though. now if we get a faggot democrate in office the military will be screwd. pay will go down, benifts will be shot to shit, all because there all peacefull an shit. pussys.

[ikueism]

Originally posted by BROWNer
LIEBERMAN





















http://www.usembassy.de/consular/munchen/images/lieberman.jpg


fuck that nigguh.his son is the biggest pussy:lol: :crazy:

[Poop Man Bob]

Originally posted by rip
well yeah he kinna does, pays been up, benifits is gettin up there, my life insurence is fuckin high, used to only be 250,000 now i think its like 500,000 im not sure though. now if we get a faggot democrate in office the military will be screwd. pay will go down, benifts will be shot to shit, all because there all peacefull an shit. pussys.

Did you read any of the articles I posted?

At least read this one (http://www.statesman.com/opinion/content/auto/epaper/editions/thursday/editorial_f3d0f034d318e02f00a4.html).

Or find me an article discussing how pay's been raised, your life insurance is up, etc.

And shouldn't you be happy with a "peaceful pussy?" Or would you rather face an endless deployment in 130° weather?

[shaolinmasta]

Al Sharpton because his name sounds cool

[BROWNer]

good to hear your steez poopsz, although i think solomon's
arguments for kucinich are pretty heavy duty and i would
be on for kucinich most definitely, i think dean has some qualities
in there.......but just on a completely intuitive funk zone level,
i get a weird vibe off dean. it's hard to put a finger on it other than
saying i get the slickster vibe off of him. kucinich is the ONLY
politician i have never gotten that intuitive slime vibe off of,
which is a large reason why i'm pulling for him. dean, in my op,
has this super-hero vibe going right now, the man who's gonna
save us from bush. he's got a slick campaign and some good
platform styles, BUT, can you honestly see him breaking with
the status quo? to me, the status quo is THE problem, and it's
the thing that somebody like kucinich would fuck up. i'm guessing alot of us
feel that a radical shift needs to take place(at least i think so), but it's not going to
happen until we get behind somebody with that really tangible
community spirit, which kucinich has. alot of people detract from him becuz
of that, it's so alien in the larger scale realm of big politics, but right there is
an indicative example of why we need more people like him getting into the ring.
it SHOULD and COULD be realistic. eehhhhh, i hope that makes sense...

[BROWNer]

here (http://www.12ozprophet.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=43511) is norman solomon's analysis.

[shaolinmasta]

1 question are there any women, black or asian or anyone of a different race running?

beacuse if there not it shows how far humans as a whole have come.

[Poop Man Bob]

[img]http://www.dailykos.com/archives/bushindex1.gif'>

[nomadawhat]

Originally posted by shaolinmasta
1 question are there any women, black or asian or anyone of a different race running?

beacuse if there not it shows how far humans as a whole have come.

al sharpton...



good to see that poll.. but bush is going to pull some bullshit to *try to* reverse it... like say, "find" some wmd's in iraq, "kill" o'sama, find another "enemy" and attack... some shit at an opportune time.

[rubbish heap]

1 question are there any women, black or asian or anyone of a different race running?

rumor is hilary clinton in 2008?

[TEARZ]

Originally posted by Poop Man Bob
Oh, and TEARZ - you're definitely a Top-5-12ozer-I'd-Like-To-Have-A-Beer-With. If you're ever in Austin, hit me up.

wordlife dunlop, reciporicality...

[nomadawhat]

Ex-Gen. Clark Decides to Join White House Race
Yahoo Blurb (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=2&u=/nm/20030916/ts_nm/politics_clark_dc)


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Former NATO (news - web sites) commander Wesley Clark has decided to join the 2004 White House race, making the retired four-star Army general the 10th Democratic presidential candidate, political sources said on Tuesday.

Clark, who headed the 1999 NATO bombing campaign in Kosovo but is a political novice, was expected to announce his decision in Little Rock, Arkansas, on Wednesday.

His entry, widely anticipated by many Democrats, throws another wild card into an already unpredictable campaign.

Clark, who had agonized over his decision for months, has been meeting with potential donors and supporters and recently began interviewing prospective campaign managers.

Whether the decorated Vietnam veteran will be a campaign trail star or dud is a subject of much debate among Democrats, who still do not know much about the political rookie.




-- this could be interesting.



Looks like Micheal Moore got his wish.... A letter for MICHel Moore to clark:

Dear General Wesley Clark,
I've been meaning to write to you for some time. Two days after the
Oscars, when I felt very alone and somewhat frightened by the level of hatred toward me for daring to suggest that we were being led into war for "fictitious reasons," one person stuck his neck out and came to my defense on national television.
And that person was you.

Aaron Brown had just finished interviewing me by satellite on CNN, and I had made a crack about me being "the only non-general allowed on CNN all week." He ended the interview and then turned to you, as you were sitting at the desk with him. He asked you what you thought of this crazy guy, Michael Moore. And, although we were still in Week One of the war, you boldly said that my dissent was necessary and welcome, and you pointed out that I was against Bush and his "policies," not the kids in the service. I sat in Flint with the earpiece still in my ear and I was floored -- a GENERAL standing up for me and, in effect, for all the millions who were opposed to the war but had been bullied into silence.
Since that night, I have spent a lot of time checking you out. And what I've learned about you corresponds to my experience with you back in
March. You seem to be a man of integrity. You seem not afraid to speak the truth. I liked your answer when you were asked your position on gun control: "If you are the type of person who likes assault weapons, there is a place for you -- the United States Army. We have them."
In addition to being first in your class at West Point, a four star general
from Arkansas, and the former Supreme Commander of NATO -- enough right there that should give pause to any peace-loving person -- I have discovered that...

1. You oppose the Patriot Act and would fight the expansion of its
powers.

2. You are firmly pro-choice.

3. You filed an amicus brief with the Supreme Court in support of the
University of Michigan's affirmative action case.

4. You would get rid of the Bush tax "cut" and make the rich pay
their fair share.

5. You respect the views of our allies and want to work with them and
with the rest of the international community.

6. And you oppose war. You have said that war should always be the
"last resort" and that it is military men such as yourself who are the most for peace because it is YOU and your soldiers who have to do the dying. You find something unsettling about a commander-in-chief who dons a flight suit and pretends to be Top Gun, a stunt that dishonored those who have died in that flight suit in the service of their country.

General Clark, last night I finally got to meet you in person. I would like
to share with others what I said to you privately: You may be the
person who can defeat George W. Bush in next year's election.

This is not an endorsement. For me, it's too early for that. I have
liked Howard Dean (in spite of his flawed positions in support of some
capital punishment, his grade "A" rating from the NRA, and his opposition to cutting the Pentagon budget). And Dennis Kucinich is so committed to all the right stuff. We need candidates in this race who will say the things that need to be said, to push the pathetically lame Democratic Party into have a backbone -- or get out of the way and let us have a REAL second party on the ballot.

But right now, for the sake and survival of our very country, we need
someone who is going to get The Job done, period. And that job, no
matter whom I speak to across America -- be they leftie Green or
conservative Democrat, and even many disgusted Republicans -- EVERYONE is of one mind as to what that job is:

Bush Must Go.

This is war, General, and it's Bush & Co.'s war on us. It's their war
on the middle class, the poor, the environment, their war on women and their war against anyone around the world who doesn't accept total American domination. Yes, it's a war -- and we, the people, need a general to beat back those who have abused our Constitution and our basic sense of decency.

The General vs. the Texas Air National Guard deserter! I want to see
that debate, and I know who the winner is going to be.

The other night, when you were on Bill Maher's show, he began by reading to you a quote from Howard Dean where he (Dean) tried to run away from the word "liberal." Maher said to you, so, General, do you want to run away from that word? Without missing a beat, you said "No!" and you reminded everyone that America was founded as a "liberal democracy." The audience went wild with applause.

That is what we have needed for a long time on our side -- guts. I am
sure there are things you and I don't see eye to eye on, but now is the
time for all good people from the far left to the middle of the road to bury the damn hatchet and get together behind someone who is not only good on the issues but can beat George W. Bush. And where I come from in the Midwest,
General, I know you are the kind of candidate that the average American will vote for.

Michael Moore likes a general? I never thought I'd write these words.
But desperate times call for desperate measures. I want to know more
about you. I want your voice heard. I would like to see you in these debates. Then let the chips fall where they may -- and we'll all have a better idea of what to do. If you sit it out, then I think we all know what we are left with.

I am asking everyone I know to send an email to you now to encourage
you to run, even if they aren't sure they would vote for you. (Wesley
Clark's email address is: mailto:info@leadershipforamerica.org
<mailto:info@leadershipforamerica.org> ). None of us truly know how
we will vote five months from now or a year from now. But we do know
that this race needs a jolt -- and Bush needs to know that there is one
person he won't be able to Dukakisize.

Take the plunge, General Clark. At the very least, the nation needs
to hear what you know about what was really behind this invasion of Iraq and your fresh ideas of how we can live in a more peaceful world. Yes, your country
needs you to perform one more act of brave service -- to help defeat
an enemy from within, at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, an address that used to belong to "we, the people."

Yours,

Michael Moore
Lottery # 275, U.S. military draft, 1972
Conscientious Objector applicant
>mailto:mmflint@aol.com <mailto:mmflint@aol.com>

http://www.michaelmoore.com <http://www.michaelmoore.com/>

[Vanity]

Originally posted by BROWNer
.......but just on a completely intuitive funk zone level,
i get a weird vibe off dean. it's hard to put a finger on it other than
saying i get the slickster vibe off of him.

word.. cat just seems like he just cares about power. if dean gets the primary, i wont vote for him... same w/ the leibmeister. i won't choose the lesser of two evils. and i don't care who kucinich "supports." a lot of these cats running are just going for that target demographic for the sake of the party, so they can "support" whoever gets the nomination and sell their votes.

[TEARZ]

"Wesley Clark's High Noon Moment"
From The Nation 9/12
by Katrina vanden Heuvel

It was reported today that retired four-star General, ardent critic of Bush's national security policies, telegenic TV commentator, and recently declared Democrat Wesley Clark will enter the crowded presidential race?

Democrats believe that Clark, as a former military officer, could make the party more viable on foreign affairs than it's been since a general named George Marshall was containing Communism under the command of a president named Harry Truman. (That's the conventional wisdom, though the staggering cost of the badly bungled Iraqi occupation has diminished the Republican advantage on defense no matter who runs against Bush.)

While media commentary on Clark's prospective candidacy has been almost entirely favorable--even adulatory--it's worth looking back at a forgotten chapter in his military biography that occurred when Clark was Supreme Allied Commander of NATO and Commander In Chief for the US European Command. Call it Clark's "High Noon" showdown. It's an incident that deserves scrutiny because Clark's claim to be an experienced leader in national security matters is tied, in significant part, to his record in the Balkans.

On June 12, 1999, in the immediate aftermath of NATO's air war against Yugoslavia, a small contingent of Russian troops dashed to occupy the Pristina airfield in Kosovo. Clark was so anxious to stop the Russians that he ordered an airborne assault to confront these units--an order which could have unleashed the most frightening showdown with Moscow since the end of the Cold War. Hyperbole? You can decide. But British General Michael Jackson, the three-star general and commander of K-FOR, the international force organized and commanded by NATO to enforce an agreement in Kosovo, told Clark: "Sir, I'm not starting world war three for you," when refusing to accept his order to prevent Russian forces from taking over the airport. (Jackson was rightly worried that any precipitous NATO action could risk a confrontation with a nuclear- armed Russia and upset the NATO-led peacekeeping plan just getting underway with the withdrawal of Serbian forces from Kosovo.)

After being rebuffed by Jackson, Clark, according to various media reports at the time, then ordered Admiral James Ellis, the American in charge of NATO's southern command, to use Apache helicopters to occupy the airfield. Ellis didn't comply--replying that British General Jackson would oppose such a move. Had Clark's orders been followed, the subsequent NATO- negotiated compromise with the Russians--a positive element in the roller- coaster relationship between Moscow and Washington, which eventually incorporated Russian troops into peacekeeping operations--might well have been undermined.

In the end, Russian reinforcements were stopped when Washington persuaded Hungary, a new NATO member, to refuse to allow Russian aircraft to fly over its territory. Meanwhile, Jackson was appealing to senior British authorities, who persuaded Clinton Administration officials--some of whom had previously favored occupying the airport--to drop support for Clark's hotheaded plan. As a result, when Clark appealed to Washington, he was rebuffed at the highest levels. His virtually unprecedented showdown with a subordinate subsequently prompted hearings by the Armed Forces Services Committee, which raised sharp questions about NATO's chain of command.

As a Guardian article said at the time, "The episode triggers reminscences of the Korean War. Then, General Douglas MacArthur, commander of the UN force, wanted to invade, even nuke, China, until he was brought to heel by President Truman." Of course, the comparison is inexact. The stakes were not as high in the Balkans, but Clark's hip-shooting willingness to engage Russian troops in a risky military showdown at the end of the war is instructive nonetheless.

Indeed, it is believed in military circles that Clark's Pristina incident was the final straw that led the Pentagon to relieve him of his duties (actually retire him earlier). Clark had also angered the Pentagon brass--and Secretary of Defense William Cohen in particular--with his numerous media appearances and repeated public requests for more weapons and for more freedom to wage the Kosovo war the way he wanted (with ground troops). At one point, according to media reports, Defense Secretary Cohen, through Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Hugh Shelton, told Clark to "get your fucking face off of TV."

In recent years, it's only fair to note, Clark has insisted in interviews and in his memoir Waging Modern War that the incident was a surprising moment for him. Clark said that his order to confront the Russian troops was refused by an emotional General Jackson, who took the matter up the British chain of command, where General Charles Guthrie, British Chief of Defence, said that he agreed with Jackson. Guthrie, according to Clark, told him that Joint Chiefs Chairman Shelton also agreed with the British. This surprised Clark because he claims that the original suggestion to block the Russians came from Washington. Clark maintains that the matter was a policy problem between the US and British governments and insists that he was carrying out the suggestions of the Clinton Administration.

Despite concerns this incident raises, it remains a fact that the Clark candidacy is a tantalizing prospect. Clark says he is a liberal Democrat who favors abortion rights, affirmative action, gun control and progressive economic policies. He has also spoken eloquently about basing America's role in the world on the country's better principles: "generosity, humility, engagement..."

The other day, Clark told Bill Maher on HBO that this country was founded on "the idea that people could talk, reason, have dialogue, discuss the issues…We can't lose that in this country. We've got to get it back."

Perhaps Clark has learned that building alliances--and not risking showdowns--is more crucial than ever in these perilous times? It would be good to hear from the general himself now that he has decided to run for president.

[TEARZ]

ps- dean does give me the scummy vibe too. but he'd also get my boost versus dubya.

[Vanity]

i'd write in before i settle.

the one thing that dean's campaign did lous y on was having him open his commercials with "that's why i approved this statement"

ha ha, wow, a guy that can approve his own words.

[TEARZ]

mental invalid, you peepin this shit?

[TEARZ]

for all my nerdsz

[BROWNer]

nice snafu dunny lop.

i just realized who this clark guy is...he's the
mouthpiece i saw on cnn all the time back when
i had cable. no way i trust that dude. and
watch michael moore too, dude is lap dancin'
for clark in a thong.

[Vanity]

yeah, fuck michael moore... he can be funny sometimes....
but politically, he aint shit.

[BROWNer]

i wouldn't say fuck michael moore, but...
i just find him way less than rigorous..

so..if anyone wants to read moore's googoogaga
over clark it can be found here (http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/09/271764.shtml), along
with practically every article ever written on the wesley clark,
the new media darling.
^

[Vanity]

i would...
his counter culture show was amusing.. his hit on nbc was kinda lame.
bowling for columbine was funny, but he didn't get into any real arguments against weapons, just tried to belittle people, and when you're making a movie, it's pretty easy.

i haven't read anything of his, except some stuff on his site here and there... i remember him complaining after 911, how before he'd just hand the airport guard a bag, say it's a sandwich, and the guard didn't even check.. but he seems like the same kind of cat that would have been complaining about needless spending on airports a week before.

i dunno.. he just seems egotistical, judgemental, self-righteous, and doesn't fight fair.

[BROWNer]

well, whatever..guy is dedicated to takin' bush down,
and he's got moms and dads listening, packaged in this
morally lightweight dramedy style, so he's got some worth, right?
the new book is coming out, and he's backing it up with
a movie on how bush is connected to 9/11...
dude needs to shave though.

on another paranoid note, today on msnbc they have this
article raging on about how wesley clark is now
way ahead of every other dem and he just fucking rolled
up last week! are people blind? i'm sick of this dude already,
and not becuz he's jostlin' up the scene..i just don't like him.
dude kinda smellsz to me.
what really sucked, was that kucinich had a lousy 2%
poll approval, while clark was at 48% or something, over
even bush. what the fuck? this guy is on some shit or
something...but he's just another status quo lovin' good ol' boy.
wait..i smell grey propaganda.......rove hooked up dude
to rock the dem anti-war position, the alternative to bush,
and come his election, dude does the splits on it all. if rove
was REALLY clever........no?

[TEARZ]

just as a quick frame of reference for those of you that think that it's impossible for him to win and thus shouldn't be supported:

bill clinton was polling at 4% in NOVEMBER '91.

it's doable.

i just arranged two speaking engagements for the dude this afternoon. he might cancel though, haha.

clark smells fishy yo. i swear americans see some military uniform and they come running up to lick balls. it's the fucking might makes right mentality...

[DREDZ]

Carol Mosley Braun (I think I spelled her last name wrong) is running, and honestly, she is the one I see myself voting for.

[Vanity]

yeah, clark.. bleh.... he just seems kind of like "lets get our man on their side, then they have to vote for the same thing no matter what"

[TEARZ]

Congressman Dennis Kucinich continued his leadership today
on Capitol Hill today by introducing the first comprehensive
bill to repeal offensive sections of the misnamed "USA PATRIOT
Act." The Kucinich bill -- called the "Benjamin Franklin True
Patriot Act" -- is already supported by the ACLU, NAACP, a
Jewish group, an Islamic group, and 20 members of Congress.

Kucinich's bill would repeal sections of the original "PATRIOT
Act," that authorize 'sneak and peak' searches; warrantless
library, medical, educational, and financial record searches;
and the detention and deportation of non-citizens without
meaningful judicial review. Passage would be the final deadline
-- or death -- for the "PATRIOT Act."

Rep. Kucinich is the only presidential candidate who voted
against the "PATRIOT Act" in October, 2001. The other Democrats
in Congress currently running for president all voted for it --
and Howard Dean has said, "I never criticize them for that" in
view of the post-9/11 pressure. Congressman Kucinich stood up
to the pressure then...and now.

At a news conference today, Kucinich invoked the words of Ben
Franklin, "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase
a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Kucinich added: "Will we stand by as the Administration formulates
a second more dangerous "PATRIOT Act" because, in the President's
words, 'the first bill didn't go far enough'? Or will we step
back from this atmosphere of fear and work to restore our basic
freedoms and rights? With the introduction of the True Patriot
Act, I say we take back our Constitution."

[imported_DISCO BRYSO]

michael moore came here and soon realized he has the same name as the ex-head of the WTO.. but tons of people still showed up to "riot"... stupid. I like him just as much as the next guy/girl, but shit... how much of one person's opinion do we need? he's famous alright.

and just so you know.. I'm voting for lyndon larouche.

[rubbish heap]

this is exactly the reason i support kucinich... supporting groups like the ALCU and defending the constitution... he's making decisions based on morality, not popular opinion.

[serum]

Wed Sep 24, 4:19 PM ET Add Top Stories - Reuters to My Yahoo!
By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Correspondent

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites)'s anti-abortion policy has forced family planning clinics in poor countries to close, leaving some communities without any healthcare, according to a report issued Wednesday.



Even faith-based clinics that promote abstinence -- in line with White House policy -- have had to close, according to organizers.


Under the policy, known as the Mexico City rule by supporters and the Global Gag rule by opponents, foreign family planning agencies cannot receive U.S. funds if they provide abortion services or lobby to make or keep abortion legal in their own country.


A survey of Ethiopia, Kenya, Romania and Zambia by Population Action International and the Planned Parenthood (news - web sites) Federation of America showed the rule had forced clinics to close and left many men and women without access to contraceptives that could prevent both unwanted pregnancies and AIDS (news - web sites).


"You cannot separate HIV (news - web sites)/AIDS, reproductive health and abortion," said Hillary Fyfe, who heads the Family Life Movement of Zambia, a faith-based group working with adolescents on sex education.


While her group does not promote abortion or even condom use, it does talk about the possibility, and that was enough to lose U.S. funding, Fyfe said. Three clinics in Lusaka closed this year.


"We taught natural family planning and abstinence until marriage," Fyfe said in an interview. Now her group will be unable to holds its workshops unless they can find alternative funding, Fyfe said.


The same is happening in several countries, according to the report.


"Health services have been scaled back and closings of reproductive health clinics have left some communities with no healthcare provider," the group wrote in a statement.


HURTING AIDS EFFORTS


The policy has also hurt AIDS prevention efforts, said the group, which published the findings on the Internet at www.globalgagrule.org (http://www.globalgagrule.org).


As one of his first acts in office in 2001, Bush reinstated the rule that former President Bill Clinton (news - web sites), a Democrat, had lifted. The rule was originally imposed in 1984 by President Ronald Reagan (news - web sites) at a Mexico City conference.


Last month Bush ordered the State Department to strengthen the rule by withholding U.S. family planning help from overseas groups that promote or perform abortions with their own money.


Five family planning clinics run by nongovernmental organizations have closed in Kenya because they refused the restrictions and lost funding from the U.S. Agency for International development, the report said.


"As a result, they are prevented from participating in a large-scale integrated health care program funder by the U.S. Agency for International Development, which curtails the effectiveness and reach of the program," the report reads.


In Kenya's Mathare Valley, a family planning clinic closed, leaving 300,000 people with no healthcare services. "And there is no other family planning or reproductive health clinic nearby," the report said.


In Romania, women may be more likely to get abortions, not fewer, because the rule has meant more women cannot get any information on contraceptives that can prevent unwanted pregnancies, the report said.





"This is the real face of Bush's compassionate conservatism -- a war on the world's most vulnerable women and children, who bear the brunt of Bush's obsession with appeasing his domestic political base," Planned Parenthood's Gloria Feldt said in a statement.

But White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said the policy only affected family planning clinics, not general health clinics.

"The president had just unveiled a $15 billion program to address the biggest healthcare crisis facing Africa, which is AIDS," she said in a telephone interview. "Any organization that wants to participate in delivering healthcare services relating to AIDS can do so."

[serum]

its funny how we are supposed to be helping africa with their aids problem by taking away condoms and giving them christian morals. as if i didn`t hate the guy already. now taking away abortion rights to poor third world people so only the rich can afford it. who wants to shoot him first? lets take numbers. bush and his whole token cabinet.

[rubbish heap]

I can't stand Conservatives. :idea:

[Vanity]

i think you should differentiate between real convervatives and neo-conservatives... i dont think convervativism is any worse than liberalism, just a different end of the spectrum... real conservatives know the deal w/ bush and how he doesnt represent their views (all the gov't spending, infringements on civil liberties, etc), the religous right would be considered neo conservatives because they obviously dont care about the seperation between church and state.

[ClueTwo]

SHARPTON POR VIDA LOCAS>>>

Yeah fuckin right...What the fuck do we need a president for anywayz..??
:rolleyes:

[BROWNer]

john^updike.


ps-kucinich is puttin'
the heat on that
fat bald heart problem
of a criminal.

[Sarah Tonin]

who was that guy who called up cycle ,sp.one do his background in the campaign....

[rubbish heap]

listened to an interview of lieberman the other day. i cannot stand his ideas on the patriot act, domestic security or pretty much anything else he talked about.

kuccinich really deserves more spotlight.

[rubbish heap]

p.s. sarahtonin, your picture isn't showing up.

[rubbish heap]

[img]http://images.usatoday.com/news/washdc/_photos/2002-07-30-lieberman.jpg'>
<span style='color:orange'>"Anyone who does not support me is an idiot."</span>

[Vanity]

kind of an interesting site:
http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm

still not too encouraging though

[imported_El Mamerro]

[img]http://images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2003/db031002.gif'>

[BROWNer]

Originally posted by serum
its funny how we are supposed to be helping africa with their aids problem by taking away condoms and giving them christian morals.

infectious diseases account for 50+% of deaths annually in developing countries.
measles and mumps are more of an 'epidemic' in africa than aids. or at least that's what my microbiology prof's research says.

[Vanity]

well, it's official:

Rep. Kucinich Announces White House Bid
1 hour, 7 minutes ago

By CONNIE MABIN, Associated Press Writer

CLEVELAND - Democrat Dennis Kucinich, the liberal four-term congressman who has been steadfast in his opposition to the Iraq war, formally launched his long-shot bid for the White House Monday.
[img]http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20031013/thumb.ny10710130316.kucinich_ny107.jpg'>
"Miracles occur when our faith meets our vision, when believing is seeing," said Kucinich, who recalled years ago watching the flames from the stacks at an Ohio steel factory and imagining running for president.


Kucinich, who has been campaigning for months, made the announcement in his hometown of Cleveland, the first stop of a 12-state tour that will include Michigan, New Hampshire, Wisconsin and Iowa.


"I'm running for president of the United States to enable the armies of peace," Kucinich told some 300 supporters in the chambers of the Cleveland city council, largely quiet on the Columbus Day holiday.


The candidate has stressed several themes during his months on the campaign trail and in candidates' debates: his opposition to the U.S.-led war against Iraq and his call for American troops to return home; his desire to end the North American Free Trade Agreement that he argues costs U.S. jobs and his support for a single-payer, universal health care system.


The kickoff speech at Cleveland's City Hall served as a reminder of Kucinich's political triumphs and bitter disappointments. Elected in 1977, the 31-year-old "boy mayor" guided a city that two years later became the first since the Depression to go into default.


Kucinich faced death threats, and was forced to wear a bulletproof vest when he threw out the first ball at a Cleveland Indians game.


He barely survived a recall election but lost his bid for re-election by a landslide. Then, in the 1990s, he made a political comeback, winning a state Senate seat and eventually capturing a U.S. House seat in 1996.


Kucinich began campaigning for the Democratic presidential nomination some eight months ago but trails many of his well-established rivals in fund raising and public opinion polls. He raised $1.7 million during a three-month period ending June 30 and hopes to show an additional $1.5 million when campaign finance reports are filed Wednesday.


"I don't think he's in the race because he thinks he has a chance to win it," said Dave Rohde, a Michigan State University political science professor. "He's in the race, at the very least, to give public vent to some of his concerns."


Kucinich is likely to appear not only on the presidential ballot but as a candidate seeking re-election to his House seat. He must file for both by Jan. 2, according to the Ohio Secretary of State's office.

[imported_SenorSeven]

Dean mu'fuckers. howard fucking dean.

[BROWNer]

even though he may realistically have a slim chance, it kinda
sucks that his chances are always referred to as such.
i've read it so much now i believe it and if i was joe-not-enough-time-
to-read-up-on-shit US voter i'd probly for sure vote someone else
becuz they just keep sayin' dude has no chance..so why bother
voting for him?

[BROWNer]

Originally posted by SenorSeven
Dean mu'fuckers. howard fucking dean.

hear me now and believe me later,
dean will be mr. status quo.

[imported_El Mamerro]

Originally posted by BROWNer
even though he may realistically have a slim chance, it kinda
sucks that his chances are always referred to as such.
i've read it so much now i believe it and if i was joe-not-enough-time-
to-read-up-on-shit US voter i'd probly for sure vote someone else
becuz they just keep sayin' dude has no chance..so why bother
voting for him?

I don't know, after going through his stances on most issues, I feel it is very, very unrealistic to think that he would have the support of the nation even if they actually read up on what he is about. I don't think he represents what the vast majority of the country want on the helm.

[rubbish heap]

Originally posted by El Mamerro
I don't know, after going through his stances on most issues, I feel it is very, very unrealistic to think that he would have the support of the nation even if they actually read up on what he is about. I don't think he represents what the vast majority of the country want on the helm.

this is true. the whole peace thing, where he promises to sign all these treaties while in the white house, is kind of pushing it.

still, he would get a lot of things done while in office, and i support his ideas on doing away with the patriot act and the NAFTA.

but hell, i'm no genius in politics.

[Vanity]

i don't know how much he'd actually get done... how many of his resolutions do you think would make it through congress?

[BROWNer]

you're probably right mamerro.

[rubbish heap]

WELCOME TO PAGE FOUR

true true.

i need to read up more on other canidates :idea:

[Milton]

[img]http://www.schillerinstitute.org/graphics/photos/lyn_pix/larouche.jpg'>

LAROUCHE IN '04... WHAT???

[alou]

i want wesley clark

[rubbish heap]

Originally posted by Milton
[img]http://www.schillerinstitute.org/graphics/photos/lyn_pix/larouche.jpg'>

LAROUCHE IN '04... WHAT???

who the fuck...?:confused:

[Ferris Bueller]

Clark. Dude sounds real.

I sure as hell hope Bush does not get re-elected.

That whole $80+Billion he wants is just asinine.

[alou]

yeah it is almost to the point where i would vote for anyone just to be voting against bush.

[Vanity]

HARTFORD, CT—Eager to distinguish himself in the nine-member field of Democratic candidates, presidential hopeful Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-CT) pledged Monday to "gloss over any and all issues boring to Americans today."

[img]http://www.theonion.com/images/273/article1990.jpg'>

Above: Lieberman tells Hartford voters he'll be brief.

"Are you sick of politics as usual in Washington?" Lieberman said at a campaign fundraiser held at the downtown Hartford Hilton. "Are you sick of politics in general? Well, I can see why. Politics, frankly, is boring. In this campaign, I promise to slide past the tedious issues and get to the point: I want to be your next president! Vote Joe in 2004!"

"Endless details, mathematical proposals, and tax plans," Lieberman continued. "Why should the nation as a whole have to tolerate all that?"

Lieberman, among the most politically moderate of the Democratic hopefuls, first delivered this new stump speech in New York on Oct. 3. On that day, he promised a group of factory workers in Buffalo that all future speeches would focus on his ultimate goals instead of on the intricate workings of his actual proposals.

"Americans are very busy, and I won't bore them with the details of my positions," Lieberman said. "I think George W. Bush is doing a terrible job as America's chief executive, both at home and abroad. I'd do much better. I'd keep America safe. It's all very complicated when you get into it, so I'll spare you the boring legislation-this and appropriations-that. All you need to know is that I'm on it."

To growing applause, Lieberman quickly ran through a list of issues important to voters.

"The economy? I'll make it better," he said. "Reconstruction of Iraq? No problem. International relations? I'll patch those up in my first 100 days. Poverty? I got a plan."

"World trade? Women's rights? Education? Yes, yes, and yes," said Lieberman, who spent the next 45 minutes discussing the Red Sox.

Reached by phone at his office Tuesday, Lieberman re-emphasized his commitment to instituting change, rather than talking about the mechanics of instituting change.

"This great nation needs a leader who's willing to roll up his sleeves," he said. "Exactly what I'm going to do, and how I'm going to do it—ack, forget about it. Unlike some of my opponents, I solemnly pledge not to annoy you with endless status reports in the process."

This new message marks a change for Lieberman, who relied on hard-to-understand, fact-riddled positions during his unsuccessful bid for the vice-presidency in 2000.

"I'm the same Joe Lieberman I've always been, just a little easier to tolerate in long stretches," Lieberman said. "I haven't changed on the issues, though—just look at my voting record. Actually, don't waste your time. Those things are really dense."

When pressed for more information, Lieberman sighed.

"Well, you asked for it," Lieberman said. "I'm pro-business, pro-national-security, and pro-health-care. I'm a bit more conservative than some of the other Democratic candidates in this race. But I'm a lot less boring. That's the last time you'll hear all of that."

A reporter asked Lieberman for his stance on Chinese currency valuation after Monday's speech.

Lieberman shook his head. "Listen, I know that the renminbi has been pegged within a narrow band around 8.3 to the U.S. dollar for nearly a decade, and that China refuses to revalue it despite increasing international pressure," he said. "But everyone else in the country doesn't need to know that. If there's a problem, I'll do everything in my power to fix it. Now, back to the real issue: I can and will skip right past the whoozits and whatsits. Not just during the election, but throughout my entire term as president."

While he acknowledged that some critics see Lieberman's pledge as simplistic, campaign director Craig Smith said it demonstrates the senator's understanding of the average voter.

Lieberman's web site is only one page long. It features a short bullet-point list of his stance on issues—pro-business, pro-national-security, and pro-health-care—and two helpful charts of "Joe's Likes" and "Joe's Dislikes."

Many voters have responded positively to Lieberman's campaign promise.

"I liked his speech. It was nice and short," said Carol Meadows, 45, of Lancaster, PA. "He said he'd fix everything that's wrong, and then the music started playing again."

Some critics have dismissed Lieberman's concise message as a vote-grabbing ploy, launched in response to the record-breaking fundraising of former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean and retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark. But Lieberman's press secretary, Jano Cabrera, insisted that the senator's campaign strategy was intended to benefit the public, not the campaign.

"Let me ask you this: Would the average American rather read the Financial Times or People?" Cabrera said. "Joe Lieberman is finally giving the people what they want, while other candidates just go on and on and on and on."

"It's like, next campaign stop: Yawnsville," said Cabrera, who then pretended to fall asleep standing up. "Wake me up when Howard Dean's done talking."

[rubbish heap]

god i cant stand that guy...

[TEARZ]

Kucinich Demands Stations Cease Airing Dean Ad,

Cites False Statements About Opponents

For Immediate Release: October 24, 2003



Press Conference: 2 p.m., Oct. 24, Portsmouth, N.H., Sheraton Harbor
Side, 250
Market St.



The attorney for the Kucinich Campaign, Donald J. McTigue, has sent a
letter
to all of the television stations broadcasting in New Hampshire asking
that
they "not air or immediately cease and desist from airing" an
advertisement
produced by Gov. Howard Dean's campaign, and requesting that they
"provide
Kucinich for President, Inc. air time equivalent to the time in which
you have
already aired the advertisement free of charge so that Congressman
Kucinich
may have an opportunity to correct the falsehoods contained in the
advertisement." The letter can be read at:
http://kucinich.us/Cease.pdf



The Kucinich campaign will be writing to the FTC and the FCC regarding
this
false and misleading advertising.



Congressman Dennis Kucinich commented:

"I am proud of my record of opposition to the War on Iraq and the
Occupation
of Iraq, and I will not stand by while a fellow Democrat distorts my
record
and his own. A political campaign should be about clarifying our
positions,
not distorting them. When Gov. Dean denied his own position on the
retirement
age for Social Security during the AFL-CIO debate, he apparently
thought no
one would notice. Now he is trying to oppose the Occupation of Iraq in
television ads but support it in debates and in conversations with
newspaper
editors. Does he imagine that no one will notice these contradictions?
We
already have a problem with the current President using this war for
political
gain, saying one thing and doing another. Our country does not need to
see
the same behavior from Democrats. Now is a time for honesty, not
distortion."

[imported_ubejinxed]

I dunno if this was posted b4 but

DENNIS KUCINICH
Environment and Energy
Kucinich pledges to toughen enforcement of environmental protections and to use tax incentives to encourage businesses to conserve energy, prevent pollution and eliminate toxins from manufacturing. He supports the Kyoto agreement curbing carbon gas outputs, and encourages investment in alternative energy sources like hydrogen, solar and wind power. He hopes to see the U.S. eventually export renewable energy technologies.



Foreign Policy & Defense
Kucinich voted against the war in Iraq, and he wants troops brought home immediately, leaving the postwar rebuilding to the United Nations. He would stress diplomacy and work to reinstate treaties the Bush Administration withdrew from. He proposes banning weapons from space, and a cabinet-level Department of Peace to promote nonviolence at home and abroad. He would cut military spending he considers wasteful. On trade, Kucinich would withdraw from NAFTA and the World Trade Organization, and negotiate future agreements with conditions guaranteeing labor standards, human rights and environmental protection. He wants to lift the embargo on Cuba.


Education
Kucinich believes schools need to emphasize creative and critical thinking over test-preparation. He would dramatically increase funding to reduce class sizes, increase teacher salaries, renovate buildings and expand pre-school and after-school programs. He proposes reducing the costs of college, although he hasn't provided details, and also to provide job training for students who aren't college bound.


Homeland Security and Immigration
Kucinich wants to repeal the Patriot Act, which he feels encroaches too much on civil liberties. His cabinet level Department of Peace would address violence in the home, spousal abuse, child abuse, gangs and police-community relations conflicts.

[imported_ubejinxed]

he has my vote.

[rubbish heap]

god, he knows his shit and what he wants to get done, and yet no one gives him the time of day. dean can't make up his damn mind, but kucinich can.

bump to the top.

[eseLokE1uno]

Originally posted by alou
i want wesley clark

[Dick Quickwood]

i just realized i'll be eligible to vote in 2004. i look forward to next year because i will be able to put up 04 next to my tags instead of 03.

[BROWNer]

hahahaha, vanity bringin' the top notch shit.

[uncle-boy]

[img]http://www.darthvader-starwars.com/images/vader.gif'>

im voting Vader

[rubbish heap]

[img]http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/990812/clark2.jpg'>

[mackmode]

Originally posted by rubbish heap
[img]http://www.cnn.com/interactive/allpolitics/0209/iraq.reax.0912/gal.kucinich.jpg'>
Vote for this guy.

[img]http://www.lordoftherings.net/legend/gallery/images/gollum/gollum1.jpg'>

GOLLUM 04!

:lol:

seriously,

Kucinich is the man though.

he may not seem to have a chance, but HAVE HOPE, don't give up on him yet, NO primaries votes have been cast yet, so there is no "front" runner. I bet if we put Kucinich in a debate against Bush he would outsmart him and crush him.

DEAN WON'T BEAT BUSH, period. Clark is a sure-shot. but Kucinich is who SHOULD be.

people on 12oz actually voted for Bush???

[Fuck Ya'll]

Democrats Have the Answers
John Tierney._New York Times._(Late Edition (East Coast)). New York, N.Y.:_ Dec 28, 2003.__

1. Which Democratic presidential hopeful's world-class hair inspired the White House staff to nickname him ''Breck Girl''?
Answer: John Edwards

2. What actions did the candidate take after being called ''Breck Girl''?
Answer: Handed out bottles of Breck shampoo when he announced his candidacy and went to a shorter hairstyle.

3. Which position has Howard Dean taken on the North American Free Trade Agreement?
a) Supports it.
B) Opposes any agreement like it.
c) Says, ''Nafta is here to stay.''
d) Says America must negotiate a ''New Deal'' with Mexico.
Answer: All of the above

4. When asked by The Quad-City Times in Iowa to complete the sentence, ''I'm the first person you'd come to if you need help with . . . '' Joseph I. Lieberman, Dennis J. Kucinich and Messrs. Edwards and Kerry gave the following answers. Who said what?
Answer: Kucinich

5. Match Wesley K. Clark, Richard A. Gephardt and Messrs. Dean, Edwards, Kerry and Lieberman with the occupations of their fathers or stepfathers.
a) Bakery-truck driver = Lieberman
B) Diplomat = Kerry
c) Milk-truck driver = Gephardt
d) Mill worker = Edwards
e) Stockbroker = Dean
f) Worm rancher = Clark

6. Match each personal issue with the candidate who discussed it.
a) His father's death in his youth = Clark
B) His daughter's lesbianism = Gephardt
c) His son's prostate cancer = Gephardt
d) His brother's disappearance = Dean
e) His divorce and subsequent difficulties dating = Kerry
f) His current difficulties dating = Kucinich


part 2 of the quiz tomorrow... I'm tired.

[Fuck Ya'll]

7. In a recent New York Times/CBS poll, what fraction of voters said candidates had spent ''too much'' time discussing personal issues?
Answer: By contrast, only 7 percent of those polled said candidates spent ''too little'' time discussing personal issues.


8. Which candidate, by his own reckoning, is a dead ringer for the Old Man of the Mountain, the famous rock formation in New Hampshire?
Answer: Kerry


9. What similarity was noted over the last year between the Old Man of the Mountain and his lookalike's poll figures in New Hampshire?
Answer: The granite formation collapsed (in May)


10. Match each of the nine candidates (Carol Moseley Braun and Messrs. Clark, Dean, Edwards, Gephardt, Kerry, Kucinich, Lieberman and Sharpton) with a campaign slogan.
a) For an America That Will Inspire the World Once More = Kucinich
B) The Courage to Do What's Right for America = Kerry
c) Take the ''Men Only'' Sign Off the White House Door = Braun
d) Real Solutions for America = Edwards
e) Take This Country Back = Dean
f) Integrity, Independence, Ideas = Lieberman
g) New American Patriotism = Clark
h) Fighting for Fundamental Human Rights = Sharpton
i) Stop George Bush and Fight for America's Middle Class = Gephardt


11. In a speech changing his campaign motto from ''The Courage to Do What's Right for America'' to ''The Real Deal,'' given underneath giant banners bearing the new phrase, the candidate dramatically declared that Americans are looking for ''solutions, not just slogans.'' Afterward, when he was asked by the press whether ''The Real Deal'' was not just another slogan, how did he respond?
a) It's a ''theme,'' not a ''slogan.''
B) It's a ''coherent program,'' not a ''catch phrase.''
c) It's a ''get-real philosophy,'' not a ''cheap sound bite.''
d) ''Voters this year are looking for nuance, not nitpicking.''
Answer: A (Kerry)


More questions tomorrow....

[rubbish heap]

Originally posted by mackmode

DEAN WON'T BEAT BUSH, period. Clark is a sure-shot. but Kucinich is who SHOULD be.

people on 12oz actually voted for Bush???

agreed, 100 percent.

bush deserves to be impeached. if you're wondering why, read that old post about all his "achievements" in ch. zero.

dean goes back and forth, who really knows where his agenda is?

at first he was gaining plenty of praise from the media, now it's all turned into complaint and insult.

but i think clark is where it's at, even though kucinich deserves it and has the right ideas.

nice quiz, fuck yall.

[BROWNer]

i was never really down with dean, aside from
the possibility of him taking bush down, but damn,
he's getting slapped around and the shaping in
big media is getting bad.
now who?