[complex]

If the U.S. did turn to a socialistic country. Would you really be all that mad. Enthusiastic? How would your personal life change?

Can't say mine would be much different.

[the radiologist]

Something as little as changing into a socialistic country?

Nahhhhhh, of course it wouldn't bother me one bit. Why would it??????

[complex]

haha i didn't mean to make light of it in that manor, it would of course be an epic change, maybe im slightly in favor and would rather see it happen

[the radiologist]

I'm not trying to put it out like that either. I want you to hear why you would be in favor of that. And what country through history, that was or still is ran by socialism, would you enjoy to live in? And in those factors, which ones are specifically related to socialism. I just never heard anybody say they think socialism is a good idea.

I know I haven't been around a wide array of people, but damn...just never heard it.

[Decyferon]

Living in a western country that has socialist leadership doesn't change much at all, here in the UK we are living under a labour government which has always been a socialist style party and there is no difference to the way it is to live in this country. Money is what drives most govenments these days and business has such a tight hold over finances etc that policy is very hard to change.

I think it wouldn' be so much of a difference in the US maybe everyone will be lucky enough to be able to see a doctor or get treatment at a hospital if it does take on elements of social healthcare, then everyone can get taxed for it and everyone has the benefi f healthcare

[complex]

in retrospect i should have done more research to use better terminology. so people know exactly what i mean. instead of going through every aspect of gov. and dissecting how i feel about it if it were socialistic, im just going to compare it to france. If the U.S. was ran the same as france. How would that be to people?

[the radiologist]

^^^^^Then there would be alot more smelly people and hookers in America.

[lord_casek]

Guns. Lots of guns. All firing in a volley. "The blood of patriots and tyrants" as Jefferson so aptly put it.

Such a change would be very bad for us as a nation.

[Cunt_Eastwood]

Id GTFO or stand next to Casek fixing my bayonet so to speak

[christo-f]

I don't know, Sweden is about as close to socialism a market economy can get and they seem to be doing just fine. Australia is also under a labor government, has a state healthcare system, state school system, state medical benefits system, sliding tax scale, etc. and we're doing pretty good too. France aint exactly a third world country either.

So, what's the problem?

[lord_casek]

Originally Posted by christo-f (View Original Post)

I don't know, Sweden is about as close to socialism a market economy can get and they seem to be doing just fine. Australia is also under a labor government, has a state healthcare system, state school system, state medical benefits system, sliding tax scale, etc. and we're doing pretty good too. France aint exactly a third world country either.

So, what's the problem?

I take it that means it's ok for me to come to your house and tell you that because my walls are gray and my carper is blue, yours needs to be like that.

[Decyferon]

that is a very narrow minded view of socialism casek, what your talking about there is a dictatorship and living under a socialist government is nothing like that. In none of these countries such as Sweden, Australia, France or the UK do the government tell you how to have you house decorated.

As far as my day to day life goes the government doesn't interfere with my life in the way i dress, the things I say, the things I want to buy or sell. I am happy to pay taxes so that all people have access to healthcare and children get a decent education.

I don't see the problem to living under a socialist government. It just seems to me that Americans don't want it because it comes down to their fear of having the guns taken away from them, and I know you will disagree but I don't believe anyone should just have easy access to guns they do more damage than good. OK there are guns in the UK but gun crime is much lower here than in america.

Can i ask you, Do you think it is wrong that taxes go to providing healthcare to all people? why should people suffer because they cannot afford health insurance.

[lord_casek]

Originally Posted by Decyferon (View Original Post)

that is a very narrow minded view of socialism casek, what your talking about there is a dictatorship and living under a socialist government is nothing like that. In none of these countries such as Sweden, Australia, France or the UK do the government tell you how to have you house decorated.

You don't understand. I'm saying that since christo says it's ok for one (or more) countriy (ies) that it's not ok for us. Our country is the most unique in the world. We don't need socialism and we definitely don't want it.

I merely used an analogy.

[Decyferon]

I know what you were getting at I just wanted to question furthre Casek, you know I love these discussions lol

I think there are good elements and bad elements of any type of leadership of a country and while you don't want or need socialism, some aspects of it could benefit America and it's poorest occupants

also I don't agree with your analogy because that isn't what socialism is, your analogy was of a dictatorship, socialism doesn't dictate what the people that live in the country can do

[lord_casek]

Originally Posted by Decyferon (View Original Post)

I know what you were getting at I just wanted to question furthre Casek, you know I love these discussions lol

I think there are good elements and bad elements of any type of leadership of a country and while you don't want or need socialism, some aspects of it could benefit America and it's poorest occupants

also I don't agree with your analogy because that isn't what socialism is, your analogy was of a dictatorship, socialism doesn't dictate what the people that live in the country can do

I wasn't being analogous of socialism, more of what christo was saying. To sum it up, "it works for these countries, so what's your problem with it?".

Know what would benefit us more? Limited terms for politicians (no lifers), policy to keep drug companies from overcharging us for drugs (rest of the world gets a nice break from them...how nice), absolutely no lobbyists (no exceptions), pulling military out of other countries (they're older now, they can fight for themselves), getting back to a gold standard, no illegals allowed. do it like the rest of the honest people who are waiting for approval.

Just a few of those suggestions would take us a long way on the road to getting better and getting our global respect back.

[Decyferon]

I would agree completely with you on every point you made, it would benefit you greatly to pull military out of other countries, it is something I wish the UK would also do

[lord_casek]

Originally Posted by Decyferon (View Original Post)

I would agree completely with you on every point you made, it would benefit you greatly to pull military out of other countries, it is something I wish the UK would also do

The problem with the U.S. and UK getting out is that it doesn't make the war machine money. It loves money.

[Decyferon]

It does love the money and the governments love the fear of constantly telling us of all the bad guys that are out to take away our freedom and way of life, if we weren't fighting these countries how would they instill the fear?

[lord_casek]

Originally Posted by Decyferon (View Original Post)

It does love the money and the governments love the fear of constantly telling us of all the bad guys that are out to take away our freedom and way of life, if we weren't fighting these countries how would they instill the fear?

Ever read a book titled "The Grand Chessboard"?

[Decyferon]

no I haven't who is the author, I will order it in and give it a read if you receommend it, actually I should not be so lazy and just google it lol

[lord_casek]

The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives by Zbigniew Brzezinski

It's paperback and pretty cheap. Give it a read.

[tellurian]

As far as socialism goes Leninism is alot better than Stalinism. It was Stalin that fucked Russia up. But fuck socialism and fuck capitalism. Anarchism is where it's at.

[christo-f]

Originally Posted by lord_casek (View Original Post)

I wasn't being analogous of socialism, more of what christo was saying. To sum it up, "it works for these countries, so what's your problem with it?". I don't understand how your analogy works. You also didn't answer my question. I'm not saying that America should be socialist, that's for the US people to decide. I'm just asking why you wouldn't want it for the US, that's all. I used Sweden, Australia, etc. just as examples of countries that have elements of socialism to show that it doesn't mean dictatorship, a lack of freedom, authoritarianism or a failed economy. So, why do you think stuff like what Sweden has is not suitable for the US?

Know what would benefit us more? Limited terms for politicians (no lifers) Why do you think that? I don't disagree, I just want to know why you think this is important, policy to keep drug companies from overcharging us for drugs agreed, absolutely no lobbyists I know a lot of the cons and they are huge, but I'd still like to hear some of the pros for having lobbyists, if there are any, before I had an opinion on that matter., pulling military out of other countries (they're older now, they can fight for themselves) discussed below, getting back to a gold standard, no illegals allowed. do it like the rest of the honest people who are waiting for approval.

Just a few of those suggestions would take us a long way on the road to getting better and getting our global respect back.

As for removing the military, the standard of life for those in the US would change drastically and the US would lose a massive amount of its security if the US pulled out of all the countries it's in right now. Plus a fairly decent amount of the world would lose stability and the global economy would suffer as well.

The US provides safety and security for the worlds shipping lanes. If Indonesia/China/whoever tried to blockade the Malacca Straits, the US would see to it that it was opened again. IF Iran blocked the Straits of Hormuz, only the US could reopen it again. I've never read the Great Chessboard, but I've read a lot of other stuff by Zbignew. I'd also assume that he mentions off-shore balancing in the book, that's what the US does to stop the rise of another competitor. They destabilise regions like the Middle East, South America and so on. If they didn't you would either have a lot of internal war in the Middle East between countries like KSA and Iran would more than likely triumph and become a regional power. Under Iran's current political culture, I don't think that would be such a great idea. IF the US wasn't in Japan and ROK there would be a massive arms build up by Japan and ROK in reaction to the presence of DPRK. Since 53 there has been relative stability in the region that more than likely would not have been without the US and there would be a destabilising arms race that would result in a victor becoming powerful that could then go on to threaten the US in the future (you can bet Nukes would also be involved in the arms race).

I'm not making any moral judgments here, just trying to flesh out how the strategic situation would change if the US went isolationist. I also do not support a number of things that the US does but when I think about some of the alternatives (such as Russia being a global power, Iran controlling the Middle East and its energy reserves, China controlling the Malacca Straits, etc.) I'd much rather the way it is now. The US isn't perfect but it could be a fucking lot worse than it is with the US military deployed around the world.

[shai]

Originally Posted by tellurian (View Original Post)

Anarchism is where it's at.

Essentially what anarchy comes down to is living really rough and people shooting at each other for reasons good, bad and entirely nonexistent. They want your stuff? You better have a bigger gun and more bullets and good aim because they aren't going to sit down and politely ask you to share your stuff with them. If you want to see anarchy in practice, take a look at Somalia. They're living the life of Riley over there!

So, prove to me that YOU and you alone could live off the land and entirely off the grid (no computer, no cell phone, basically any tech relying on a backbone/infrastructure), and are ready to kill or be killed and then I'll believe you. Until then, unless you're 15 give it a rest until you do some serious reading.

As far as the socialism in the US it's already here. It's just not called "socialism". It's called "bank bailouts" and "saving the auto industry". Did anyone besides legislators get to vote on this shit or was it pushed through for the "common good?"

[russell jones]

Let me state the obvious, that we already have many socialist policies in the U.S. To get more would not be a drastic change, but a natural progression. We are still capitalist though, so don't worry about it.

BTW, socialism and capitalism don't exist, never have, and are outdated concepts. We live in a pragmatic society, and we always have.