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Re: Food stamps, Feeding America's debt. -
07-07-2012, 08:11 AM
I wanted to add to your point but im on an iphone and the wpm im able to squeeze out is frustraing to say the least. The youtube link i posted is by far the most complete information ive found on the farm bill. That includes the books ive so far looked through. That isnt to discredit reading AFTER watching he video, just that i cant recommend a book that makes a rational argument for or against the farm bill at this time. Most go into americas religious sects' duty to help the poor through irrational money wasing. But if you dont have time to listen to a discussion on a subject that explains why fruits and vegetables are so expensive compared to grains and fast food and why our entire food culture is a politically contrived mess, and why a bunch of bananas, a gallon of milk, and a loaf of bread just cost me $15, ill make a few points grounded in the video.
Obesity in this country is directly tied into our eating habits, which are tied into what Is on sale, which is tied to government subsidies for particular crops, which is tied to lobbiests. To the price we pay at the register is covering litigation costs for farmer coalitions. Its covering government mandated overgrowing. Its covering the rising cost of food stamps.
The foodstamp program originated in the 60s when there were actually starving people in america. That doesnt exist today and in fact obesity and foodstamps are connected.
Ask yourself too why food stamps are even in the farm bill. Its because without food stamps nobody would vote fo the billions of dollars in subsidities awarded to farmersand food companies. The whole billion word bill is completely and utterly political and written in a way only decipherable by corporate lobbiests.
jesus lives elvis saves
Last edited by Soup forgot his password : 07-07-2012 at 08:21 AM.
Reason: Co
Re: Food stamps, Feeding America's debt. -
07-07-2012, 08:41 AM
Also lets not forget ethanol. Ethanol is a corn based additive to our pumpgas that is government mandated to be mixed at a certain percentage with petroleum, creating a government made bubble for
Corn. Its not only a contributor to high gas prices (opec is still 90% of the reason) buts also the reason food prices are going up world wide and adding to world hunger.
a bunch of bananas, a gallon of milk, and a loaf of bread just cost me $15,
what? See when it comes to where I live which is NY, i don't really buy the argument that fast food and junk food is cheaper than produce. because around here it for sure isn't. i mean for example bananas at the typical grocery store around here are 49cents a pound, milk is 1.99 a gallon and whole grain bread about 2.50. all the junk food in stores is typically more expensive than produce. you can pay 2.50 for a bag of chips or a buck for a bag of baby carrots. There is a price rite down the street from me that i have absolutely no idea how they make money on their produce. it's practically half the cost of any other normal grocery store around here, and it's not even garbage GMO produce, a lot of it is US grown and some of it is organic. But we also have a lot of farmer's markets around here, one of which voted top in the country and it's dirt cheap home grown produce mostly.
the other day i bought a 2lb bag of cherries, 4 pears, 3 apples, two heads of kale, 3 green peppers and two cucumbers and paid 13 bucks and some change. that's a cheap grocery bill for food that doesn't kill you. and typically at that price rite all i see is food stamp cards being used, and people buying tons of meat and junk food with them. makes me feel like a fuckin sucker using real money to buy food, but that's the price to pay for having integrity i guess.
i'll stop going on my semi off topic tangents now..
In the East Bay, Calif. bananas are ON SALE for 75 cents a pound, bread at its cheapest is $3, usually around twice that. Milk is $5 a gallon at its cheapest. This isnt wholefoods either. Forgot I bought a twix bar too and bam, $15.
None of this makes sense to me because (in theory at least) we're a totally self sustainable state. We grow enough produce and raise enough cattle so you'd think that the price of gas and subsidized goods from other states wouldnt factor in so much. So go figure.
Also the thing about grains and fast foods being cheaper that fruits and vegetables is simple; They're subsidized. Fruits and vegetables don't have a single subsidy included in the farm bill. Grains and meat are highly subsidized, so between that, farmers being forced by the government to, "get big or get out" by requiring minimum harvest sizes and constant upgrades, and all the meat in this country being sold to only four companies farmers are forced to sell for the price they can get. Together this creates a market where anything made of meat and grains are going to be more affordable to consumers than vegetables and fruits. For health reasons this is a problem because nutritionists say should account for half of every american's plate, and at a price that's more expensive than it has to be.
jesus lives elvis saves
Last edited by Soup forgot his password : 07-07-2012 at 09:20 PM.
Oh, its felt in SF. Keep in mind that the minimum wage was $10 in 1968 after adjustment for inflation. Rent was cheaper, gas was cheaper, and food was cheaper then too.
As a hard working blue coller baller who ends up paying a shit ton of taxes, I don't mind food stamps one bit.
Out of all the bullshit we waste tax money, the programs focused on keeping people fed is the least of my worries.
No system/program like this will be perfect so I'm sure there are some abuses or imperfections.
For the most part I think this is the best way we can keep the most people here fed realistically.
Re: Food stamps, Feeding America's debt. -
07-11-2012, 01:00 AM
i see eye to eye with mercer on this.
there will always be people who abuse the system, its human nature. rich people abused the system and thats how we ended up with the housing bubble and the subsequent international recession. poor people abuse the system and get $150 a month. which do you think im angrier about?
Re: Food stamps, Feeding America's debt. -
07-11-2012, 02:37 AM
I'm shaking my head at you people.
Its like you'd throw a bake sale for Nixon if he promised to donate less than 1% to poor people. That's what you're doing, except it's a bill made by agriculture lobbyists who promise to give a percentage towards food stamps while taking nearly a trillion dollars for themselves and jacking up the price of food so you need the food stamps to begin with.
Food stamps shouldnt be in the farm bill to begin with. Food stamp programs shouldn't be designed by the same people who profit off the rising price of food.
jesus lives elvis saves
Last edited by Soup forgot his password : 07-11-2012 at 02:56 AM.
i've been on food stamps, and recently too. i won't say that some people aren't abusing the system, but their are still plenty of people out there that need them and need them desperately. the food stamps mean for someone who is truely struggling is a little bit less you have to stress over when you are already at the point of not knowing how you are gonna pay the rent or put gas in your car etc. and on the vurge of homelessness. alot of people might not be "starving" as some of you put it, but that does not equate to eating good either. if you are eating ramen noodles for breakfast lunch and dinner every day for years on end then yeah, you might be fed but that isn't healthy for you. thats how i grew up, ramen and cereal every day. thats no way to fucking live.
it just seems like whenever they need to cut spending in washington the first place they go for is the people who are in the most need. i want to see some of these people who are proponents of welfare and SNAP's etc. make it on min wage or less in a city like new york or chicago or la or dc etc. they couldn't do it. people work 3 jobs just to live in the gutter while these people live lovely and don't have to deal with that shit. they're cut off from it. give them a month or two of that lifestyle with no help and see what they think then.
yeah i see you niggas mean muggin on them po'ches,
unload that thang watch em scatter like roaches.
xXx Codeine connoisseur cup muddy like a sewer xXx
For everyone else, no matter how you slice it, food stamps do more to raise the price of food than lower it. Its an agriculture subsidy in a bill with a bunch of other agriculture subsidies that works just like an agriculture subsidity, except people don't understand how it works.
Think about it. You dont have a problem using food stamps because it's not your money. If it was money you earned it would hurt more when it comes time to spend it. Its a fact that people spend money they earn better than money they're given. And even though the money is coming out of my pocket, because the government gave it to you, it never occurs to you to pay it back.
I'm not blaming you. This is how the system is designed. This is 100% the system's fault.
Now the agriculture industry is getting the same kind of deal. They're getting a trillion dollars in money from the "government" every year. Do you think they're spending that money wisely? Fuck no. They didnt earn it. This also means that food companies don't care how much produce they sell because they get money from food stamps. Same with people. If the government is giving you money you dont really need to work as much. If the goernment gives a food company money it doesnt really feel like lowering the price of apples, especially when the high price of apples is guaranteed to sell because poor people have food stamps.
What would happen if you get rid of food stamps? The high price of apples wouldnt be affordable to tens of millions of people that were once on food stamps. That's tens of millions of apples that wouldnt sell. The apple companies would be forced to lower their prices of apples. Maybe they would produce more apples to recover costs. Maybe they'd start producing less apples and reducing farm sizes, which would open up land to new entrepreneurs to grow and sell and compete in the marketplace.
Think about why people dont grow their own food like Mr. Incognito recommended. It's because they don't have. They have food stamps, but what would be more ideal, people growing their own food? Or people continuing to spend other people's money? Which one sounds more sustainable?
Not to get religious but there are no guarantees in life, and subsidies are a guarantee. They guarantee that tomorrow you'll be able to afford apples, but how is that working out? Not that great, huh? Subsidies are a disturbance in the natural eb and flow. They hinder change and evolution, because they try to duct tape a broken system back together.
jesus lives elvis saves
Last edited by Soup forgot his password : 07-17-2012 at 02:58 AM.
The US is not exactly known for progressive/logical/compassionate social infrastructure. In fact, we've been way behind the curve in this respect for decades.
I'm not advocating a welfare state, but if you are going to make it impossible for a rather large segment of society to achieve the American Dream by denying them the ability to make a living or the potential to own property they can farm, they very well may feel some sense of entitlement to at least a subsistence level existence. It's not rocket science.
I think the whole system is rotten, but I don't have any ideas on how to fix it that don't involve pissing someone off. You folks can take it from there.
“Your legs are as skinny as those table legs,” he said. “Then go fuck the table,” she replied.
In the East Bay, Calif. bananas are ON SALE for 75 cents a pound, bread at its cheapest is $3, usually around twice that. Milk is $5 a gallon at its cheapest. This isnt wholefoods either. Forgot I bought a twix bar too and bam, $15.
None of this makes sense to me because (in theory at least) we're a totally self sustainable state. We grow enough produce and raise enough cattle so you'd think that the price of gas and subsidized goods from other states wouldnt factor in so much. So go figure.
Sir, you're spending too much on groceries! Some friendly advice, if I may . Milk is 3$ and bread is 2$ at safeway right now. Bananas are 19 cents a piece at trader joes the last time I went, 50 cents/LB or so? Hope this helps.
call me crazy, but i think basic living essentials should be given and not earned. 20 inch rims should be earned. food should be provided.
This allowed me to draw my own conclusions that a writer, particularly a hardcore, experienced one, is more likely to be an intelligent male from a single parent family who didn’t do well academically, is not involved in sports or extracurricular activities and has antisocial and illegal behaviour.
Re: Food stamps, Feeding America's debt. -
07-07-2012, 08:11 AM
