L.A.'s Budding Mogadishus

[Carl Winslow.]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commen...omment-opinions (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-rice23dec23,1,4268203.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions)

L.A.'s Budding Mogadishus

Nearly feral areas need urgent help.

By Constance L. Rice, Constance L. Rice is a civil rights attorney in
Los Angeles.

In Brazil's favelas, murder is the leading cause of death for
10-year-olds. In these urban hyper-barrios, police patrol in
helicopter gunships. Any delusion of crime prevention gave way to
containment and suppression long ago. At night, black children hide
from both rogue cops and gang members; the rich venture from their
fortress homes nearby only in armored vehicles or private planes. In
the midst of Rio de Janeiro's splendor, favelas are at a tipping point
- on the way to joining Mogadishu as wholly failed "feral" cities,
engulfed by gangs, black markets, rapacious crime and dysfunction.

Could Los Angeles be headed down this road? No, not anytime soon, at
least for the vast majority of the city. But the hot spots of
underclass Los Angeles are well on the way. If ignored, they will
metastasize, and eventually pose a real danger to the larger region.

L.A.'s hot zones are tiny, intensely dangerous areas where nothing
works, where law has broken down and mainstream institutions simply
fail. Places where mail carriers and meter readers balk when the
bullets fly. Where paramedics and firefighters are hesitant to enter
because of the crossfire. Where police officers go in only heavily
reinforced or with helicopters; in the LAPD's South Bureau there was
an 80% increase in sniper fire on police in 2004, according to a
report by LAPD Chief William Bratton.

These zones are often found in and near public housing projects,
although the worst privately owned slums - like the gang-ridden
apartment complex at 69th and Main that was recently ordered evacuated by the city - mirror the conditions.

In Jordan Downs, for instance, one of three gang-dominated housing
projects in Watts, the predominantly African American Grape Street
Crips routinely beat Latinos (among others), engage in regular
home-invasion robberies and have been known to murder residents who
dare report their activities. When the LAPD set up a police kiosk in
Jordan to quell rising crime, the gangs blew it up; the LAPD left and
did not return for more than a decade. In the Ramona Gardens housing
project, the last three black families didn't survive long enough to
suffer the perpetual abuse that residents of Jordan have endured:
Latino gangsters firebombed them out of their units.

Schools near these complexes boast 70% dropout rates, violence-related
lockdowns and children with post-traumatic stress disorder levels as
high as those seen in civil wars. The neighborhoods host hundreds of
prison-brutalized men wed to cults of destruction and the
hyper-masculinity of the powerless. Ex-cons who try to change must
defy a dehumanizing dragnet that draws 70% of them back into prison.
All face relentless search-and-destroy policing. With job prospects
virtually nonexistent and few other exit ramps from the prison-parole
hamster wheel, escape is rare.

Years ago I asked gang members what happened to kids who "just said
no" to the Bloods or V-18s. They brought me a videotape other gang
members had made for a 14-year-old boy who had refused to join them.
The tape showed gang members raping his 13-year-old sister. The boy
joined the gang so that its members wouldn't return to kill her.

Is there no one in this city to protect these children? A city that
leaves its children to predators is on the road to Mogadishu.

But what is to be done? Though violence and gangs pose a terrible
menace to residents and cops, it is deadly error to confuse them with
the root cause. They are merely the toxic byproducts of malignant
poverty and deprivation that we apparently do not have the will to
end.

Until recently, our leaders either ignored this uglier L.A. - the City
Council, for example, focused last year not on Jordan or Ramona but on
forcing the LAPD to waste time responding to thousands of false home
alarms in middle-class neighborhoods - or enacted small and isolated
test programs. That's the equivalent of flossing when a root canal is
needed instead.

Lately, a few L.A. leaders appear to have recognized that smarter
solutions are way overdue. Councilman Martin Ludlow has proposed an
urban affairs department to coordinate and elevate the city's
scattershot programs into more sophisticated and aggressive gang
intervention strategies. Bratton and county Sheriff Lee Baca are
calling for more cops - but they also agree that cops must switch to
problem-solving policing, and they champion restoration of the $1
billion a year in prevention funds lost since Proposition 13 passed in
1978. Equally critical, Rob Reiner led voters to back universal
preschool, and all-day kindergarten is now on the drawing board.

On a more controversial track, City Atty. Rocky Delgadillo has stepped
up the use of collective neighborhood strategies like injunctions and
mass evictions. Last week, a judge ordered the eviction of all the
tenants from a complex that gang members had used as a headquarters
for 20 years.

Though eviction of the innocent is rarely defensible, the instinct to
check virulent violence with vigorous remedies is right. Eviction, if
it is done, must be a last resort, and it must include full
compensation, including money for relocation to an available apartment
in the same neighborhood for all evictees.

But these smarter strategies, however welcome, will not be enough.
L.A.'s danger zones require radical vision, scaled-up remedies,
sustained and strategic investment, and a level of leadership and will
that currently do not exist. In the end, remedies that attack symptoms
but leave root causes intact do nothing but create future blowback.

We must build a city where gangs can't get near a single kid under 16
and where any gang member who wants out can exit la vida loca - and
live. Then let's get really radical and actually end the malignant
poverty that drives the violent dysfunction. Choose this road or join
Rio's trajectory toward Mogadishu.

[Nekro]

Poverty and crime, what else is new?

[villain]

They should do a trading spaces episode with south LA and Hollyweird.

[fatalist]

:crying:

[dojafx]

Originally posted by Carl Winslow.@Dec 24 2004, 01:28 AM
in the LAPD's South Bureau there was
an 80% increase in sniper fire on police in 2004, according to a
report by LAPD Chief William Bratton.
Quoted post

what was the sniper fire on police in 2003?

[villain]

Yeah that's pretty high.... 80% what the fuck.
And the leading cause of death for ten year olds in brazil is murder? wtf again.
i don't understand it.... the richest nation in the world and we have the 3rd world within the first world.
People need alternatives.
Speaking of alternatives... what is the viability of establishing an alternative economy within the United States. I know this has been done on a smaller scale.
I'm talking like networking manufacturers, distributors, and a consumer base that operates outside of the economy. Know what I'm saying? I'm talking about responsible businesses of concerned citizens.... Cause it's like throwing fuel on the fire with so many of the little things we do and take for granted every day. Money talks.

[High Priest]

I live in Los Angeles, and aside from Skid Row i cant really recall ever being in any area's that touch on thrid world .. what area's of Los Angeles are they refereing to? South And East?

[Ckit]

^^i agree. only a few places in LA are as bad as they make it seem.

[Carl Winslow.]

Originally posted by High Priest@Dec 24 2004, 02:11 PM
I live in Los Angeles, and aside from Skid Row i cant really recall ever being in any area's that touch on thrid world .. what area's of Los Angeles are they refereing to? South And East?
Quoted post


Skid Row is bad. Matter of fact I was driving through there this afternoon after stopping in Little Tokyo. But Skid Row is not gang territory. Just homeless people, crackheads, and dope peddlers. They're mainly talking about the South East section of L.A. -- that includes parts of Compton, parts of Watts, and parts of southeast South Central L.A.... that whole general southeast sectionl. There are some areas where it seems like law, order, and hope has all but broken down. I agree the majority of L.A. is civilized and bustling -- but there are some areas where you simply would have no interest in going. I live way on the northwest side just east of Beverly Hills and just south of Hollywood. Nice area. But I did originally grow up in South Central L.A. near 56th and Crenshaw and did get a taste of it. But that's west South Central. The further east and further south you go, the worser the neighborhoods get. The further north and further west you go, the nicer. I just noticed that pattern. Peace.

[metallix]

this is an excellent development. let them fester in their own shit holes.

[High Priest]

Originally posted by Carl Winslow.+Dec 25 2004, 07:47 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Carl Winslow. - Dec 25 2004, 07:47 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-High Priest@Dec 24 2004, 02:11 PM
I live in Los Angeles, and aside from Skid Row i cant really recall ever being in any area's that touch on thrid world .. what area's of Los Angeles are they refereing to? South And East?
Quoted post


Skid Row is bad. Matter of fact I was driving through there this afternoon after stopping in Little Tokyo. But Skid Row is not gang territory. Just homeless people, crackheads, and dope peddlers. They're mainly talking about the South East section of L.A. -- that includes parts of Compton, parts of Watts, and parts of southeast South Central L.A.... that whole general southeast sectionl. There are some areas where it seems like law, order, and hope has all but broken down. I agree the majority of L.A. is civilized and bustling -- but there are some areas where you simply would have no interest in going. I live way on the northwest side just east of Beverly Hills and just south of Hollywood. Nice area. But I did originally grow up in South Central L.A. near 56th and Crenshaw and did get a taste of it. But that's west South Central. The further east and further south you go, the worser the neighborhoods get. The further north and further west you go, the nicer. I just noticed that pattern. Peace.
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]

I think, at least for the most part that L.A. itself really is a city based on misconceptions - The majority of ghetto's here fall far from being anything of an actual ghetto, and more or less are just area's of low financial income - but the real poverty stricken area's seem to be few and far between. I do agree that some area's certaintly do give me a general feeling of discomfort and worry when im alone in there during certain hour's of the day (Part's of Inglewood and Crenshaw mostly) - but over all i feel pretty safe in most area's - infact ive had more trouble with dealing with local's on the westside and heading into the valley (where its mostly been skinhead's) then i have in area's such as Watt's and East L.A. (Keep in mind im a skinny white kid with hair past his shoulder's, so im not very intimidating either) - granted i never have much reason to go further then Arroyo or stray too far from Figueroah.
I do get what your saying tho, but living on the westside right near the beach i hardly have to deal with the problem you mentioned (which im happy about), although considering the way thingds are handled in this city i wont be suprised if i eventually i will have to.

[seeking]

usually i have answers for everything, but this is a subject ive always been pretty stumped on.
what goes on in areas like this are definitely symptomatic of a larger problem, but there comes a point where the symptoms themselves are sometimes worse than the problem was, and make it impossible to fix without radical measures (that most people are too removed and pompous to be willing to accept). when you have kids raping 13 year old girls just so someone joins your gang...thats not really the kind of thing that you can 'reform' out of someone i dont think. people like that need more than an after school program and midnight basketball.

i hate to be a dick, but when we find one cow that has madcow disease, we'll kill 200,000 of them 'just to be sure'. i can't really say i value human life any more than animal life, so as far as i'm concerned....you do the math.


seeks/yes, i'd feel the same way if they were white

[!@#$%]

Originally posted by Carl Winslow.@Dec 23 2004, 09:28 PM
We must build a city where gangs can't get near a single kid under 16
and where any gang member who wants out can exit la vida loca - and
live. Then let's get really radical and actually end the malignant
poverty that drives the violent dysfunction.
Quoted post


this woman doesn't have any answers either.
build what, a new city?
most cities in the u.s. have a severe crime problem in some area, almost inexorably coupled with a poverty problem.
when our government is spending billions on a war, and our people reelect the government, i have little hope for the rebuilding of our inner cities.
survival is the most important thing in life, and no one living in that kind of kill or be killed environment is going to forget it.

i don't have any answers either.
i know that hundreds of years of slavery carries a masive karmic debt.

[seeking]

Originally posted by symbols@Dec 27 2004, 11:42 AM
survival is the most important thing in life, and no one living in that kind of kill or be killed environment is going to forget it.
Quoted post


what if we got them all puppies?
it works for old people and children with lukemia.

[!@#$%]

shit man, you are so on point.

[<KEY3>]

How about....

Get the damn liquor stores off every corner.
Stop selling guns at gas stations for cut-throat prices.
Pay teachers what they are worth.

what kills me is that so many americans think that
tax breaks for the rich will encourage commerce but
tax breaks for the poor will only make them lazy.

[seeking]

when rich people get tax breaks they buy stocks, which makes them richer. when poor people get tax breaks they buy tv's, rims, burberry, and pre-paid cell phones.

it's going to take a lot more than removing the liquor stores and gun shops. that stuff is symptomatic as well.
the really difficult part is that at this point, you have a generation of adults who for the most part, are ignorant as fuck. it's not their fault, but it's the truth. so the real problem is how do you teach children to be something and someone that is completely opposit of everything and everyone they know? how do you 'teach' the adults to set good examples?
we've got a whole generation of people, white and black, running around acting like they're still 17, meanwhile they've got 17 year old kids themselves.

i hate problems that i cant fix, but i hate problems that i cant even try to fix, even more.

[<KEY3>]

I hear the term 'adulessent' which is an adult that still lives like a teenager.

[!@#$%]

do they care?
why should they?

in a place where life has no value, what is the point of trying to live a decent life?
until there is something better than the life they are leading, and they don't have to struggle to get it, things are going to remain as they are.

there is no such thing as "homeland security"
poor people are insecure because they are impoverished, which makes some of them dangerous.
the disparity of wealth between rich and poor makes the rich a target and a constant symbol of possibilities and opportunities not available to the underclass.
institutional racism and the "justice" system are practically designed to keep the poor in their place.

http://www.irishjacks.com/bindibasket3.jpg

[seeking]

i dont know what you're talking about with all this racism shit. we freed the slaves like 100 years ago.

just wook at those widdle puppies. do they wook wike the pwaduct of a wacist so society?! no way! cuddle fest 2005!!

[villain]

The infrastructure and institution of sanctuary and reform is already there. It's a matter of revitalizing the churches. These were powerful instruments of positive social reform in the past and can be so again.... And not just with monetary help either.... there is an entirely new sick, pervasive ideology that needs to be abolished as well. This self destructive, self obsessed consumer capitalism, which is diverting all of this revolutionary energy back onto the opressed rather than extending it outward to the oppressors. A clever diversion it is, by creating the illusion of reparation and reform (well look so and so can make it so things must be fixed) when in fact it is only an illusion because problems still exist, albiet not so overt and direct. Evil was not defeated in ww2, it was not reformed out of existence in the 60's... it moved underground, and it is high time that is more widely acknowledged .... that in itself, acknowledgement of the true problem could very well provide the impetus for real reform.

[!@#$%]

i hear where you are coming from, but when a community is afraid to leave their homes, much less go to church, i think it goes a lot deeper than looking to a community gathering and a positive role model.

society has literally broken down in communities like that.
the church cannot help a 14 year old boy protect his sister from rape and a gang that will execute them if they talk about it.

http://www.madpuppy.net/m5.JPG

[<KEY3>]

you have to wonder if that 14 year old boy will hold a grudge
and eventually kill the hoods above him or if he will loose the
hurt and let it slide. Stolkholm Symdrome style.

http://www.architimmy.net/weblog/archives/puppies.jpg

[villain]

It could end like how the "bad boy" era in detroit did... eventually all the most hardcore gangsters just killed each other off...
these are not self sustaining conditions. we could try to prevent the event horizon but eventually it has to end... somehow... better the easier way than the hard way i say.

[!@#$%]

problem is, in detroit crime is skyrocketing.
there were 402 murders and 708 reported rapes in 2003

2nd most dangerous city in america 2004

yes, eventually things change.
the question is, do they change for the better or worse?
people are kidding themselves if they think it can't get worse.
that why the woman who wrote the article cited rio as the next step on the path to mogadishu.

[villain]

well so much for the regentrification of detroit.... ha.
ok so how about we arm the churches... :/ holy warriors?

[villain]

perhaps we are dwelling too much on the negative. there are plenty of positive examples of reform.
like saaay.... nicaragua.... or egypt....
sierra leone WAS doing okay.
hmm....
let's look at it this way... MOST people don't want to live that way. People need alternatives... people need protection other than the whims of armed thugs.
I think a major problem is that the powers that be have no real interest in reform. as long as it doesn't cross over into their communities etc. as if police forces are just the paid body guards for the rich.
we probably need government and law enforcement reform before we can see real change in the communities...

[seeking]

thats funny, i was in the city every day last year, and i didnt get killed once.
weird.

the YBI days were next level shit. nothing like that could have been sustained at the time because it was so new, there was no culture or precident. now a days its the children of those people who are running the streets though. not to say that it's the exact same people, but it's that generation. i know that my desensitization will be passed on to my kids, it would be impossible not to.
i dont know. this is a crappy stuation. saving people from themselves is just about the most frustrating endeaver in the world. so much so that it almost instantly makes me want to give up.


no set tripping here. black and latino dogs all in the same basket.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/roslinridge/images/gallery/German-Shepherd-puppies.jpg

[seeking]

you cant compare third world countries to third world conditions in america, because they're nothing alike. it's like saying someone in cuba only makes $3,000 a year. that might be true, but they still have all of their needs met and a social structure that's undoubtedly stronger than ours.

look at rwanda. a million people are murdered by their next door neighboors, and instead of perpetuating the hate, they just chose to forget about it and move on. same with cambodia. obviously no ones singing coom-by-ah in either country, but nothing like that would EVER happen here. from what i've seen, ignorance in america is far worse than ignorance in other countries. i dont care how bad you have it here, there are positive role models and there are ways out of the cycle. it might be a hell of an uphill struggle, but its possible. shit like that isnt possible in the sudan.

blah. i might as well not talk, cause i still have no answers and it bums me out.

mams/beer.

[villain]

I've got this book called graffito and it talks about how graffiti was the only 1 of the 4 elements to unite people of all races. It also helps keep people out of gangs.
graffiti therapy.

[Herbivore]

the only solution is that everyone dies except those whose first and last names i know.

[seeking]

god, why didnt i think of it before?! HIP-HOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!
villian, you're a genius!
we'll have a rap battle with the fat kids from the camp across the lake!
fuck yeah, this is gonna solve everything!

seeks/rappity, rap, rap, rap.

[!@#$%]

sorry people, graffiti and hip-hop corrupted me, i can't get on board wit hthis idea.

i still think the puppies will change the world.

http://www.inkypaw.com/avvalpupcouple.jpg

[villain]

Yes seeks.... battle rap will dissipate all unnecessary anger and vent frustration. Yay for positive outlets.

well sorry to hear that graffiti and hip hop were not your saving grace.... symbols
but you have a point... puppies are adorable!

http://www.enk.net/images/Carnival%20Puppies.JPG

my goodness puppies are so cute! this would melt the heart of any hardened criminal!

[<KEY3>]

well.... some people say that 'hiphop' helped ease
the gang shit that was happening in new york during the 70's.
Any activity that gets kids involved with somethign that isn't
banging is a good thing.

< the last boy scout >

[MIZZaBcfly]

it upsets me when people label countries as Third world :(

[<KEY3>]

just FYI....

the term 'third world' mean simply that it's not a western democracy or a commuinist state.
The 'first world' was the west, then the reds, then the countries not aligned to either of those governments.
It's really an outdated term. Now it's 'developping nations'

[perhap]

key....well, to get on the guns subject, i caught the last part of a story on everyone in bay area or soemthing west coast will be given 90 days to turn in guns. so...whats new. That would be near impossible to do. 2 million gun owners in us.

[perhap]

oh...and there was something like this in milwaukee a couple years ago, somewhat. Some guy was walking down street, kids said something and he was like shut up. These kids chased him down and stamped him with a shovel or something, bloody mess all over someones house. Media was calling it little mogadishu or something.

[seeking]

villian,
sorry homie, but those 'puppies' look like little mutant mole people. very spooky.

[MIZZaBcfly]

Originally posted by <KEY3>@Dec 29 2004, 08:26 PM
incense?
Quoted post


well there was a spider in the bath last week

[villain]

Originally posted by seeking@Dec 30 2004, 12:19 PM
villian,
sorry homie, but those 'puppies' look like little mutant mole people. very spooky.
Quoted post


Haha.... I kinda thought so too but I liked the overall layout of the picture. Hey, mutant mole people need love too!

"Africans in america don't believe they're still in chains. People in amerikkka don't believe the devils still the same." NMS

[Nekro]

Originally posted by seeking@Dec 30 2004, 12:19 PM
villian,
sorry homie, but those 'puppies' look like little mutant mole people. very spooky.
Quoted post

The man has a strong point.

Poverty is one of those problems for which, as Robert MacNamara put it, there is no immediate and obvious solution.

[villain]

Is quoting macnamara really appropriate here nekro? come on now.

[Nekro]

Maybe it isn't, but I like his phrasing and felt like attributing.

[ODS-1]

Originally posted by Nekro+Dec 30 2004, 07:54 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nekro - Dec 30 2004, 07:54 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-seeking@Dec 30 2004, 12:19 PM
villian,
sorry homie, but those 'puppies' look like little mutant mole people. very spooky.
Quoted post

The man has a strong point.

Poverty is one of those problems for which, as Robert MacNamara put it, there is no immediate and obvious solution.
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]
MacNamara was a fucking murderer.

[villain]

Yeah, and after a career of mass murder in Vietnam he went on to head the World Bank of all things.
Inappropriate may be an understatement.

[velocet]

Good thread..

There is of course, no immediate solution to the problem. Unless of course you kill them all (like seeking said). Even with a huge reformation program under new leadership (but when is that going to happen?), to eradicate gangs... Through social reform and whatnot, would take years and years. I don't see any social reform coming anytime soon in America. Our culture is too ingrained

THe disparity between the 'upper' and 'lower' classes is huge when you look at the educational/health benefits offered to the lower class. Education itself is a huge problem (and I understand it lost a lot of fudning too on account of Bush), and is a major key to stunting the growth of kids int he inner city. The schools are just plain awful (in most cases). Here's a nice short article on How tax breaks masquerade as school reformhttp://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2001-06-04-nceditf.htm

But i'm diverging I suppose.. but fucked up or not, these things are always interesting to read. The American middle/upper class are making bounds and leaps, property value in good areas is outstanding, consumerism is rolling, and you really do get your bang for your buck, whether its with huge amounts of food (ever notice how fucking giant USA's supermarkets are compared to other parts of the world? Wait, you ever notice how EVERYTHING in america is supersized??), clothes, etc.. anything you need. America has got it, and for a good price.

the gap between the rich and poor is ever widening, one of the tell-tale signs of a 'third world nation'.

[velocet]

*HEY! it wont let me edit, so disregard my prvious post and read thsi one instead!!!!

Good thread..

There is of course, no immediate solution to the problem. Unless of course you kill them all (like seeking said). Even with a huge reformation program under new leadership (but when is that going to happen?), to eradicate gangs... Through social reform and whatnot, would take years and years. I don't see any social reform coming anytime soon in America. Our culture is too ingrained with the idea that things are fucking 100% awesome here, and there are no problems, and there's no more racism, and everything is equal, and everyone is makign great headway into the new age of comfort and convinience.

THe disparity between the 'upper' and 'lower' classes is huge when you look at the educational/health benefits offered to the lower class. Education itself is a huge problem (and I understand it lost a lot of fudning too on account of Bush), and is a major key to stunting the growth of kids int he inner city. The schools are just plain awful (in most cases). Here's a nice short article on How tax breaks masquerade as school reformhttp://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2001-06-04-nceditf.htm

But i'm diverging I suppose.. but fucked up or not, these things are always interesting to read. The American middle/upper class are making bounds and leaps, property value in good areas is outstanding, consumerism is rolling, and you really do get your bang for your buck, whether its with huge amounts of food (ever notice how fucking giant USA's supermarkets are compared to other parts of the world? Wait, you ever notice how EVERYTHING in america is supersized??), clothes, etc.. anything you need. America has got it, and for a good price.

the gap between the rich and poor is ever widening, one of the tell-tale signs of a 'third world nation'. But it never will happen, the upper class is too sophisticated to let people catch wind of the bullshit under the carpet. Everyone knows there's fucked up areas in every city, but no one really stops and thinks to themselves (while they're sitting at home watching sitcoms or eating burgers) that while they're sitting comfy, some 13 year old girl is getting gang raped in the hood and her brother, who is just a fucking kid, has to join a gang to prevent her from getting killed.

There's a curse, and its called cognitive dissonance.. And it is rampant everywhere, and i suppose it always has.

cognitive dissonance is a pyschological term i suppose, now becoming sort of a 'hot phrase' to describe the postmodern man or woman.

[ODS-1]

Originally posted by seeking@Dec 27 2004, 11:32 AM
usually i have answers for everything, but this is a subject ive always been pretty stumped on.
what goes on in areas like this are definitely symptomatic of a larger problem, but there comes a point where the symptoms themselves are sometimes worse than the problem was, and make it impossible to fix without radical measures (that most people are too removed and pompous to be willing to accept). when you have kids raping 13 year old girls just so someone joins your gang...thats not really the kind of thing that you can 'reform' out of someone i dont think. people like that need more than an after school program and midnight basketball.

i hate to be a dick, but when we find one cow that has madcow disease, we'll kill 200,000 of them 'just to be sure'. i can't really say i value human life any more than animal life, so as far as i'm concerned....you do the math.


seeks/yes, i'd feel the same way if they were white
Quoted post
Since most people in these areas are people of color and immigrants, why don't we stop being so racist and xenophobic and give them a fucking chance. I mean, mass genocide against Los Angeles, I don't fucking think so. Seeking your attitude is right along side something that Hitler or Stalin would have said, which doesn't really surprise me. How about getting all of these druggies some help instead of throwing them in a cell for 60 years? It costs more to incarcerate someone for life than it does to rehabilitate them.


But bottom line, no matter how horrible it is, human beings will kill eachother. It's human nature. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it happens sometimes. Although I'm not condoning it.

[Carl Winslow.]

Originally posted by Nekro+Dec 30 2004, 05:54 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nekro - Dec 30 2004, 05:54 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-seeking@Dec 30 2004, 12:19 PM
villian,
sorry homie, but those 'puppies' look like little mutant mole people. very spooky.
Quoted post

The man has a strong point.

Poverty is one of those problems for which, as Robert MacNamara put it, there is no immediate and obvious solution.
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]

A certain level of poverty and an underclass is necessary for a capitalist society to function.

[villain]

Unemployment for blacks in New York city is 50%. Fucked up.

Oh I forgot to mention that this is the same percentage of palestinians unemployed under Isreali occupation.
This stinks to high heaven of conspiracy.
People need to go to hell already.

[dojafx]

check out the pine ridge indian reservation in south dakota
70% unemployment
some nasty shit dog

[Nekro]

It's not a conspiracy, it's worse. If it was a conspiracy we could fix it easily. It's not, which means it's going to take serious reform to make a more just economic reality.

[dojafx]

so Mr. Winslow, what do you propose be done about these mini mogadishus?