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Originally posted by ERIZENO+Aug 8 2005, 11:23 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ERIZENO - Aug 8 2005, 11:23 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Quote:
Originally posted by bodice_ripper@Aug 8 2005, 11:08 PM <!--QuoteBegin-Dawood
Quote:
@Aug 8 2005, 10:46 PM
I don't want to talk about religion or Islamor Buddhism or which sect Osama Bin Laden belongs to. All I ever intended to talk about in this thread is God and everyone else dragged me into a religion discussion. Religion is secondary, Knowing about God is first.
i agree with bodice .... You want to talk about your views of god. But with an absolute in your set of views it dosent allow for an open free flowing discussion. Your way of viewing God is not very forgiving to others, even removing religion from the mix.
Don't be scared... ha ha, So lets discuss, If you have something to say , just say it. You don't need my approval to post here. Don't blame me for your lack of argument.
"if you don't busy your self with the truth, your self will busy you with the lies" -Ibn Al Qayyum
Since Dawood is asking views ... i will share more of mine instead of whining.
I feel god is energy. the energy that makes up the universe and all things inside it. No devine plan, no dismissing others, it just IS. Just the word God has been bothering me recently, its a concept bigger than that word allows it to be. We as humans alter and slander the concept to fit or justify anything we want to do under "gods plan", all I see when that goes down is a big scapegoat sitting on the couch.
What is a television apparatus to man, who has only to shut his eyes to see the most inaccessible regions of the seen and the never seen, who has only to imagine in order to pierce through walls and cause all the planetary Baghdads of his dreams to rise from the dust.
El Mammero- I agree that nature will regulate no matter what. I think the difference however is that we are consciously destroying our future by our own free will. What meteor is conscious of the effect it is having on the planet it has struck? We are denying that we developed memory in order to learn from our mistakes and ensure the survival of our children. Few times in the history of our earth have we been on the brinks of such a massive paradigm shift. The only other two I can think of is when primeval microorganismmicroorganisms fed on all of the energy rich substances slowly synthesized in the upper atmosphere and forced an evolutionary change that produced photosynthesis, and thus the production of energy from light, or when the dinosaurs were wiped out. But now we can see the change coming, we have the ability to stop it, it is in the nature of all living things to survive, yet we deny it. Perhaps George W. Bush thinks he is the next step in evolution? Either way, I don't think politicians and CEOs and cockroaches should be the sole survivors of a scorched earth. This is where morality comes to loggerheads with existentialism. We decide what is right and wrong. And given the momentum of evolution, right means survival and life.
This is our dilemma. That we are perfectly capable of changing our future. Even in religion this distinction is made, that we stepped outside of the perfection and innocence of Eden, and our obliviousness, and became more godlike in the ability to decide our fate.
"The TSOG stalketh the land and the serfs bow and worship it. It stealeth property, it burneth neighborhoods, it foully killeth all opposition. Ye think it only doth its violence to black people, or Hispanics, or kooks with odd religions, but its hand is at your own throat even now. TSOG fthagn! What--are ye stupid, or something?"
--Abdul Alhazred, The TSOGonomicon
Originally posted by villain@Aug 8 2005, 11:17 PM No harm meant Dawood. I only spoke in that manner because I was under the impression that you started this discussion only to criticize the beliefs of others and proselytize your own faith. I agree that any discussion of God in general is good. We should seek a commonality and not criticize each others differences.
No problem, i'm not here to criticize everybody, I do beleive that a healthy debate is good though. Arguments don't have to be disrespectful and matches of wit all the time. You will probably see me disagreeing with people at times , but that doesnt mean I am trying to degrade them in any manner. I do beleive that a lot of the things we are going through in this world are a punishment for our own misdoings and transgressions, However you want to look at it, Most people beleive that what goes around comes around, And whether you beleive God sent it around or not is another thing. But I truly beleive that people are wronging themselves all over the world and God is punishing them for their own actions...ex. tsunamis,hurricaines,muslides, wars etc. Why havent we woken up yet?
"if you don't busy your self with the truth, your self will busy you with the lies" -Ibn Al Qayyum
Originally posted by ERIZENO@Aug 8 2005, 06:42 PM Since Dawood is asking views ... i will share more of mine instead of whining.
I feel god is energy. the energy that makes up the universe and all things inside it. No devine plan, no dismissing others, it just IS. Just the word God has been bothering me recently, its a concept bigger than that word allows it to be. We as humans alter and slander the concept to fit or justify anything we want to do under "gods plan", all I see when that goes down is a big scapegoat sitting on the couch.
I am in agreement I would say. God just is, in the sense that it is both Good and Evil. As for a divine plan, I don't know for sure, but there is some tantalizing evidence of one. I like this idea of an energy because this could be the discovery in quantum physics that the exclusion principle tries to explain. Neither particle nor wave, but the product of our own expectations. I believe that is the closest to understanding god through science as we have come yet.
And very good point about the concept of God being far to big for the word and the way people throw the word around to suit their purposes.
"The TSOG stalketh the land and the serfs bow and worship it. It stealeth property, it burneth neighborhoods, it foully killeth all opposition. Ye think it only doth its violence to black people, or Hispanics, or kooks with odd religions, but its hand is at your own throat even now. TSOG fthagn! What--are ye stupid, or something?"
--Abdul Alhazred, The TSOGonomicon
Originally posted by ERIZENO@Aug 8 2005, 11:42 PM Since Dawood is asking views ... i will share more of mine instead of whining.
I feel god is energy. the energy that makes up the universe and all things inside it. No devine plan, no dismissing others,*** it just IS. Just the word God has been bothering me recently, its a concept bigger than that word allows it to be. We as humans alter and slander the concept to fit or justify anything we want to do under "gods plan", all I see when that goes down is a big scapegoat sitting on the couch.
I don't really like to use the word God either (probably for different reasons than you) But I use it for lack of a better english term that people will readily understand without having to explain Arabic grammar. I usually ask christians (and this is not a slam on christians, Just a question to spark a thought process) I ask them , Who is God? because God is an english word and Jesus spoke aramaic so what did Jesus call God? They always stare at me blankly and then say something like well, I speak english, So I ask , well then, who changed God's name? and who gave them that authority?
Of course if you don't beleive in scripture this example is irrelevent to you.
Just a thought.
Oh, and explain the scapegoat on the couch statement...that one slipped by me.
"if you don't busy your self with the truth, your self will busy you with the lies" -Ibn Al Qayyum
Originally posted by villain@Aug 8 2005, 06:46 PM This is our dilemma. That we are perfectly capable of changing our future. Even in religion this distinction is made, that we stepped outside of the perfection and innocence of Eden, and our obliviousness, and became more godlike in the ability to decide our fate.
Villain, I am in total agreement with you. All I'm saying is that I feel it's incorrect to label what humans do as "unnatural". Wrong, stupid, shortsighted, yes, but all within the confines of nature. The destruction of the Amazon forest is not all that far removed from what is "natural" than, say, a fungal parasite taking over the only bush in the backyard. To me, the way we are behaving makes perfect sense in the scheme of nature.
Standing back and realizing the wrong we do is an easy thing to do as an individual, and a nearly impossible thing to do as a population.
As a population, we don't look ahead in long terms. We are just as shortsighted as the pack of arctic wolves who killed the whole litter of oxen, or the fungus that killed the only bush available, and thus we behave the same way they do: naturally. The combination of all different sets of shortsighted behaviors is what provides the checks and balances that gives nature its sense of harmony, and platforms for progress to occur. Our possible self-destruction and that of a great deal of the planet can be a jumping point to the next evolutionary age, just as the meteors that killed off the dinosaurs (and unleashed devastation that we can't even come close to rivaling) led to the age of the mammal. In hindsight, whatever sentient being studies us will think it was all a perfectly natural thing that we behaved the way we did, the same way we think meteor impacts are perfectly natural. I'm sure the dinosaurs, if they had the capacity to think like we do, would very much disagree.
Why is it that people are only offended that "Dawood" is trying to stuff his religious views down everyones' throats here, yet he has been doing the same with almost every other post he has made with very little complaints?
And, to add to the actual topic at hand, religion becomes flawed when using man as a intermediary, who is inherently flawed (ie organized religion). This brings along literal interpretations with it, that have resulted in the deaths of countless people and decimation of various native people's cultures in the name of "God." Even today, it's a major recruiting tool for getting people to blow themselves up.
I agree with what alot of people have said on here, God is everything around us. Even doo doo.
Originally posted by Dawood+Aug 9 2005, 12:06 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dawood - Aug 9 2005, 12:06 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-ERIZENO@Aug 8 2005, 11:42 PM Since Dawood is asking views ... i will share more of mine instead of whining.
I feel god is energy. the energy that makes up the universe and all things inside it. No devine plan, no dismissing others,*** it just IS. Just the word God has been bothering me recently, its a concept bigger than that word allows it to be. We as humans alter and slander the concept to fit or justify anything we want to do under "gods plan", all I see when that goes down is a big scapegoat sitting on the couch.
I don't really like to use the word God either (probably for different reasons than you) But I use it for lack of a better english term that people will readily understand without having to explain Arabic grammar. I usually ask christians (and this is not a slam on christians, Just a question to spark a thought process) I ask them , Who is God? because God is an english word and Jesus spoke aramaic so what did Jesus call God? They always stare at me blankly and then say something like well, I speak english, So I ask , well then, who changed God's name? and who gave them that authority?
Of course if you don't beleive in scripture this example is irrelevent to you.
Just a thought.
Oh, and explain the scapegoat on the couch statement...that one slipped by me.
Any human word of any origin cant label God, so i would agree diffrent reasons for surre !!!
With the way things in US pop culture have been rolling on since 9/11, being in touch with God has been more of a cool thing to do.
I know this doesn’t apply to all people of faith, but too many people abuse their own faith in God when things don’t go right for them. Weak people abuse this the most, when something difficult comes their way it’s the fault of "Gods Plan" ... when they could take responsibility for their bad actions or decide to view things with a stronger sense control then go on to grow and learn from them.
Some one said to me the other day “A Jewish carpenter is my boss” to be a smart ass I came back with “Jesus is your scapegoat, take some responsibility for yourself”
The “scapegoat on the couch” was just a play on the elephant in the living room that is being ignored.
What is a television apparatus to man, who has only to shut his eyes to see the most inaccessible regions of the seen and the never seen, who has only to imagine in order to pierce through walls and cause all the planetary Baghdads of his dreams to rise from the dust.
Originally posted by Dawood@Aug 8 2005, 08:06 PM Who is God? because God is an english word and Jesus spoke aramaic so what did Jesus call God?
'Dad'?
short answer: 'Yaweh'
long answer:
The most important of God's Names is the four-letter Name represented by the Hebrew letters Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh (YHVH). It is often referred to as the Ineffable Name, the Unutterable Name or the Distinctive Name. Linguistically, it is related to the Hebrew root Heh-Yod-Heh (to be), and reflects the fact that God's existence is eternal. In scripture, this Name is used when discussing God's relation with human beings, and when emphasizing his qualities of lovingkindness and mercy. It is frequently shortened to Yah (Yod-Heh), Yahu or Yeho (Yod-Heh-Vav), especially when used in combination with names or phrases, as in Yehoshua (Joshua, meaning "the Lord is my Salvation"), Eliyahu (Elijah, meaning "my God is the Lord"), and Halleluyah ("praise the Lord"). source
Even the Rastas with their (very) loose ties to Judean roots refer to God as Jah.
I'm Sure somewhere there is a tie between 'Yahweh' and 'Allah'.
(by 'tie' I mean a linguistic link between different dialects)
Originally posted by RumPuncher+Aug 9 2005, 12:20 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RumPuncher - Aug 9 2005, 12:20 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dawood@Aug 8 2005, 08:06 PM Who is God? because God is an english word and Jesus spoke aramaic so what did Jesus call God?
'Dad'?
short answer: 'Yaweh'
long answer:
The most important of God's Names is the four-letter Name represented by the Hebrew letters Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh (YHVH). It is often referred to as the Ineffable Name, the Unutterable Name or the Distinctive Name. Linguistically, it is related to the Hebrew root Heh-Yod-Heh (to be), and reflects the fact that God's existence is eternal. In scripture, this Name is used when discussing God's relation with human beings, and when emphasizing his qualities of lovingkindness and mercy. It is frequently shortened to Yah (Yod-Heh), Yahu or Yeho (Yod-Heh-Vav), especially when used in combination with names or phrases, as in Yehoshua (Joshua, meaning "the Lord is my Salvation"), Eliyahu (Elijah, meaning "my God is the Lord"), and Halleluyah ("praise the Lord"). source
Even the Rastas with their (very) loose ties to Judean roots refer to God as Jah.
I'm Sure somewhere there is a tie between 'Yahweh' and 'Allah'.
(by 'tie' I mean a linguistic link between different dialects)
please believe the hammock makes me closer to God.
(not in a mid 90's NIN kind of way either)
* As far as the WWJCD (What would Jesus call Dad?) thing....
I might be mistaken here, as the info is far from clear,
but didn't Jesus live the first 30 years of his life oblivious
to the fact that he was the son of God? I could be wrong there
but chances are he would have just called 'God' whatever the
the other followers of the Abrahamic monotheistic religion would
have called him. That's why I figured the ancient Hebrew term
for God (Yaweh etc.) would make the most sence.
--------------------------------
Here's another thing to ponder:
When you look at the outfits (habits) of modern day religions,
I feel bad for the Christians. Looks at the diversity of clothing
you see in Jerusalem. The Hebrews have a very traditional outfit,
as do the muslims, and so to the Orthodox and Coptic Christans,
but the average Evangelical American looks like a WalMart shopper.
I know God doesn't care how you dress, but maybe showing some
class wouldn't hurt the overall image of your religious community.
But then again.... find me an evangelical who really cares about other religions.
I swear they're just as bad as Dawood. (haha... just making sure you were reading this)
Originally posted by El Mamerro@Aug 8 2005, 08:06 PM Standing back and realizing the wrong we do is an easy thing to do as an individual, and a nearly impossible thing to do as a population.
This is a very good point which is touched upon in The Symbiotic Man. There is actually a subchapter titled "Humanity: Individual Genius, Collective Idiocy". He calls ants individual idiots and collective geniuses, and humans individual geniuses and collective idiots. Fortunately this chapter is followed by one titled "Participatory Democracy and Social Feedback". Hope is still alive, lol. The greater interconnectedness of our world is making more and more real time feedback loops possible, so hopefully we will begin to act more intelligently as groups.
This "self-assembly" of human groups is something I have noticed too. Hakim Bey says that when the Soviet Union fell, Anarchy became the opposition by default. (Of course many things could fall under "anarchy".) He states that the first major example of this with the Zapatista uprising. When they started defending their homeland against the Mexican state, the Zapatistas found solidarity all over the world. All of a sudden we saw mass movements of solidarity for many causes all over the world. Protests against globalization found themselves as a patchwork of citizens from diverse backgrounds, all united for the same cause (anarchy being used as a catch all phrase). Just as people as extreme as Al Queda can find sometimes even widespread support among muslims from across the globe when addressing the grievances of the Palestinians, or the invasion of Lebanon by Israel, or for example the sanctions on Iraq that starved millions of children. These are grievances that all muslims have shared, regardless of nationality, or religious sect.
The world is a lot smaller thanks to technology. But still there are many barriers to overcome. The power and influence of the establishment will wane over time and we will become a pure democracy.... but these barriers, such as language, are still divisive. Not only does the alliance of the US and the UK in Iraq make it look like an Anglo-Saxon invasion, but it also helps exemplify the language barrier. I'm sure there are people on this site that can tell you that the media in Europe (and even the UK to an extent) is vastly different than the media here in the US. There they actually cover the deaths of innocent civilians, whereas here, we have hardly at all touched on the matter. We even stopped counting civilian casualties. I knew we were in trouble then. This causes more division. Even to the point of a potential "clash of civilizations". We cannot act as if our lives are more valuble than theirs and expect them to cooperate with us. Also our insistence of a war of "good vs evil" and blaming the violence on their way of life, these are also things to cause division... which may be what the Bush administration wants but this old colonial tactic of divide and conquer doesn't work so well in the modern world. Sure you can keep half the population of this country blind for a while... it's just too damn hard to keep secrets now.
This administration seems to want a clash of civilizations, and while it was Samuel Huntington who has recently popularized this idea, but this idea has been kicked around by Princeton historian Bernard Lewis long before Huntingtons book came out. Lewis was brought out of retirement for this war on terror to serve as a consultant on the Middle East for the US government (Information courtesy of "Bin Laden, Islam, and America's New 'War on Terrorism'" by As 'ad AbuKhalil). Scary. There are actually people who believe that Islam is incompatible with democracy now, even though the most populated muslim state in the world (Indonesia) is democratic. So obviously propaganda still has its functions, but it is weakening.
Whoa this is a huge digression from discussion of God. My apologies. Perhaps by learning to live with our fellow man we can grow closer to God.
"The TSOG stalketh the land and the serfs bow and worship it. It stealeth property, it burneth neighborhoods, it foully killeth all opposition. Ye think it only doth its violence to black people, or Hispanics, or kooks with odd religions, but its hand is at your own throat even now. TSOG fthagn! What--are ye stupid, or something?"
--Abdul Alhazred, The TSOGonomicon
Originally posted by RumPuncher+Aug 9 2005, 04:20 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RumPuncher - Aug 9 2005, 04:20 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dawood@Aug 8 2005, 08:06 PM Who is God? because God is an english word and Jesus spoke aramaic so what did Jesus call God?
'Dad'?
short answer: 'Yaweh'
long answer:
The most important of God's Names is the four-letter Name represented by the Hebrew letters Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh (YHVH). It is often referred to as the Ineffable Name, the Unutterable Name or the Distinctive Name. Linguistically, it is related to the Hebrew root Heh-Yod-Heh (to be), and reflects the fact that God's existence is eternal. In scripture, this Name is used when discussing God's relation with human beings, and when emphasizing his qualities of lovingkindness and mercy. It is frequently shortened to Yah (Yod-Heh), Yahu or Yeho (Yod-Heh-Vav), especially when used in combination with names or phrases, as in Yehoshua (Joshua, meaning "the Lord is my Salvation"), Eliyahu (Elijah, meaning "my God is the Lord"), and Halleluyah ("praise the Lord"). source
Even the Rastas with their (very) loose ties to Judean roots refer to God as Jah.
I'm Sure somewhere there is a tie between 'Yahweh' and 'Allah'.
(by 'tie' I mean a linguistic link between different dialects)
You said that Jesus spoke aramaic and then said that He called God Yahweh (a hebrew word) Jesus didn't speak hebrew, He spoke Aramaic ( the closest thing to Arabic) and Allah is an Arabic word meaning loosely "the God" . The word elah in arabic means God but when you add the suffix "A" to a word in arabic , It makes that thing singular and unique. Also grammatically , If one were to try to pluralize the word Allah , It wouldnt work. Therefore indicating the Oneness and Uniqueness of God (Allah) When I say unique, I mean Unique in all aspects. And God can never be unique if he IS everything, because everything is everything and God is seperate and distinct from all of that. Also , Jesus was not God, He was a prophet and a messenger. Does God Die?
"if you don't busy your self with the truth, your self will busy you with the lies" -Ibn Al Qayyum
Originally posted by RumPuncher@Aug 9 2005, 07:01 PM But then again.... find me an evangelical who really cares about other religions.
I swear they're just as bad as Dawood. (haha... just making sure you were reading this)
Originally posted by ERIZENO@Aug 9 2005, 04:07 PM
With the way things in US pop culture have been rolling on since 9/11, being in touch with God has been more of a cool thing to do.
I know this doesn’t apply to all people of faith, but too many people abuse their own faith in God when things don’t go right for them. Weak people abuse this the most, when something difficult comes their way it’s the fault of "Gods Plan" ... when they could take responsibility for their bad actions or decide to view things with a stronger sense control then go on to grow and learn from them.
Some one said to me the other day “A Jewish carpenter is my boss” to be a smart ass I came back with “Jesus is your scapegoat, take some responsibility for yourself”
The “scapegoat on the couch” was just a play on the elephant in the living room that is being ignored.
Yeah, I agree with you about that, too many people try to blame "God's plan" on things that go wrong. But I beleive that whatever good comes to you it is from God and whatever bad comes to you it is from what our own hands have put forth, (meaning we reep what we sow.) Hard times are a blessing too (even if we don't see it that way during the hard times) But how could we appreciate good times if we never experienced bad ones? Also hardship makes us more resilient and wiser and it is sometimes helpful in putting us back on the right track.
"if you don't busy your self with the truth, your self will busy you with the lies" -Ibn Al Qayyum
Originally posted by Stereotype V.001@Aug 9 2005, 05:58 AM Why is it that people are only offended that "Dawood" is trying to stuff his religious views down everyones' throats here, yet he has been doing the same with almost every other post he has made with very little complaints?
And, to add to the actual topic at hand, religion becomes flawed when using man as a intermediary, who is inherently flawed (ie organized religion). This brings along literal interpretations with it, that have resulted in the deaths of countless people and decimation of various native people's cultures in the name of "God." Even today, it's a major recruiting tool for getting people to blow themselves up.
I agree with what alot of people have said on here, God is everything around us. Even doo doo.
Stereotype, why is it that when someone is "quote unquote" religious. You accuse them of stuffing their religion down your throat , but when I "as a "religious" person" am Bombarded by a non religious Ideology
Somehow nobody mentions that you are stuffing your non religious ideology down MY throat.
So to bring us all back to reality, this is a discussion, not me trying to convert you stereotype. I enjoy talking about God (as you probably guessed by now), thats why I started this thread. To discuss God, If you don't want to be a muslim, thats fine, It's your business, But I think I have the right to talk about God in a thread about The creator of the heavens and earth, don't you think? Everyone complained about me posting about God in other threads, ok so , I started this one and since I started this thread it is the only one in crossfire jumping....kinda ironic huh? Anyway, I like all the activity, It's a good sign that people are thinking about God and not just trying to get crunked up all day er'y day.
As far as god being everywhere....lets come to an Agreement on this ...that none has the right to worshipped except the One true God and................ that God IS indeed everywhere, In his knowledge and sight and hearing and encompassing everything with his ability and his will. Also, does anyone beleive that God is the creator? Do we beleive that God is the greatest? When I say greatest , I mean greatest in size , knowledge, abilities, etc. over all of his creation.
Now if God were IN his creation physically, wouldn't that be limiting his greatness a bit? I mean are we trying to put limits on God by fitting him into our small universe? God is greater than that.
he is with us and encompasses us, with his knowledge, sight, hearing and ability, but would I say that he sees the way we see or hears the way we hear , NO WAY, Why? If God were truly unique? then how could our seeing and hearing be like his seeing and hearing? And if God were just poop and some other decomposing stuff, then what makes him such a great God?
lets give God his props people?
"if you don't busy your self with the truth, your self will busy you with the lies" -Ibn Al Qayyum
So, wait, if God CAN'T be in his creation, wouldn't THAT be a limit?
You still haven't addressed the issue of how decomposing and fecal material, two things that are perfectly good and beneficial to the world, are somehow "imperfect". You're ascribing God a value of perfection based on your limited human perception of the world, which contradicts basically everything you're saying. Because YOU consider something imperfect because it smells funny or looks weird does not make it so.
The principle of computational equivalence suggests that every single process that occurs in the universe can be simulated and mapped perfectly through computation (using binary code). If there was a computer large enough and powerful enough to simulate the entire universe, there would be absolutely no difference whatsoever between our real universe and the simulated one, the two would be perfectly interchangeable.
His (Frank Tipler) argument runs roughly as follows: As the universe collapses upon itself in the last minutes of time, the final space-time singularity creates (just once) infinite energy and computing capacity. In other words, as the giant universal computer keeps shrinking in size, its power increases to the point at which it can simulate precisely the entire historical universe, past and present and possible. He calls this state the Omega Point. It is a computational space that can resurrect "from the dead" all the minds and bodies that have ever lived. The weird thing is that Tipler was an atheist when he developed this theory and discounted as mere "coincidence" the parallels between his ideas and the Christian doctrine of Heavenly Resurrection. Since then, he says, science has convinced him that the two may be identical.
Originally posted by El Mamerro@Aug 10 2005, 02:27 AM So, wait, if God CAN'T be in his creation, wouldn't THAT be a limit?
You still haven't addressed the issue of how decomposing and fecal material, two things that are perfectly good and beneficial to the world, are somehow "imperfect". You're ascribing God a value of perfection based on your limited human perception of the world, which contradicts basically everything you're saying. Because YOU consider something imperfect because it smells funny or looks weird does not make it so.
The creation is limited, God Is limitless. So to attempt to squeeze God into his creation would be an ateempt to lower God's majesty. There is nothing that God is not capable of , except that God does not do things that do not befit his majesty.
And as far as decomposing fecal material, yes it is perfectly beneficial as it relates to the earth and growth and insects but do you pray to a pile of crap? If you do , I feel bad for you and seek refuge in the most high, creator of everything that exists from whatever hit your brain.
"if you don't busy your self with the truth, your self will busy you with the lies" -Ibn Al Qayyum
The point that I am trying to drive home is that EVERY single belief system on the face of this earth offers worship to something from the creation (like rats and men and "everything" and cows and statues and trees and whatever else people ascribe Godliness to) EXCEPT Islam.
There is no religion or beleif system or way of life or whatever you want to call it that singles out worship for God alone , EXCEPT ISLAM , If someone wants to tell me otherwise , I will gladly show you how they are not worshipping
the true God and how what they are worshipping is a created thing and not a creator.
Sorry to be so blunt and "unforgiving" but It seems like it would be obvious to most people that if someone beleives that God is a Cow and runs after it picking up the blessed cow dung wiping it on his face for blessings , then this person has lost his mind. Am I the Idiot here?
"if you don't busy your self with the truth, your self will busy you with the lies" -Ibn Al Qayyum
I believed in god when I was younger. I went to church for the
better half of my juvenile career. Even after my parents stopped
going I kept going by myself. After awhile someone or
something made me step back for a second and take a look at
religion. I realized I never had actually analyzed my thoughts
on god, Catholicism and other religions. I noticed that I have
just been blindly following something and I've never really
questioned it. I started noticing flaws. At first I wrote them off
as human error while still following the religion. Then I just kept
questioning it. over and over and over again I would go over
certain aspects and I kept finding more and more flaws. Soon I
decided to believe in god but not to assign myself to a religion
and just live my life as best I could. I decided if that wasn't
good enough for god then that's his bad. (because I'm
awesome company, obviously)... Awhile after that I just
completely slipped out of it. I decided god MIGHT exist, but I
don't believe he does. I will never say he does not exist
because there will never be any proof either way.
i typed a lot more than i wanted to.
edit*** and I think this whole transition period was me just slowly
allowing myself to accept that there is a strong possibility that I will not
be going anywhere after I die.
too much sunshine makes a desert.
.the Bay Area Casual.
I guess when they teach you that God is a man who comes to earth and gets beat up and spit on by Jews and then tacked on a post and died and came back to life so that we can eat candy and paint eggs , thats what happens. Doubt and eventually total rejection.
Then of course they make their holy men saints after they die and tell you to pray to them because they are chillin with God and can put you down with the holy team if you pray to the saints. (nothing against catholics)
Just another form of Idol worship.
And for me , the proof of the existance of God is (among many things) the orderliness of our universe, even something as simple as the mechanism that we can an eyeball. How can that be without a creator? There is not a camera that exists with all of our technology that can focus on something faster than our own eyes. Imagine the complexity of our universe and all of it's components and how the orbits are perfectly aligned and designed. How did this happen without a super designer? We cant even create the wing of a fly from nothing, nevermind all of what is around us....How could there not be a creator?
"if you don't busy your self with the truth, your self will busy you with the lies" -Ibn Al Qayyum
08-08-2005, 11:34 PM
ha ha, So lets discuss, If you have something to say , just say it. You don't need my approval to post here. Don't blame me for your lack of argument.
