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George Washington, Founding Father -
08-28-2006, 04:01 AM
I read a Gore Vidal essay about George Washington. I'll spare you all the text, but Wowee. Turns out our country was based on the rights for the rich people to own the poor. This hasn't been a fall from grace, it's been 200+ years (40+ white male presidents )of wallowing in the muck of corporate interests.
Re: George Washington, Founding Father -
08-28-2006, 04:37 AM
Yeah, George Washington was so loaded and greedy he had to borrow money for the train ride to his own inauguration and declined to accept any salary as president. So power hungry he stopped a rebellion that would have made him king, and later refused to serve more than two terms. Darn him! Darn him to heck!
Last edited by Stereotype V.0002 : 08-28-2006 at 04:38 AM.
Yeah, George Washington was so loaded and greedy he had to borrow money for the train ride to his own inauguration and declined to accept any salary as president. So power hungry he stopped a rebellion that would have made him king, and later refused to serve more than two terms. Darn him! Darn him to heck!
Yeah, it must've been rough having an estate like Mount Vernon. Poor guy. How many slaves did he own again? Sorry, I tend to lose count.
Also, how was a rich, land hungry nobody from Virginia going to be the next king? King of England? WTF?
Re: George Washington, Founding Father -
08-28-2006, 10:52 AM
i think stereo might of been talking about the fact that many people wanted him to be the king of 'these united states' after the war. the federalist party of which washington was somewhat associated with, wanted to establish, essentially a limited monarchy in the newly formed country. thank God the republican voice was heard. washington wanted nothing of the sort however. its sort of funny ol' vidal brought up this 'rich and corporate vs the poor' thing, because the early generation of americans, formed greatest republic in the history of the world to protect the individual and guarantee them self government. the exception of course being, the issue of slavery.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
the federalist party of which washington was somewhat associated with, wanted to establish, essentially a limited monarchy in the newly formed country
Exactly, this and he put down a rebellion that offered him the position of king (I believe), it was basically his for the taking yet he wasn't even happy about serving a second term. These are the points Vidal, Zinn, and Chomsky always leave out of their essays, and the readers rarely catch on anyways.
And the Mount Vernon estate (which is nothing compared to what he could have had) is your proof he is land hungry? Can you name a single world leader, ever, that didn't own some sort of property? The slavery issue is also pretty weak. In a few hundred years you think people won't be disgusted that we wear clothes made by slave labor, we bitch about foreign entanglements while the oil demand is as high as ever, we pass homeless people everyday and MAYBE throw them spare change, etc etc?
Re: George Washington, Founding Father -
08-28-2006, 11:17 PM
It's true, we use so much product made by slave labor or near-slave conditions. I have a t-shirt that was made in El Salvador with an eagle holding a flag and a banner that says "Honor, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Freedom", couldn't even get the slogan right. It cost 5 bucks at Target, post-4th of July and the funny part is that I didn't buy it for "irony", I just like the design and my country. I joke about how the red is actually the blood of the 7 year-old that cut off his finger while stitching it.
"Our operational world is an apathetic one, indifferent to itself, dispassionate and deadly boring. And it is useless to be dispassionate in a passionless world. Being carefree in a disinvested world has no meaning. That is how we became orphans."
-Jean Baudrillard
Re: George Washington, Founding Father -
08-28-2006, 11:52 PM
this slave labor business is rather funny to me.
i might be wrong, but last time i checked, no one was putting guns to peoples heads making them work in those conditions. they work voluntarily. this might not be in all cases everywhere, but the vast majority.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
this slave labor business is rather funny to me.
i might be wrong, but last time i checked, no one was putting guns to peoples heads making them work in those conditions. they work voluntarily. this might not be in all cases everywhere, but the vast majority.
my god man take your tophat off. socio economic factors are just as forceful in making people work for complete shit in a cesspit as a gun to the head is (either way youre gonna die if you dont do it)
you know this too so dotn argue for the sake of it
my god man take your tophat off. socio economic factors are just as forceful in making people work for complete shit in a cesspit as a gun to the head is (either way youre gonna die if you dont do it)
you know this too so dotn argue for the sake of it
seems to me if someone is living in a cesspit, working would help bring you out of the cesspit. 'slave labor' isnt always 'slave' labor. alot of people who work for low wages do so voluntarily. which is why you have people talking about illegal mexicans working as 'slave labor.' there is nothing slave about it. they are breaking US sovereignty rules by entering our country, risking prosecution, to work in america for low wages because it is beneficial to them. if anyone is voluntarily working it must be beneficial to them, otherwise they wouldnt agree to the exchange. socio economic factors do not 'count' as being coercive or immoral in the same way another person putting a gun to someone's head is and forcing them to work.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
Re: George Washington, Founding Father -
08-29-2006, 04:47 PM
There is a huge tie between human trafficking and sweatshops, but the case in Samoa started off with voluntarily working… and it ended up with the workers being held against their will with no wages and being maimed if not killed when they didn’t work fast enough. Not very beneficial for them. And even in the sweatshops that actually pay wages, it’s going to be barely enough to get by in a third world country nevermind get people out of the cesspit.
Re: George Washington, Founding Father -
08-29-2006, 04:54 PM
Illegal immigration is a whole different subject, if they are making less than minimum it is generally still much more than a sweatshop worker would make. They are also able to quit or leave the jobs when they want as well…but human trafficking still goes on here. http://www.gvnet.com/humantrafficking/USA.htm There was a big story on the east coast a week ago about a human trafficking/sex slavery ring being broken up that mainly consisted of Korean girls who thought they were getting legit jobs.
Re: George Washington, Founding Father -
08-30-2006, 10:40 PM
"Angel of death", I guess from your angle the arguement could be made that the slaves weren't really slaves because they were getting "payed" with food and shelter and if they did really well they get the added bonus of not being whipped, hung or shot. And maybe they can climb the corporate ladder to become a house nigger?
Yeah... that sounds like something you'd say.
Last edited by SKREENNAME : 08-30-2006 at 10:41 PM.
Re: George Washington, Founding Father -
08-31-2006, 10:49 AM
""Angel of death", I guess from your angle the arguement could be made that the slaves weren't really slaves because they were getting "payed" with food and shelter and if they did really well they get the added bonus of not being whipped, hung or shot. And maybe they can climb the corporate ladder to become a house nigger?"
actually no i wouldnt consider this just. i believe in the non aggression axiom. forcing or coercing someone to do something they dont want to do is immoral and is a violation of property rights.
the problem is the word slave gets thrown around. it is my view that it is not slave labor if there is no coercion involved in making people work. if blacks in new york in the 18th and 19th centuries were not 'owned' by anyone and not forced to work, but were free and wanted to work in a mansion this is totally fine. if a black person in new york in the 18 or 19th century was enslaved, then this is immoral and unjust.
so there is no need to try to turn my view of voluntary exchange and a free market into a slave holding racist view. nice try though.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
George Washington, Founding Father -
08-28-2006, 04:01 AM
