Welcome to the THE WRITERS FORUM brought to you by 12ozPROPHET...
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which only gives you limited access to view our discussions, photos and other forum features. By joining THE WRITERS FORUM community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access other member only features. Registration is fast, simple and free, so join THE WRITERS FORUM today and be a part of the largest and longest running graffiti, street arts and popular culture forum online!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
Originally posted by alleniverson I like how you have chosen to speak on behalf of 'the rest of the world'.
Lots of people are for the war, so your statement is inaccuarate.
Pardon my use of sarcasm. I'll refrain from it in future posts.
Quote:
You can not just sit back and not do anything because youre afraid of possible retaliation. Doing that, you will never accomplish anything.
Heres an example..You see some gangbanger and hes by himself at a party talking with your sister. Your sister turns him down for a date and the guy hits her. Do you fight the guy or just not do anything because youre afraid he'll get his boys against you?
Theres not a real clear cut answer I guess. But personally Id fight him and worry about the retaliation later.
In a strange sense, thats kinda what youre talking about concerning the possible war. You think we shouldnt do anything to stop possible nuclear attacks on America and/or other parts of the world simply because other people will 'hate us'. Thats a weak argument and doesnt hold any water.
So, in your completely asinine example, I assume that the gangbanger is Iraq and my sister is .... uhm ... well. The US? Iraq's own people? Daddy Bush? The Twin Towers?
And when did Iraq hit my unascertained sister? 9-11? (no proof of connection). Desert Storm? (this has no relation, since, using your line of reasoning, the US at that point did beat up the gangbanger). Breaking treaties promising the nonproliferation of weapons of mass destruction? (Like I stated earlier, no proof).
Your extended metaphor makes no sense whatsoever.
Furthermore, your unwillingness to look beyond the imminent future ("personally Id fight him and worry about the retaliation later") is our government's central problem when deciding which conflicts in which to involve themselves. The US was supplying Saddam with arms in the 80s in order to battle Iran. Now that the USSR is no more and Iran isn't their puppet, we're the first in line to insist upon Iraq's disarmament.
Quote:
If you dont like the war, dont fight in it. Simple as that.
Done. But, maybe, just maybe, I'd rather those I know not be sent over to die. Perhaps I don't want people I don't even know sent to die.
You failed to address anything I said in my previous post, especially re: the lack of proof of weapons of mass destruction and why Iraq rather than the rest of the Axis of Evil. Say something of substance for once.
Originally posted by alleniverson Actually put your ass on the front line.
Practice what you preach, there, killer.
Are you ready to give your life to protect US oil interests?
The case for war here is so thin that it sets a dangerous precedent. Other countries can invade their long-hated neighbors for weak reasons and cite the US going after Iraq as equally weak. There goes Taiwan, Chechnya and who knows what else.
Originally posted by alleniverson If any of those people had jobs or something productive to do they wouldnt have time to stand around and recreate the 60s with their stupid signs. Why dont you go out and do something? Fuck if you believe that strongly you can go over to Iraq and fight against America. John Walker is someone I respect. Protesting fucks like this, I do not. Actually put your ass on the front line. If youre American, at the very least you could go to another country, you know your tax dollars fund the war, right?
I know its all the rage among alot of you to be anti-whateverthegovernmentisdoing and it makes you seem ultra-smart that you dont 'believe the lies of the media and government', so someone like me who believes differently must be an idiot. Honestly, when is the last time any of you liked something the government did?
Don't assume that because one is against the war, they are therefore against everything the US government does. You can extend anything anyone says to the nth degree, but it doesn't make their initial statement incorrect. Here's a link to help yourself out.
Originally posted by Cracked Ass Practice what you preach, there, killer.
Are you ready to give your life to protect US oil interests?
The case for war here is so thin that it sets a dangerous precedent. Other countries can invade their long-hated neighbors for weak reasons and cite the US going after Iraq as equally weak. There goes Taiwan, Chechnya and who knows what else.
all kidding aside, this issue is so fucked, that its basically a lose-lose situation. i mean, if iraq is or already has developed "weapons of mass destruction" we already know that they hate us. thats what bush and his associates are putting out there, that they are out for our blood when the opportunity presents itself. do you or i KNOW whether or not iraq has these weapons or wants to cause us harm? we all have our opinions on the matter, and everyone is always so quick to jump down peoples throats for what others believe. and then you have all the countries in the middle east that have been watching us and judging our every move. how do they really feel? do they hate us as much as we are lead to believe? you can say that 9/11 was planned by our government, but seriously, if it was uncovered that it was done by our government, what would happen to those that plotted it? would they really risk their asses in such a way? if we sit back and act like iraq isnt up to anything at all, then we run the risk of being attacked. if we attack iraq, we run the risk of being attacked by other countries that didnt like us to begine with (maybe?). who is to say they wouldnt attack us at some point anyway? the reason they dont like us is the society that we live in. where people do as they feel, and dont worry about sin as long as they are happy. face it, our morals have gone straight down the shitter. our country was already headed into the trash can because of the environment we've created for ourselves. and it isnt democrat or republican party to blame. its EVERYONE. this used to be a country founded on morals, but what happened to all that? all that shit has been thrown out the window...and for what? for oil? for political gains? for personal gains? we write on shit all the time, breaking the laws ourselves....stealing along the way....for what reasons? fame? partially. to fuck the system? yea, that too. but are we really helping a cause, or are we just adding to the problem? take a look at hegemony theories.....our country has been on top for too long apparently. we could just try to cut ourselves out of every conflict, but then we run the risk of being attacked for our past. others arent going to forget the past, whether it was our own fault for getting involved or if we had a just reason. if we go out guns blazing, we'll probably lost a good percentage of our population. in my opinion, our time is through. how do we want to go out?
Originally posted by HESHIANDET i respect everyones opinions on this issue, BUT. i WAS anti war before i had to do some serious research on the topic for a debate. so untill you guys (and the millions who are also protesting) hit the books in a serious way, not just some google searches you are playing yourself. straight up. you may not want to hear it, but its true. sad fact is people will die, how many is the question. and YES i have family in the military righ tnow. so yeahhhhhhhhhh
dude, with all due respect..you cant assume all of our knowledge extends on google searches...as well that all those millions are uneducated people that dont know the facts....what are the facts that make it so clear to you?
wishes for your family anyway, people are people..
of course i think there shouldnt be war, but if they do have link with al quaida then i think saddam hussein should be forced to step down or whatever. forgive me if im quite ignorant
ok, fair enough. one question ive always thought is why does the west (mainly the us) just think they can controll and dictate who rules what country. why do they think they have 1st choice?
"You don't fight terrorism with a preventive war," said Tommaso Palladini, 56, who traveled from Milan to Rome to protest with 1 million others. "You fight terrorism by creating more justice in the world."
i dont really care to much about iraq. im selfishly insulated in my infidel american life and can not be affected by the fact that millions of iraqi children are living in poverty and malnutrition and dieing of cancer from depleted uranium left over from the last gulf war.
what really pisses me off is the following,
bush didnt even win the 00 election.
regime change in iraq has been a longstanding goal of republican hawks, WHO ON TV HAVE ADMITTED TAKING OVER IRAQ WAS PLANNED BEFORE BUSH EVEN TOOK POWER.
The september 11 attacks were clearly preventable in anyway you look at it, if federal regulations would have been followed, the jets would have never been able to reach their targets.
our economy is shit while the rich are still getting richer.
bush continues showing complete and utter disrespect and ignorance to the rest of the world while the feds are sending people to prison regardless of the fact that their actions are legal under laws citizens in california voted in.
north korea is able to nuke us on the west coast.
and besides that, iraq couldnt hit us if they wanted to. al quida is not down with irag. and a war in the middle east is all bad.
mother fuckers talking about premptive nuclear strikes.
hmmm..lets use weapons of mass destruction cause hes got weapons of mass destruction.
if they try to take bagdahd, expect a us body count in the thousandsl-cause that mother fucker has used chem. weapons on enemy troops before, as well as his own people. 5000 iranian soldiers killed in one battle.
besides, saddam cant even whup the kurds.
and now they got the patriot act two and shit......
in short, were fucked.
"We Germans in particular have a duty to do everything to ensure that war - above all a war of aggression - never again becomes a legitimate means of policy," shouted Friedrich Schorlemmer
i have to pose this question,
what is goin to take for people to realize that we do not live in a society where everyone is goin to get along? all in all these movements will most likely amount to nothing, moving on their part but in the big picture, semi meaningless, im no war monger, nor a right winger but sometimes theres a reality to thngs, i respect peoples opinions here, this is just a thought,
besides all the underlying subplots of war on iraq (anything from oil, trying to gain pop, bush is retarded) the threat is real, and its sad to think that its goin to take another 9-11 for people to once again feel the same way. I would rather attempt to stop things before they happen again, because the simple matter of fact is people dont like america, their ideals and the people that live there and are willing to harm/kill people for their "cause" now that is my family and friends in the crosshairs, and id rather protect that than let it simply hapen because we can work it out "peacefully" no war is never a good thing, its a tragic reality, warfare has been married to mankind since probably the dawn of time, not too be a dick but we "deal with it"
this was not meant to be a pro bush, pro war fuck everyone post, just kinda another viewpoint on the situation, i appreciate everyones posts here (the thoughtful ones) and this was just another 2 cents to the thought bank.
anyways my prayers are out to all innocents involved.
No offense to all the peaceful protestors but I think at a certain point if want someone to listen to you, you're gonna have to light something on fire. All the protest that I've been to in the US have been peaceful and some of them quite large but none of them had alot of press coverage and not that many people outside of those directly affected knew about them. I'm not for all out anarchy, but I'm not saying I couldn't use some new home furnishings and a nice jacket for those cold nights.
the threat is real because of us foriegn policy. let me spell it out for you, the reason people want to kill americans is because of i s r a e l i actions. we support them completely. they kill people and have settlements illegal under international law.
so if your concerened that the threat is real, how much realer do you think its going to get when we annex an oil rich country and kill a few million of its citizens. in the first gulf war millions of iraqis were killed including 500,000 CHILDREN.
starting a war does deal with the threat, it substantially increases it.
suppose we took the seventy or so billion dollars that is about to be blown on this bullshit war and assisted in repairing war damaged infrastructure in palestine. do you think we would have thousands of militants wanting to kill us if we are building them schools and hospitals, power plants and economic infrastructure.
do you not recall saddams scorched earth policy?
and besides that, you know that with bush their's dick..who's haliburton oil company has bought oil from iraq while iraq was under embargo, so outright, the vice presidents company has been bankrolling iraq until now. just like the taliban.
and to top it all off, WE GAVE THE PSYCHO MOTHER FUCKER THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION TO BEGIN WITH.
starting a war is the absolute worst possible course of action to pursue.
Quote:
Originally posted by yoink i the threat is real, and its sad to think that its goin to take another 9-11 for people to once again feel the same way. I would rather attempt to stop things before they happen again, because the simple matter of fact is people dont like america, their ideals and the people that live there and are willing to harm/kill people for their "cause" now that is my family and friends in the crosshairs, and id rather protect that than let it simply hapen because we can work it out "peacefully" no war is never a good thing, its a tragic reality, warfare has been married to mankind since probably the dawn of time, not too be a dick but we "deal with it"
02-15-2003, 07:16 PM
