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NRA: Put an armed guard in every school, yeah guns!

Discussion in 'News' started by injury, Dec 21, 2012.

  1. RIPS

    RIPS 12oz Veteran Member

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    RIPS - Replied Feb 3, 2013

    RIPS - Rank: 12oz Veteran Member - Messages:
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  2. Walid Jumblat

    Walid Jumblat 12oz Senior Member

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    Walid Jumblat - Replied Feb 3, 2013

    Who's moral values though?

    Morals are a subjective concept and nothing stays the same forever. People always fall in to the easy state of saying 'back in the day...', however usually when you look back things aren't as rosy we tend to believe. Moral values have not been eradicated at all, they've simply changed with the times. I mean how is society, technology, demographics, economics, etc. all supposed to develop while societal values remaining static? It obviously can't and won't happen.

    And again, nothing stays the same anyway. Existence is change, everything moves, everything ages. Nothing stays the same. Well, except for the Bill of Rights, I guess. Everything changes with the time and the BoR stays stuck in the times it was penned, and people who don't understand or accept change want to conserve some of its principles in a sort of aspirational nostalgia.
     
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  3. Realism

    Realism 12oz Veteran Member

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    Realism - Replied Feb 3, 2013

    He's just going to answer your point with some wingnut Youtube link or meme.

    Thread's a mess.
     
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  4. RIPS

    RIPS 12oz Veteran Member

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    RIPS - Replied Feb 3, 2013

    no moral values at all, just some continues liberal conditioning
     
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  5. Mr. Incognito

    Mr. Incognito 12oz Senior Member

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    Mr. Incognito - Replied Feb 4, 2013

    yeah, i get it. it's a complex issue in which guns do play a part, which is why I've said im not really against "universal" background checks, stricter penalties for offenders and higher mental health checks for firearm purchasing.


    so what about my state limiting magazines to 7 rounds from 10? outright banning the sale of AR15 rifles, or similar caliber rifles with certain cosmetic features such as a pistol grip? which does NOTHING to alter the weapon itself besides aesthetically. or having to renew my pistol permit every 5 years, which will require no more than a typical background check, i assume the same used now for when we buy ammunition, but with a large added fee really just used as a revenue maker? are these solutions to the ever so complex problem of people committing mass murder? i doubt it, and apparently vice pres. Biden isn't too sure either:

    http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/...w-gun-controls-likely-wont-end-shootings?lite



    a complex issue with everyone really only going after one thing...
     
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  6. Walid Jumblat

    Walid Jumblat 12oz Senior Member

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    Walid Jumblat - Replied Feb 4, 2013

    Yeah, mag reductions are pointless. I think there will be a lot of examples where the govt takes aim at easy targets. That way they can be seen taking action without taking serious political risks...., and maybe raise some revenue on the side.
     
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  7. Fist 666

    Fist 666 Moderator Crew

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    Fist 666 - Replied Feb 4, 2013

    I completely agree on the mag issue, it solves zero problems.
    I think the working definition of "assault rifle" is pretty much bullshit.

    guns are the easy target, they might also be the easiest target to make a difference in. reinventing our society to give a shit about mental health is going to be insane (pun!) monetarily, culturally, and functionally. There is no quick fix, no change that can happen within one presidential term, no culture shift that can happen quick enough to stop the next bunch of outrageous shootings to happen. politicians will say there is, and will act shocked when a someone who can shoot knocks out a high number with a bunch of low cap mags and a handgun. the NRA will say "told ya so," the media will glorify the shooter and we as a nation will be just as fucked.

    i dunno, its loaded and i don't claim to have a solution.
     
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  8. ILOTSMYBRAIN

    ILOTSMYBRAIN 12oz Elite Member

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    ILOTSMYBRAIN - Replied Feb 4, 2013

    UPS! likes this.
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  9. Fist 666

    Fist 666 Moderator Crew

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    Fist 666 - Replied Feb 4, 2013

    They are at war with criminals, pretty straight forward.
     
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  10. ILOTSMYBRAIN

    ILOTSMYBRAIN 12oz Elite Member

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    ILOTSMYBRAIN - Replied Feb 4, 2013

    So you are now comparing day to day policing to combat in war? Haven't seen anything like that my entire life. Have you ever been to NY?

    And to your points, if a random gun fight were to break out at let's just say...the Ferry, on either side, Staten Island or Manhattan. How would Police walking around with MP-5's and other high powered assault rifles be any different from a regular citizen acting on his own with a hand gun in a high traffic area?
     
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  11. Fist 666

    Fist 666 Moderator Crew

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    Fist 666 - Replied Feb 4, 2013

    no, not day to day policing. though as more and more mass murders happen it becomes more day to day.

    cops don't carry m4s or mp5s on their backs during routine patrols, they keep them in their trunks or armories for use in extreme situations. i don't want to fall into some line of defending cops, because thats just not my stance, but there are frequently situations that merit them being armed with more than a glock 22.
    (i've been to NY, but not spent enough time to feel like i could possibly speak to local norms).

    the ferry scenario is set up for their to be no proper response. if its a crowded, high traffic area then guns aren't the answer period, not for cops or civilians. less than lethal tools come into play in those scenarios. (which i've argued in pretty much all the cop threads are under used).

    i don't have a solid stance on this. I feel that SWAT/special teams are needed and justified in having the arms they do. Just like NRA arguments for arming yourself because police are too slow, sometimes SWAT is equally far behind from regular police arrival. those arms in extreme situations can make the difference.
    which goes back to my continuing concern of police stress shooting standards being way too low and wholly unacceptable.
     
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  12. UPS!

    UPS! 12oz Elite Member

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    UPS! - Replied Feb 4, 2013

    All im saying is personally id rather have a gun knowing alot of other people have guns, than not having a gun and knowing some people have guns, a majority of which would be up to no good.

    We all have some fantasy island shit of how this issue could be solved.
    Lets look at the facts:

    There are already millions of registered guns in the US.
    There are already millions of untraceable guns in the US.

    So do you let the cops go door to door and round up the millions of guns that (most) law
    abiding citizens(hate this term) registered and had for hunting, or self defense of their home and in the wake of that leave a fairly large window of time open for goons already armed to be the only ones other than the Jakes with guns?

    To me, a fair compromise would be just making it harder for psychos & idiots to get guns, and anyone who passes the criteria has to have some sort of training, certification, register the fucking thing and ill even throw the gun control persuasion a bone and agree that we don't need fucking M16's and such on the streets.

    But again I also truly believe that if you give em an inch...the mother fuckers will take a mile.
     
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  13. Fist 666

    Fist 666 Moderator Crew

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    Fist 666 - Replied Feb 4, 2013

    we agree.

    where i get concerned is the classification of 'psychos and idiots' and how we treat mental illness. i made heavy handed jokes about registering all offenders of depression, mpd, bipolar, add, etc when the NRA first said that was the answer. I'm surprised that idea is continuing to gain momentum.

    I fear the government registering every troubled kid, combat vet, and every-sort-of-victim who seeks counseling for an extended period of time with a permanent record that limits his rights more than I fear the encroachment of my rights by making me register and jump through more hoops to obtain my weapons and rounds.

    i'm also worried about hipaa going to the wind because of this.
     
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  14. ILOTSMYBRAIN

    ILOTSMYBRAIN 12oz Elite Member

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    ILOTSMYBRAIN - Replied Feb 5, 2013

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    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  15. Fist 666

    Fist 666 Moderator Crew

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    Fist 666 - Replied Feb 5, 2013

    I click most links posted here, and only dismiss after a couple of things happen: its clear that its dumb or it has alex jones in it.

    Both of those were good videos.
    What that does for the assault rifle concern I don't know, it does show that NY is fucked up and reinforces that I want nothing to do with big-city-living.
     
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