'Concept' Writers

[-Unztopbl750-]

OK then. What I mean by 'Concpt writers' are those who deal with a deeper theme, one that unites all their pieces, tag names etc. What comes first, eye candy or brain food ( ;) )?
Are these artists highbrow or lowbrow, or just plkain fucking pretentious?

Be clear I do not mean so called'Graffiti' writers who use art school training and one watch of wildstyle to appropriate an entire culture and do pieces on canvas to display in galleries (see McKenzie Galleries in St andrews for some truly shocking examples, not that any of you will live anywhere near sta's) I do in fact mean thoses who use grafitti as an expressive tool to convey serious points of view

Tell me if ive babbled a whole load of shit, i find it difficult to tell sometimes

[Carla Bruni]

I already see graffiti as a "concept" in itself so writers that involve another layer of meaning in the act of writing kind of run the risk to overload their shit you know

[Carla Bruni]

i really like espo's stuff, and KR selling KRink is a good concept

[-Unztopbl750-]

KRink is definitely clever, but I think it kind of defeats the point. Graffitti by its nature is meant to be sorta freeform, and selling people your custom ink is (in my opinion) just like licensing people to use your style. Better to tell people how to make the shit, and let them individualise it

[Al Green]

this is very art school discourse.

[POIESIS]

[/fart]

[I.C.Shadow]

Originally posted by Al Green@Apr 8 2005, 03:55 AM
this is very art school discourse.
Quoted post


aye I agree, I think most of the conversations in class are pretentious and overly complex. If you want to break something down post some examples maybe to help out the discussion. :clown2:

[seeking]

Originally posted by -Unztopbl750-@Apr 7 2005, 04:35 PM
KRink is definitely clever, but I think it kind of defeats the point. Graffitti by its nature is meant to be sorta freeform, and selling people your custom ink is (in my opinion) just like licensing people to use your style. Better to tell people how to make the shit, and let them individualise it
Quoted post


how long you been writing? how much money do your parents deposit in your bank account every month?
writing is about getting up and getting over. 'krink' has made KR one of the most famous writers of the last decade, that wouldn't have happened if he gave shit away for free.

writers that have some obvious philosophical theme tying all their work together are one dimmensional and boring...or atleast in every scenario i can imagine they are.

[-Unztopbl750-]

how much money do your parents deposit in your bank account every month?

Hahaha you obviously have no fucking clue about my parents.

That post was full of shit, and i thought about removing it, but dont say shit like that

[-Unztopbl750-]

The point that I was TRYING to make was just that I think describing KRink as a 'concept' totally misses the point of what I meant (no offence)

I am actually talking about a group of people I know who don't really consider themselves 'writers' but more traditional artists, but they paint on walls. They (3 of them) do stuff together, kinda surrealist type stuff, usually with no written content.

To start talking about graffiti was just confusing

[MAGS156]

allong the lines of NEWA ? billboards and shit

[MAGS156]

with a message

[-Unztopbl750-]

don't know NEWA, see above post

[-Unztopbl750-]

justo be crystal clear: I have no problem with KR or KRink

Its just not what I was talking about

[seeking]

so basically you're talking about art fag bullshit, not graffiti, right?
ok, good. i can go back to not paying any attention then.

[sillysiphilis]

ouch

[SPORTO]

Hows this this for a fuck'n concept?

Now this cat knows what hes all about.

[POIESIS]

Originally posted by seeking@Apr 8 2005, 05:58 AM
writers that have some obvious philosophical theme tying all their work together are one dimmensional and boring...
Quoted post


seeking...one dimensional and boring..maybe true, and i prefer to take it case by case,
but really you just summed up your average writer, wouldn't you say?
furthermore, 'art fag bullshit'?? hahaha, i suppose this depends on what exactly
you define as artfag shit...
anything different is okay in my books, and personally, any shit that
gives a big fuck you to the so called 'unspoken rules' of graffiti(with
the exception of disrespecting others) and what most writers deem as 'dope' stands out
way more to me than your regular ass writer...

[POIESIS]

that cookies shit is fresh.

[seeking]

Originally posted by POIESIS+Apr 8 2005, 10:47 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (POIESIS - Apr 8 2005, 10:47 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-seeking@Apr 8 2005, 05:58 AM
writers that have some obvious philosophical theme tying all their work together are one dimmensional and boring...
Quoted post


seeking...one dimensional and boring..maybe true, and i prefer to take it case by case,
but really you just summed up your average writer, wouldn't you say?
furthermore, 'art fag bullshit'?? hahaha, i suppose this depends on what exactly
you define as artfag shit...
anything different is okay in my books, and personally, any shit that
gives a big fuck you to the so called 'unspoken rules' of graffiti(with
the exception of disrespecting others) and what most writers deem as 'dope' stands out
way more to me than your regular ass writer...
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]

no, your average writer has one purpose; to get up, and hopefully to do it with his (or her) own brand of style. that's not really a 'philosophical theme'. a nascar driver aims to drive faster than the other cars, a basketball player wants to score more baskets, etc. now i'll be the first to admit that there is a certain sort of 'zen' amidst the 'art' of writing, but it's a personal thing that comes about as a secondary result of dedication, not of the intial act itself. for instance, graff has taught/forced me to dedicate myself ceaslessly to something that defies logic. i do it for the same reason someone practices martial arts, for the experience and to see how hard i can push myself. now obviously theres all sorts of philosophical shit at play there, but to the outside world, it just looks like graffiti. im not trying to convey some 'message'. im not trying to 'rip the system' or free mumia. the way the guy described it, it seemed to me that was what he was hinting at; somebody that is trying to push a specified agenda. to me, that generally gets real old, real quick, because its so limited. whatever you do has to convey that message, and if it doesnt convey the message, it ceases to be what it was intended to be. i know that probably sounds ridiculous, because all graff is pushing an agenda, and is inherently limited i guess, but from my perspective, its completely different if your sole intention is to get up. for instance, you coould easily say someone like SI or JA is formulaic and boring because they do the exact same shit every time, but since that's the goal, IMO, it never gets old. does that make any sense? im not trying to argue my position btw, just trying to clarify. all of this is just my opinion, nothing more.

as for the second part of your statement, i completely disagree. i value the 'unspoken rules' of graffiti, because to me, they're no different than the 'code of honor' that every 'underground' organization/scene goes by, and once you erase them, you erase the artform itself. which isnt to say that those rules dont change or adapt with time, but there are certain things that will never go out of style, and that cant be changed. good letters, heart, respect, dedication, etc. all of those things are of the utmost importance to me. if a writer lacks them, in most situations, he's not a writer IMO, he's something else, and i'm not concerned with anything else.

there is a difference between coming up in the system then expanding outside the confines and coming up outside the system but standing close enough that from a distance, you look to play the part. all the guys in Transcend are a perfect example. many of them have very unique 'non traditional' styles, but at the same time, every single one of them can burn you with any style you want from them. they learned how to play by the rules in order to break them. make sense?

i dont care if anyone agrees with me, just as long as they understand where i'm coming from.

[porque]

...graffiti is not art...it never will be...it's just fuckin graffiti...


...that statement may piss some of you off, but it's true...one of the things i was trying to get across in the other thread is the huge difference between underground arts and Art...i have no idea what kind of 'concept' graffiti you're talking about, but if you're referring to people painting murals, than it's not graffiti, it's a mural...murals then relate to the history of mural painting, not graffit, wether they used spray paint or not...

...i'm kinda drunk...i'll finish my thoughts later...

[IzacFour]

Why couldnt anyone just understand the concept and then discuss it? Instead of arguing our own definitions for the word 'graffiti'.


Conceptual writers, the idea is fairly new, possibly as old as the internet. (The most powerfull medium in the graffiti world, where as before it would have been magazines or video) The internet romanticizes certain aspects of graffiti and hides others. For instance, drugs are often culturally alied with graffiti, (at least where I live) tag banging etc. I had no idea that graffiti was as violent as it is when I first began, this was generally because I was wet behind the ears and had spent my time watching wildstyle and reading graffiti.org and not spending time outside with real writers.

Now writers come from different cultural backrounds aswell. Some in less urban enviroments, writers of different types will come out of different backrounds.

On the art school matter. It only seems natural if you had been writing all through high school, to choose a career in the area that you have the most interest in. Graphic design and Art still interact with graffiti, they have been since writers had blackbooks.

It seems to me that graffiti has a natural tendency to lend it self to more thought. Even if a writer has developed some sort of philosophy on writing itself which justifys it further than being just a cultural phenomenon. A way to get 'ups'. (Ups are important, still)

Yes, I like conceptual graffiti. You cant have two polar opposites existing; all style, no substance (graffiti) all substance. no style (art)

[SPORTO]

The 'Style' is the 'Substance'
The 'Act' is the 'Art'





See attched pic from

'VFR'
We Kill Shit




Now hurry along, your art, humanities, social studies, philosophy, yada yada yada bullshit lecture starts in 10 mins.

Don’t worry you will still be ignorant about the graffiti culture as when you went in.

[-Unztopbl750-]

The 'Style' is the 'Substance'
The 'Act' is the 'Art'

I would definitely agree as far as most writers ar concerned.

the act of bombing or tagging or whatever has a quality of 'fuck you',and more than that graffiti is also a way to define yourself (kinda similar to battle rhyming- trying to find a similar example of what i mean by this)- the skill of the individual writer is usually what defines the piece

But im talking about trying to seperate skill from the statement. The guy that said this is pushing a specific agenda eg free mumia: this could be, but not necesarily. To have a subject for a piece is not such a crazy idea eg memorial graffiti, or yes, political graff. I just mean using the 'act' to convey something: this could change from piece to piece, but after all writers use words, and words mean things

whatever you do has to convey that message, and if it doesnt convey the message, it ceases to be what it was intended to be.

That would be graffiti where the writer has started with an idea (political or whatever) and tried to work a piece around it. And yes that gets quite tired quite quickly because it is inherently formulaic. But to start with the graffiti and use it to express an idea, much as that might seem like the same thing, is in my eyes totally different. Tht can be fresh, interesting, and appeal to the reader on two levels- graffiti that makes you think. More than that, I don't see why doing this kind of graffiti prevents you from getting up. So long as it executed with skill and people respect it as graff, then why is it different to any other peice? to describe that as "artfag bullshit" is just narrow minded. I don't necesarily love this kind of graff, but I think it is an interesting direction to push

PS who the fuck are you to tell me I don't understand graffiti? Ive been writing since I was 10, and I understand the concept of getting up perfectly (and yes it is a concept)

[IzacFour]

Originally posted by SPORTO@Apr 10 2005, 02:09 AM
The 'Style' is the 'Substance'
The 'Act' is the 'Art'

Quoted post



"It seems to me that graffiti has a natural tendency to lend it self to more thought. Even if a writer has developed some sort of philosophy on writing itself which justifys it further than being just a cultural phenomenon."


Dorks.

[dead]

so far, I havent seen shit. Post a photo, Let us know exactly what you are talking about. At least give a clue.

[IzacFour]

Espo
Twist
Kr
Murda
Most of the transcend guys.

In my mind are all conceptual writers.

[seeking]

i think you're misunderstanding the meaning of 'conceptual'.

[s.urkaleeno]

is your statement (concept) "to make a statement" or is your statement expressing the futilaty of making a statement? :haha:

either way the more time spent talking is time that could be used for painting.

[colt45oe800]

This thread is a joke,
all this nonsensical crapola about art
and cocepts, who the fuck cares.
So take the photos as you will
http://keepitlarge.com/albums/kept/aph.jpg

http://img150.echo.cx/img150/2739/kept8ff.jpg

http://keepitlarge.com/albums/kept/aop.jpg

http://keepitlarge.com/albums/kept/afr.jpg

[geist]

Originally posted by porque@Apr 9 2005, 02:58 AM
...graffiti is not art...it never will be...it's just fuckin graffiti...


...that statement may piss some of you off, but it's true...one of the things i was trying to get across in the other thread is the huge difference between underground arts and Art...i have no idea what kind of 'concept' graffiti you're talking about, but if you're referring to people painting murals, than it's not graffiti, it's a mural...murals then relate to the history of mural painting, not graffit, wether they used spray paint or not...

...i'm kinda drunk...i'll finish my thoughts later...
Quoted post

You dumbass :haha: :haha: :haha:

Maybe TAGS aren't art, but come the fuck on man, Graff is art - street art.

[seeking]

no, porque is right, sorry.

the fact that you'd seperate tags from the rest of writing just further proves you have no clue what you're talking about.

you should apologize for calling him a dumbass.

[IzacFour]

Originally posted by seeking@Apr 14 2005, 12:01 AM
no, porque is right, sorry.

the fact that you'd seperate tags from the rest of writing just further proves you have no clue what you're talking about.

you should apologize for calling him a dumbass.
Quoted post




Good call. Tags are very important.

[EViLPRiCK]

Don't get me wrong I love everything about looking at graffiti, but sometimes I feel like everythings been done already.. except for when it comes to tags and characters. tags just have so much aggression, so much style, and so much individuality behind them.

[8onus]

this thread is flat, while some of the styles may be quite complex, the actual "concept" of graffiti is a lot simpler than some cats want it to be, you are putting your name on a wall, THAT is the fucking idea here, if a writer puts some deep meaning behind a peice then all the power to them, but it is still someone's name on a wall, and they are still on the same boat as the dude who does tags and fillins every night.

[SPORTO]

....

[SPORTO]

..

[bodice_ripper]

I haven't read any particularly good argument for graffiti not being art on here. I know sometimes I'd like to think writing has nothing in common with art, but when I take step back and look at the bigger picture, not just the gallery bound post-post modern bullshit that is currently IT in art, I feel differently. I think writing is a folk art, with a focus on traditions, skills and productivity, rather than concept.

I'm not certain why writers seem so eager to believe that graffiti exists in a bubble, untouched by outside influences and unlike anything else on earth.......

[fermentor666]

Originally posted by bodice_ripper@May 2 2005, 09:18 AM
I'm not certain why writers seem so eager to believe that graffiti exists in a bubble, untouched by outside influences and unlike anything else on earth.......
Quoted post




Because it helps to enforce the idea that they are unique individuals creating something that's never been done before.

[mr.yuck]

You're talking about that guy that paints whales all over parking garages across america, arent you?

[HAL]

I hate talking about this shit. Just enjoy graffiti for what it is. Stupid fun. Does it need to be any more complicated than that? It's not exactly an intellectual pursuit.

Some people say my own graffiti is conceptual and abstract, but I'm just doodling and painting for fun, really. It's not going to make me any money, in all likelihood, and I'm certainly not going to be remembered when I'm gone. 99.99999% of kids that paint are never going to make any impact besides maybe their local scene, and certainly not on the art world.

Just enjoy it as a way to experience your life and stop trying to rationalize and dissect it. I get tired and depressed just thinking about that.

[SPORTO]

YO Old G

"I get tired and depressed"

= time 2 get outa the rut

Im's in the ditch 2,

but negative energy (without sound'n like a fuck'n hippie)
depleats your own system...


Nows I think of it, maybes wihy Jasus inVENTed Graffiti

DRUNK

[PINK DOT]

Originally posted by -Unztopbl750-@Apr 7 2005, 04:35 PM
KRink is definitely clever, but I think it kind of defeats the point. Graffitti by its nature is meant to be sorta freeform, and selling people your custom ink is (in my opinion) just like licensing people to use your style. Better to tell people how to make the shit, and let them individualise it
Quoted post


not to tell you your opinion is wrong, but what is "the point". in my eyes graffiti or "getting up" is advertisement. so while KRink could have posters or ads, why not use your own product and show it to those who will use it. get right to the point ya know. with the amount of money one ad in a graffiti magazine would cost, you could have 1000 tags advertising your product for free? think what you want to think. im not stoping you, but your veiws were expresed and im just doing the same.

[wiseguy]

I'm not certain why writers seem so eager to believe that graffiti exists in a bubble, untouched by outside influences and unlike anything else on earth.......
this is a fucking awesome point...

[dumy]

this thread..haha

[perhap]

Originally posted by mr.yuck@May 9 2005, 05:17 PM
You're talking about that guy that paints whales all over parking garages across america, arent you?
Quoted post

i drove past one today.





endless conversation. graffiti is discounted.

[__ __ __ __]

DOPE...
http://img150.echo.cx/img150/2739/kept8ff.jpg

i like how it says "one" in the T's Shadow..